Paul ~ Inventing a new saviour

reply to post by justamomma



I haven't been able to read all of your posts, too late in the day and my brain hurts. I don't pretend to have the vast theological knowledge that many do, but I know this, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and no one comes to Father except through Him.

My family never even went to church when I grew up, but as a child I knew there was a God, and I had an inate knowledge that this man Jesus had changed my world somehow.

Oh my heart aches for someone who is so close and yet so far away.

reply to post by justamomma



Ok lets back up .....TO EZEK ......
What prophets are they talking about in that chapter ?

What conspiricy could they have been talking about ?
Who begged the Authorities to kill Jesus and his Apostles ? Who went about slandering them and accusing them ? Who walked around secretly plotting the deaths of Jesus and all who would follow him ? >>.......

THE PROPHETS OF JERUSALEM ..the Scribes and Pharisees ....those who begged for the killing of the SON OF GOD >>JESUS CHRIST >..
Those are the prophets they are talking about in Ezek and Daniel etc ...

The Priests and Scribes of Jerusalem ..

Originally posted by Simplynoone
reply to post by justamomma

 

Ok lets back up .....TO EZEK ......
What prophets are they talking about in that chapter ?

What conspiricy could they have been talking about ?
Who begged the Authorities to kill Jesus and his Apostles ? Who went about slandering them and accusing them ? Who walked around secretly plotting the deaths of Jesus and all who would follow him ? >>.......

THE PROPHETS OF JERUSALEM ..the Scribes and Pharisees ....those who begged for the killing of the SON OF GOD >>JESUS CHRIST >..
Those are the prophets they are talking about in Ezek and Daniel etc ...

The Priests and Scribes of Jerusalem ..

It is a metaphor Simplynoone. You all have killed the Son of man because you trust in the sacrifice rather than in the One you claim the sacrifice is to. You have sacrificed to yourself in order to cover yourself to gain riches.

The Son of man will rise and show himself to those who seek the Father more than they seek the treasures they were hoping to gain freely by the sacrifice.

Just so you know.. when you blame the Jewish people for killing the Son of man.. you are blaming yourself.

I took part in that sacrifice as well and until I let go of the vain hopes, the Son of man stayed in the grave. But I testify to you, he is risen. But you see that as a physical image.. as a man.

Psa 2:1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

Psa 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, [saying],

The Kings of the Earth and the Rulers take counsel together AGAINST HIS ANNOINTED (Does this sound like the apostles ?) NO >>.Who are the annointed ? (The Apostles and those who follow Jesus Christ the SON)
*This is the conspiricy ....it is against Jesus and his Apostles and those who follow them ....


Psa 2:3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

Psa 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

Psa 2:5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

Psa 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
((Who was that KING ? JESUS)) which that King is not yet sitting on the holy hill of Zion ...so that part has not yet come to pass ..it will though ....at JESUS (THAT KING) SECOND COMING >>>.

Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
((((((WHAT SON ? YES JESUS CHRIST who the Lord had BEGOTTEN))))

Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give [thee] the heathen [for] thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth [for] thy possession.
((((((((This is speaking of the GENTILES who the Lord God gave to Christ as a posession too (The adopted children or the other sheep he said he had who were not of the fold ((Of the Israelites the natural branches))

Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
((This is yet to come ..at the second coming Of Jesus Christ))
Psa 2:10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish [from] the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed [are] all they that put their trust in him.
((((((What son is he talking about here ? THE SON OF GOD JESUS CHRIST)))




[edit on 16-1-2009 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by Simplynoone


You are only annointed upon the arrival of the Son of man. Have *you* seen the Son of man return yet simplynoone?

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Psa 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

And this is true. Are you sure that you know who is in derision though? You condone many different beliefs.

Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
((This is yet to come ..at the second coming Of Jesus Christ))

I do not contend with this as it applies to me.. as it applies to you, I do contend. I have seen the second coming.. but it was not of Jesus... it is of the Son of man. He speaks comfort and joy to me. He teaches me knowledge daily and he shows me understanding. He took me to the right hand of the Father and there I found favor in His eyes.

Psa 2:10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

It is the truth lest we judge foolishly and heap coals of fire on the heads of others.

Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

Thus, I speak.
Thus I speak despite yours and others condemnation.
Thus I can understand it when I say "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do."

Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish [from] the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed [are] all they that put their trust in him.
((((((What son is he talking about here ? THE SON OF GOD JESUS CHRIST)))

Does it say Kiss the son of G.d who is Jesus Christ, simplynoone or are you adding your words to the Holy Word?

Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by Simplynoone

 

You are only annointed upon the arrival of the Son of man. Have *you* seen the Son of man return yet simplynoone?

The Son of Man (Born of a earthly women ) Son of God (concieved by the Holy Spirit of God) ....has already come and went to prepare a place for me ....and you if your willing to see and hear .......And is COMING BACK AGAIN .to recieve you (the natural branches of the tribes of Israel) back to himself and to put an end to this whole mess that MAN has gotten himself into ..........


Will you be ready ? Do you know him ? Does he know you ?

I pray that YOU recieve EARS TO HEAR and EYES TO SEE ..before that great and terrible day of the Lord comes ....

You are so confusing ..I have no way of knowing what your saying .
you make no sense ..

Are you saying that you are that son of man ?
And that you have sat at the right hand of the father already ?

I dont get it ...please explain where your coming from and what your really saying ...

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Now if that is so BACK IT UP ....because every book you say you believe as truth ...SPEAKS OTHERWISE and shows you to be a false teacher not Paul..and the false accuser of a fellow brethen of the apostles ..who is Paul .......

Uhm.. This was my thread and I told you to back up your claims that Paul is *not* a false teacher. I have backed up my claims on the Tanakh AND put these things in their intended context. YOu have not done so.

Badmedia stands in the same Word as I do and thus, since this is MY thread and I laid out the premise, the context, the basis for what can be considered *proof*, and the allegation that "paul is a false teacher, prove otherwise".. the burden of proof is on YOU.

You did not start this thread. I did.

I do not fear Paul AT ALL!!! Paul is NOT G.d and he thankfully will not be my judge. I was judged and declared innocent. My heart trembles only at the Word of the LORD.. .not the word of Paul. You show who you follow and it is not G.d. That is the truth.

His gospel was self admitted to be *his* gospel. You trust man and you miss out on so much because you search not after the ways of G.d.

Did you read my proof ?
I dont know what other proofs I could bring to the table ..
I will leave you to your thread ..

Originally posted by Simplynoone
You are so confusing ..I have no way of knowing what your saying .
you make no sense ..

Wow! Now I understand how Jesus must have felt.

John 3
9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

John 6

60Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

61When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?

62What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

64But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

66From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

The disciples left because they did not understand his words and they quit trying.

The Word was clear though how to testify that what I say is true and right.

John 5
37And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

38And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

41I receive not honour from men.

42But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

43I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

44How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

45Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

46For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.

47But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

It is true.

Also, Isaiah 8:20
"To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

So test me Simplynoone.. SEARCH AND KNOW the Law and the testimony and in them, you will see that I am testified of in there. It speaks of me. You do not understand me because you have no knowledge of the Law and of the testimony.



[edit on 16-1-2009 by justamomma]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Did you read my proof ?
I dont know what other proofs I could bring to the table ..
I will leave you to your thread ..

Thus..
I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Okay without lengthy quotes and backwords interpretations what is the issue here? ..

the bare bones, single sentence issue?

I would comment on the thread but at it's current state it's way too bogged down to pin-point any coherent message.

Let's get this back on track and try to refrain from using extremely lengthy quotes, maybe just quote the exact phrase and link to the actual text, but let's actually make some progress discussing this.

I've read a lot of the information being discussed here, but let's synthesize it into something we can all gain something from instead of quote wars.

reply to post by PuRe EnErGy


I like your thinking!

Okay.. here is a good place to start.

Paul says "It is written: the just shall live by faith alone."

Besides it being written in Habakkuk, can anyone find where this concept of faith is condoned in the Tanakh (that being Genesis - Malachi)?

It is simple and should motivate a good search of the Scriptures. If a concept is supported once in the Hebrew Scriptures, you will find that it is mentioned over and over and over again.

So.. justified by faith.. is it found more than in Habakkuk?

I would like to point out something that people overlook when reading the gnostic texts

In the Apocryphon of James
www.gnosis.org...

Jesus teaches the disciples after his crucifixion and gives the disciples names of those to come after them and teaches that the disciples will only be saved by those who are to come after them.

But we answered them, "He has ascended, and has given us a pledge, and promised life to us all, and revealed to us children (?) who are to come after us, after bidding us love them, as we would be saved for their sakes."

Which upset all of the disciples.

Another interesting bit is the inner-teachings concerning faith and rejection, where Christ teaches them because they have known him and have accepted him that they should "disdain the rejection" and upon hearing the promise to rejoice even more.

He also teaches concerning the flesh, the spirit and the soul.

In the gnostic scriptures it proclaims that the flesh being created by Yaltabaoth is a shadow of what it could be, and that the flesh and spirit had mixed and that we are trapped in the flesh that are not our "true garments"

Most of the esoteric (heretical) teachings of Jesus are speaking to the "spirit" within and how to liberate that "being" within us, the part of us that is from the "immovable race"

Verily, I say unto you, he will not forgive the soul the sin by any means, nor the flesh the guilt; for none of those who have worn the flesh will be saved. For do you think that many have found the kingdom of heaven? Blessed is he who has seen himself as a fourth one in heaven!"

These are not easy teachings to wrap your head around, even the disciples had a difficult time learning.

When we heard these words, we were distressed. But when he saw that we were distressed, he said, "For this cause I tell you this, that you may know yourselves.

I will now address your faith question, I just wanted to demonstrate how at the time of Jesus it was necessary for two sets of doctrines, heretics were not popular people back then.

reply to post by PuRe EnErGy


I could see that. I have not thorougly read all the gnostics, but the more light I see, I can see truth there.

But.. here is the thing with the gnostic gospels.. as you said, even those who were listening to the Word from the mouth of Jesus could not understand.

He brought the Word to them because they KNEW the Law.. therefore, they were ready to be set free through the Law by the only SAviour, which is the Father.

That is why the Tanakh is there. Once you see the Son of man has returned, then you start to see the Tanakh in the correct light. It very much becomes the same concept..

That is why Jesus pointed there.. to the Scriptures.. when you seek there, you start to see things as they were meant to be seen. You must first understand the physical since it is a representation of the spiritual.

He did not make this physical world in vain and He states this. Paul contradicted that. This is it folks.. this is the only way to find the light and see.. You must face the Law and when you struggle with it (because yes, it is a struggle), you will find the LORD your G.d and nothing can pluck you out of His hand.

To start on the gnostics would lead to a misinterpretation.. it would leave you relying on yourself still.. and relying on yourself is still relying on man. G.d wants us to rely on Him and to trust no other.



[edit on 16-1-2009 by justamomma]

So are you saying that you disagree with Paul?

Now I know I said to avoid long quotes lol (sorry)

Farming in the world requires the cooperation of four essential elements. A harvest is gathered into the barn only as a result of the natural action of water, earth, wind and light. God's farming likewise has four elements - faith, hope, love, and knowledge. Faith is our earth, that in which we take root. And hope is the water through which we are nourished. Love is the wind through which we grow. Knowledge, then, is the light through which we ripen. Grace exists in four ways: it is earthborn; it is heavenly; [...] the highest heaven; [...] in [...].

With that being said though, there are two "versions" of faith, there is the faith known by man, as believing in things without adequate proof but there is also a Pistis (Faith) which is mentioned Here
www.gnosis.org...

On the origin of the world explaining things that happened before genesis

But what is "faith" that most Christians speak of?

It is Faith in the birth, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, but what were his teachings and opinions on his own death? and resurrection?

When he had said those things, I saw him seemingly being seized by them. And I said "What do I see, O Lord? That it is you yourself whom they take, and that you are grasping me? Or who is this one, glad and laughing on the tree? And is it another one whose feet and hands they are striking?"

The Savior said to me, "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is his fleshly part, which is the substitute being put to shame, the one who came into being in his likeness. But look at him and me."

But I, when I had looked, said "Lord, no one is looking at you. Let us flee this place."

But he said to me, "I have told you, 'Leave the blind alone!'. And you, see how they do not know what they are saying. For the son of their glory instead of my servant, they have put to shame."

And I saw someone about to approach us resembling him, even him who was laughing on the tree. And he was (filled) with a Holy Spirit, and he is the Savior. And there was a great, ineffable light around them, and the multitude of ineffable and invisible angels blessing them. And when I looked at him, the one who gives praise was revealed.

And he said to me, "Be strong, for you are the one to whom these mysteries have been given, to know them through revelation, that he whom they crucified is the first-born, and the home of demons, and the stony vessel in which they dwell, of Elohim, of the cross, which is under the Law. But he who stands near him is the living Savior, the first in him, whom they seized and released, who stands joyfully looking at those who did him violence, while they are divided among themselves. Therefore he laughs at their lack of perception, knowing that they are born blind. So then the one susceptible to suffering shall come, since the body is the substitute. But what they released was my incorporeal body. But I am the intellectual Spirit filled with radiant light. He whom you saw coming to me is our intellectual Pleroma, which unites the perfect light with my Holy Spirit."

The main problem I have with your question about Faith being spoken more of than just in the Habakkuk is that I don't know which faith it is you speak of, the faith in Jesus Christ and his cross etc.. or that of Pistis (Faith)

After the natural structure of the immortal beings had completely developed out of the infinite, a likeness then emanated from Pistis (Faith); it is called Sophia (Wisdom). It exercised volition and became a product resembling the primeval light. And immediately her will manifested itself as a likeness of heaven, having an unimaginable magnitude; it was between the immortal beings and those things that came into being after them, like [...]: she (Sophia) functioned as a veil dividing mankind from the things above.

Because "It is written: the just shall live by faith alone." can have multiple meanings, it could have an outward teaching and a more esoteric teaching as well.

It is by the faith in the word of Christ that he has come to teach us concerning the true Father, not the creator of this place who is an ignorant and jealous god who himself had never seen the perfection from which he came, Jesus came to teach not only us about the true Father but also to teach the ignorant one (Yaltabaoth) of where he came from.

It is the Logos, the WORD.
For as to the word, its first part is faith; the second, love; the third, works; for from these comes life.

Through faith in the word and message of Christ we learn to love and through love we carry out the word and put it to action by our works.

The worldly message of Christ is only one side of the coin, the heretical and secret teachings have been hidden away and or destroyed, because Jesus taught very differently than we are told today by the various religious kingdoms that have appointed themselves Christ's vicar.

He taught of a trapped being encased in this flesh, not that we had "Christ" within us and that just by believing that we'd be saved.

It's what you do with his teachings.. "What will you do when you become two?"

11. Jesus said, "This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away.

The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. During the days when you ate what is dead, you made it come alive. When you are in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one, you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"

Will you disdain the rejection and rejoice at the promise?

or will you build yin? and avoid yang?

If you build the light and dark within yourself, which will you focus on?

in a very simplified version, will you be optimistic or pessimistic?

It is my belief that this whole faith business isn't about believing in something and that's that, I think the faith Jesus was speaking about is fundamentally different than having faith that the sun is going to appear in the sky again tomorrow.

I urge you to read the gnostic scriptures because if your interpretation is

it would leave you relying on yourself still.. and relying on yourself is still relying on man.

than you haven't understood what is written there.

Without Christ coming and telling us about the true Father, we would never have known, we would still be falsely worshiping Yaltabaoth who is the ignorant jealous creator of this place, he created this place without ever having seen where he came from because he was cast aside out of shame.

So you must have faith in Christ, because without faith in Christ and the Logos (the word) and his true revelation you would still be falsely believing in Yaltabaoth because if you reject what Christ has taught, than you believe that the god who made this place is the true god and thus you are not believing in the message Jesus Christ has brought from the true Father.
Christ was first made only begotten son (meaning from the father), Yaltabaoth was second made but was created without the consent of the father, the true Fathers counter-part created Yaltabaoth in ignorance and felt ashamed and cast him aside; he in turn got bored and took off and created a place also in ignorance since he'd never seen the perfection from which he came.

Long story short he was tricked into breathing his essence into us, we became smarter than him, he was angry and refused to worship or listen to us and then he tried stealing the essence back by creating "Eve" but it back fired again and made him (Yaltabaoth) even more angry, etc.. eventually he put us under some kind of sleep or ignorance and finally Christ came to teach us concerning where we came from and who we really are, and taught us about the true Father.

That is the faith as I know it.. faith in the message of Jesus Christ and his mission.

[edit on 1/16/2009 by PuRe EnErGy]

Originally posted by L.I.B.
This has been quite a thought provoking comment. While I mainly perceive the book of Revelation is about the spiritual transformation process, I won't limit it to be just that either.

So, like I said, that is quite a thought provoking comment. Mind taking a few minutes to tell me how you see that the first beast's wound is healed?

Sure thing. When it comes to revelation I do not claim to be an expert, so this is a topic where I do have a bit of flexibility as well. Now, I do see revelation being about spiritual transformation, but in the sense that the events themselves are eye openers which will show people who are paying attention truth. IE: those who look at the fruits. For example, it was the actions of GWB that got me to seek truth, because it was so obvious to me something wasn't right. Before that, I was just another regular old sleeping sheep. Joined the military at the age of 18, thought I was fighting for freedom and that we were the good guys etc.

What I look at is the actions of the RCC, it's function and what it did. And who I see that being done by today. Which of course is the U.S. We have in effect continued the crusade against non-believers. The RCC of course was all about the crusades in the middle east. And then you look at where our attention has gone and so on. If I turn on the TV, I have 5 channels of "christian" preachers on. And of course, as we are already in agreement, the mainstream church here is misleading people and so on. I have seen documentaries where people from US christian churches actively work to make the events of revelations to happen. They believe that by working to make these events happen they are doing gods work.

Google Video Link

As well, you look at who wins WW2 and makes the big change. You see the recreation of Israel, and huge support for it, mostly in terms of it's capability for making war. No secret where Israel gets it's power. 2nd time this has happened as well, as the RCC in it's crusades of course did about the same(and was eventually defeated).

If you were a native to that area, and were just someone who wanted to have a life in peace etc, then you would have seen this happen twice. First is the RCC, 2nd is Israel after WW2 by the hands of the U.S. Both brings wars and destruction. I'm not anti-semite, or racist at all. So this isn't against the Jewish people, anymore than I am I against the US people. The beasts are government, not the people who live there themselves.

I'm pretty open on these things, and this is one of those topics where I will always listen to anyones theory. 1 thing I am pretty sure of is that the RCC is the first beast. So what I am looking at is what has "healed" it, and it's function of war the most. It's also possible that who owns the US is not really the US, so it could be just a function of the 2nd beast. Like some people claim the US is just an arm of the queen, and the fed is just an arm to the bank of london etc. But I don't know about all that.

We may never agree on Paul, but perhaps none of us can agree with another in total.

For those who consider Paul to be a brother in Christ, it is seen that using Paul's name to represent idol worship is to be involved in the activities of whom the "accuser of our brethren" is. I've seen you say that you use his name as a symbol, and yet at the same time it seems that you are against symbols?

I kind of see Paul as like a politician. A politician gets up on the stage, has these great sayings, pays huge amounts of praise and tribute to things like this country. Talks about how great this country is, how glorious and gracious it is. How they LOVE this country and everything about it. They are lucky to have been born in this country.

But what they say is hollow. What does it mean to love this country and what it stands for? What is it that you are praising exactly? GWB says he loves this country, but then so does Ron Paul. Which 1 is actually following the things this country was founded on? GWB runs around talking about freedom all the time, praises it. But does he actually follow what it is to be free? Ron Paul does. Politicians have hollow words. They talk vaguely and with praise. The reason I liked Ron Paul is because he actually isn't hollow and speaks in ways that have understanding. He didn't operate on peoples fears, he spoke with understanding - to the point they censored and ridiculed him. Like his argument over the Iraq war, he says - how would we feel if they were doing that to us. That shows understanding and gives people understanding. A far cry from waving the flag, talking about how great the country is and how much they love it, and working in that way.

So when people are heavy in this words, such as most politicians and Paul, I take very big heed. GWB can say how great this country is, and I can't fault that exactly. But when I look at his actions, they say otherwise. And Paul talks about how great Jesus is, and I can't fault that exactly. But then when he talks about the actions themselves, they say otherwise.

I can see why Paul gets more play in the NT than pretty much the 12 original disciples combined when the bible is put together and accepted among Roman politicians.

I just don't like seeing you perceived as an agent of Satan.

I am use to being hated and called such things. Very use to it. Those trapped in the lie will view the truth as their enemy. I am told to expect nothing less than this.



[edit on 16-1-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by PuRe EnErGy


I am saying I 100% disagree with Paul!! Consider the following..

In Colossians 1.24 Paul writes:
Now I rejoice in sufferings for your sake and I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for the sake of his body...

This actually exposes the message of Paul as being one of deceit. When one is afflicted, they seek. If the children of Israel, while in the land of Israel, had not been afflicted, would they have turned to G.d to seek Him as their Saviour? Jesus' death is a picture of Christ in us. If Christ in us is afflicted, then we would seek G.d. But as long as one believes that Jesus (the man) is G.d (or the only son of G.d) and that his afflictions were enough to save us... what then do we have to seek? We no longer seek the knowledge of G.d that saves us.

Psalm 34
18 The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all.
20 He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken.

Notice, the minute that Paul's followers (*his* sheep) start feeling afflicted, in they rush to ease their afflictions.

I Thessalonians 3:
2And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:
3That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto.

In essence.. "don't worry.. we told you to just put your faith in this man who suffered for you and you will be okay. We told you why you would be afflicted so, just accept it. It is what it is... don't let anyone, including yourself sway you to doubt and search for youself... just trust us."

I Samuel 2: 3
Talk no more so exceeding proudly; let not arrogancy come out of your mouth: for the LORD is a God of knowledge, and by him actions are weighed.

Search the LORD who, as out of Jesus' mouth was confirmed, is the only one you should be seeking.. not a man, even if his name is Jesus. He was an example of how you find the Son of man (the LORD).. when you are spiritually lacking, you seek for the knowledge. But if you believe a man is your Saviour who will come back, you unknowingly just chalk your afflictions up to that and have no need to really search after G.d.

Job 15: 2
Should a wise man utter vain knowledge, and fill his belly with the east wind?

21: 14
Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways.

vs. 34
How then comfort ye me in vain, seeing in your answers there remaineth falsehood?

Paul says:
I Cor 3
19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
20And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

But the Lord said:
Isaiah 45: 18
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

Deut 1: 13
Take you wise men, and understanding, and known among your tribes, and I will make them rulers over you.

Proverbs 1: 5
A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:

Proverbs 10: 14
Wise men lay up knowledge: but the mouth of the foolish is near destruction.

What does Paul think the purpose of this life is for? Walk through the fire here and you gain knowledge that leads to life.

Paul says:
2 Cor 11: 21
I speak as concerning reproach, as though we had been weak. Howbeit whereinsoever any is bold, (I speak foolishly,) I am bold also.

yes, no doubt Paul

Proverbs 16: 22
Understanding is a wellspring of life unto him that hath it: but the instruction of fools is folly.

Proverbs 15: 14
The heart of him that hath understanding seeketh knowledge: but the mouth of fools feedeth on foolishness.

Proverbs 15: 17
The lips of the wise disperse knowledge: but the heart of the foolish doeth not so.

Psalm 39: 8
Deliver me from all my transgressions: make me not the reproach of the foolish.

So, paul being wise yet deceitful has filled up the reason for the affliction with a false message.. blind faith that Jesus paid for your sins. Ignore the affliction you feel in your soul and you ignore the correction of the Almighty!

Ignore the correction of G.d and look at what you miss out on:

Job 5:
17 Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:
18 For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole.
19 He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee.

G.d is the ONLY Savior.. there is no other.