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Paul ~ Inventing a new saviour
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reply to post by One4truth
I am not saying that you are wrong in what you feel (whatever helps ya to lead a better life while alive.. all the better for society overall) .... What I am saying is prove me wrong.
I appreciate your testimony and I won't judge it. My premise here though is that if you believe the message of Paul.. that Jesus is G.d in the flesh and should be accepted as such, then you are not in agreement with the Hebrew Scriptures.
We keep getting off on the fun little side tracks.. me included, but *that* is the truth.
What Paul taught and what the Torah and the Tanakh taught were two different things. Yes or no? If no, then can you prove it?
[edit on 12-1-2009 by justamomma]
I am not saying that you are wrong in what you feel (whatever helps ya to lead a better life while alive.. all the better for society overall) .... What I am saying is prove me wrong.
I appreciate your testimony and I won't judge it. My premise here though is that if you believe the message of Paul.. that Jesus is G.d in the flesh and should be accepted as such, then you are not in agreement with the Hebrew Scriptures.
We keep getting off on the fun little side tracks.. me included, but *that* is the truth.
What Paul taught and what the Torah and the Tanakh taught were two different things. Yes or no? If no, then can you prove it?
[edit on 12-1-2009 by justamomma]
Originally posted by One4truth
I just wanted to add my two cents here if I may. I don't think following Jesus as my savior is the broad path. Paul says we need to die to self, and put on Christ. How is dying to self and living righteously to God, leading to destruction? The only destruction I can see is to my flesh nature. I am saved by grace through faith, from my fallen nature so that I can walk as Christ would have me to walk. I could not do it before, trust me I tried. No matter how hard I tried I could not cease from sin. When I got saved, it all changed. Now, when I walk with God, my new nature from God puts to death the fleshly lusts. I was in bondage to sin, a lot of it, but Christ freed me from it. Badmedia, you call the salvation messege a lie, but knowing my transformation from what I was, I cannot agree. You have been given revelation knowledge, fine. So have I, through visions, dreams, and other ways, and they all confirmed scripture. Not just the red letters either. I do not presume to know everything (not saying you are), and I am sure there is much I don't know, I am still searching. But I made an agreement with myself and my wife that if the scripture says something I am goung to inquire God about it. He has never shown me where it is a lie, whether in the gospels or letters, OT or NT.
I do believe that the Jews where Gods chosen people, as an example of how He yearns for His children to follow Him. Do I think that salvation only comes for Jews? No, because God is not a respecter of persons.
That's all I have time for for now. Let's all try to speak the truth in love and not for arguements sake
It's not that salvation in itself is a lie. It's those who say to only believe and have faith in Jesus and that is all you need that tell a lie. If you believe, then you will do as he says and keep his commandments.
See, before Jesus, men did not understand how to be. They had commandments, but they didn't follow them right. So Jesus comes to show people the true path. And when people say "just believe" and then don't follow the path, and actively teach people to just believe and have faith, then these people have decieved and lead people down a broad and destructive path.
These people view Jesus as a sacrificial lamb. In the same way you would sacrifice an animal(which btw, is an example of how people looked literally at things, rather than understanding what is being talked about). And that as long as you believe in Jesus, then it doesn't matter if you have sinned or not, your sins are washed away in his blood. But this is perversion and manipulation. The truth here is that Jesus laid up his life, came here by choice and did what he did so that people can see how to act and the example to follow(which is why he talks about keeping the commandments and such so much). He never tells anyone to "just have faith, or just believe", he says those who believe walk the path. These people put the importance of Jesus about his death.
But his death is the death of truth, so that the lie of this world can live. And it does live. People conspired to kill him because he threatened their power. Satan or evil see's his death as their victory, but what they failed to see is the path and example Jesus gave to people, and what he showed people - that those who might believe will follow the path and "escape".
I said before that I was shown the truth and recognized it in Jesus. The truth I was shown is the path Jesus laid out. I did not get it as "follow Jesus", but rather I got the understandings as to why it is important to follow and so on. Where jesus says love thy neighbor as thyself, I learned it as - do not impose on the free will of others. Both mean the same thing, as if you love something you will set it free and not impose on their will. That is to treat your neighbor as thyself. These were the things I noticed in Jesus that drew me to the bible to begin with. It wasn't the exact words that matched, but rather the understandings behind the words.
So, all importance for me is on the path. That is what I learned, that is what I know. I know how the universe is, and there is an actual path. And when I started to show and tell people things, it is always Paul that gets thrown into my face. Ask someone why they don't follow, and you get Paul, how we are all sinners and such. This in itself tells people - you are not good enough to be like Jesus. It creates this seperation, it puts you down. Submit to authority because you are not good enough and so on. And yet, those who follow this stuff actively put themselves down, saying they are not worthy, and it's only by grace they are saved and so on. Which btw, is heavily dosed with BS(goes with what is truly respectful). And yet, at the same time Jesus even says - if you believe you can be and do like him and more.
I am to believe that Jesus is so vein he cares more about his name, than if people follow the path or not? As if you must kiss his rear all the time and if you don't, then he won't care about you? No way, and this is exactly what he says - you can sin against his name and be forgiven, and paying lip service will not get you anywhere. Such notions are the notions of man, it is man who seeks such praise, egotistical man.
If you understand that if you believe then you will walk the path - great. But I grew up in the bible belt. I went to every different kind of church I could find. Each and every one of them "saved" me, and never once did anything change for me. Never was I shown or told about a path. The only "path" I was ever told or shown was to believe and have faith in Jesus the idol. Always John 3:16 - the only bible verse I have had memorized since I was a kid.
It's all about how manipulation works. Hidden in plain view. Like take a "spell". In a movie like Harry Potter, the spell is taken to be like words that hold physical power. But in truth, such spells are words spoken to people, which then get the people to do things - that is where the power is. Most politicians are sorcerers. Like take the power of a symbol. Again, this is made off to be physical power, when the true power of the symbolism is the people who will follow the symbolism. The power of the cross for example does not come from a physical power, but the power of the belief of the people and those who carry these symbols gain that power. So when you manipulate these things into spells like wizards, and runes and such, then you have taken away the true meaning. Like how the older "gods", and people say that the gods lose power when people no longer believe in them. That is true, but is the power of the symbolism for those who use it that the power is lost, and so they change symbolism.
Look at the power of the American flag. And notice how Obama(not a fan) was ridiculed for not wearing the pin/symoblism. As if to say, what makes someone legit is if they carry the symbolism, because that is what they want people to focus on.
Now, our communication is limited and based on symbols. You can not avoid this. Take a real look at how communication works. I have an image/event in my head. I can see it pretty clear. I have to take that image, and put it into words that describe it. Those words then go to your ears. At that point, you will try to rebuild the image based on my description. The better the description, the better you can do this. The words are symbols we use. Confusion comes because of such manipulation, which of course benefits someone, but not the confused.
What I see Paul do, is change and manipulate things in this way. As if Jesus is nothing more than a brand name that is easily marketable. Believe in Jesus, and then the symbolism is used to get people to follow paths that are not his. Just as the church sets up authority and positions of authority. Just as the church lead the crusades, all that death and destruction and so on.
And it's not just religion, it's in everything. Politics is right up there if not worse.
reply to post by badmedia
Wow... though I already agree with you, that explanation was brilliant.
I read it and immediately heard 'My sheep know me and hear my voice."
It was the Word that calls.. what was the Word? It was the same Word that spoke through other prophets.
If you KNOW that Word... than you recognize that Word wherever and regardless of whose mouth it comes from; whose name is attached to the mouth; blah blah.
The Word speaks and we follow. It is not bound to anything or anyone. Jesus was the vessel for the Word, just like Ezekiel, Daniel and other prophets.
And here is where it becomes important to know the Word.
Ezekiel 24:
25 Also, thou son of man, shall it not be in the day when I take from them their strength, the joy of their glory, the desire of their eyes, and that whereupon they set their minds, their sons and their daughters,
26 That he that escapeth in that day shall come unto thee, to cause thee to hear it with thine ears?
27 In that day shall thy mouth be opened to him which is escaped, and thou shalt speak, and be no more dumb: and thou shalt be a sign unto them; and they shall know that I am the LORD.
(my sheep KNOW me and they hear my voice)
Most people know how Paul viewed Jesus. Most people know what is described in Revelation.
But how many people know the *Word* of the Lord (not speaking of the bible)
*raises hand*
Wow... though I already agree with you, that explanation was brilliant.
I read it and immediately heard 'My sheep know me and hear my voice."
It was the Word that calls.. what was the Word? It was the same Word that spoke through other prophets.
If you KNOW that Word... than you recognize that Word wherever and regardless of whose mouth it comes from; whose name is attached to the mouth; blah blah.
The Word speaks and we follow. It is not bound to anything or anyone. Jesus was the vessel for the Word, just like Ezekiel, Daniel and other prophets.
And here is where it becomes important to know the Word.
Ezekiel 24:
25 Also, thou son of man, shall it not be in the day when I take from them their strength, the joy of their glory, the desire of their eyes, and that whereupon they set their minds, their sons and their daughters,
26 That he that escapeth in that day shall come unto thee, to cause thee to hear it with thine ears?
27 In that day shall thy mouth be opened to him which is escaped, and thou shalt speak, and be no more dumb: and thou shalt be a sign unto them; and they shall know that I am the LORD.
(my sheep KNOW me and they hear my voice)
Most people know how Paul viewed Jesus. Most people know what is described in Revelation.
But how many people know the *Word* of the Lord (not speaking of the bible)
*raises hand*
I just remembered something... the brilliant wisdom of my mom when I was a child.
There was a time when I was younger that the big story of "the day" was children being kidnapped by people that would come to the child's school (I think the particular story was a neighbor of the child) and say they were picking up the child for the parent.
This frightened my mother. She sat me down (I was around 5ish) and told me that we were coming up with a word so that if something happened to her and my dad and they had to send someone to the school to pick me up, I was to ask the person to give me the word. If they didn't say "it" .. then I was NOT to leave with them NO MATTER WHAT; EVEN IF the school had gotten a phone call from my parents.
She made it adament that I KNEW this word and did not share it with anyone. The person with *that* word, would be the one sent to fetch me on her behalf.
The Word is not Jesus. It is not Yeshua. The Word of the Lord has not been spoken.. but we KNOW it. It is a Word that is in the heart. Obedience is not the Word. G.d is not the Word. It is a Word that is not speakable because there are no words for *this* Word.
All we know is that Word has been placed in our hearts and that when it is spoken, we have been sent for by the Father Himself. Anyone who does not have that Word is a deceiver and we KNOW not to go with them (believe them).
There was a time when I was younger that the big story of "the day" was children being kidnapped by people that would come to the child's school (I think the particular story was a neighbor of the child) and say they were picking up the child for the parent.
This frightened my mother. She sat me down (I was around 5ish) and told me that we were coming up with a word so that if something happened to her and my dad and they had to send someone to the school to pick me up, I was to ask the person to give me the word. If they didn't say "it" .. then I was NOT to leave with them NO MATTER WHAT; EVEN IF the school had gotten a phone call from my parents.
She made it adament that I KNEW this word and did not share it with anyone. The person with *that* word, would be the one sent to fetch me on her behalf.
The Word is not Jesus. It is not Yeshua. The Word of the Lord has not been spoken.. but we KNOW it. It is a Word that is in the heart. Obedience is not the Word. G.d is not the Word. It is a Word that is not speakable because there are no words for *this* Word.
All we know is that Word has been placed in our hearts and that when it is spoken, we have been sent for by the Father Himself. Anyone who does not have that Word is a deceiver and we KNOW not to go with them (believe them).
www.abovetopsecret.com...
reply to post by One4truthreplying to your post(link above). Very well said, star for you and I will add you as a friend.
Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by badmedia
Wow... though I already agree with you, that explanation was brilliant.
I read it and immediately heard 'My sheep know me and hear my voice."
It was the Word that calls.. what was the Word? It was the same Word that spoke through other prophets.
If you KNOW that Word... than you recognize that Word wherever and regardless of whose mouth it comes from; whose name is attached to the mouth; blah blah.
The Word speaks and we follow. It is not bound to anything or anyone. Jesus was the vessel for the Word, just like Ezekiel, Daniel and other prophets.
.......and the WORD became LIFE and dwelt amoung us.
reply to post by Simplynoone
This is what I have been saying!
Don't we all learn from one another? Don't we take from each other what is useful to us in our journey and leave the rest?
What I have been saying all along is that Paul merely has teachings that can be useful to us. Granted, he has said things that I too take issue with, but that doesn't mean he hasn't also given some sound advice. Take what is useful and leave the rest! What is so hard about that?
Calling him a false prophet is like calling badmedia, justamomma, simplynoone... anyone who has had the word revealed to them a false prophet. And I say that because I know Paul had the word revealed to him too.
I see everyone's point here who has been posting. I just don't know why anyone has to slander another for their point to be more valid.
Perhaps we don't understand each other. Like Paul is not understood.
Part of why Paul isn't understood is because it certainly looks like that people don't realize and know how the heavenly congress is working on each individual believer to bring them to the same point of receiving the word.
I too used to say that only those who had received the word were following the path of Jesus. I now say that ONLY those who have received the word are CAPABLE of it.
Jesus' name means something to the effect of: God will save.
Christ means anointed.
I also used to say that Jesus Christ meant that God will save only the anointed.
Now I say that the anointed can bring along others, but that there isn't any guarantee that Jesus will say he knows us. Why? Because he has a lot of teachings that aren't being paid attention to while we bang on people for "whatever their shortcoming" might be... for what they are not yet CAPABLE of.
The story of the talents for example... how many have added to their talents since receiving the word?
There is just so much that isn't realized... how those who have received the word are being made/transformed to have the ability to stand in the presence of God without being destroyed.
How if those who are not yet capable of following/imitating Jesus, if those persons were put into the presence of God too soon they would be destroyed... for sin can not be in the presence of God. Yet, the Christ spirit can be in the presence of sin and not destroy or be destroyed.
Does not anyone trust God that he is being patient and is wishing that not any should perish? And, that his plan is perfect and is now being performed on those who do not yet have the word?
How many pray for more harvesters? Yes... the more there are the sooner we get to critical mass. Or, are we too wrapped up in our own self importance?
How many pray for God's will to be done on earth? Yes, the world will get more and more uncomfortable if this is done, but it can bring people to their senses, or make them curse God. Either way, let's get this show on the road! Oh, I know that betrays a lack of patience on my part and of thinking that God is taking too long.
If it had ended when badmedia was asked that question, justamomma would not have had her encounter... and she could have been counted among those considered... how is that you view those who do not yet know God?
Simplynoone, at some point I stopped talking to you and just got on a soapbox and probably began only speaking to myself...
edit for punctuation
[edit on 12-1-2009 by L.I.B.]
[You are replacing a personal relationship with god with the relationship of another person(Paul) as your relationship]
LOL No sir I am not ...I would sit down and have coffee with Paul and pick his brain ..pray with him ...read with him or whatever .. ...just like I would you or Justamomma or LIB or John or whoever .......Paul gets as much respect as you all would get (no more no less) ....and I consider him to be as much of a blessing to me as John or LIB or Matrix or you or Justamomma or anyone ........
No sir ...JESUS IS MY SAVIOUR ..MY KING >..MY EVERYTHING >>but LIB and John and many others who believe in the Lord can and do INSPIRE ME AND HELP ME AND TEACH ME >.........they have gifts I dont have ..they have knowledge about some things I dont have about ...I can LEARN FROM THEM just like I can learn from Paul or anyone else .........
Heck I learn something new everyday from Justamomma ...(about the Jewish beliefs).....that even helps me ...
This is what I have been saying!
Don't we all learn from one another? Don't we take from each other what is useful to us in our journey and leave the rest?
What I have been saying all along is that Paul merely has teachings that can be useful to us. Granted, he has said things that I too take issue with, but that doesn't mean he hasn't also given some sound advice. Take what is useful and leave the rest! What is so hard about that?
Calling him a false prophet is like calling badmedia, justamomma, simplynoone... anyone who has had the word revealed to them a false prophet. And I say that because I know Paul had the word revealed to him too.
I see everyone's point here who has been posting. I just don't know why anyone has to slander another for their point to be more valid.
Perhaps we don't understand each other. Like Paul is not understood.
Part of why Paul isn't understood is because it certainly looks like that people don't realize and know how the heavenly congress is working on each individual believer to bring them to the same point of receiving the word.
I too used to say that only those who had received the word were following the path of Jesus. I now say that ONLY those who have received the word are CAPABLE of it.
Jesus' name means something to the effect of: God will save.
Christ means anointed.
I also used to say that Jesus Christ meant that God will save only the anointed.
Now I say that the anointed can bring along others, but that there isn't any guarantee that Jesus will say he knows us. Why? Because he has a lot of teachings that aren't being paid attention to while we bang on people for "whatever their shortcoming" might be... for what they are not yet CAPABLE of.
The story of the talents for example... how many have added to their talents since receiving the word?
There is just so much that isn't realized... how those who have received the word are being made/transformed to have the ability to stand in the presence of God without being destroyed.
How if those who are not yet capable of following/imitating Jesus, if those persons were put into the presence of God too soon they would be destroyed... for sin can not be in the presence of God. Yet, the Christ spirit can be in the presence of sin and not destroy or be destroyed.
Does not anyone trust God that he is being patient and is wishing that not any should perish? And, that his plan is perfect and is now being performed on those who do not yet have the word?
How many pray for more harvesters? Yes... the more there are the sooner we get to critical mass. Or, are we too wrapped up in our own self importance?
How many pray for God's will to be done on earth? Yes, the world will get more and more uncomfortable if this is done, but it can bring people to their senses, or make them curse God. Either way, let's get this show on the road! Oh, I know that betrays a lack of patience on my part and of thinking that God is taking too long.
If it had ended when badmedia was asked that question, justamomma would not have had her encounter... and she could have been counted among those considered... how is that you view those who do not yet know God?
Simplynoone, at some point I stopped talking to you and just got on a soapbox and probably began only speaking to myself...
edit for punctuation
[edit on 12-1-2009 by L.I.B.]
reply to post by badmedia
Part 1: Salvation as taught by Jesus:
In the Book of Luke, we see that Jesus' Mission was prophesied by the Prophet Isaiah:
Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this Scripture fulfilled in your ears.
The first thing Jesus read here in the Book of Isaiah was that the Spirit of the Lord had anointed Him to preach the gospel to the poor. It's the gospel of the Kingdom of God. At this point, I believe it is necessary to look at the gospel that Jesus preached in order to get a right picture of what Salvation is. If our gospel doesn't line up with that which Jesus preached, we have a problem, and it's not Jesus who is in error.
Concerning Jesus, we read that the Angel of the Lord announced to Joseph that He would save His people from their sins:
Mat 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.
20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife; for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Simeon recognized the child Jesus as the One who would come to save all mankind, both Jew and Gentile:
Luk 2:25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.
26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,
29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
John the Baptist came and preached of the salvation of God that was to come through Jesus Christ:
Luk 3:2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
4 As it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
Regarding Jesus, John the Baptist testified that He takes away the sin of the world: Jesus' objective was to save all the people of the world from their sin, both Jew and Gentile alike.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Each one of these verses just quoted above mention the fact that the WORK that Jesus Christ came to do was to save us FROM our sins.
Matt. 1:19-22: "He shall save His people FROM their sins".
Next: the Parable of the Sower.
Part 1: Salvation as taught by Jesus:
In the Book of Luke, we see that Jesus' Mission was prophesied by the Prophet Isaiah:
Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this Scripture fulfilled in your ears.
The first thing Jesus read here in the Book of Isaiah was that the Spirit of the Lord had anointed Him to preach the gospel to the poor. It's the gospel of the Kingdom of God. At this point, I believe it is necessary to look at the gospel that Jesus preached in order to get a right picture of what Salvation is. If our gospel doesn't line up with that which Jesus preached, we have a problem, and it's not Jesus who is in error.
Concerning Jesus, we read that the Angel of the Lord announced to Joseph that He would save His people from their sins:
Mat 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.
20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife; for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Simeon recognized the child Jesus as the One who would come to save all mankind, both Jew and Gentile:
Luk 2:25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.
26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,
29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
John the Baptist came and preached of the salvation of God that was to come through Jesus Christ:
Luk 3:2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
4 As it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
Regarding Jesus, John the Baptist testified that He takes away the sin of the world: Jesus' objective was to save all the people of the world from their sin, both Jew and Gentile alike.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Each one of these verses just quoted above mention the fact that the WORK that Jesus Christ came to do was to save us FROM our sins.
Matt. 1:19-22: "He shall save His people FROM their sins".
Next: the Parable of the Sower.
reply to post by justamomma
I would like to direct you to Mark 16 and other related verses (NOTICE NO QUOTES FROM PAUL ) .....
Mar 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In MY NAME shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Mar 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Mar 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with [them], and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
IN WHO's NAME ? THE NAME OF JESUS >>>>
Mat 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
Mat 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
(((((((ALL POWER WAS GIVEN UNTO JESUS ))))))))))))))))))
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(((BAPTIZING IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER THE SON (JESUS) and the HOLY GHOST ))))))))))))
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
(((((((WHO WAS THIS SON OF GOD? JESUS ))))))))
Mat 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Mar 9:7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
Luk 9:35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Psa 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Treasury of Scripture KnowledgeConcordance and Hebrew/Greek
Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psa 8:1 [[To the chief Musician upon Gittith, A Psalm of David.]] O LORD our Lord, how excellent [is] thy NAME in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
Psa 20:1 [[To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.]] The LORD hear thee in the day of trouble; the NAME of the God of Jacob defend thee;
Psa 44:20 If we have forgotten the NAME of our God, or stretched out our hands to a strange god;
Psa 54:1 [[To the chief Musician on Neginoth, Maschil, [A Psalm] of David, when the Ziphims came and said to Saul, Doth not David hide himself with us?]] Save me, O God, by thy NAME, and judge me by thy strength.
Psa 69:30 I will praise the NAME of God with a song, and will magnify him with thanksgiving.
Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what [is] his name, and what [is] his son's name, if thou canst tell?
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name IMMANUAL
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 30:27 Behold, the name of the LORD cometh from far, burning [with] his anger, and the burden [thereof is] heavy: his lips are full of indignation, and his tongue as a devouring fire:
We are all sons of God if we love him ..BUT JESUS was the ONLY BEGOTTEN son of God .....
Jesus was born of a VIRGIN >..(Seed from GOD) .and WOMAN (MARY)...through the HOLY SPIRIT .....
hence SON OF MAN ...SON OF GOD >>.
Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
BEGOTTEN
1) single of its kind, only
a) used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)
b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God
Before you go and holler about Paul again ...please NOTICE IT WAS JOHN who wrote that ...NOT PAUL ...so is JOHN A FALSE PROPHET TOO ?
What about Mark and Matthew ?
I would like to direct you to Mark 16 and other related verses (NOTICE NO QUOTES FROM PAUL ) .....
Mar 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In MY NAME shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Mar 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Mar 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with [them], and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
IN WHO's NAME ? THE NAME OF JESUS >>>>
Mat 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
Mat 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
(((((((ALL POWER WAS GIVEN UNTO JESUS ))))))))))))))))))
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(((BAPTIZING IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER THE SON (JESUS) and the HOLY GHOST ))))))))))))
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
(((((((WHO WAS THIS SON OF GOD? JESUS ))))))))
Mat 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Mar 9:7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
Luk 9:35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Psa 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Treasury of Scripture KnowledgeConcordance and Hebrew/Greek
Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psa 8:1 [[To the chief Musician upon Gittith, A Psalm of David.]] O LORD our Lord, how excellent [is] thy NAME in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
Psa 20:1 [[To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.]] The LORD hear thee in the day of trouble; the NAME of the God of Jacob defend thee;
Psa 44:20 If we have forgotten the NAME of our God, or stretched out our hands to a strange god;
Psa 54:1 [[To the chief Musician on Neginoth, Maschil, [A Psalm] of David, when the Ziphims came and said to Saul, Doth not David hide himself with us?]] Save me, O God, by thy NAME, and judge me by thy strength.
Psa 69:30 I will praise the NAME of God with a song, and will magnify him with thanksgiving.
Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what [is] his name, and what [is] his son's name, if thou canst tell?
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name IMMANUAL
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 30:27 Behold, the name of the LORD cometh from far, burning [with] his anger, and the burden [thereof is] heavy: his lips are full of indignation, and his tongue as a devouring fire:
We are all sons of God if we love him ..BUT JESUS was the ONLY BEGOTTEN son of God .....
Jesus was born of a VIRGIN >..(Seed from GOD) .and WOMAN (MARY)...through the HOLY SPIRIT .....
hence SON OF MAN ...SON OF GOD >>.
Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
BEGOTTEN
1) single of its kind, only
a) used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)
b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God
Before you go and holler about Paul again ...please NOTICE IT WAS JOHN who wrote that ...NOT PAUL ...so is JOHN A FALSE PROPHET TOO ?
What about Mark and Matthew ?
Hi LIB
[Now I say that the anointed can bring along others]
Absolutely which is the whole point of why we are told to go into all the world and preach the GOSPEL to all NATIONS ...calling as many who will come to come ..
Mat 22:9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
Mat 22:10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
Luk 14:23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel [them] to come in, that my house may be filled.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
[Now I say that the anointed can bring along others]
Absolutely which is the whole point of why we are told to go into all the world and preach the GOSPEL to all NATIONS ...calling as many who will come to come ..
Mat 22:9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
Mat 22:10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
Luk 14:23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel [them] to come in, that my house may be filled.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
reply to post by badmedia
Part 2: The Parable of the Sower
In Luke 8:11, we read that Jesus identifies the seed that the sower sows as the Word of God. (Luk 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.)
MARK 4:14 The sower soweth the word.
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; 17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
20 And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred.
Matt 13:22 records our Lord as saying that he who received the seed into the good ground is he that hears the word AND UNDERSTANDS IT, AND ALSO BEARS FRUIT. Each of the accounts of this parable mentions that the one who receives the Word and understands it (or receives it), bears fruit.
Each account of this parable has slight variations, and I believe that this is NOT because of a lapse of memory on the part of the authors, but because there is an important Truth in each account that needs to be seen. For instance, in Luke 8:12 concerning the seeds that landed by the way side, our Teacher mentions that the devil comes once they have heard, and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. This is a very important point to consider if one is going to learn of the doctrine of salvation as taught by Jesus Christ, our Saviour.
Luk 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
By now it should be evident that the point of this parable has to do with the salvation of a person who has become a citizen of the Kingdom of God. We know that the Word of God says that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life (Jn 3:15-18), and from this parable, we can see that Satan is actively involved in preventing men from believing and being saved.
As a matter of fact in 2 Cor 4:4 confirms this:
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
In Luke 8:13, we see that some receive the word with joy, and BELIEVE for a while, but because they are not rooted, in time of temptation they eventually fall away.
Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
The Parable of the Rich Man. You already quoted this one(I think) so I will only comment on this as follows:
1. The Rich Man thought he could "Do" something or probably thought he could purchase His way into the Kingdom. We know that He Kept the Law and Jesus did not even challenge Him on that Point. So we also Know that keeping the 10 commandments was not good enough to enter the Kingdom.
2. The "Eye of A Needle" was in reference to a Small Entrance through the Wall of the City of Jerusalem. Jesus was not referring to a sowing needle. A person could fit through the opening but it was very difficult for anyone to bring "things" through the opening along with him.
3. So the question I will answer: Is this something everyone must do? We learn from 1 Timothy 6:17-19 that there indeed can be "rich people in the present age" in the Kingdom. Thus, it is not a strict command to everyone! What it does mean is that if we are called upon, we ought not to rely on our wealth for salvation.
4. So you might ask: Why did Jesus give this young man this charge?
Well, Jesus, knowing all things, recognized the weakness of the rich young ruler. It was no use arguing with him over whether he kept the
commandments or not: the real test was whether he would give up his money for God, and he was not willing to do so! Since He loved money more than God; he could not be a disciple!
5. The lesson here is that we must release and become unattachment to worldly things and give them up to God. Any Wealth we might have becomes His. Any wealth we might gain we percieve as a blessing from God. The moment one loses sight of this fact, he is not conducting himself in a faithful manner, worshipping God, or giving God all the Glory for all the Good and Blessings he has bestowed upon us.
6. The problem with the rich man was in his question. He wanted to know what good deed could he do to obtain eternal life? In reality, the answer is: absolutely nothing! There is nothing we can do to obtain eternal life-- we have all sinned, and we cannot be saved through our own righteousness (Romans 3:23, Titus 3:3-8) Thus, it is impossible with man: man can do nothing to be saved! But it is possible with God-- He can accomplish the work in Jesus Christ that can lead to the salvation of any who would come (Titus 3:3-8, 1 Timothy 2:4)!
7. Thus it is only God who is good-- He is the only one who can save! In the end, Jesus does tell us who will obtain eternal life! Matthew 19:28-29: those who forsake any other relationship when called upon to follow after Jesus will obtain eternal life! Such people do not follow Jesus in order to earn their salvation: they follow Jesus because Jesus has delivered
them from sin and death, and has called them to obedient faith (Romans 6)
This will mean that many great ones will be humbled, and humble people will be exalted!
[edit on 12-1-2009 by John Matrix]
Part 2: The Parable of the Sower
In Luke 8:11, we read that Jesus identifies the seed that the sower sows as the Word of God. (Luk 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.)
MARK 4:14 The sower soweth the word.
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; 17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
20 And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred.
Matt 13:22 records our Lord as saying that he who received the seed into the good ground is he that hears the word AND UNDERSTANDS IT, AND ALSO BEARS FRUIT. Each of the accounts of this parable mentions that the one who receives the Word and understands it (or receives it), bears fruit.
Each account of this parable has slight variations, and I believe that this is NOT because of a lapse of memory on the part of the authors, but because there is an important Truth in each account that needs to be seen. For instance, in Luke 8:12 concerning the seeds that landed by the way side, our Teacher mentions that the devil comes once they have heard, and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. This is a very important point to consider if one is going to learn of the doctrine of salvation as taught by Jesus Christ, our Saviour.
Luk 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
By now it should be evident that the point of this parable has to do with the salvation of a person who has become a citizen of the Kingdom of God. We know that the Word of God says that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life (Jn 3:15-18), and from this parable, we can see that Satan is actively involved in preventing men from believing and being saved.
As a matter of fact in 2 Cor 4:4 confirms this:
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
In Luke 8:13, we see that some receive the word with joy, and BELIEVE for a while, but because they are not rooted, in time of temptation they eventually fall away.
Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
The Parable of the Rich Man. You already quoted this one(I think) so I will only comment on this as follows:
1. The Rich Man thought he could "Do" something or probably thought he could purchase His way into the Kingdom. We know that He Kept the Law and Jesus did not even challenge Him on that Point. So we also Know that keeping the 10 commandments was not good enough to enter the Kingdom.
2. The "Eye of A Needle" was in reference to a Small Entrance through the Wall of the City of Jerusalem. Jesus was not referring to a sowing needle. A person could fit through the opening but it was very difficult for anyone to bring "things" through the opening along with him.
3. So the question I will answer: Is this something everyone must do? We learn from 1 Timothy 6:17-19 that there indeed can be "rich people in the present age" in the Kingdom. Thus, it is not a strict command to everyone! What it does mean is that if we are called upon, we ought not to rely on our wealth for salvation.
4. So you might ask: Why did Jesus give this young man this charge?
Well, Jesus, knowing all things, recognized the weakness of the rich young ruler. It was no use arguing with him over whether he kept the
commandments or not: the real test was whether he would give up his money for God, and he was not willing to do so! Since He loved money more than God; he could not be a disciple!
5. The lesson here is that we must release and become unattachment to worldly things and give them up to God. Any Wealth we might have becomes His. Any wealth we might gain we percieve as a blessing from God. The moment one loses sight of this fact, he is not conducting himself in a faithful manner, worshipping God, or giving God all the Glory for all the Good and Blessings he has bestowed upon us.
6. The problem with the rich man was in his question. He wanted to know what good deed could he do to obtain eternal life? In reality, the answer is: absolutely nothing! There is nothing we can do to obtain eternal life-- we have all sinned, and we cannot be saved through our own righteousness (Romans 3:23, Titus 3:3-8) Thus, it is impossible with man: man can do nothing to be saved! But it is possible with God-- He can accomplish the work in Jesus Christ that can lead to the salvation of any who would come (Titus 3:3-8, 1 Timothy 2:4)!
7. Thus it is only God who is good-- He is the only one who can save! In the end, Jesus does tell us who will obtain eternal life! Matthew 19:28-29: those who forsake any other relationship when called upon to follow after Jesus will obtain eternal life! Such people do not follow Jesus in order to earn their salvation: they follow Jesus because Jesus has delivered
them from sin and death, and has called them to obedient faith (Romans 6)
This will mean that many great ones will be humbled, and humble people will be exalted!
[edit on 12-1-2009 by John Matrix]
reply to post by Simplynoone
That bolded part is a very good point.
I've been thinking about all this "what I have done/accomplished" being bandied about as it relates to the book of Daniel.
I consider that the anointed are the priests and kings of the Lord God, and the book of Revelation supports my view.
In the book of Daniel, it is written: "You, O king, are the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, the strength and the glory; (verse 2:3)
Then later into Daniel, chapter 4, the King has another dream, which Daniel interprets and a very important point is made while he does the interpretation: that the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind and bestows it (the kingdom) on whomever He wishes. (part of verse 25)
the fulfillment of the prophecy takes place:
"The king reflected and said, 'Is this not Babylon the great, which I myself have built as a royal residence by the might of my power and for the glory of my majesty?'
"While the word was in the king's mouth, a voice came from heaven, saying, 'King Nebuchadnezzar, to you it is declared: sovereignty has been removed from you, verses 30 and 31
I would recommend for anyone who has eyes to see whom believe in what the I has done, to read Daniel, chapter 4 and take to heart the last verse.
The I doesn't do anything, but it is God who gives. As that is the truth, God can also take away.
So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
That bolded part is a very good point.
I've been thinking about all this "what I have done/accomplished" being bandied about as it relates to the book of Daniel.
I consider that the anointed are the priests and kings of the Lord God, and the book of Revelation supports my view.
In the book of Daniel, it is written: "You, O king, are the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, the strength and the glory; (verse 2:3)
Then later into Daniel, chapter 4, the King has another dream, which Daniel interprets and a very important point is made while he does the interpretation: that the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind and bestows it (the kingdom) on whomever He wishes. (part of verse 25)
the fulfillment of the prophecy takes place:
"The king reflected and said, 'Is this not Babylon the great, which I myself have built as a royal residence by the might of my power and for the glory of my majesty?'
"While the word was in the king's mouth, a voice came from heaven, saying, 'King Nebuchadnezzar, to you it is declared: sovereignty has been removed from you, verses 30 and 31
I would recommend for anyone who has eyes to see whom believe in what the I has done, to read Daniel, chapter 4 and take to heart the last verse.
The I doesn't do anything, but it is God who gives. As that is the truth, God can also take away.
reply to post by L.I.B.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Exd 15:13 Thou in thy mercy hast led forth the people [which] thou hast redeemed: thou hast guided [them] in thy strength unto thy holy habitation.
I was looking up redeemed ..LOOK WHAT I FOUND <
Isa 63:4 For the day of vengeance [is] in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
Isa 63:5 And I looked, and [there was] none to help; and I wondered that [there was] none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.
Isa 63:6 And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.
Isa 63:7 I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, [and] the praises of the LORD, according to all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses.
Isa 63:8 For he said, Surely they [are] my people, children [that] will not lie: so he was their Saviour.
Isa 63:9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
((((((((((((WHO IS THE ANGEL OF HIS PRESENCE ? JESUS))))))))))
Isa 63:10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, [and] he fought against them.
Isa 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, [and] his people, [saying], Where [is] he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where [is] he that put his holy Spirit within him?
Isa 63:12 That led [them] by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name?
((((((((((WHO IS HIS GLORIOUS ARM ? JESUS )))))))))))))))))
Isa 59:12 For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions [are] with us; and [as for] our iniquities, we know them;
Isa 59:13 In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.
Isa 59:14 And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.
Isa 59:15 Yea, truth faileth; and he [that] departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw [it], and it displeased him that [there was] no judgment.
Isa 59:16 And he saw that [there was] no man, and wondered that [there was] no intercessor: therefore his ARM brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.
Isa 59:17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance [for] clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.
Isa 59:18 According to [their] deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence.
Isa 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.
Isa 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
(((((((((((((WHO IS THE REDEEMER ?)))) JESUS >>>
Jhn 12:28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, [saying], I have both glorified [it], and will glorify [it] again.
Jhn 12:29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard [it], said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.
Jhn 12:30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
Jhn 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
Jhn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.
Jhn 12:33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.
Jhn 12:34 The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man?
Jhn 12:35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.
Jhn 12:36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
Jhn 12:37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
Jhn 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the ARM OF THE LORD been revealed?
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Exd 15:13 Thou in thy mercy hast led forth the people [which] thou hast redeemed: thou hast guided [them] in thy strength unto thy holy habitation.
I was looking up redeemed ..LOOK WHAT I FOUND <
Isa 63:4 For the day of vengeance [is] in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
Isa 63:5 And I looked, and [there was] none to help; and I wondered that [there was] none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.
Isa 63:6 And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.
Isa 63:7 I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, [and] the praises of the LORD, according to all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses.
Isa 63:8 For he said, Surely they [are] my people, children [that] will not lie: so he was their Saviour.
Isa 63:9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
((((((((((((WHO IS THE ANGEL OF HIS PRESENCE ? JESUS))))))))))
Isa 63:10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, [and] he fought against them.
Isa 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, [and] his people, [saying], Where [is] he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where [is] he that put his holy Spirit within him?
Isa 63:12 That led [them] by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name?
((((((((((WHO IS HIS GLORIOUS ARM ? JESUS )))))))))))))))))
Isa 59:12 For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions [are] with us; and [as for] our iniquities, we know them;
Isa 59:13 In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.
Isa 59:14 And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.
Isa 59:15 Yea, truth faileth; and he [that] departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw [it], and it displeased him that [there was] no judgment.
Isa 59:16 And he saw that [there was] no man, and wondered that [there was] no intercessor: therefore his ARM brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.
Isa 59:17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance [for] clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.
Isa 59:18 According to [their] deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence.
Isa 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.
Isa 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
(((((((((((((WHO IS THE REDEEMER ?)))) JESUS >>>
Jhn 12:28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, [saying], I have both glorified [it], and will glorify [it] again.
Jhn 12:29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard [it], said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.
Jhn 12:30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
Jhn 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
Jhn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.
Jhn 12:33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.
Jhn 12:34 The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man?
Jhn 12:35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.
Jhn 12:36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
Jhn 12:37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
Jhn 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the ARM OF THE LORD been revealed?
reply to post by Simplynoone
Hi,
I enjoy doing a single word search and then reading all the scriptures concerning that one word. Then too, I read the scriptures around them. Quite a revealing study when that is done.
In Genesis we read how God separated the waters from the "dry" land. The waters of course being those who are buffeted about by the reasoning of emotion and the dry land being those who have the love of God to reason with... that is: the mind of Christ.
Note in the above passage how it is written about islands... those who stand on their own... being an authority unto themselves and not recognizing the authority of others and God's authority too.
Interesting isn't it?
Hi,
I enjoy doing a single word search and then reading all the scriptures concerning that one word. Then too, I read the scriptures around them. Quite a revealing study when that is done.
Isa 59:18 According to [their] deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence.
In Genesis we read how God separated the waters from the "dry" land. The waters of course being those who are buffeted about by the reasoning of emotion and the dry land being those who have the love of God to reason with... that is: the mind of Christ.
Note in the above passage how it is written about islands... those who stand on their own... being an authority unto themselves and not recognizing the authority of others and God's authority too.
Interesting isn't it?
Originally posted by L.I.B.
reply to post by Simplynoone
Hi,
I enjoy doing a single word search and then reading all the scriptures concerning that one word. Then too, I read the scriptures around them. Quite a revealing study when that is done.
Isa 59:18 According to [their] deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence.
In Genesis we read how God separated the waters from the "dry" land. The waters of course being those who are buffeted about by the reasoning of emotion and the dry land being those who have the love of God to reason with... that is: the mind of Christ.
Note in the above passage how it is written about islands... those who stand on their own... being an authority unto themselves and not recognizing the authority of others and God's authority too.
Interesting isn't it?
Yes interesting indeed .
My mother when she was alive and I went through the entire Genesis account looking up every word just about in the Concordance ...And we could have spent eons in that one book alone actually we spent days on just the first chapter ..........so much is in the bible to be uncovered that it is amazing really .......Just like the bible says ..even the things that Jesus did if they wrote it all down the world would not even be able to contain the amount of books it would have taken to write it all in ...I believe the same could be said about the entire OT as well ....
Jhn 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
reply to post by justamomma
I am not sure that I can prove you wrong because we only have our opinions about the truth that has been revealed to us. Having said that, here is my thoughts.
I believe the OT was written to bring the Jews the law concerning Gods thoughts. They could not keep the law because of their fallen nature. So a provision had to be made to make it possible. This brought Jesus, who preached to them from their scripture. He taught them to realize that sin had to be dealt with from the inside before they could be clean on the outside. It was their thoughts that caused their error. Sin is the transgression of the law.Jesus also stated that no man can come to the Father but through Him. But how can one come to the Father when Jesus was still alive? The Father is spirit and we were fallen flesh. So when Jesus died and rose, he became the mediater for us,for as many as believe. I think Paul understood this concept, since he was well versed in scripture (OT). I think Paul spoke on spiritual aspects that people even today don't fully grasp because they are spiritualy discerned. I struggle too with some of what Paul spoke on, but when I allow the Holy Spirit to guide me into all truth, I learn and realize the truth in Pauls words. Was Paul perfect? No. But I believe he had the same spirit of God in him that I do and that Spirit taught him aspects of God that would make me jealous, because I haven't attained it yet. Paul was simply another man learning from God. He made mistakes just as old testament prophets did. But I don't think that God would allow me to go on believing a lie that I can be saved from my sinful nature and be restored back to Him.
Sorry about the rambling, and I hope it was not confusing.
[edit on 12-1-2009 by One4truth]
I am not sure that I can prove you wrong because we only have our opinions about the truth that has been revealed to us. Having said that, here is my thoughts.
I believe the OT was written to bring the Jews the law concerning Gods thoughts. They could not keep the law because of their fallen nature. So a provision had to be made to make it possible. This brought Jesus, who preached to them from their scripture. He taught them to realize that sin had to be dealt with from the inside before they could be clean on the outside. It was their thoughts that caused their error. Sin is the transgression of the law.Jesus also stated that no man can come to the Father but through Him. But how can one come to the Father when Jesus was still alive? The Father is spirit and we were fallen flesh. So when Jesus died and rose, he became the mediater for us,for as many as believe. I think Paul understood this concept, since he was well versed in scripture (OT). I think Paul spoke on spiritual aspects that people even today don't fully grasp because they are spiritualy discerned. I struggle too with some of what Paul spoke on, but when I allow the Holy Spirit to guide me into all truth, I learn and realize the truth in Pauls words. Was Paul perfect? No. But I believe he had the same spirit of God in him that I do and that Spirit taught him aspects of God that would make me jealous, because I haven't attained it yet. Paul was simply another man learning from God. He made mistakes just as old testament prophets did. But I don't think that God would allow me to go on believing a lie that I can be saved from my sinful nature and be restored back to Him.
Sorry about the rambling, and I hope it was not confusing.
[edit on 12-1-2009 by One4truth]
reply to post by badmedia
I add this comment about Salvation by Faith plus works(Jesus,James, Peter) vs. Salvation by Faith alone(Paul).
Does Paul Contradict Jesus, James, and Peter. We need to keep in mind that there is a Pre Salvation message and Post Salvation teachings.
In reality, Paul is not in disagree at all. The problem is people's perception of the relationship between faith and works.
Paul dogmatically says that justification is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9)
James appears to be saying that justification is by faith plus works.
But LOOK at what James is talking about. James is refuting the belief that a person can have faith without producing any good works (James 2:17-18). James is emphasizing the point that genuine faith in Christ will produce a changed life and good works (James 2:20-26). James is not saying that justification is by faith plus works, but rather that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his life. If a person claims to be a believer, but has no good works in his life – then he likely does not have genuine faith in Christ (James 2:14, 17, 20, 26).
James is telling us how we can examine ourselves to see if we truly are in the "Faith" (after we are saved)or whether our faith is properly focused on our Divine Calling.
It's not what we do outwardly that proves our Faith in God, it is the inner transformation of our hearts that proves where, or in whom, or in what we have placed out Faith. Anyone that is not producing Divine Characteristics in their lives would do well to consider what they have placed their Faith in!! We are made Partakers of the Divine Nature upon receiving Salvation, therefore we should be moved by the Spirit to put on the Full Armor of God, which means nothing else but adding to our Faith His Virtues(His Divine Nature) which we are made partakers in. As our hearts are transformed by the Divine Nature of Christ, our outward behavior toward others will also change. So Faith alone is all that is required of us for Salvation, and the "works" are the inevitable consequences of our Salvation.
Paul says the same thing in his writings. The good fruit(Divine Virtues) believers should have in their lives is listed in Galatians 5:22-23. Immediately after telling us that we are saved by faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8-9), Paul informs us that we were created to do good works (Ephesians 2:10). Paul expects just as much of a changed life as James does, “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come” (2 Corinthians 5:17)!
So, James and Paul do not disagree on their teaching on salvation. They approach the same subject from different perspectives. Paul simply emphasized that justification is by faith alone(for salvation) while James put emphasis on the fact that faith in Christ produces good works(A test for One's OWN Heart to see if One is truly Saved).
So, Works of righteousness are the "consequence" of True Faith in Christ, but Works are not required for one to be Justified and receive Salvation.
True Faith results in the Transformation and Renewal of the Heart and Mind of the Believer through the act of partaking in the Divine Nature of God.
I add this comment about Salvation by Faith plus works(Jesus,James, Peter) vs. Salvation by Faith alone(Paul).
Does Paul Contradict Jesus, James, and Peter. We need to keep in mind that there is a Pre Salvation message and Post Salvation teachings.
In reality, Paul is not in disagree at all. The problem is people's perception of the relationship between faith and works.
Paul dogmatically says that justification is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9)
James appears to be saying that justification is by faith plus works.
But LOOK at what James is talking about. James is refuting the belief that a person can have faith without producing any good works (James 2:17-18). James is emphasizing the point that genuine faith in Christ will produce a changed life and good works (James 2:20-26). James is not saying that justification is by faith plus works, but rather that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his life. If a person claims to be a believer, but has no good works in his life – then he likely does not have genuine faith in Christ (James 2:14, 17, 20, 26).
James is telling us how we can examine ourselves to see if we truly are in the "Faith" (after we are saved)or whether our faith is properly focused on our Divine Calling.
It's not what we do outwardly that proves our Faith in God, it is the inner transformation of our hearts that proves where, or in whom, or in what we have placed out Faith. Anyone that is not producing Divine Characteristics in their lives would do well to consider what they have placed their Faith in!! We are made Partakers of the Divine Nature upon receiving Salvation, therefore we should be moved by the Spirit to put on the Full Armor of God, which means nothing else but adding to our Faith His Virtues(His Divine Nature) which we are made partakers in. As our hearts are transformed by the Divine Nature of Christ, our outward behavior toward others will also change. So Faith alone is all that is required of us for Salvation, and the "works" are the inevitable consequences of our Salvation.
Paul says the same thing in his writings. The good fruit(Divine Virtues) believers should have in their lives is listed in Galatians 5:22-23. Immediately after telling us that we are saved by faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8-9), Paul informs us that we were created to do good works (Ephesians 2:10). Paul expects just as much of a changed life as James does, “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come” (2 Corinthians 5:17)!
So, James and Paul do not disagree on their teaching on salvation. They approach the same subject from different perspectives. Paul simply emphasized that justification is by faith alone(for salvation) while James put emphasis on the fact that faith in Christ produces good works(A test for One's OWN Heart to see if One is truly Saved).
So, Works of righteousness are the "consequence" of True Faith in Christ, but Works are not required for one to be Justified and receive Salvation.
True Faith results in the Transformation and Renewal of the Heart and Mind of the Believer through the act of partaking in the Divine Nature of God.
Awesome post John ..
Jam 2:14 What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jam 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jam 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit?
((((((((((((((THIS MAN HAD FAITH >>>and yet his ACTION showed otherwise ........He SENT THEM AWAY HUNGRY >..)))))) was this man justified just because he has faith ? NO >>>>>his faith was of NONE EFFECT ...(DEAD FAITH) ..........
Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.
Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jam 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jam 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way?
Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
There was ACTIONS (Works) that followed their faith .....with each person mentioned above ..
And in Hebrew 11 which mentions many many more who HAD FAITH with an ACTION BEHIND IT (Works) (which is evidence of that faith being genuine).........
Jam 2:14 What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jam 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jam 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit?
((((((((((((((THIS MAN HAD FAITH >>>and yet his ACTION showed otherwise ........He SENT THEM AWAY HUNGRY >..)))))) was this man justified just because he has faith ? NO >>>>>his faith was of NONE EFFECT ...(DEAD FAITH) ..........
Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.
Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jam 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jam 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way?
Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
There was ACTIONS (Works) that followed their faith .....with each person mentioned above ..
And in Hebrew 11 which mentions many many more who HAD FAITH with an ACTION BEHIND IT (Works) (which is evidence of that faith being genuine).........
reply to post by justamomma
What you said is true. Paul has indeed invented a New Messiah and many Christians have fallen for it. His teachings have brought people out of light into the darkness, yet the people thought that they are being rightly guided.
Paul has distorted the true message of Jesus which is to serve and worship God alone as the path to Eternal Life. He has established idolatry in the hearts of the people by making Jesus a partner in God's sovereignty, by calling him the son of God and by teaching people that salvation can only come through him. The Holy Quran, God's Final Testament to mankind bears witness of the truthfulness of Jesus, and the guile and deceit of Paul.
I spake unto them only that which Thou commandedst me, (saying): Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when Thou tookest me Thou wast the Watcher over them. Thou art witness over all things.
( Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #117)
He made obsolete the Law of Moses that Jesus and his disciples follow and teaching an all together New Doctrine of salvation through the worship of Jesus Christ. Paul's Messiah is the False Messiah and there is no warrant of this on the Torah and Jesus' True Gospel and in the Holy Qur'an.
The likeness of those who are entrusted with the Law of Moses, yet apply it not, is as the likeness of the ass carrying books. Wretched is the likeness of folk who deny the revelations of Allah. And Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
( Al-Jumua, Chapter #62, Verse #5)
O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.
( An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)
And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be Ye glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden.
( Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #116)
And when Jesus son of Mary said: O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who cometh after me, whose name is Ahmad ( The Praised One). Yet when he hath come unto them with clear proofs, they say: This is mere magic.
( As-Saff, Chapter #61, Verse #6)
ALL of the Prophets that God has sent has preached only one message and it is this; " There is ONLY ONE GOD " any Prophet who comes with a message other than this is a False Prophet.
Jesus is NOT a false Prophet. Paul's Jesus is. The Jesus that Paul preached is not the Jesus of the Old Testament and not the Jesus of the True Gospel and not the Jesus of the Holy Quran. Paul's Jesus is an invented lie against God, who begets not nor was begotten.
Allah (Himself) is witness that there is no god save Him. And the angels and the men of learning (too are witness). Maintaining His creation in justice, there is no Allah save Him the Almighty, the Wise.
( Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #18)
Say: O People of the Scripture! Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partner unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for lords beside Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto Him).
( Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #64)
Lo! We did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and a light, by which the prophets who surrendered (unto Allah) judged the Jews, and the rabbis and the priests (judged) by such of Allah's Scripture as they were bidden to observe, and thereunto were they witnesses. So fear not mankind, but fear Me. And barter not My revelations for a little gain. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are disbelievers.
( Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #44)
All the Prophets who have surrendered to God ( Muslims) judged by the Torah and the Gospel and the Last Prophet sent unto mankind was ordered to judge by the Holy Quran which is the Mother of all revealed Scriptures and the guardian of it. God's people are ordered to turn into the Holy Quran, the LIGHT to all mankind for anything in the Scriptures wherein they differed and has appointed the Muslim people as a Middle Nation to be witness against mankind who has corrupted God's scriptures.
And (bethink you of) the day when We raise in every nation a witness against them of their own folk, and We bring thee (Muhammad) as a witness against these. And We reveal the Scripture unto thee as an exposition of all things, and a guidance and a mercy and good tidings for those who have surrendered (to Allah).
( An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #89)
And strive for Allah with the endeavour which is His right. He hath chosen you and hath not laid upon you in religion any hardship; the faith of your father Abraham (is yours). He hath named you Muslims of old time and in this (Scripture), that the messenger may be a witness against you, and that ye may be witnesses against mankind. So establish worship, pay the poor-due, and hold fast to Allah. He is your Protecting friend. A blessed Patron and a blessed Helper!
( Al-Hajj, Chapter #22, Verse #78)
According to the Holy Quran, God has named His followers of the seed of Abraham Muslims ( people who have surrendered to God's will and guidance), and who is better than God as a witness?
We shall show them Our portents on the horizons and within themselves until it will be manifest unto them that it is the Truth. Doth not thy Lord suffice, since He is witness over all things?
( Fussilat, Chapter #41, Verse #53)
Good job, Justamomma, if you already believe that there is ONLY ONE GOD, and that Jesus is not God nor son of God then you are standing on the path of Truth and may God guide your heart into all the Truth.
Peace!
What you said is true. Paul has indeed invented a New Messiah and many Christians have fallen for it. His teachings have brought people out of light into the darkness, yet the people thought that they are being rightly guided.
Paul has distorted the true message of Jesus which is to serve and worship God alone as the path to Eternal Life. He has established idolatry in the hearts of the people by making Jesus a partner in God's sovereignty, by calling him the son of God and by teaching people that salvation can only come through him. The Holy Quran, God's Final Testament to mankind bears witness of the truthfulness of Jesus, and the guile and deceit of Paul.
I spake unto them only that which Thou commandedst me, (saying): Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when Thou tookest me Thou wast the Watcher over them. Thou art witness over all things.
( Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #117)
He made obsolete the Law of Moses that Jesus and his disciples follow and teaching an all together New Doctrine of salvation through the worship of Jesus Christ. Paul's Messiah is the False Messiah and there is no warrant of this on the Torah and Jesus' True Gospel and in the Holy Qur'an.
The likeness of those who are entrusted with the Law of Moses, yet apply it not, is as the likeness of the ass carrying books. Wretched is the likeness of folk who deny the revelations of Allah. And Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
( Al-Jumua, Chapter #62, Verse #5)
O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.
( An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)
And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be Ye glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden.
( Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #116)
And when Jesus son of Mary said: O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who cometh after me, whose name is Ahmad ( The Praised One). Yet when he hath come unto them with clear proofs, they say: This is mere magic.
( As-Saff, Chapter #61, Verse #6)
ALL of the Prophets that God has sent has preached only one message and it is this; " There is ONLY ONE GOD " any Prophet who comes with a message other than this is a False Prophet.
Jesus is NOT a false Prophet. Paul's Jesus is. The Jesus that Paul preached is not the Jesus of the Old Testament and not the Jesus of the True Gospel and not the Jesus of the Holy Quran. Paul's Jesus is an invented lie against God, who begets not nor was begotten.
Allah (Himself) is witness that there is no god save Him. And the angels and the men of learning (too are witness). Maintaining His creation in justice, there is no Allah save Him the Almighty, the Wise.
( Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #18)
Say: O People of the Scripture! Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partner unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for lords beside Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto Him).
( Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #64)
Lo! We did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and a light, by which the prophets who surrendered (unto Allah) judged the Jews, and the rabbis and the priests (judged) by such of Allah's Scripture as they were bidden to observe, and thereunto were they witnesses. So fear not mankind, but fear Me. And barter not My revelations for a little gain. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are disbelievers.
( Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #44)
All the Prophets who have surrendered to God ( Muslims) judged by the Torah and the Gospel and the Last Prophet sent unto mankind was ordered to judge by the Holy Quran which is the Mother of all revealed Scriptures and the guardian of it. God's people are ordered to turn into the Holy Quran, the LIGHT to all mankind for anything in the Scriptures wherein they differed and has appointed the Muslim people as a Middle Nation to be witness against mankind who has corrupted God's scriptures.
And (bethink you of) the day when We raise in every nation a witness against them of their own folk, and We bring thee (Muhammad) as a witness against these. And We reveal the Scripture unto thee as an exposition of all things, and a guidance and a mercy and good tidings for those who have surrendered (to Allah).
( An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #89)
And strive for Allah with the endeavour which is His right. He hath chosen you and hath not laid upon you in religion any hardship; the faith of your father Abraham (is yours). He hath named you Muslims of old time and in this (Scripture), that the messenger may be a witness against you, and that ye may be witnesses against mankind. So establish worship, pay the poor-due, and hold fast to Allah. He is your Protecting friend. A blessed Patron and a blessed Helper!
( Al-Hajj, Chapter #22, Verse #78)
According to the Holy Quran, God has named His followers of the seed of Abraham Muslims ( people who have surrendered to God's will and guidance), and who is better than God as a witness?
We shall show them Our portents on the horizons and within themselves until it will be manifest unto them that it is the Truth. Doth not thy Lord suffice, since He is witness over all things?
( Fussilat, Chapter #41, Verse #53)
Good job, Justamomma, if you already believe that there is ONLY ONE GOD, and that Jesus is not God nor son of God then you are standing on the path of Truth and may God guide your heart into all the Truth.
Peace!
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