'Safest' seat remarks gets Muslim family kicked off plane

Originally posted by fatdad
i for one would feel uneasy to have muslims with women dressed from head to toe like black ninjas talking about the best place on the plane to survive an explosion\ crash... the same very plane im sitting on with my family...

[edit on 2-1-2009 by fatdad]

WTF? Do you think there is anywhere safe to survive an explosion or crash?

And do you actualy think they would sit all their family on that flight, with plans to crash it, and talk about the "safest" seats? What is wrong with you people? Never heard of common sense?

Originally posted by dooper
Well, let's see. I didn't see Christians flying planes into buildings.

I didn't see Sikhs flying planes into buildings.

Nor Wiccans, nor Taoists.

Muslims.

So who would I look to and be naturally suspicious?

This isn't all that hard to understand.

Who was the male adult in the Belway sniper team.

Oh. That's right John Muhammed.

But don't anyone worry about Muslims. They are a peaceful religion.

Until you turn on the TV or read the papers.

You didn't see Muslims flying planes into buildings either.

The FBI just told everyone that's who it was.

reply to post by neformore

and what about the White Americans who blew up the buildings in Oklahoma City? I guess we should keep White Americans from entering government buildings if they seem suspicious.

reply to post by dangleb3rry


Do you feel what you have read and been lead to believe is fact? Don't get me wrong, I seem to have close to the same beliefs as yourself however I cannot talk of them as if they are fact.

So for the above reason, and other acts committed in my lifetime by people claiming to be true Muslims, my cautiousness remains. It's by far the only religion that in my lifetime has had so many claimed followers commit atrocities.

Isn't it then fair cautiousness to focus my concern, and my natural animal instinct to then weigh up dangers, to then consider Muslims with a higher probability for concern?

[edit on 2-1-2009 by MrAnonUK]

i could be talking about the safest seat and i wouldn't get kicked off a flight because i am not Muslim. goes to show you that Americans live in this fear that if a Muslim talks about an airplane and safety HE MUST BE A terrorist, it doesn't matter that he could be 4 year generation American him self who works for Boeing making airplanes safe, i thought America was ready for a change, i thought thats why we elected our First Mix president.

reply to post by Retseh


Terrorism has many facets. I suggest you start looking into institutions such as the School for the America's as well as the US' intimate involvement in Central and South America, utilizing Torture, death squads, and rendition tactics.

ARMY COMMANDERS FIRED FOR KILLINGS RECEIVED U.S. TRAINING AND ASSISTANCE

Like rendition, disappearances can't be carried out without a synchronized, sophisticated and increasingly transnational infrastructure, which, back in the 1960s and 1970s, the United States was instrumental in creating. In fact, it was in Latin America that the CIA and U.S. military intelligence agents, working closely with local allies, first helped put into place the unholy trinity of government-sponsored terrorism now on display in Iraq and elsewhere: death squads, disappearances and torture.

Death Squads: Clandestine paramilitary units, nominally independent from established security agencies yet able to draw on the intelligence and logistical capabilities of those agencies, are the building blocks for any effective system of state terror. In Latin America, Washington supported the assassination of suspected leftists at least as early as 1954, when the CIA successfully carried out a coup in Guatemala, which ousted a democratically elected president. But its first sustained sponsorship of death squads started in 1962 in Colombia, a country that then vied with Vietnam for Washington's attention.

Source:
America's trinity of terrorism

You conservative trolls need to be challenged when you have no will or desire to learn.

[edit on 2-1-2009 by InSpiteOf]

Paranoia or not.....the perception is that the US was attacked by muslim extremist who flew planes into buildings

The perception is accepted a truth by Americans (maybe not all, but, I'll bet the majority). Go ask your average citizen in any town and see what you get as an answer.

Whether any of you like it or not people with a middle east background/look/religion....etc will be under high suspicion until we get past the events that put us in the situation we are in now.

I didn't make the rules. I didn't set the stereotype. By flying planes into buildings, the attackers have set the stack of dominoes falling....right or wrong.

Until I see 100% proof that the US government staged the World Trade Tower attacks, I will believe Muslim Extremist (not all Muslims, in fact a small, very small percentage) attacked the world trade towers.

I will say that about the next time some person stands up on a US flight and says they are taking over and have a bomb, they will have a few angry passengers ripping them apart limb by limb.



[edit on 2-1-2009 by wdkirk]

reply to post by MrAnonUK


I understand what you are saying but..... I have lived in Wakefield in SW Yorks in a muslim majority area, in a street that was 90% muslim, I m a white male, former soldier of 6 years and not one time did i feel a threat of any kind. The only thing i noticed was warmth and friendliness by the Muslims in that area.
Then i lived in London, Surrounded by Muslims, Once again never a single threat.

Now i live in Liverpool where there is literally gangs running the streets, Where a trip to the store can get you mugged or worse, The guy who owned the car -wash up the road was shot at 2.30 pm in the afternoon outside his work, My mom was punched off her bike in the middle of town on a Saturday morning and had her bike stolen, My sisters boyfriend was shot by a rival security firm and in the same incident his friend and work partner had a full magazine of ammunition emptied into him, Now here is a big threat...... By who? WHITES!!!!!!

[edit on 2-1-2009 by dangleb3rry]

reply to post by RedGolem


I was just gonna say that. I try to gun for the safest seat.
Plus, if you read the emergency landing card, and make note of where the ER doors are and study how they work, your chances of surviving a crash goes up 25% or more.

And I do this each and every single time I am on a plane.

I make note of who is sitting where. Such as the person who has the glorious too big carryon that probably won't leave without it. The slow or heavy person who might not get out of the way, etc.

So does that make me a terrorist? NO. Just someone who ups their chances for survival.

The ridiculous part about that is if indeed that these people were terrorists, if they were planning on any kind of attack, they would thought nothing about giving up their lives for the cause, and would not of been looking for the safest seat in the house.

And if they knew of any event at all, they would not of been on the plane.

Shame on these sheeple for soaking up all the paranoia this administration and media have caused, and for thinking that anyone of Middle Eastern decent is a potential terrorist.
How sad.
It is now 2009 we should be more evolved then this.

www.washingtonpost.com...
Washington Post - 9/16/01 - 2nd Witness Arrested; 25 Held for Questioning
Two of 19 suspects named by the FBI, Saeed Alghamdi and Ahmed Alghamdi, have the same names as men listed at a housing facility for foreign military trainees at Pensacola. Two others, Hamza Alghamdi and Ahmed Alnami, have names similar to individuals listed in public records as using the same address inside the base. In addition, a man named Saeed Alghamdi graduated from the Defense Language Institute at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, while men with the same names as two other hijackers, Mohamed Atta and Abdulaziz Alomari, appear as graduates of the U.S. International Officers School at Maxwell Air Force Base, Ala., and the Aerospace Medical School at Brooks Air Force Base in San Antonio, respectively.

order Mohamed Atta and the Venice Flying Circus, the real story of the Hijackers
2
news.bbc.co.uk...
BBC - 9/23/01 - Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
And there are suggestions that another suspect, Khalid Al Midhar, may also be alive.

www.azstarnet.com...
Online Service of the Arizona Daily Star - 9/28/01 - Hijack suspect profiles
"An FBI notice to banks on Sept. 19 raised the possibility that Almihdhar might still be alive without speculating or explaining how that could be possible. "

www.cnn.com...
CNN - 9/28/01 - Details of hijacking suspects released
Khalid Almihdhar: there are reports he is still alive
3
news.bbc.co.uk...
BBC - 9/23/01 - Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well. Saudi Arabian pilot Waleed Al Shehri was one of five men that the FBI said had deliberately crashed American Airlines flight 11 into the World Trade Centre on 11 September. Now he is protesting his innocence from Casablanca, Morocco.
4
news.independent.co.uk...
'Suicide hijacker' is an airline pilot alive and well in Jeddah - 9/17/01
A man named by the US Department of Justice as a suicide hijacker of American Airlines flight 11 ­ the first airliner to smash into the World Trade Centre ­ is very much alive and living in Jeddah. Abdulrahman al-Omari, a pilot with Saudi Airlines, was astonished to find himself accused of hijacking ­ as well as being dead ­ and has visited the US consulate in Jeddah to demand an explanation.

abcnews.go.com...
ABC - Who Did It? FBI Links Names to Terror Attacks
"The name [listed by the FBI] is my name and the birth date is the same as mine, but I am not the one who bombed the World Trade Center in New York," Abdulaziz Alomari told the London-based Asharq Al-Awsat newspaper.

www.portal.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2001/09/23/widen23.xml
Revealed: the men with stolen identities - 9/23/01
Mr Al-Omari, who was accused of hijacking the American Airlines plane that smashed into the the World Trade Centre's north tower, said that he was at his desk at the Saudi telecommunications authority in Riyadh when the attacks took place.

news.bbc.co.uk...
BBC - 9/23/01 - Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
Abdulaziz Al Omari, another of the Flight 11 hijack suspects, has also been quoted in Arab news reports. He says he is an engineer with Saudi Telecoms, and that he lost his passport while studying in Denver.
5
www.portal.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2001/09/23/widen23.xml
Revealed: the men with stolen identities - 9/23/01
The Saudi Airlines pilot, Saeed Al-Ghamdi, 25, and Abdulaziz Al-Omari, an engineer from Riyadh, are furious that the hijackers' "personal details" - including name, place, date of birth and occupation - matched their own.

news.bbc.co.uk...
BBC - 9/23/01 - Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
Meanwhile, Asharq Al Awsat newspaper, a London-based Arabic daily, says it has interviewed Saeed Alghamdi. He was listed by the FBI as a hijacker in the United flight that crashed in Pennsylvania.
6
www.portal.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2001/09/23/widen23.xml
Revealed: the men with stolen identities - 9/23/01
Mr Al-Hamzi is 26 and had just returned to work at a petrochemical complex in the industrial eastern city of Yanbou after a holiday in Saudi Arabia when the hijackers struck. He was accused of hijacking the American Airlines Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon. He said: "I have never been to the United States and have not been out of Saudi Arabia in the past two years." The FBI described him as 21 and said that his possible residences were Fort Lee or Wayne, both in New Jersey.
7
www.portal.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2001/09/23/widen23.xml
Revealed: the men with stolen identities - 9/23/01
Mr Al-Nami, 33, from Riyadh, an administrative supervisor with Saudi Arabian Airlines, said that he was in Riyadh when the terrorists struck. He said: "I'm still alive, as you can see. I was shocked to see my name mentioned by the American Justice Department. I had never even heard of Pennsylvania where the plane I was supposed to have hijacked."
8
www.cnn.com...
CNN - FBI: Early probe results show 18 hijackers took part 9/13/01
Based on information from multiple law enforcement sources, CNN reported that Adnan Bukhari and Ameer Bukhari of Vero Beach Florida, were suspected to be two of the pilots who crashed planes into the World Trade Center. CNN later learned that Adnan Bukhari is still in Florida, where he was questioned by the FBI. We are sorry for the misinformation. A federal law enforcement source now tells CNN that Bukhari passed an FBI polygraph and is not considered a suspect. Through his attorney, Bukhari says that he is helping authorities. Ameer Bukhari died in a small plane crash last year.

Some of those involved in the plot left suicide notes, but they are not believed to have been the hijackers, a government source told The Associated Press. It was unclear whether those who left the notes actually killed themselves.
9
Cairo Times - 9/27/01
He also claimed that his son had called him two days after the attack, and described it as "a normal conversation." But he snarled when asked to give further details. Asked what country Muhammad had called from, he said, "The name of the country isn't written on the phone." Asked where Muhammad was now, he said, "Ask Mossad."

order Mohamed Atta and the Venice Flying Circus, the real story of the Hijackers
Video shows Atta was not suicidal, as he pays bills and returns rentals.
10
www.latimes.com...
Los Angeles Times - 9/21/01
A man by the same name is a pilot, whose father is a Saudi diplomat in Bombay. "I personally talked to both father and son today," said Gaafar Allagany, head of the Saudi Embassy's information center.
11
Saudi Gazette 9/18/01 and The Khaleej Times 9/20/01
Marwan al-Shehhi is still alive in Morocco
12
www.cbsnews.com...
CBS - Bin Laden Names Hijackers On Tape Dec. 20, 2001
He would identify only three: Nawaq Alhamzi, Salem Alhamzi and Wail Alshehri. Alshehri was on American Airlines flight 11, one of the planes that hit the Twin Towers at the World Trade Center in New York; Alhamzi and Alhamzi were on American Airlines flight 77, which hit the Pentagon.

Bin Laden's "smoking gun" video names living, uninvolved people? This makes no sense!
This is just the beginning, this "confession" video is full of abnormalities.
13
news.bbc.co.uk...
BBC- The last moments of Flight 11
The FBI has named five hijackers on board Flight 11, whereas Ms Sweeney spotted only four. Also, the seat numbers she gave were different from those registered in the hijackers' names.
14
www.fbi.gov...
U.S. Department of Justice
Federal Bueau of Investigation - Hijackers
15
news.bbc.co.uk...
BBC - FBI probes hijackers' identities 9/21/01
It believes that some of the hijackers used false identities, possibly even names of people who are still alive, which could significantly complicate the manhunt.
16
www.sun-sentinel.com...
Los Angeles Times - 10/23/01 - Friends of terror suspect say allegations make no sense
By Carol J. Williams Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
...Ziad and Salim ... left Lebanon together April 4, 1996, at the age of 20, heading to the eastern German town of Greifswald in pursuit of both an education and a good time.

Jarrah and the other three men named by the FBI as hijackers...initially came to be on the list of 19 because they "have been identified as having 'Arabic' names

web.archive.org...
Boston Globe - Hijack suspect lived a life, or a lie - 9/25/01
Although a Brooklyn apartment lease from 1995-1996 bears Ziad Jarrah's name - and landlords there have identified his photograph - his family insists he was in Beirut at the time.

How was he in Brooklyn and Lebanon at the same time?

..two days before the hijacking, his nephew called and told the family he'd be coming home for a cousin's wedding in mid-September. "He said he had even bought a new suit for the occasion."

www.cnn.com...
CNN 8/1/02 - September 11 hijacker questioned in January 2001
The CIA suspected Ziad Jarrah had been in Afghanistan and wanted him questioned because of "his suspected involvement in terrorist activities," UAE sources said.

A CIA spokesman vigorously denied that the CIA knew anything about Jarrah before September 11 or had anything do with his questioning in Dubai.
17
The New Yorker - What Went Wrong
by Seymour Hersh - 10/1/01
Many of the investigators believe that some of the initial clues that were uncovered about the terrorists' identities and preparations, such as flight manuals, were meant to be found. A former high-level intelligence official told me, "Whatever trail was left was left deliberately--for the F.B.I. to chase."

In interviews over the past two weeks, a number of intelligence officials have raised questions about Osama bin Laden's capabilities. "This guy sits in a cave in Afghanistan and he's running this operation?" one C.I.A. official asked. "It's so huge. He couldn't have done it alone." A senior military officer told me that because of the visas and other documentation needed to infiltrate team members into the United States, a major foreign intelligence service might also have been involved.
18
www.washingtonpost.com...
Washington Post - 9/25/01 - Some Light Shed On Saudi Suspects - A12
Still, the father of Alghamdi told Al Watan that the picture provided by the FBI was not that of his son. "It has no resemblance to him at all," he said.
19
www.newsday.com...
Tracing Trail Of Hijackers - By Thomas Frank - 9/23/01
At Freeway Airport in Bowie, Md., 20 miles west of Washington, flight instructor Sheri Baxter instantly recognized the name of alleged hijacker Hani Hanjour when the FBI released a list of 19 suspects in the four hijackings. Hanjour, the only suspect on Flight 77 the FBI listed as a pilot, had come to the airport one month earlier seeking to rent a small plane.... However, when Baxter and fellow instructor Ben Conner took....Hanjour on three test runs during the second week of August, they found he had trouble controlling and landing the single-engine Cessna 172. .....chief flight instructor Marcel Bernard declined to rent him a plane without more lessons.

www.washingtonpost.com...
Washington Post - On Flight 77: 'Our Plane Is Being Hijacked' - 9/12/01 - Page A01
...the unidentified pilot executed a pivot so tight that it reminded observers of a fighter jet maneuver. The plane circled 270 degrees to the right to approach the Pentagon from the west, whereupon Flight 77 fell below radar level, vanishing from controllers' screens, the sources said.... Aviation sources said the plane was flown with extraordinary skill, making it highly likely that a trained pilot was at the helm... Someone even knew how to turn off the transponder, a move that is considerably less than obvious.
20
www.cbsnews.com...
CBS - Hijackers Lived With FBI Informant - Sept. 9, 2002
Two of the Sept. 11 hijackers who lived in San Diego in 2000 rented a room from a man who reportedly worked as an undercover FBI informant....the FBI informant prayed with them and even helped one open a bank account.

[edit on 2-1-2009 by dangleb3rry]

Originally posted by wdkirk


Until I see 100% proof that the US government staged the World Trade Tower attacks, I will believe Muslim Extremist (not all Muslims, in fact a small, very small percentage) attacked the world trade towers.

No one has 100% proof that it was any person of Arabic descent who took down the WTC buildings.

The only "proof" that we have is the mistake of taking AUTHORITY as the Truth.

The US AUTHORITIES have offered no proof whatsoever that Muslims hijacked anything.

Where is the 100% proof that the hijackers were who the US government claims them to be?

reply to post by sos37


This is the type of propoganda that stirs up these fears and stereotypes in the first place.

There are countries that are terrified as us and still consider us wild gun toting cowboys.

So lets switch around those news stories:

Two teens walk into a high school killing 12 students and a teacher, and injuring 23 others.

Toddler killed and incinerated by parents.

toddler killed by video game controller

father microwaves baby

Man throws toddler against wall and leaves dead in bed

babysitter puts toddler in a sleeping bag and throws him against a wall


If I were anyone else, I would be afraid of coming here!

But you see, those headlines that get through are not necessarily indicative of a country.

And no one should be judged on them. Unless you are looking for an excuse to be bigoted and afraid.

This whole thing is silly. If they were up to no good why on earth would they be worried about the "safest seats". Serious trouble means there are NO SAFE SEATS and a simple hijacking would mean they would be running around the aircraft, not worrying about their seat assignments.

Originally posted by dangleb3rry
reply to post by MrAnonUK

 

I understand what you are saying but.....
[edit on 2-1-2009 by dangleb3rry]

You said more than enough there for me, at least your willing to understand 'our' concerns, your views are in many ways the same as my own. I actually don't judge anybody due to appearances (at least try not too) or religion. I just feel I fully understand others being sceptical when in such situations as the post mentions.

It is a real shame as 100% of Muslims I have met in my lifetime have been perfectly reasonable people, It's a very very unfortunate (the sometimes OTT prejudice) situation. I cannot think anything other than people like yourself willing to step in the 'line of fire' are helping resolve and straighten at least a few people out by discouraging prejudice.

But on the subject of this thread I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, I feel it was a perfectly reasonable measure to take in an extremely difficult and delicate situation.


p.s. The part about you mum is sickening, we spend money on these wars when it should be spent on prisons for morons that stoop to such... (I'll stop here so I don't swear)

reply to post by MrAnonUK


Thanks... I hear you too. The whole world is upside down and inside out. I dont think it will ever stop.

reply to post by InSpiteOf



As predicted, your definition of American terrorism appears to based solely on our support of questionable regimes over the last 60 years and our training of their military.

That's lame even for your average anti-establishment stooge.

You are somehow trying to compare people who behead prisoners and fly planes into buildings packed with civilians, with countries who provide military and financial support to regimes who send out death squads to kill their (communist) political opponents.

I can't reason with that kind of twisted thinking, I doubt you'll ever learn the gulf of separation that exists between heinous acts and misguided acts. But if you honestly believe that the US is some great terrorist monster set to sow destruction and havoc on the world, then your salvation is beyond my meager powers of persuasion.

[edit on 2/1/09 by neformore]

reply to post by _Phoenix_

"We would see a terrorist attack every week?"

Let me clue you in. On the average, there are three to four Islamic religious murders around the world every single day.

If you wish, I'll give you the web site that documents each and every one. And you can go back for years and years.

Muslims. And by the way, they're still cutting off heads, just as their prophet instructed.

Yes. I have no love for anything Muslim. A larger threat to the world never existed.

Just out of curiosity does anyone that's afraid of this scary Muslim family who was talking about SAFETY take into account that fact that if these Muslims were evil suicidal hijackers, that safety wouldn't even be an issue for them?

Seriously think people think....