israel haters / anti semites please listen up

Originally posted by RaDios
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

Please tell me who your supplier is so I can get whatever it is you're smoking, snorting or shooting up...gimme some 'o dat rose-colored magic juice!

"There are diplomatic ways..." WHHHAAAAAATTTT?????!!!!?????!!!!! The only diplomacy that the Palestinians understand is the kind that involves exploding body parts. This has been a proven fact over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over............again and again and again and again!!!

The Palestinians seem to be involved in a cult of death. Their attacks are AIMED at civilians. Let me say that another way: Palestinians TARGET civilians. Now don't try to give me the sob story that the poor Palestinians don't have access to more sophisticated weaponry, so they are just trying to fight the evil oppressive Israel with what they have. BOLOGNA - You mean to tell me that the countries supplying Hamas with weapons don't have anything more 'sophisticated'??? Then what is the USA worried about? If all these terrorists have are a bunch of 'dumb' bombs that have a limited range - then the US has nothing to worry about - they can pack up their troops all over the globe and send them home - the war on terror is over! Unfortunately that is NOT the case. The Palestinians' purpose and goal is the utter destruction of Israel. They HAVE to play the 'underdog' role so that they can gain sympathy from the bleeding hearts of the world. They HAVE to be the oppressed; the ill equipped; the poor defenseless "freedom fighters'. This is also why they plant their war operations in the middle of civilian areas. They seem to enjoy civilian casualties - ON BOTH SIDES!

Give me a break! The theme of ATS is "Deny Ignorance" - relativism is the height of ignorance. To try to say that there is some kind of moral equivalence to what the Palestinians have been trying to do for the last 40 years is an exercise in moral relativism. Anyone who can honestly fall for it - has their feet firmly planted in mid-air!

Wrong.

A simple body count is enough to tell you that, The jews have massacred thousands and thousands of innocent civilians comapred to the opposite...so you are simply wrong.

Further it is the Palestinians who are acting out of defense from the invasion of the land by the jews, again this is recognised by every court on earth including literally hundreds of resolutions passed by the UN, placing Israel as the createst transgresssor of human rights and in voilation of UN reslutions that any other nation ever. So on every point you are simply wrong - the facts are the facts - which are completely disparate to your propagandist assertions.

please read.

Originally posted by audas
As much as the actions of the Israelis sickens me to my core, it is important to maintain reality and not fall victim to the same style of propaganda which clouds the Zionist mindset and dictum.

Fair point. And I stand corrected on the point you mentioned - It's been a while since I was in Uni.

The only kind of diplomacy Hammas understands is that which involves exploding body parts

That's strange, because there was a lasting peace one of the longest times ever experienced in the region - due to diplomatic success rather than violence.

How did this peace end? Israel didn't like Hammas being elected so build a wall around Gaza and blockaded them basically crippling the nation and bringing it to its knees. What exactly did they imagine Hammas would do in that scenario? Say "doh - sorry guys - we're gonna stand down and not fight for the illegally occupied land Isreal has illegally taken from us through illegal military action and basically give up - sorry guys - I knew you were counting on us but hey - lets just give up because Israel say so'

I think not. Rocket attacks are desperate response in my mind - and to be honest, one person dead is a tragedy anyway - but come on... one person... it's hardly a massive threat to Israels national security is it - maybe more of a wake up call - like 'hey please take a look at what your doing to us - it's really not on'.

And cult of death? Come off it. I don't know where you dream this bull crap up.. But I was 18 once, and I'd much rather have been out chasing some poon or getting my hands on some beers than blowing myself up. I think regardless of how people are conditioned, the will to kill yourself is pretty extreme and doesn't come lightly.

Desperate people do desperate things - remember the people jumping out of the WTC buildings? Sure they weren't desperate, they just saw one of the other guys do it first and thought - huh - why not - I mean life's great up here, but seeing as everyone seems to be joining this cult of death I don't want to be left out.

Originally posted by Dutty_Rag

The only kind of diplomacy Hammas understands is that which involves exploding body parts

And cult of death? Come off it. I don't know where you dream this bull crap up.. But I was 18 once, and I'd much rather have been out chasing some poon or getting my hands on some beers than blowing myself up. I think regardless of how people are conditioned, the will to kill yourself is pretty extreme and doesn't come lightly.

You need to do some research on Islamic jihad.


newsblaze.com...

A Hamas representative in the PA legislative council this year expressed pride in the fact that women and children are used as human shields in fighting Israel. He described it as part of a “death industry” at which Palestinians excel, and explained that the Palestinians “desire death” with the same intensity that Israelis “desire life.”

The following is the full text of the comments by Hamas representative Fathi Hamad: “For the Palestinian people death became an industry, at which women excel and so do all people on this land: the elderly excel, the Jihad fighters excel, and the children excel. Accordingly [Palestinians] created a human shield of women, children, the elderly and the Jihad fighters against the Zionist bombing machine, as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: We desire death as you desire life.”

The OP's point falls apart - not only because of the incomplete history he chose to use in his post - but also because of the growing number of Jewish people, both Israeli and non-Israeli, who are rejecting Israel's treatment of the Palestinians in Gaza and, in fact, directly comparing it to the Nazis.

www.dailykos.com...

I'm Jewish and descendant of holocaust survivors. Moreover, I've been a Zionist all of my life. I went to a Zionist school, I was active in Zionist youth groups. I've always been a fervent supporter of Israel as a refuge for Jews around the world who seek a place to exercise their traditions and embrace their identity in peace.

I sang the Israeli anthem in the train rails of Aushwitz-Birkenau and I pledged to fight every day of my life to make sure the savage crimes that had taken place there would never happen again. Every year I pledged: Never Again. Remember and Never forget.

Well, I haven't forgotten. And so to honor that pledge, to honor the memory of my family members who died in those death camps and because "there comes a time when silence is betrayal", today I finally and publicly end my support for the state of Israel.

When I read the excerpt above, it somehow strikes me that the author's experience is not that different from a Muslim student's in a Madrassa (sp?). It seems that fanatics and extremists of all religions feel the need to indoctrinate their young people with their spin on the "truth".

Reading this thread, I am reminded of the phrase "Don't hate the player, hate the game". It's all a game to control perception, because truth is too dangerous to the PTB.

reply to post by blueyonder


Question: Is he talking ABOUT propaganda - or is what he's saying propaganda itself, for the 'establishment-haters' and conspiracy theorists?

How you answer is irrelevant because the fact of the matter is EVERYBODY uses propaganda. Your post is propaganda - my post is propaganda - this whole website is FULL of propaganda.

My second point is (get this) propaganda is not evil and is not a four letter word. Massaging the facts to support your position is merely an exercise in debate. It forces critical thinking. Who ever said that people in authority (or people, like the media, who think they are in authority) have an absolute responsibility to tell the 100% truth 100% of the time?

Please - we live in a messed up, fallen world. We can't take anything we hear at face value - every piece of information out there is tinged with someone's opinion or interpretation. Even everything I just said...

A statement that Palestinians desire death as much as Israelis desire life does not constitute proof of the existance of a cult of death.

It sounds like a propaganda response that actually echos a lot of truth. If I was in charge of a nation where the majority of the population have reached a point where they would willingly die for their country to give their families and their descendants a better future - I'd probably want to tell people about it. It's an incredibly powerful statement.

Israel have constructed this attitude amongst Palestinians with their oppressive actions and if I were Israel I would find such words chilling.

But some kind of unjustified, religion inspired cult of death? I think not.

I think religions role in Hammas and this conflict is overestimated. Sure it is banded around a lot with the word Jihad, but thats almost in the same way that Isreal band around the word Nato to somehow back up their actions. It's all propaganda.

Threatening Isreal with Jihad is much more terrifying than saying - our rag tag bunch of fighters with no modern weaponry or training are gonna come get ya' - do you not agree?

I think if you actually look at what is happening rather than just listen to what people are telling you - on BOTH sides that is - you'll find that religion isn't even what I'd call a major factor in the actual conflict and if anything - it is Israel which use religion to justify the existence of Israel and their land grab! This has much more to do with Palestinian people feeling wronged as they were displaced from land they had occupied for hundreds of years as the ethnic population - and their subsequent imprisonment in Gaza - because lets be real - that's what it is.

I'd also even go further and ask that we look at what Jihad is. Is Jihad some construct based around hate? Is it based around the gain of land or material wealth for the 'muslim cause' - no it isn't. Sure it has been used in rather twisted capacities to justify actions of a number of true terrorist groups - but in this case - if Hammas or other Muslim leaders wanted to declare Jihad, it would almost be the identical counterpart to the UN issuing a resolution or perhaps even mobilising a security council force. Different culture, different way of doing things - amounts to the same.

reply to post by audas


Ok - I'll play - WRONG.

There was a war between Israel and the Palestinians. With the help of the USA, Israel won that war. As with the end of any war there are concessions made. These concessions will always benefit the 'victor'. Because Israel won the war, they got some land. It's the Palestinians who have never acknowledged the fact that Israel has the right to be there and the right to the land.

So on all points, YOU are wrong.

reply to post by plejarenentity

You miss the point that before the isrealis came on the scene the Palestinians were the dregs of the Arab nations and were beat down by everyone of them. Look at the border with Egypt, if the Arab nations were serious about their love for fellow arabs they would open the border and the problems of not having the items for daily life would be gone. Why hasnt the mainstream media shown the ambulances at the Egyptian border that the hamas wont allow in to help the people of gaza. More is happening here then you are being allowed to see, by all sides.

Originally posted by kosmicjack
The OP's point falls apart - not only because of the incomplete history he chose to use in his post - but also because of the growing number of Jewish people, both Israeli and non-Israeli, who are rejecting Israel's treatment of the Palestinians in Gaza and, in fact, directly comparing it to the Nazis.

Sorry, Everyone has an incomplete view of history.

www.dailykos.com...

I'm Jewish and descendant of holocaust survivors. Moreover, I've been a Zionist all of my life. I went to a Zionist school, I was active in Zionist youth groups. I've always been a fervent supporter of Israel as a refuge for Jews around the world who seek a place to exercise their traditions and embrace their identity in peace.

I sang the Israeli anthem in the train rails of Aushwitz-Birkenau and I pledged to fight every day of my life to make sure the savage crimes that had taken place there would never happen again. Every year I pledged: Never Again. Remember and Never forget.

Well, I haven't forgotten. And so to honor that pledge, to honor the memory of my family members who died in those death camps and because "there comes a time when silence is betrayal", today I finally and publicly end my support for the state of Israel.

When I read the excerpt above, it somehow strikes me that the author's experience is not that different from a Muslim student's in a Madrassa (sp?). It seems that fanatics and extremists of all religions feel the need to indoctrinate their young people with their spin on the "truth".

There are exceptions to the norm, but his view(whether fabricated or not)is not the norm. He wasn't taught to become a suicide bomber, worship an AK47, kill civilians and hide behind women and children as human shields like a coward. How anyone you can say the author's experience is not that different from a Muslim student is absurd. That thought might pass in a nut house. Don't walk to slow through the forest, other wise the squirrels might pick you up!!

Reading this thread, I am reminded of the phrase "Don't hate the player, hate the game". It's all a game to control perception, because truth is too dangerous to the PTB.

I don't know what kind of games you play out in your reality, but this is much more serious than a game. Unless you are referring to the game you are playing here on ATS to control people's perceptions by tainting everything with your hatred.

To the OP umm how many religions deserve their own country? The quote below is from a reddit thread oddly enough its more intelligent and informed than what I find here today....thats not good for ATS.

Here is my take. In 1916 the British, who controlled the area, promised the land to the Arabs in return for their help in WW1 (Lawrence of Arabia).

In 1917 the British, with the Balfour Declaration, promised the same land to the Jews. The idea of a Jewish homeland in Palestine ("Zionism") had gained a lot of currency from the mid-19th century (Jews had had no state of their own after being kicked out of Israel by the Romans in the first century).

After WW2 the UN decided, because of the Holocaust, to try to create Israel. However this required the agreement of the Arabs, who weren't up for giving up the land where they had lived for generations, and in any case hadn't the British promised it to them? The plan was to carve up what was called the British Mandate in Palestine into Jordan, Israel, and Arab Palestine.

Despite the lack of an agreement regarding the break up of Palestine into Arab and Jewish territories, Israel unilaterally declared its independence in 1948. There was bloodshed on both sides - Jewish attacks such as the Deir Yassin massacre caused many Arabs to flee, and the Arabs states attacked Israel, causing others to flee. Israel beat the Arabs in 1948, with Egypt crossing over into the Gaza strip which they occupied. Jordan took control of the West Bank.

The UN passed a resolution guaranteeing a "Right of Return" for the Arabs who had fled their homes. The Arabs attacked again in 1967. Again Israel beat them back, but this time their military remained outside their borders, occupying the Gaza strip and the Sinai, the Golan Heights (part of Syria), and the West Bank. The UN passed a resolution saying that the borders of Israel were those that were present before the invasion. Israel ceded the Sinai when they made peace with Egypt, but the Gaza strip remained under Israeli occupation.

Israel withdrew from Gaza a few years ago, but the military occupation of the West Bank continues to this day. It is the military occupation that is the cause of the problem between the Palestinians and the Israelis. There is also the issue of the building of settlements in the West Bank by Israel (transplanting your people to occupied territory is forbidden by the Fourth Genenva Convention).

While there are some extremists who would want to see Israel disappear, the view of the world as expressed by the UN, and by the Arabs trhrough the Saudi Peace initiative, is for Israel to return to its 1967 borders and for the Palestinians, freed from occupation, to create their own state. However there are also extremists on the Israeli side who want the whole of Palestine for Israel, with the settlements in places such as Hebron - the second holiest site in Judaism after Jerusalem, but in the occupied West Bank - being "facts on the ground".

and to add to the defense of Israel they didnt accept a truce agreement today

[edit on 31-12-2008 by 911fnord]

I'm not wrong at all - I think you'll find that under the Geneva convention no nation has the right to annex land as the result of war - this isn't the 1800's.

There are circumstances prescribed for occupation - but not indefinite occupation. An indefinite occupation is illegal - these are described - by the UN - as occupied territories. Thus Israel do not legally have a right to remain their indefinitely and must return the land once security is ensured.

Obviously the last point about security is key - but I think we have established over the last 10 years that in occupying these lands they are actually decreasing their security by provoking response from Palestine - legal or otherwise this is fairly irrelevant.

I think we need to put what is legal and what isn't aside as this isn't the issue at all here. Israel HAVE acted illegally 100's of times in this conflict. That isn't up for debate, the UN have issued numerous resolutions saying so.

This is about the seemingly odd provocatory actions of Israel despite their claim that they want to achieve security and peace.

Occupying land is provocatory.

Launching disproportionate blanket attacks (Lebanon/Now) that will CLEARLY result in civilian deaths - RATHER THAN - using their well known and highly developed surgical strike (air and ground) capability to take out ONLY military targets - is provocatory.

Israel maintaining a blockade denying Gaza's occupants basic human rights is provocatory.

Israel actively sending settlers into Palestinian governed land in the West Bank - and then maintaining such settlements under their own law and control is provocatory.

Israel refusing to recognise a freely and democratically elected government in Gaza is provocatory.

Branding the Palestinian authorities as terrorists and refusing to open diplomatic channels with them - is provocatory.

Given the above, how can Israel claim that they want peace when they appear to be doing all they can to avoid it?

Israel had a lasting peace if a fragile one before they blockaded Gaza. They broke the peace and goodwill by doing this, not Hamas. FACT. Why? Because they didn't like Hammas.

Well, most people in the UK don't like the Bush administration, so should we shut down diplomatic relations with the US until you change? Somehow I don't see that happening.

reply to post by Dutty_Rag


Sorry - you missed the point. On the cult of death thing - the Palestinians have a miserable life. There is no doubt about it. But that miserable life is placed on them and perpetuated by their leadership. Instead of using what resources they have and get shipped to them from sympathetic nations for the better-ment of their people, they choose to increase their arsenals - why? Because it is a simple law of war - keep the people in a desperate state and they will continue to do desperate things. Couple that with a radical fundamentalist religious point of view and you have an army of robots who are willing to do ANYTHING, including their own self destruction, because the person who commits the act goes to heaven AND it is believed that person also believes that by them sacrificing their life, the world will be a better place for it (just take a look at some of the videos and letters that these homicide bombers leave behind; they are convinced that their action will result in a better world and that it will make a difference).

Again, the Palestinians ALWAYS target civilians INCLUDING their own. This is what always gets ignored by those who want to find some legitimacy in the Palestinian plight.

On the wall thing - There are consequences for actions. The Palestinian people CHOSE leaders who were known terrorists. These people were widely known and understood to be a threat (sorry, but they are BAD people - hard to believe, but bad people DO exist). If Canada suddenly elected a government with the stated objective of destroying the USA, don't you think it would be a little irresponsible of the US government to not take defensive measures - like - I don't know - build a wall?

Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost
Hmm interesting perspective. A couple of ironies. First off that evil Hitler gassing all the Jews killed 60 million citizens 6 million of them being Jews. Second Hitler needed money to go on his rampage and where do you think Hitler got that money? Well look no further than the international Jewish financiers. Yes even after they knew he was killing his own people. Sad isnt it?

Not only did Hitler gas the Jews he took them all and sent them to ghettos where he starved them and deprived them of all aid. There were a few Jewish uprisings but everyone quelled full force by Hitler. The Jewish uprisings were looked on as provocations. Who are those evil Jews to defend themselves from being starved to death? Now look at what is happening now to the Palestinians who too have been sent to ghettos and being starved. Who are those "evil" Palestinians to cause Israel to have to bomb them to death. They dont need food, they dont need medical, they dont need other basic necessities they need to sit back and shut up and if they are lucky Israel will give them some scraps to feed on. We here on ATS are a smart bunch and we know history well. I recommend you look into other points of view on the historical front than some of the garbage being fed to you.

[edit on 30-12-2008 by tjeffersonsghost]

its an ilegal state -created by the you know who dinasty ... all kinds of people were brought in to populate it ,just like the us military force has been chosen to fight their wars in modern times. gimee a brake -teodor herzl and his awesome new world order idea which is in the works long ago ... well said as well-maybe this guy who posted this thread should read the real history of the world not just israel.

reply to post by kosmicjack


Don't forget, in the United States, one's ethnicity (along with just about everything else) is always trumped by his/her political views. Quoting a Jewish person who posted their thoughts on thedailykos is hardly a valid argument for or against anything.

Christians turned out in droves to vote for a Supreme Leader who believes in infanticide.

Originally posted by netron
You need to do some research on Islamic jihad.


newsblaze.com...

A Hamas representative in the PA legislative council this year expressed pride in the fact that women and children are used as human shields in fighting Israel. He described it as part of a “death industry” at which Palestinians excel, and explained that the Palestinians “desire death” with the same intensity that Israelis “desire life.”

The following is the full text of the comments by Hamas representative Fathi Hamad: “For the Palestinian people death became an industry, at which women excel and so do all people on this land: the elderly excel, the Jihad fighters excel, and the children excel. Accordingly [Palestinians] created a human shield of women, children, the elderly and the Jihad fighters against the Zionist bombing machine, as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: We desire death as you desire life.”

Isnt it interesting that if the Palestinian people were so willing to be shields for Hamas, why do we see the Palestinian people going into the rubble of the bombed buildings to find the injured, carry them off in a hurry to a waiting vehicle and rush them to medical attention? Isnt that sort of a wierd thing for a people so bent on willing to die for Jihad, yet go collect the injured and get them medical help?

Has anyone considered that report about the Palestinian people being bonna fodder so willingly, to possibly being a propeganda piece?

Doesnt make sense that if the civilians over there are so willing to sacrifice themselves for Hamas and Jihad that they would be good simaritans and save the wounded.


Cheers!!!!

There are plenty of governments around the world that HAVE said one of their aims is to destroy the USA - Iran has stated this publicly several times yet the last time I checked there is still an Iranian Embassy open in Washington and likewise a US diplomatic attachment in Tehran.

Sure, if Canada did that you would take action to protect yourself - but the nature of that action remains to be seen.

Do you A) immediatly bomb canada into submission, stop anything entering or leaving the country and not only kill many innocent civilians but also ensure a campaign of retaliation against your own people.

B) engage politically, find out what the grievance is - do their best to work with them to change their perception of them and come to a mutually beneficial solution.

It really is that simple.

Originally posted by John Matrix
I don't know what kind of games you play out in your reality, but this is much more serious than a game. Unless you are referring to the game you are playing here on ATS to control people's perceptions by tainting everything with your hatred.

Yeah, you caught me - I'm a hate-mongerer on ATS, attempting to control perceptions of people worldwide. I love the power. Mwha Ha Ha!

Nice.

reply to post by plejarenentity

Now the 2 or 3 years of the `final solution`.. which is basically what adolf hitlers gassing of the jews was called, NOBODY DID ANYTHING ABOUT IT... NODBODY STEPPED IN, NOBODY LIFTED A FINGER TO HELP THE JEWISH PEOPLE!!!!!

Are you serious? I think you will find that the rest of the world was fighting a war, either for or against the Nazi's and their co-horts. Many hundreds of thousands of my countrymen (British) and many hundreds of thousands of other countries brave sons and daughters fought and died to help the jewish people and people of all nations. You, sir or madam, dishonour their memory by your statement. If they had not made the sacrifice that they did you quite possibly would not be here to make your vile statement. I guarantee that had brave people not fought for the side of right in WW2 then not only would you not have a jewish state, it is highly likely you would not have a jewish people.

Tell your jewish leaders to move their borders back to what they were allowed to have by the rest of the world in 1967 and maybe not in the short term but certainly in the medium term Israel and the Arab nations will move towards a lasting peace.

well said Shazmar -- get them borders a-back'in and I too think a lasting peace can be obtained.