Scores killed in Israeli attacks on Gaza

Looks like the Hamas rocket men got lucky again. Second person killled today. Victim in Ashdod. Killed by Iranian Grad weapon.

Originally posted by Harlequin
reply to post by GamerGal

 

i have allready shown at least 6 times that `Pallywood` is the work of Richard landes , who , along with Ruthie Blumm both work for the Jeruselm post , therefore its nothing more the Israeli propaganda

prove ME wrong and the close personal relationship the 2 have.

you can`t because its matter of record and fact.

Pallywood may be a term coined by one person or the other but the idea of a Palestinian propaganda machine deeply entrenched within main stream media outlets across Europe and the world is no "propaganda".

Maybe you have forgotten the Reuters "photographer" who was better at Photoshop than at taking photos ?? It was spotted by people who werent ridiculously gullible to lap up everything the media threw at them!

I have never seen ANY such photographers doctoring photos to favor Israel. The facts prove that the Palestinian propaganda machine be it "pallywood" or not is firmly in place and a reality.


Unless you are grossly ignorant of these developments, no proof needs to be provided for the common man as it is general knowledge.

reply to post by t0ken

token, before God, I could take 25,000 men and run amok throughout Iran.

They can't fight worth a chili $#!T.

Modern day Iranian nationalists love to reminisce the greatness of the immense Persian Empire, and long to restore that expanse of influence. To do so, they ignore history to their detriment.

The abilities of the West to wage war are unparalleled in history, and that ability is a combination of characteristics that the Persian and Arab Muslims will never, ever have. The destructive excesses of the West seems to derive from concepts and practices not found anywhere else in the world. Free will. Freedom. Economic freedom, political freedom, and religious freedom.

Western nations habitually field bold, disciplined, well-armed armies of considerable power in times of need, and historically, these Western armies once turned loose, kill like no others on earth.

Each time the Persian forces outnumbered their Western counterparts, and each time, they were slaughtered.

Marathon resulted in a Western/Persian kill ratio of 33:1 even though the Greeks were outnumbered.

Thermopylae, 250,000 Persians against 7,000 Greeks led to a kill ratio of 25:1 in favor of the Greeks.

Salamis, a 40:1 kill ratio.

Plataea, a kill ratio of 220:1, even though the Greeks were outnumbered 7:1.

Granicus, 26:1. As you can see the Persians aren't that good. Ever.

Issus, 4:1, but the battle was fought early evening, and the Persians ran faster than they could be caught.

Guyagamela, outnumbering the Macedonians 5:1, the kill ratio was 100:1.

For every Western defeat such as Dien Bien Phu, where the non-Westerners were using massive numbers of Western weapons, artillery, firearms, rockets, etc., there is a Khe Sanh. For every Isandhlwana, there is a Rourke's' Drift. For every Pearl Harbor, there is a Midway. For every Wake Island, there is an Okinawa. For every Thermopylae, there is a Platea.

Consider the modern day territories controlled by the great Persian Empire of Xerxes: Modern day Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey, Lebanon, Israel, portions of Jordan, Egypt, Kazakhstan, and portions of Libya.

They were compelled by a ruler. Today they are compelled by their religion. Israel fights for itself, for survival. Big difference.

Of those same countries of the former Persian Empire, they rely on the West even for their weapons. These same nations have ever been removed from any significant military accomplishments in recent times. Currently many float in oil.

Yet it was the West who found the oil, financed and drilled this oil, established their infrastructure, and enabled their good fortune.

Left to their own devices, these peoples would still be living in tents, scratching their asses left-handed while chewing on mutton, and washing it all down with a sheep-skin canteen while betting on goat races.

Even with their wealth, have you ever seen their high tech air superiority fighter? Their own highly developed main battle tank? Their carrier battle groups? Of course not! If not for Western powers selling them arms, they'd still be using wicker shields and composite bows!

And by the way, the Chinese AK is a copy of the Western Russian AK.

These same Western war-making values can be found in the small state of Israel, surrounded and contested by all those backward-assed cultures and countries of the former Persian Empire.

In 1947-48, 1956, 1967, 1973, and 1982, while surrounded with superior numbers, this small nation defeated multiple coalitions of its Arab neighbors who had vastly superior numbers and weapons.

Forced to defend an almost impossible border against overwhelming numbers, and doing so with such battlefiels success as to baffle reasonable expectation.

The difference? Israel is a nation of Western immigrants who fielded vastly superior organized military consisting of better trained individuals for battle. Israel, unlike its enemies, is a democracy of free markets, technological innovations, capitalist pursuits, free elections, free press, free speech, and freedom of religion.

Their enemies were not - and are not.

[edit on 29-12-2008 by dooper]

Drop the battle lines folks. It isn't all that cut and dried. This is about people. I was reading an article this afternoon and it was quite apt. It was about a group called Machsom Watch:

MachsomWatch, in existence since 2001, is an organisation of peace activist Israeli women against the Israeli Occupation of the territories and the systematic repression of the Palestinian nation. We call for Palestinian freedom of movement within their own territory and for an end to the Occupation that destroys Palestinian society and inflicts grievous harm on Israeli society.

www.machsomwatch.org...

The article was from a July edition of Maclean's:

www.macleans.ca...

The separation Harrison sees is about more than a concrete wall. "Young people don't know each other," Harrison says. "Young Arabs think all Israelis are soldiers with guns, and young Israelis think all Palestinians are terrorists, and they've never met each other." Harrison, who came to Israel 40 years ago from New York, is clearly not allowing herself the luxury of optimism. "You just have to keep working," she says. "We don't want to leave the same situation to our children."

This group is doing spectacular work. Volunteer at that. We can see that there are people that are concerned about this rift and are doing something about it. Why do we, ATS members, divide ourselves in the rhetoric of the opposing sides, continue the fighting, virtual as it is. The gov'ts are screwing the people but it looks like the people want more than this continual strife. Let's think about the people gang.

Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost
I dont blame Israel for this. How can anyone blame Israel for this? The fact is its the US governments fault for all of this. Our government is the one allowing this to happen. Because of our governments unwavering support for Israel with no questions asked Israel feels they dont have to get along with their neighborhood. If the US would send a little message to Israel to suck it up you're on your own now I promise you that you would see peace in the middle east in 60 days. Another example of government needing to sit back and midn their own business.

I'm sorry...the fault is with our government ??? Are you for REAL ?

Not getting along with their neighbors?? Have you read even a paragraph about Israel and the Palestinians ??

I'd like to see how you live next to Bin Laden as a "neighbor" as he tries to blow you and your family to bits day in and day out. Maybe after your mom and dad have been blown to bits by a few home made rockets before your eyes, you will begin to see your neighbor as Israel see its "neighbor"!

Any sane and lucid person will see that the whole cause of this entire situation is HAMAS; who continuously provokes Israel by bombing their citizens for no purpose what-so-ever!

[edit on 29-12-2008 by IAF101]

Originally posted by t0ken

Originally posted by dooper
How many times do we have to go through this?

Unfortunately the zionists only know the language of Bombs, so you gota talk to them in their language until they completely understand you.

A lesson they no doubt learn't from the Arabs when they came back to Israel as within days of the British leaving the Arabs welcomed them with bombs (and LOST!).

Apparently, Islamists cant deal with people who can speak their languages as well as they can...

Originally posted by IAF101

I'm sorry...the fault is with our government ??? Are you for REAL ?

Not getting along with their neighbors?? Have you read even a paragraph about Israel and the Palestinians ??

I'd like to see how you live next to Bin Laden as a "neighbor" as he tries to blow you and your family to bits day in and day out. Maybe after your mom and dad have been blown to bits by a few home made rockets before your eyes, you will begin to see your neighbor as Israel see its "neighbor"!

Any sane and lucid person will see that the whole cause of this entire situation is HAMAS; who continuously provokes Israel by bombing their citizens for no purpose what-so-ever!

[edit on 29-12-2008 by IAF101]

Hmm it depends. If I stood outside my neighbors house and told them you cant leave, you cant get medical aid for your daughter who just broke her leg, and you cant go get food and if you try to Ill shoot. I would probably expect my neighbors to get mad wouldnt I? Then when other neighbors came to help them I told the neighbors that if you give them food and aid Ill shoot you too I would expect my neighbors who are trying to help my neighbors get up in arms also right? Well do that I would expect my neighbors after being starving to finally come out of their house and shoot at me wouldnt I?

Looking that that scenario we now can apply it directly to the Israeli and Palestinian conflict of today. Hamas is elected by the people of Palestine. They are an elected part of their government. We would be mad if Russia come over and started killing all Republicans wouldnt we? Its called a double standard. When one side does it its ok but when another side does it......its terrorism and barbaric.

reply to post by intrepid


I saw a documentary early 2008 (do not remember who made it or what the title is...sorry) about a group of Israeli women trying to help Palestinians, men, women and children. They do small things that make a difference like showing up at check points to make sure the Israeli guards toe the line and not play games like taking ID and then making out that the Palestinian is trying to pull a swifty. They went into Gaza with food and other supplies. They visited a school and I think a medical centre.

It was a very good documentary and I would like to see it again. I felt a deep respect for these Israeli women actually putting themselves in danger from the Palestinians and their own people.


I think this could be the same group in the link you provided.

thanks for the links intrepid
res

reply to post by resistancia


Is this it?

01/03/09 : 05:00 PM - 06:00 PM
Other Zionists, The
2004 - Rating: TV14 - Advisories: MV, AL, AC
An award-winning documentary by Canadian filmmaker, Eric Scott, focusing on an issue which he sees as emblematic of the whole Israeli-Palestinian conflict - the Israeli military checkpoints that line Israel’s border and are scattered throughout the Occupied Territories. The main character in his story is Ronnee Jaeger, a Jewish-Canadian woman who divides her time between Toronto and Jerusalem. She and other Israeli women have founded Machsom Watch, or Checkpoint Watch, an association of women who monitor the checkpoints for human rights abuses. Scott’s film is powerful and beautifully executed. The women at the heart of the film are committed and passionate. Together they have made a film that speaks eloquently about the nature of the conflict and the psychological effects of Israel's Occupation, both for Israeli’s and for Palestinians.

www.documentarychannel.com...

It's on the Documentary Channel on Jan. 3rd.

reply to post by intrepid


It may just be the very one I saw I'll will definitely watch it.

more than a one liner

sincere thanks
res

Originally posted by Harlequin
www.state.gov...


as i have allready shown , twice , saudia arabia are the prime funding for hamas ( which out of the world only 3.8% say there terroist - more countries rate the same of israel at 4.9%)

Yes, you keep saying that. However, here is some evidense to the contrary, that it really is iran behind this latest crisis.

article

Among the many negative consequences of the Second Lebanon War in summer 2006 was the distraction it provided from Iran's nuclear program.

So focused was the international community on 34 days of fighting, and so inarticulate was Israel in explaining that it was (indecisively) confronting the Iranian takeover of southern Lebanon, that Teheran slipped gratefully into the global shadows, there to quietly advance its progress toward the bomb.

Today, there is a danger of the same process repeating itself.

Hizbullah is an Iranian creation. Hamas is not. But it has drawn itself increasingly into Iran's orbit.

Much of its imported weaponry, and the expertise with which it now produces and refines its own rockets, have been provided by Iran.

Dozens of its commanders have been trained in Iran in recent years, coming home and disseminating that "education" as Hamas has built an army in Gaza.

And, increasingly too, Hamas has come to act in the service of Iran's aims.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by t0ken

 

token, before God, I could take 25,000 men and run amok throughout Iran..

Why don't you take em out than? If iran is that easy why don't israel and US take em all out? Let me tell you why, because US and israel will have to sustain casualties atleast 10 times more than what they faced in iraq.

Iran has kinda mastered the Art of guierela warfare with IEDs and russian anti-tank RPGs.

The abilities of the West to wage war are unparalleled in history, and that ability is a combination of characteristics that the Persian and Arab Muslims will never, ever have. The destructive excesses of the West seems to derive from concepts and practices not found anywhere else in the world. Free will. Freedom. Economic freedom, political freedom, and religious freedom.

Well if the muslims were soo weak according to your analysis of history.How the hell did they manage to spread their influence all the way to Spain and make nearly 1/3 overall world population? According to you the 'West' were a formidable force and 'slaughtered' everyone that came in their way.Well i guss they didn't do good job when facing muslims.

Of those same countries of the former Persian Empire, they rely on the West even for their weapons. These same nations have ever been removed from any significant military accomplishments in recent times. Currently many float in oil.

They rely on West for their weapons but the West relies on their oil droppings to run their economy.

Left to their own devices, these peoples would still be living in tents, scratching their asses left-handed while chewing on mutton, and washing it all down with a sheep-skin canteen while betting on goat races.

Well the West would be in the same position if the oil taps were tuned off.The only difference will be Instead of goats and sheeps, they will be betting on pigs and ducks.

Even with their wealth, have you ever seen their high tech air superiority fighter? Their own highly developed main battle tank? Their carrier battle groups? Of course not! If not for Western powers selling them arms, they'd still be using wicker shields and composite bows!

Without the oil, the Western hi-tech mega super jets ,carriers and tanks wouldn't move from their position.Kinda no point having hi-tech gadgets if they can't move.

In 1947-48, 1956, 1967, 1973, and 1982, while surrounded with superior numbers, this small nation defeated multiple coalitions of its Arab neighbors who had vastly superior numbers and weapons.

And israel being soo mighty powerfull can't even stop rockets and millitants in it's back yard.Kinda shame for a nation that has defeated soo many countries but now it's made to kneel to hardline millitants and beg them to stop firing rockets.

Israel is like a little bulldog that needs US to keep feeding it.The day the feeding stops the little Bully will be put down.

reply to post by centurion1211


The Jerusalem Post is evidence? Have you read that source or did you just Google it? Pravda in it's hay day wasn't as much a propaganda machine.

If you don't eliminate the propaganda first, then peace will not be achievable. As long as those who desire to keep people fighting against each other succeed in spreading their lies, wars will continue to be fought for foolish reasons.

The conflict carries on because Hamas refuses to live in peace.

If the Palestinians were to stop launching misiles and stop suicide bombers, and start to make a serious effort towards living with the Israelis in peace, they probably could gain back their lost territories.

Following Hamas is only going to lead to more misery for all.

Does anyone have any actual news updates on what is going on over there or has this thread just turned into an ideological debate? If so do it elsewhere this is a BREAKING NEWS FORUM. Please stick to the topic at hand and post about the current situation with news updates.

On Australian news




Israel phones in warning to flee Gaza Strip strikes


*300 killed in Israeli air strikes in Gaza
*Residents near targets warned to get out
*Hamas threatens to kill Israeli leaders
*Pictures: Violence in the Gaza Strip


Read more here:

www.news.com.au...


res

Originally posted by princeofpeace
Does anyone have any actual news updates on what is going on over there or has this thread just turned into an ideological debate? If so do it elsewhere this is a BREAKING NEWS FORUM. Please stick to the topic at hand and post about the current situation with news updates.

Yes you're right, we should stick to the title of the thread.I'm looking on CNN now, new explosions rock Gaza. Around 350 dead so far, if this keeps up by the end of the week we will have the amount of around 2000 people dead.Reports show universities and public roads as target now.

It's sad, Israel will get off the hook again with the US vetoing any resolution that would normaly pass so I don't expect this to stop anytime soon.The killing spring will continue so Israel can defend it's self.




[edit on 29-12-2008 by pepsi78]

reply to post by pepsi78


intresting, they claim to be targeting Hamas yet they are targeting civilians
anyone supprised apart from the Israeli prep squad?

Universities =Civilian = Students = future of palestine

ever more like nazi germany, kill of the academics

Why is it always the United States that has to broker a deal between Israel and the Palestinians? Why don't the Arab countries like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and others get more involved? Isn't it in their interest for that region not to explode into a bigger war? The whole thing stinks.

reply to post by ufo reality


I think you make a very valid point and I agree that another ME country should try to broker peace here. Israel and Hamas are loose cannons and a constant threat to the stability (I use that term loosely) of the ME.

Maybe peace has never been achieved because the USA has been used as a negotiator and perhaps if say, Saudi Arabia or the Kuwaitis got involved then maybe there coud be a chance...

Would that all depend on whether they are Shi'ite or Sunnis? Like in Iraq, just asking as I am not sure on that one. Maybe someone can enlighten me on that point as it is a whole other ballgame.

I just think your point is a good one


res

[edit on 29-12-2008 by resistancia]

[edit on 29-12-2008 by resistancia]