Scores killed in Israeli attacks on Gaza

Originally posted by John Matrix
reply to post by masonwatcher

 

The radical muslim extremists are a threat and they are terrorists. Under their law they put people to death for sexual infidelity, adultery. Which means most of the US population would be put to death under their laws. Why do you not understand this?

[edit on 27-12-2008 by John Matrix]

Those radicals are wrong and have no right to abuse someone's human rights. I am also against capital punishment in Sharia. Most Muslim countries are ruled by Western sponsored strongmen and for them to apply these retributive sanctions are not guaranteed by transparency and lawful procedures. However, I do believe a murderer or a 1st degree rapist deserves death; it's just who is applying it that concerns me.

Nevertheless, this does not diminish Israel's culpabilities in committing war crimes nor does it justify it. More people are killed by Israel's unlawful acts than by the application of Sharia over 1.6 billion Muslims.

You argument has no strength to it.

Originally posted by IAF101
It is obvious to any reasonable and unbiased individual that the source is as important as the Facts it provides. Otherwise, people with ulterior motives would have us believe all the garbage they serve on Rense and the conspiracy theories on this site to be fact.

Couldn't agree more.

Apparently, so do the "patron saints" of HYPOCRISY, who come scurrying out to slander, debase and villify Israel and Jews at ever turn all the while justifying terrorism and terrorist actions.

Israel's "pattern of abuse" as you refer to it is more justifiable than the "pattern of hypocrisy" preached here by the proponents of Palestine.

Thank you for providing an example of what we have agreed upon here. Take the leg work out of this for me.

Originally posted by masonwatcher
reply to post by IAF101

 

A Kabbala tattoo is one thing, a military tattoo is a wholly separate matter. I really don't know why a US soldier would have an Israeli military tattoo instead of one of his unit's. Very odd and convoluted explanation.


[edit on 103131p://pm3114 by masonwatcher]

There are many reasons why people have tattoos, your understanding is not really why they got their tattoo, it was because it meant something to them. As far as I know, there is no need for people to justify their tattoos or explain why they get their tattoos in a free country. Also, how do you know he doesnt have a tattoo of his unit ?

Moreover there are many people with the wehrmacht tattoo, does that mean they are all part of some phantom Nazi army ?

Originally posted by Jacob08

Originally posted by mybigunit

Originally posted by John Matrix
reply to post by masonwatcher

 

The radical muslim extremists are a threat and they are terrorists. Under their law they put people to death for sexual infidelity, adultery. Which means most of the US population would be put to death under their laws. Why do you not understand this?

[edit on 27-12-2008 by John Matrix]

The difference is we are invading and occupying their countries telling them how to live. If they want to live under that law that is their choice. They can leave if they want. The people who dont like that life immigrate here dont they? When is the last time you saw Iran invade us and tell us how to live? Iraq? Syria?

Good point but if they did have the capability to invade America I would not put it past them. However I agree with the general idea that different cultures should be able to have different beliefs and laws to us (in their own countries) regardless of how strange those laws might seem to people who grew up in our culture and with our laws.

The NWO wants a huge monoculture with a one world government/laws and if the NWO wants it then I'm against it. Anyway who is to say one civilization is superior to another? To us their way of life seems backwards and strange but I'm sure aspects of our culture are just as strange and in some cases disgusting to them.

Well then I'll say the last redoubt against the NWO is Islam.

reply to post by John Matrix


Even if it were 10 or 100 videos, they dont even come close to the total number of videos and pictures taken by thousands of news photographers and videographers that are NOT Palestinian photographers. Does that declare them all as fake because of the "several"? Hardly.

If put on a weight scale, which way would that indicator tilt to? These several videos where only 1 went through a court case...or the thousands of others taken by outside news reporters and photographers?

I will let you answer that one.




Cheers!!!!

Originally posted by intrepid
"Show of support"? Seems that would make them part of the group imo. Especially if they are committing indecencies towards a certain group. OR who said that he wasn't an Israeli? You 100% positive on this?

Just to head off another argument:

And there are some that don't have tattoos for religious reasons:

www.islamictimes.co.uk...

Guess who that would be? Wait for it................... MUSLIMS.

Muslims arent "supposed" to kill innocent civilians too. I dont see that stopping the Terrorists who launched these rockets into Israel !
Shockingly, they dont practice what they preach!! Imagine that!

Coming back to the tattoo, so your saying that if I have a tattoo for Israel that makes me an Israeli ?? Is that even a lucid response ??

Why bother with passports and visas when tattoos will suffice then ?

Showing support and being a part of a group are totally different things. Just like having a cool Chinese tattoo and being Chinese are totally different things!

Do I really have to elaborate further ?? Has this discussed devolved to such lows as to investigate the meanings of tattoos ?? Come on!

Anybody going to start talking about the operation in Gaza or should this thread be closed and a new one started to debate tatoos ideology? Just sayin....

reply to post by John Matrix


Well we shot down an Iranian civillian airline in the 80s in which we had to pay millions in reparations. In Iraq we have killed many civilians whether on purpose or not they are still dead. We have killed our fair share of civilians the only difference is when we do it its collateral damage when Hamas does it its terrorism.

Anybody going to start talking about the operation in Gaza or should this thread be closed and a new one started to debate tatoos and ideology? Just sayin....



[edit on 27-12-2008 by princeofpeace]

Originally posted by IAF101

Originally posted by masonwatcher
reply to post by IAF101

 

A Kabbala tattoo is one thing, a military tattoo is a wholly separate matter. I really don't know why a US soldier would have an Israeli military tattoo instead of one of his unit's. Very odd and convoluted explanation.


[edit on 103131p://pm3114 by masonwatcher]

There are many reasons why people have tattoos, your understanding is not really why they got their tattoo, it was because it meant something to them. As far as I know, there is no need for people to justify their tattoos or explain why they get their tattoos in a free country. Also, how do you know he doesnt have a tattoo of his unit ?

Moreover there are many people with the wehrmacht tattoo, does that mean they are all part of some phantom Nazi army ?

Fallacious argument using strawman tactics. I find most zionists are expert dissemblers.

Incidentally, the Wehrmacht still was the army not the SS and I would be astounded if a German military prison guard was seen sporting the tattoo of an Israeli military unit.

Anybody going to start talking about the operation in Gaza or should this thread be closed and a new one started to debate tatoos and ideology? Just sayin....

reply to post by John Matrix

You did so by proxy.Before world war 2 there was no Israel, it had to be invented, so weapons and logistic needs were given to the jews for free just like today , to make sure the state of Israel pops up after the rain.
The reason for the existance of Israel is not becouse they loved the Jewish people, it's because it was a need. Israel is just a pawn needed in the middle of the suroundings to have a pretex to control the middle east for it's goods and to put it in submision for globalisation.Without Israel none of this would be possible because there would be no motive to wage war.

reply to post by mybigunit

Here's the problem with your claim that the US or Israel for that matter is guilty of killing civilians.

Every yahoo in Iraq for the past few years who shot at, or was shot by US troops was . . . a CIVILIAN! Dressed in civilian clothes, these are technically non-uniformed combatants.

Now, if you have a hundred "civilian" dead, then exactly how are you supposed to differentiate?

All these yahoos firing mortars and rockets look just like the group on the corner cheering them on.

So when someone tell me that either Israel or the US is killing civilians, my response would always be: I hope to hell they are!

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by IAF101
First, what makes you thing that if Israelis dont know neither do I ??

So you DO know? Are you Mossad?

I didnt say that did I? Or would you like to use conjecture and speculation to determine I do know and dont, just like these accusations against Israel ?

Originally posted by intrepid

I never said I was Israeli did I ???

I didn't say you were. Just applying logic. I'd assume that an Israeli would have more info than someone who was not. Unless, hmm. Not Mossad, NSA maybe?

Applying flawed logic to be precise! While Mossad operations are classified, even to make wild accusations there has to be some corroborating evidence that founded such speculation. Failure to provide that only shows a terrorist sympathizer's attitude.

Originally posted by intrepid

Second, to claim of something happened the onus of proof is on you to prove so. Otherwise, it is merely speculation and not FACT. I dont need to provide proof to the contrary to deny speculation.

In other words you've got nothing and this is the response.

Wrong, it means that wild speculation and wanton slander wont go unchallenged. I'm sorry you are having difficulty understanding this .

Anybody going to start talking about the operation in Gaza or should this thread be closed and a new one started to debate tatoos? Just sayin....

reply to post by masonwatcher


Most third world nations are ruled by strongman who appeal to what ever world power will back them, if not the U.S., than the Russians or the Chinese, or whatever IC is able to bring the best deal. Sadly, too many people in third world nations go along with this simply for their own slice of the pie. The third world nations have been dominated by strongmen for far longer than westerners have been circling the globe.

Don't be so naive.

Originally posted by pepsi78
reply to post by John Matrix

 

You did so by proxy.Before world war 2 there was no Israel, it had to be invented, so weapons and logistic needs were given to the jews for free just like today , to make sure the state of Israel pops up after the rain.
The reason for the existance of Israel is not becouse they loved the Jewish people, it's because it was a need. Israel is just a pawn needed in the middle of the suroundings to have a pretex to control the middle east for it's goods and to put it in submision for globalisation.Without Israel none of this would be possible because there would be no motive to wage war.

Notice the photo of the Israeli SUPERMARINE SPITFIRE F Mk XIV in the previous postings. Now how would post colonial Palestinian farmers to answer that in 1947?

I tell you, the formation of Israel was a bumrush.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by masonwatcher

 

Most third world nations are ruled by strongman who appeal to what ever world power will back them, if not the U.S., than the Russians or the Chinese, or whatever IC is able to bring the best deal. Sadly, too many people in third world nations go along with this simply for their own slice of the pie. The third world nations have been dominated by strongmen for far longer than westerners have been circling the globe.

Don't be so naive.

How am I naive? Did I not basically say that and how does your point negate mine? You merely extended my point.

Most third world countries don't have an Israel rammed down their throats. And strong men service the interest of foreign agents of influence.

Before colonialism, most third leaders ruled according to ancient and tribal traditions based on cultural consent. You might say a constitutional democracy is superior, but I watched closely during W Bush's elections and scratch my head in puzzlement to this day.

[edit on 103131p://pm3147 by masonwatcher]

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by mybigunit

 

Here's the problem with your claim that the US or Israel for that matter is guilty of killing civilians.

Every yahoo in Iraq for the past few years who shot at, or was shot by US troops was . . . a CIVILIAN! Dressed in civilian clothes, these are technically non-uniformed combatants.

Now, if you have a hundred "civilian" dead, then exactly how are you supposed to differentiate?

It can't be done, because they are civilians.Most of insurgency in Iraq is done be civilians, in the past they were taxi drivers, or merchants, now they are insurgents, probably because they had their taxi car crushed by a tank or shop blown up by the US coalition.

So when someone tell me that either Israel or the US is killing civilians, my response would always be: I hope to hell they are!

There you go, you have your answer.

What is United States doing in Iraq anyway?

reply to post by dooper


Dooper I can go down every war we have fought and show you were we not only killed civilians but that was the goal. Every single war. Its part of war period. Im just trying to point out the double standard that is all Im doing. When "we" do it its collateral damage but when Hamas kills civilians its terrorism. One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter period.

The fact is the main stream media portrays the Palestinian people as evil when this is just not the case. The Palestinians are a people who had their lands stripped because of a holocaust that happened in Europe. Now Israel in my opinion through war has earned their land there that is just how the world works. But sometimes there are consequences to occupying an area where your not wanted. remember the crusades? My point is its not Americas fight to keep fighting for Israel. Americas support has come to the detriment of the American people. In reality there really is no strategic value to being allied with Israel. We need to toss them aside. Yes thats how I feel.