Us Marine Drill Sergeant Boasts Of What They Will Do To Civilians Under Martial Law In The Usa/monta

reply to post by GRANDWORLDDRAMA


Just like there are US troops spread all over the world.

It doesn't mean anything.

It's unconstitutional to have foriegn troops within US borders. This has changed over the last 4 years. Blackwater employs foreign troops and is expanding in that recruitment. They are opening strip mall storefront security offices much like military recruitment stations or small police offices found in storefronts. This is happening all over the US and since BLackwater is a private entity which not even congress can gain oversight of, it leaves an uneasy feeling deeo down inside. This is similar to the way the Nazi SS came to power.

Many former vets like myself will stand up if the constitution or the lives of our fellow citizens are challenged.



[edit on 24-12-2008 by libertytoall]

reply to post by CAP811


There's a huge difference between a war protester and someone who refuses to obey ILLEGAL orders. I can't see most marines abandoning everything they have fought for (ie the Constitution) to follow ILLEGAL orders.

Here's a question for those who are serving or have served in the military.

Would you obey illegal orders given to you?

Would you obey illegal orders that required you to round up citizens and place them in camps, keeping in mind, somewhere else in the country, your family and friends are also being rounded up by someone else?

What would you do if you were given these illegal orders?

Thanks for your honest responses.

Also, you should know, I have the GREATEST respect for anyone willing to put their lives on the line to protect the rest of us.

JFJ, I think you are looking at this all wrong, what if the marines and the regular police were not involved what then. Even the assumption that if they were involved that thy would not follow certain orders is completely wrong. You are not looking at this situation in the correct context.

If a situation were to occur where martial law was invoked all those forces taking part would be duty bound to carry out those orders. Right so that does not mean that marines will go around shooting anyone but what it would mean that they could be involved in moving people from their homes into camps or other secure areas.

Remember the majority of German soldiers did not commit crimes against hummanity only a small number did and the Nazis used many foreign nationals to do their dirty works as well. You prove your own point by stating that the marines would not kill indiscriminately but they don't have to and not only that the perps would know would they not just what we speculate on now on this thread.

When setting up a regime such as this there are different levels, at the bottom is your basic grunt following orders, say jsut rounding people up but much higher there will be the chosen few would commit all manner of crimes and would do it all the moe given a free hand and especially if well rewarded and made to feel superior.

But there is one solid fact should ML ever be invoked in the US and I for one hope it never will is that people will be ready and willing to round up, kill and torture their fellow Americans. As unpalatable as that seems that I'm affraid is exactly what would happen and has already happened on many occasions and we all know it.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
JFJ, I think you are looking at this all wrong, what if the marines and the regular police were not involved what then. Even the assumption that if they were involved that thy would not follow certain orders is completely wrong. You are not looking at this situation in the correct context.

If a situation were to occur where martial law was invoked all those forces taking part would be duty bound to carry out those orders.

No they wouldn't. Illegal orders are illegal orders and they don't have to follow them and I don't believe most would. Sure some would but I believe most would not.

Right so that does not mean that marines will go around shooting anyone but what it would mean that they could be involved in moving people from their homes into camps or other secure areas.

Again, these would be illegal orders and I believe most would not follow them.

Remember the majority of German soldiers did not commit crimes against hummanity only a small number did and the Nazis used many foreign nationals to do their dirty works as well.

And do you honestly believe that the US population would allow foreign troops to occupy this country without doing something? I don't.
Furthermore, do you think that our military would allow an illegal occupation? Can you see foreign troops coming and and the marines say, "Oh well, not our problem, so what if they round up and imprison our families". Come on !

You prove your own point by stating that the marines would not kill indiscriminately but they don't have to and not only that the perps would know would they not just what we speculate on now on this thread.

Marines would not be killing indescrimintely by defending the country against foreign invaders.

When setting up a regime such as this there are different levels, at the bottom is your basic grunt following orders, say jsut rounding people up but much higher there will be the chosen few would commit all manner of crimes and would do it all the moe given a free hand and especially if well rewarded and made to feel superior.

They're not just "grunts" they are (the vast majority) individuals who honor our freedom with their lives. I think you're missing that point.

But there is one solid fact should ML ever be invoked in the US and I for one hope it never will is that people will be ready and willing to round up, kill and torture their fellow Americans. As unpalatable as that seems that I'm affraid is exactly what would happen and has already happened on many occasions and we all know it.

Again, I'm sure there are some individuals who would follow orders without thinking HOWEVER, most have too much honor to hurt and kill innocents just because some moron asked them to.

Would anyone here follow the order to detain, injure or kill an innocent person just because they were asked to? I WOULD NOT. WOULD YOU?

As a citizen of the United States of America, every citizen is bound to protect the Constitution, just like every soldier is responsible to protect the Constitution against ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.

[edit on 24-12-2008 by jfj123]

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


It's not so much as active duty military, it's national guard and reserves that scare me #less. I know from my time in service that the active duty military will be occupied for a time with literal in-fighting if those orders come down the pike.

I think if its a choice of follow these orders or be shot for disobeying them, then most will follow them. It would be hard to organise dissent from within since the mere inkling of it happening & it would be immediately stamped out & brutally.

I also think that they would firstly send the troops to some poor ghetto full of immigrants & to tell the troops that these people are terrorists, they are going to destroy America, they are out of control & lawless & you have to stop them to save the US, etc.

The troops would most probably follow orders against these people without really feeling that they are doing anything against "real" Americans, & feeling that they are protecting the US.

Once they've gone down that route there is no turning back as the public they face are progressively closer to "middle Americans."

I think it will be done stealthily.

reply to post by Power_Semi


Here are some problems with that.
How many US soldiers are going to actually follow orders to kill their brothers in arms.

Only attacking one segment of the population at a time would allow all others to organize and create an overwhelming force that could not be stamped out.

Any attack would need to be overwhelming and simulataneous and that would require a minimum troop level of 32 million (10 to 1 ratio) with the ability to mobilize them and supply them.

Not seeing it happen

jfj, I think you are still looking at this wrong you keep metioning illegal orders what illegal oreders. If ML was declared the constitution would be suspended and the full weight of the Patriot act would come into force. Once the perps had told the military what was expected of them they would obey the orders they are given. yes there may be the odd ones that donl't but the majority will.

they have been rehearsing fir this for years, thy know how the public will respond and will have plans in place to deal with it. Just have a scenario where the banks collaspe. everyone goes to get there money but there is none, withind days people do not have money to buy food or the essentials of life. What do you think will happen, I will tell you people will riot and at the moment you have a well armed populace.

What do you think the response will be from the Government, well I have already mentioned Waco so that gives you a clue. Thee would be total lock dowm a curfew inforce. There would be pitched battles on the streets and no matter how loyal a marine copper or anyone else is when your being shot at you will return fire. It is that kind of scenario that could set light to the whole country.

Right now in the US there are millions and millions of people totally pissed off at the Government, the banks and everyone else they are primmed and ready to explode given th right impetus. It is along those lines that ML will come. Just remember the perps aren't playing by your rules their using their and they don't give a dam about the constitution or Americans.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
jfj, I think you are still looking at this wrong you keep metioning illegal orders what illegal oreders.

Martial law is used only in extreme measures. If the president were simply to declare it, that wouldn't work. Declaring martial law without a major emergency would be an illegal order and thus would not need to be followed.

If ML was declared the constitution would be suspended and the full weight of the Patriot act would come into force. Once the perps had told the military what was expected of them they would obey the orders they are given. yes there may be the odd ones that donl't but the majority will.

That's your opinion. My opinion is that most military officers would have the intelligence NOT to follow the orders.

they have been rehearsing fir this for years, thy know how the public will respond and will have plans in place to deal with it.

Show me this information. Let's see the plans.

Just have a scenario where the banks collaspe. everyone goes to get there money but there is none, withind days people do not have money to buy food or the essentials of life. What do you think will happen, I will tell you people will riot and at the moment you have a well armed populace.

The government won't let the banks collapse. Have you heard about the bailouts ??? Ever hear of FDIC insurance?

What do you think the response will be from the Government, well I have already mentioned Waco so that gives you a clue.

Waco is only relavent if you actually believe that the people in the compound were innocent and everything that happened was by design.

Thee would be total lock dowm a curfew inforce.

With martial law, there would be a curfew but typically people would be able to leave their houses so a "total lockdown" is bad wording. If there were a "total lockdown" they wouldn't need a curfew.

There would be pitched battles on the streets and no matter how loyal a marine copper or anyone else is when your being shot at you will return fire. It is that kind of scenario that could set light to the whole country.

You have no way of knowing how martial law would turn out. Simply saying there would be pitched battles in the streets, doesn't mean that's what will really happen.

Right now in the US there are millions and millions of people totally pissed off at the Government, the banks and everyone else they are primmed and ready to explode given th right impetus.

I refer to those people as the ones willing to fight for their rights.

It is along those lines that ML will come. Just remember the perps aren't playing by your rules their using their and they don't give a dam about the constitution or Americans.

But they also can't win with a small number of troops against a massive population.
You think they have these super intelligent people coming up with these end of days plans to control massive populations with a small number of people but history has shown this is not possible.

JFJ, you do realise the US went through a civil war don't you. And what do you mean what rehearsals plans, what the hell do you think Iraq is all about, practice makes perfect. That is just one exmple and don't you have troops traing with the Police right now. And since when were the children at Waco guilty of anything. I don't care what those people were guilty of or not but when you can shoot gas and burn you own citizens on prime time TV that means a sick nation and one thats supposed to be a democracy, have you heard of that happening in any other democracy

I'm not sure where you comming from beacuse you sound either incredibly naive or are part of the sytem.

I just got out of the marine infantry last year, still two years left on inactive reserve. i've worked closely with marines from private to full bird, and if ANY of them were given orders to fire on us ciitizens there would be one universal answer "with all do respect, you can kiss my ass!" we all swear one and only one oath, to defend against ALL enemies foreign and DOMESTIC. that includes corrupt political groups within the gov. whatever deployment dodging drill instructor was talking out his ass should be shot for treason, totally dishonorable!

Agent, its strange that you and others state that the armed forces would not do such things yet they have in the past and we are now in a situation where you have a totally corrupt Government. I don't think loyalty would make any difference what so ever that when the time comes soldiers do what soldiers do they follow orders.

And we can see from recent evidence that there are plenty of willing volunteers when it comes to killing or torturing your own people. But let me ask you a question if it was say the 7 millon Muslim Americans that were to be put under house arrest or rounded up or worse would that loyalty still be there or is it only for white Americans. I'm not trying to bait you I'm just trying to assess what value this loyalty has and how far it will stretch.

Originally posted by GRANDWORLDDRAMA
snip

CAN A MODERATOR PLEASE REMOVE THIS POST????



Mod Edit - removed quoted post.

[edit on 24-12-2008 by elevatedone]

Originally posted by magicmushroom
JFJ, you do realise the US went through a civil war don't you. And what do you mean what rehearsals plans, what the hell do you think Iraq is all about, practice makes perfect.

Please provide evidence to support this speculation.

That is just one exmple and don't you have troops traing with the Police right now. And since when were the children at Waco guilty of anything.

I never said they were but the adults inside the compound were guilty at least according to many reports including those from the children.

I don't care what those people were guilty of or not but when you can shoot gas and burn you own citizens on prime time TV that means a sick nation and one thats supposed to be a democracy, have you heard of that happening in any other democracy

The burning was an accident. They didn't do it on purpose.

I'm not sure where you comming from beacuse you sound either incredibly naive or are part of the sytem.

I'm not sure where you're coming from. The only thing I can think of is you're one of those people who likes fantasizing about the end of the world and catastrophies or incredibly paranoid.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Agent, its strange that you and others state that the armed forces would not do such things yet they have in the past

You can't blame people like agent for things that were done in the past. That's how people learn so they don't repeat the same mistakes again.
Here's a great example:
On 9/11, passengers, for the most part, didn't fight back and look what happened.
Now look what happened to the shoe bomber on a flight after 9/11.
Fool us once, shame on you, fool us twice, shame on us.

and we are now in a situation where you have a totally corrupt Government.

That doesn't mean every soldier is corrupt now, does it?

I don't think loyalty would make any difference what so ever that when the time comes soldiers do what soldiers do they follow orders.

Soldiers don't swear a blind oath to an administration but a loyalty to a country. Big difference.

And we can see from recent evidence that there are plenty of willing volunteers when it comes to killing or torturing your own people.

Actually there aren't plenty however, even if there were, keep in mind there are also plenty of examples where people have said NO and blown the whistle.

But let me ask you a question if it was say the 7 millon Muslim Americans that were to be put under house arrest or rounded up or worse would that loyalty still be there or is it only for white Americans.

Even though the question was not directed towards me, I'll answer it. Any innocent person should be protected regardless of their religious beliefs.

To me, it seems like people are actually starting to bash the US military and frankly I'm tired of it.

I find it absurd that people are condemning all military people as evil and heartless and would follow orders that would lead to both the downfall of their government and it's people. The idea is beyond insane.

People in the military are just like most other people outside the military. Good hearted people who are just looking for a better life for themselves and their families.

Let's get off the military bashing people !!!!!!!!!!

Again, the people questioning that this could happen must seriously have ZERO knowledge of history. The FACT is these things always happened in history because of just one single thing. And that is that the populaces by a large majority all believed the same thing, which was, "our own troops would never do that".

The thread is in itself proof that it could very well happen in the US, since so many Americans are just as ignorant and naive as people were in other nations where this same thing has happened before.

[edit on 24-12-2008 by Red Cloak]

reply to post by jfj123


First I am NOT bashing the US Military. I am bashing those in the US government who misuse their power. The US Military is one of the few parts of the US government I consider Constitutional and necessary.



First point.
Is it now Legal to use the US military within the United States Borders to put down “Civil Unrest”? The answer is yes. Constitutional

Sec. 1042 of the Act, "Use of the Armed Forces in Major Public Emergencies," effectively overturns what is known as posse comitatus, a law, passed in 1878, that prohibits the use of the regular military within the U.S. Borders. “Civil Unrest” can in some instances be called a “Major Public Emergency”

Second point.
Has there ever been “detention camps” used in the USA. Again the answer is yes. Japanese including naturalized and native born US citizens were put into detention camps during WWII

Third point.
Have those representing the US government ever used force against a US citizen in an unconstitutional manner. You only have to look at the Republican Convention or the Henshaw Incident Source: nonais.org... to Answer YES. I agree these were not military but they were Americans representing the US government and used against Americans in an unconstitutional manner.

Fourth Point
Is there a situation were the US military would be called in and used against US citizens. The answer is YES. Here is an example.

The Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Defense have stated that there will be a choice given to Americans about whether they want to be vaccinated “in the first round in which the pandemic has not gotten away from us. In the second round, when it has gotten away from us, there will be no choice and those who refuse vaccination will be quarantined indefinitely.” ! www.healthfreedomusa.org...

This would mean rounding up and prosessing EVERY person in the USA. That would take using ALL the law enforcement and Military personnel available Could this lead to lethal force used against US citizens? Perhaps.

A second example is in cases of famine which is much more likely to happen in the near future thanks to changes in USDA/FDA regs. Could this lead to lethal force used against US citizens? definately.