Teacher tells 7 year-olds Santa's Fake.

Originally posted by DangerDeath
Lying to children is - creating magic??????
We learn something new every day...

How do you think Magicians create magic? By telling the truth?

Why don't you simply tell them, instead of implying that they are too stupid to understand reality and their true potentials, hey let's imagine things?

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Same as politicians - they lie, and lye is magical, right?
The whole system is built on this magic of lying and denial.

This has been a long and interesting read with much spirited discussion. There are some tough nuts and hard cases on this board but I thought I'd take the chance of being condemned by the good intentioned [them there intentions is what the road to hell is paved with] and post anyway. I think that the teacher should have handled it differently and had no business crushing the beliefs of the children in her charge. Losing her job might be too harsh.
I guess I am one of those liars that played the Santa Claus game with my daughters. Those of you who say it damages them forever can see how that happened here. One is a pediatrician, two are pharmacists, and one is a graduate of the USCGA. They all help their communities with volunteer work and several have gone on medical missions to countries so poor that doctors only show up once every year or two. In a way, they played the part of Santa by bringing gifts to those that had nothing.
When the kids turned six or seven, and they would ask us about Santa being real we would tell them that Santa is as real as you want him to be. The older ones would play along with their younger sisters and eventually everyone of them knew that parents were only Santa's helpers....but they still talk about Santa to this day. For those curmudgeons who take things so literally as to deny the spirit of Santa, that is really your loss. For those who invoke the opinions of PhD psychologists, those are opinions and they are divided. For the poster who wrote about his father, you have the right idea, in my opinion, probably because I walked in your shoes a bit. Santa is where you find him and my children and grandchildren all realize that. The concept is what counts and Santa is an example that is not forgotten in later life, no matter who your personal Santa is.


[edit on 12/12/2008 by pteridine]

Originally posted by DangerDeath
Why don't you simply tell them, instead of implying that they are too stupid to understand reality and their true potentials, hey let's imagine things?

Hummm...what do see reality as being? That computer that sets in front of you? The chair your setting in? Is this all there is to what we think of as reality? What about the things we don`t see? Because we don`t see these things, they are not real? Are the things we feel inside us as real as the things we see? Yes they are. So when a child thinks of Santa, and feels love, happiness and goodness when they do, this is not real then, right?

By going to theater you are aware what is going to happen. You will experience the magic of creation. How do lies fit into that scheme I really don't understand.

I agree that teacher should not have been so impatient with children. The problem is that children get different explanations in their families, often incompetent, and in schools or otherwise.

The most common reason for lying to children is inability to understand that it is better to tell them the truth than believe that children are incompetent to understand it. It is better to do so and let them deal with truth in their own way and in their own time. Lying to them will definitely confuse them and they will have even harder time to wake up to reality.



[edit on 12-12-2008 by DangerDeath]

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by MemoryShock
This could be viewed as a microcosm event for larger 'delusions', such as equality, the American Dream and various other ideologies that invariably differ for every individual based on circumstance.

Why do we as a society lie to each other for the purpose of entertainment
and illusion?

Surely, there is no benefit to the parent for hoaxing their kids to believe in a non-existant entity. In fact, having a child with a realistic perception and an inquisitive mind would be preferable, I would think...

A lie is a lie...I certainly don't think that a lie motivated by 'the spirit of the holidays' is any more valid then a lie based on more malicious intentions...but that is my opinion.

It's still something that should be left to parents.

What if the teacher said there was no God? There is such thing as cultural sensibilities regardless of what one might see as truth.

Interaction with ones environment is essential for ones growth of understanding.

While the comparison between Santa Claus and God are pretty close in their authenticity, it is up to the child to see through the nets of illogical information and sort out their own understanding. The teacher was doing them a favor by offering up her understanding. The parents willingly sent their children into public education for their....education and such is taking place, there are alternatives but the parents took none.

that is so mean to tell little kids that Santa is not real. i think kids need the imagination and should not be taken away.

The trick is not to give children the finished product. Allow them to participate with their own creations. That way they will learn how to be responsible for their own magic. They will also learn how not to be fooled.

Originally posted by DangerDeath
By going to theater you are aware what is going to happen. You will experience the magic of creation. How do lies fit into that scheme I really don't understand.

I agree that teacher should not have been so impatient with children. The problem is that children get different explanations in their families, often incompetent, and in schools or otherwise.

The most common reason for lying to children is inability to understand that it is better to tell them the truth than believe that children are incompetent to understand it. It is better to do so and let them deal with truth in their own way and in their own time. Lying to them will definitely confuse them and they will have even harder time to wake up to reality.



[edit on 12-12-2008 by DangerDeath]

I find your logic strange. A child is nothing more then a clean slate from birth, to a certain age, and it`s never the same age for all kids. Now, why on earth would we want to take this clean slate, and dirty it long before it should be, by telling them about this so called reality of ours? So it`s better we dump our garbage(reality)on them when they are very young then? I don`t know which is worse, a simple story about Santa, or this garbage we call reality. You tell me, which is the bigger lie?



[edit on 12-12-2008 by FiatLux]

reply to post by FiatLux


You are not aware that you are dirtying them by lying to them?
Now, once they are big enough, they will have to use extra powers to clean themselves from all incorrect concepts. How is that going to help them? Will they have time for that? Will they have energy for that? It is an enormous task to deconstruct ones view and interpretation of world so meticously built up since childhood. It will certainly cause anxiety and exhaustion. Many people never recover from that, they keep believing in all the lies they are constantly being told about this "magical" reality that our world has become.

reply to post by DangerDeath


Oh, ok, so it`s better to dirty them with this reality then. Ok, I understand your logic now. A lot of thought put into that one I see. Wow

reply to post by FiatLux


So when and how did you understand that you've been lied to and how did you deal with that? I'm not talking just about Santa Claus.

I find it difficult to trust those who lie to me, and not on emotional level, but on the level of understanding things. How reliable can liars be?

And one more thing. How do you explain a "sudden" gap in parents - children relationship during adolescence. Certainly not with the fact that at that age children begin to realize how much lies they have been fed and now need a different source of information than those who failed them? Or maybe it can all be explained by psychological and biological reasons? it is the children who will insist on existing "misunderstanding" on the side of parents and will not trust them as they probably should.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by DangerDeath]

reply to post by DangerDeath



You want to make the story of Santa sound dirty and cheap like some red light district down town. Instead of brow beating the ones who tell the story of Santa, go down and brow beat those that partake in the reality of the red light district. You know, the red light district, a part of this so called reality you want little children to know about. Or is it that we don`t tell them about that? Why shouldn`t we, it`s just a small part of this reality. That`s ok, I`d rather stick with Santa thank you.

I mistrust anyone who wants children to grow up long before they should.


[edit on 12-12-2008 by FiatLux]

reply to post by Jkd Up


This shouldnt change the fact that it was never the teachers place to say this, and two, very immature on the teachers part to try and hurt the feelings of excited children.

Common sense goes quite a ways people...

reply to post by FiatLux


I've never been to red light district. And you know why? Because I know the truth about it.

As for Santa Claus, poor Santa Claus!

reply to post by West Coast


Their feelings will hurt only if they are being taught to feel sorry for themselves. And your concern for them is just that: you want them to feel like that. You insist that this is how they should feel, and you insist that this is how they must feel whenever the truth hits them. You don't even allow the possibility that they won't feel like that.

You better reconsider such attitude.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by DangerDeath]

what is sad is that these 7 yr olds were uneducated enough to still believe in Santa. As for the teacher being disciplined, well...I think he probably has some recourse, and is likely to take it.

Originally posted by DangerDeath
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Same as politicians - they lie, and lye is magical, right?
The whole system is built on this magic of lying and denial.

You act as if a lie is an inherently evil thing.

I disagree.

As far as magical, that's one way to describe the effect that can occur to someone who believes a lie. It's kinda like someone under the spell of hypnosis.

Now there are some lies, that are harmful. For example, the lie about SHOULD and SHOULDN'T. It was the first lie man really bought according to the allegory in Genesis.

And I'd have to agree, that in the Universe that is a Man, it is truly these illusions called good and evil that bring him his pain and force him out of the Garden.



[edit on 13-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]

&^@% Santa.

Santa does not equal childhood, christ-heads. I never believed in Santa, by that I mean I never bought it, I asked my older sister when I was four and she confirmed it. It was awful having to be told by my teacher not to tell the kids, but not as horrible as hearing them make up stories about seeing him. And by the way, that's not a beautiful thing. A child with such strong materialistic needs that he convinces himself that he's seen a historically innacurate version of a fat old person in their house. That's not cute, and even as a child I found it disturbing.

That teacher didn't do the right thing though. I never told. People are entitled to their superstitions. Sure it was the truth. Sure the kids are probably smarter and will learn to scrutinize information they hear from now on. But she shouldn't have said anything. Santa is part of their culture, and so must be respected.

What is wrong is depending on the Santa formula to give kids a nice holiday because that's how you experienced it. There are plenty of things that are real and noble to believe in. Like the opposite of waiting for a fat man to give you presents for doing what you should already do, otherwise known as charity. Oh, and Santa does prepare you for some real things though. Religion of course, and thirst for material gain. Two very real things that can help you be very successful in this world if you know how to wield them.

Don't tell your kids about Santa. Warn them about him. Let them be the smart kid in class who doesn't go ape$&!# whenever Santa is mentioned invariably along with a list of things to want. Forcing the teacher to tell them just to snap em out of it. You can still give presents without them being from Santa. You'll be able to take the kid shopping for his things, and if he's smart he'll prefer it. Being able to negotiate your presents right at the store so you get optimum amount and selection is actually more useful to the little capitalists christmas seems to create. And you can still surprise them with something else. AND THEY'LL THANK YOU, NOT SANTA.

Santa is only really good for two things, retail profit and helping you get used to dissapointment during your life.

[edit on 13-12-2008 by Notecreo]

[edit on 13-12-2008 by Notecreo]

[edit on 13-12-2008 by Notecreo]