Teacher tells 7 year-olds Santa's Fake.

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
This is easy to respond too...

WHO THINKS SANTA IS REAL?

Me and My son.

WHO THINKS LYING TO CHILDREN IS A GOOD IDEA?

Whoever said lying was a bad thing? Maybe when you say you will love you rhcild no matter what, then you find out their gay and you disown them... yeah that kinda lie is rather awful.

But lying in general? I don't think so. You might because of that 10 commandments BS, but I don't see anything other than a mythical tablet written in fire that says lying is bad.

Speaking of which.... what the heck? Come down from a mountain saying you've been speaking with God and then tell others that LYING is bad?

That's pretty audacious if you ask me.

Oh but we make special arrangements for Santa, Easter Bunnies and the tooth fairy. These lies are ok right? It is NEVER OK to lie to your children, what is wrong with the truth?

We also make special arrangements for the entire Bible...

As I have mentioned... walking on water, living in the belly of a whale, talking Donkeys etc....

We lie all the time when it helps us demonstrate something we believe in... like giving to people around Christmas.

The same goes for all those so called Christian families lying to their kids about the Birth of Christ. t wasn't on December 25th and there was NO WISE MEN at the manger. I am told it's just for the kids, it's a nice story, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE TRUTH?

Because Objective truth doesn't matter. What matters is the subjective experience.

Latter on in life when the children go to learn that these things are not real how easy is it for them to disregard GOD? He fits the same pattern does he not?

All the better. When I woke up from these lies, It caused a chain reaction which caused me to wake up to a LOT of LIES.

Like the Lie about Hard Work Now that's a lie of vast proportions perpetrated by well intentioned parents based on the traditions of the worker.

In the end, WE are responsible for our souls and no one else. Lies we learn in childhood grow up to become a reason not to trust the common socially prevailing ideas. I think it's wonderful.

All knowing, Al powerful, but you never see him, why would children who have been lied to about the fictional people believe that God existed after being lied to all their little lives?

The only reason someone should believe God exists is through their own experiences. I have a great relationship with my Universe, My God, whatever you want to call it, and it started in childhood, and continued when I woke up. I wouldn't have traded any of it.


The teacher, although well within her legal rights, should as an adult respect the beliefs of children.


[edit on 12-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by theodorej
As a young boy I decided to check out this santa claus crap....I discovered my uncle joe was santa....I caught him suiting up at about one in the morning just before we all were awaken to get our gifts from under the tree...which incidently belongs out side....as punishment I got coal (literally)for christmas(we had a coal stoker furnace in the basement)...
This really pissed me off..so when I returned to school (catholic School)at the time I was in the first grade....I told every one of my class mates of my experience and santa was alot of crap.....Sister Anastasia smacked the # out of me and called my parents.....You don't think this experience could have an adverse affect on me do you.....

Wow, that's crazy. I hadn't heard it break out into physical violence, but I was on the opposite end of the spectrum. My friends saw me as gullible for still trusting my parents. I followed those friends into situations I should not have gone because between my friends and parents, my friends seem to 'hold the truth'. Big mistake there.

As I look back this was an impressionable episode.....I draw my strength and wisdom from whence all things come and with that I have reduced this event to comedy which I share when the opportunity presents itself...

reply to post by theodorej


heh.. what caused your issue was the arse Uncle Joe giving you coal... not the lie about Santa.

I really do not mean to anger anyone with this post; however, it seems that the parents may be reacting this way because they themselves were not afforded the opportunity to correct their own little lie to their children and thus they feel as if it may affect their credibility with their children.

Often times we as parents and grandparents wonder why our children lie. The fact is that we breed liars. We ourselves teach children to lie. Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny, these are just some of the subtle methods we use to teach our children to lie. The results though are the same.

I am no better than anyone else before it is brought up, in fact being a psychologist, I am even worse because I probably understand the learning process better than most parents and yet I engage in the same activities.

A child's mind is like a big sponge, it absorbs everything, the only difference is that you can not wring out the bad stuff from their mind. As we engage in these innocent little white lies, we think we are doing the child a service when in actuality, we are in fact teaching them to lie. One must understand that a child's mind is not capable as an adults of distinguishing the difference between a white lie told for amusement from a dastardly lie. A child's mind does not incorporate logical reasoning, it works much the same way as a computer. It receives information, stores it and recalls it. It does not reason the information as their mind has not reached that stage of development yet. This is why you often hear children tell you stories they believe is true and when you ask them where they heard that from they tell you "my mommy told me" or "my teacher told me." The child believes everything they are told, they interpret information as fact and do not question it. As they begin to understand better (usually around age 7) you will hear them start to question conflicting information in a manner such as "Daddy are you teasing me?" Although they are in the beginning stages of developing reasoning skills, they still rely very heavily on those they trust for credible information, typically their parents or care givers.

I have thought about this very subject quite often with my grandchildren and how I should handle it. In the end, I decided to stick with the norm, although that is not to say it is the correct manner in which to do it. But it is good information to understand the next time your child lies to you and you ask them where they learned that, understand it was from you. Remember what I said they do not know the difference between lying about Santa Clause and lying about hitting their brother. To the child's mind you have given them another tool to incorporate into their psyche and they will use this tool whenever it is needed.

Merry Christmas to everyone!


[edit on 12/12/2008 by DarrylGalasso]

reply to post by HunkaHunka


We usually don't agree I have found, but at leas you are a civil person that puts forth your ideas and you respond to the points, whether I agree with them or not.

I guess I don't have to say it this time but I disagree with most everything you say. But I starred you anyways for being a GOOD ATS poster by being civil and articulate, EVEN THOUGH WRONG!

I guess to many of you I am a horrible parent because I have 'lied' to my children about the existance of Santa and continue to do so. Not only do my children believe in Santa, they also believe that THEY have the 'power' to be Santa and bring happiness and miracles to others. I was taught the same thing when I was growing up so when I found out Santa was not real I wasn't devastated or angry with my parents for 'lying'. I knew that even if Santa wasn't real, the meaning and message behind Santa was real.

For a child to believe in Santa and experience first hand the magic of having a wish come true is one of the most valuable ways to teach them that they can bring that feeling to another person - and once they do something that brings 'magic' into the life of another they enjoy it so much it becomes addicting. They recognize that it truly is far better to give than to receive.

I'm pretty sure that my children have their doubts about Santa because of what they hear at school and it's highly possible that they know that Santa isn't real but just go along with it because it's fun. But considering that all four of my daughters have been nicknamed "The Ghandi's of (school name)", I think that something my husband and I are doing must be a little bit right.

Merry Christmas and I hope that each of you has a Santa in your life that will bring you a miracle this season and throughout the entire year!

Jemison

reply to post by DarrylGalasso


You really think that a Lie about Santa Claus is the same as a Lie to avoid getting in trouble for something you did wrong?

Wow...

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by DarrylGalasso

 

You really think that a Lie about Santa Claus is the same as a Lie to avoid getting in trouble for something you did wrong?

Wow...

I will not even respond to you sir as every time we post on the same thread you find it necessary to ridicule me. Please do it to someone else henceforth as I will not respond to you. You have already stated on another thread that you have no respect for psychologist or psychiatrist so anything I say to you would be met with hostility anyway. Merry Christmas to you.

[edit on 12/12/2008 by DarrylGalasso]

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

We usually don't agree I have found, but at leas you are a civil person that puts forth your ideas and you respond to the points, whether I agree with them or not.

I guess I don't have to say it this time but I disagree with most everything you say. But I starred you anyways for being a GOOD ATS poster by being civil and articulate, EVEN THOUGH WRONG!

Very true! There are lots of things that we DO however agree with. I've seen them in many places. At the end we are both Humanists I believe.

I too though enjoy your posts and often find my self starring them even if I don't agree. Thank you for your kind words.

As a parent, it is my decision what I tell my children and when.
This, compiled with with a lot of other cr@p I see is none of the school's business and has nothing to do with reading writing and rithmitic...

Stay out of our personal lives

Originally posted by DarrylGalasso

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by DarrylGalasso

 

You really think that a Lie about Santa Claus is the same as a Lie to avoid getting in trouble for something you did wrong?

Wow...

I will not even respond to you sir as every time we post on the same thread you find it necessary to ridicule me. Please do it to someone else henceforth as I will not respond to you.

First off.. you did respond to me


Second, I'm not ridiculing you, I just find it amazing that someone as educated as you are ( 7 years I think it was). Generalizes that a lie to get out of trouble is the same as a lie about the easter bunny.

Sorry, I was just taken aback there. It's just that to me, it's as if you said that killling in self defense is the same as a serial killer.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]

[edit on 12-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
This is easy to respond too...

WHO THINKS SANTA IS REAL?

WHO THINKS LYING TO CHILDREN IS A GOOD IDEA?

Oh but we make special arrangements for Santa, Easter Bunnies and the tooth fairy. These lies are ok right? It is NEVER OK to lie to your children, what is wrong with the truth?

Amen! Not much more to say there!

This is not a one liner! A one liner would be: "My girl's so ugly, I took her to a plastic surgeon he handed her a tail..."

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by theodorej
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Just as an added comment with respect to your belief in God or lack of same.....It is a wise man that understands when it comes to God and his plan or perogatives what we think or believe DOES NOT MATTER....

I couldn't agree with you more.


However, I do believe that in the spehere of social etiquette we should respect the mythical beliefs of our fellow citizens. As the one thing we can say about them all is that they are the context we place around the events which happen in our lives.

Are you interested in supporting or agreeing with my mytical beliefs that I hold to be true but in your heart of hearts you know are nonsense...
Wise up clear your head....you will find that the vast majority of people believe things and they don't know why.....

Originally posted by theodorej

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by theodorej
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Just as an added comment with respect to your belief in God or lack of same.....It is a wise man that understands when it comes to God and his plan or perogatives what we think or believe DOES NOT MATTER....

I couldn't agree with you more.


However, I do believe that in the spehere of social etiquette we should respect the mythical beliefs of our fellow citizens. As the one thing we can say about them all is that they are the context we place around the events which happen in our lives.

Are you interested in supporting or agreeing with my mytical beliefs that I hold to be true but in your heart of hearts you know are nonsense...
Wise up clear your head....you will find that the vast majority of people believe things and they don't know why.....

Yep... and that includes me. My beliefs are just as suspect as those who live outside of my own mind. I don't think my beliefs, scientific, mythical or otherwise, are any better than your beliefs. That's because I don't believe that "being right" is a worhtwhile pursuit. I do however believe that "being happy" is a worthwhile pursuit.

Once again, those are just my beliefs. And are as useless to you as your beliefs are to me. So why can't we just agree to respect the beliefs of others?

You see "nonsense" is in the mind of the beholder. And many religions are based on getting their adherents to believe "nonsense" in an attempt to break their mind out of the common thoughs of the world.

You ever look at discordiansim?

I guess what I am saying is that I know in my heart of hearts that what I believe is nonsense to begin with. However I have a "Working truth" that fits my experience to now. Your beliefs are just as much nonsense whether they concur with mine or not. It's because we get them through very limited senses which are themself fallible.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]

Some of these posts are mind numbing IMO. That is ok, the world needs scrooges too.

I enjoy the Christmas season, I enjoy Santa, I enjoy elves, I enjoy the spirituality of the season. Most of all, I enjoy the innocence of the season.

I cherish the innocence of the season!! Our society is rapidly losing its grasp on innocence. There is such a rush to make kids grow up to fast. Look at the crap we are bombarded with every day in all of the media outlets. Eight year olds with blackberrys , IPODS, PSPs carried with them everywhere they go. Eight year olds with carpal tunnel syndrome. Grade school girls idolizing Britney Spears or whoever the tramp of the day is.

I am proud father of twin two year olds. I get a rush like no other when I see their eyes light up around a Christmas tree, when they see Santa, or when they find our resident "Elf on the Shelf" named Kramer. The cascade of poinsettias in church is a scene like no other. I could go on and on...

I don't even remember when I found out the truth about Santa. It didn't matter. We always got a special gift from Santa all the way through college. I never stopped believing in the spirit of the season. Santa is always welcome in my house. We even carry a special Santa key when we travel over the Holiday just so Santa can find us.

To the Santa skeptic. In the words of Buddy the Elf, you are a cotton headed ninny muggins.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by theodorej

 

heh.. what caused your issue was the arse Uncle Joe giving you coal... not the lie about Santa.

WRONG !! ....LEARN !! It was the orchastrated LIE !!!

Originally posted by jibeho
Some of these posts are mind numbing IMO. That is ok, the world needs scrooges too.

I enjoy the Christmas season, I enjoy Santa, I enjoy elves, I enjoy the spirituality of the season. Most of all, I enjoy the innocence of the season.

I cherish the innocence of the season!! Our society is rapidly losing its grasp on innocence. There is such a rush to make kids grow up to fast. Look at the crap we are bombarded with every day in all of the media outlets. Eight year olds with blackberrys , IPODS, PSPs carried with them everywhere they go. Eight year olds with carpal tunnel syndrome. Grade school girls idolizing Britney Spears or whoever the tramp of the day is.

I am proud father of twin two year olds. I get a rush like no other when I see their eyes light up around a Christmas tree, when they see Santa, or when they find our resident "Elf on the Shelf" named Kramer. The cascade of poinsettias in church is a scene like no other. I could go on and on...

I don't even remember when I found out the truth about Santa. It didn't matter. We always got a special gift from Santa all the way through college. I never stopped believing in the spirit of the season. Santa is always welcome in my house. We even carry a special Santa key when we travel over the Holiday just so Santa can find us.

To the Santa skeptic. In the words of Buddy the Elf, you are a cotton headed ninny muggins.

Awesome post!

Starred!

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by theodorej

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by theodorej
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Just as an added comment with respect to your belief in God or lack of same.....It is a wise man that understands when it comes to God and his plan or perogatives what we think or believe DOES NOT MATTER....

AH YES! we have common ground and I might add routed in respect !!

I couldn't agree with you more.


However, I do believe that in the spehere of social etiquette we should respect the mythical beliefs of our fellow citizens. As the one thing we can say about them all is that they are the context we place around the events which happen in our lives.

Are you interested in supporting or agreeing with my mytical beliefs that I hold to be true but in your heart of hearts you know are nonsense...
Wise up clear your head....you will find that the vast majority of people believe things and they don't know why.....

Yep... and that includes me. My beliefs are just as suspect as those who live outside of my own mind. I don't think my beliefs, scientific, mythical or otherwise, are any better than your beliefs. That's because I don't believe that "being right" is a worhtwhile pursuit. I do however believe that "being happy" is a worthwhile pursuit.

Once again, those are just my beliefs. And are as useless to you as your beliefs are to me. So why can't we just agree to respect the beliefs of others?

You see "nonsense" is in the mind of the beholder. And many religions are based on getting their adherents to believe "nonsense" in an attempt to break their mind out of the common thoughs of the world.

You ever look at discordiansim?

I guess what I am saying is that I know in my heart of hearts that what I believe is nonsense to begin with. However I have a "Working truth" that fits my experience to now. Your beliefs are just as much nonsense whether they concur with mine or not. It's because we get them through very limited senses which are themself fallible.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]

Originally posted by theodorej

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by theodorej

 

heh.. what caused your issue was the arse Uncle Joe giving you coal... not the lie about Santa.

WRONG !! ....LEARN !! It was the orchastrated LIE !!!

An orchestrated lie is not a tangible item so it couldn't possibly have been the reason for your suffering. Unless it was the coal... that was pretty tangible.

reply to post by theodorej


Hey.. I saw your post just now, but think the quote's are bit messed up.