Just wondering, why do so many of you seem to hate Jesus?

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

That's a good point? Why is the rhetoric still thrown around?

Considered the bible is supposed to be inspired by God, you'd the think just a little of that inspiration would rub off on the christians.

Like a good Christian, I will spread the love of our people. You who believe differently will be enslaved and murderd. No, burned and tortured. No, drown and thrown off cliffs, wait stoned, no, persecuted, outlawed, lambasted, protested, hated....etc...am I a good Christian yet?

Originally posted by dominicus
So according to your assumptions or preconceived notions or maybe even your own experience, someone who has undergone "Ego Death" sounds like what?????

Cause to be honest with you, someone who has it would never attack Christianity, (they'd see the truth in it) nor say most the things you said. Honestly, someone with Ego death wouldnt say anything at all, would just Love everyone unconditionally.

Hey, Dominicus, you are forgetting the fact that, whilst I understand what 'ego death' is, I'm not the one claiming to have undergone 'ego death', you are.

But, in order to make statements about "things" an ego dead person, has to pick back up 1 piece of these million pieces of shattered ego ....to put on a mask and make a statement in defense of something. I am defending Ego death, saying it's real ....if no one ever said it, no one would ever know about it, that its real, that if you truly walk the walk as far as what jesus taught, you will have it.

Who has said 'ego death' isn't real? Not me, is this yet another strawman in this thread?

So it feels to me that your attacking me and my profession of ego death, simply by the virtue that I am professing this and defending it as the highest possible reality on this planet.

If that's the case, then you're wrong. It's your 'holier than thou' attitude that I'm attacking. Whether you see it or not, you appear to have it from where I'm standing.

Am I anymore special than anyone else .......HECK NO .... I never ever said that and never will so you can automatically set aside all your "labels" that you have of me .....because in reality my true label is infinite and eternal and is impossible to put a label on, as is yours when you realize it one day

Yes, you have. Apparently your each and every day is just filled with this awesome that you're arrogant enough to think that my own day just couldn't possibly be filled with. That's the difference between us, I don't doubt your day is filled with "awesome", however you seemed fairly certain that my day wouldn't be.

Besides, I'd get on my hands and knees, wash your feet, give you the last shirt I own off my back, last dollar in my wallet, take a bullet for you, a run away car w/ a drunk drive driving, your pain, your jail time ....whatever it is I would take it from you ....only possible because of Ego death, I take up my cross and follow the footsteps of my savior. I Love you even though you label me with assumed labels that I know Im not and everyone who knows me personally knows Im not.

Before being a Christian Mystic tho, I woulda not even looked if you were about to get hit by a car, shot, stabbed whatever. Back then that was your problem not mine.

But Now, I wish to take everybodies pain and suffering and take it on myself in order to put you at ease. This is a faculty that comes w/ Enlightenment.

Yes, that's great. However, I'd be more impressed with someone who was so selfless but didn't make such a big issue of it. You seem to be one of those people - not necessarily Christian - who wave their arms about going on about how giving and self-sacrificing they are. Also, it's a very important point but everything you describe aren't specifically Christian practices. I have a similar credo and I'm not a Christian. Funny that isn't it? Or do you want to make this isn't to another sad competition - like the 'awesome' thing? - how your giving and selflessness would be somehow better than mine?

There is only those that have enlightenment and those that do not. Both are united in God and God loves both groups unconditionally. Oh and those that dont have Enlightenment dont understand those that do, Jesus said that it would all be "foolishness to their ears"

Yeah, we're getting to the nub now. It is one of those 'my god is bigger than your god' things.

Do you have Enlightenment???? Well I cant call that, but I will say if you were deep into Spiritual Enlightenment, you would have never labeled me as "smugg" or "contrite" or any of those other labels you so frequently used.

Instead we'd be on the same wavelength, Pure Love, and you'd know yourself that theres truth in the Jesus path.

It doesn't matter whether I said I was enlightened or not. I could have accreditation from the Bureau of Enlightenment and it still wouldn't cut it with you because I'm not a Christian; I don't have the kind of enlightenment or spiritual/religious belief or practice that you privilege over other beliefs or practices. To you, I'll always have a fake or lesser enlightenment and fake religious/spiritual belief.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by Merriman Weir]

[edit on 20-11-2008 by Merriman Weir]

reply to post by angel of lightangelo


No dude, you misunderstood the purpose of my post. I was trying to back your post.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir


It doesn't matter whether I said I was enlightened or not. I could have accreditation from the Bureau of Enlightenment and it still wouldn't cut it with you because I'm not a Christian;...

Pfffffft. Everyone knows that the BOE is totally a party bureau.

reply to post by grover


I go to a church in Canada called the Meeting House -- their motto is "A Church for People not into Church" and their goal is to recover the teachings of Jesus from religion. The church is full of refugees from churches who have been badly damaged by religion and Christian culture.

Ironically this church built to be anti-religion and anti-Church is now the most popular church in all of Canada.

Originally posted by dominicus
Just wondering, why do so many of you seem to hate Jesus?

I dont think its right to hate Jesus because allot of "so called" Christians give him a bad name.

Also, I dont think its right to say "because he's religion." Jesus was himself bashing religion and teaching a way of life that leads to enlightenment and allowing you to experience God directly, beyond words, selfless Love, and all that other good stuff.

It just seems soooo many of you here hate him, or try to use the minority .0001% argument that he never existed, meaning you'd be up against 99.999% of academia on that one.

I argue that if you genuinely and sincerely followed what he preached, then you would directly experience these enlightenments and they would be sufficient enough for you to realize all this God stuff, incl. Jesus, is real talk.

Whereas if you haven't walk the Christ path sincerely and genuinely, then your're merely speculating, as an outsider, about a direct experience that you have no clue about.

Why do so many of you hate/attack what you don't, directly as an experience of the Divine, understand???????

well, for one thing, there you go and say people "hate" jesus, which is simply a lie. i have not seen one post where someone says they "hate" jesus. this is the tactic used to discredit critics of religous "people", not of their god. inflamatory, yes...true, no.

We do not hate Jesus.
We have no problem with Jesus.
We all know that Jesus did and tried to do nothing but good.

It is the Churches and Organized Religions that we hate; their self serving lies, their hypocrisy; their evil.

I have so many personal experiences and observations that my loathing for all churches and Christian Religions is first hand. I have watched how your organizations have treated the poor, the hurting, the needy that surrounded your cross covered churches; watched what you did when the weak were being murdered; watched what you did about Waco and here recently when our G.D. Government took those children.

I am of the opinion that if there is a hell, those who have falsely claimed the blood of Jesus and stood by and did nothing for the bag lady, the poor and abused, are going there.

There are good people but, they calling themselves Christians means nothing.

More over, the most evil group on the planet earth are the Holy Roman Church and the Jesuits.

Every thought, every deed is written on each of our souls and none will escape what and who they really are.

Jesus was wonderful, you people just don't have any business hiding behind him as he would not claim you anymore than I do.

Originally posted by dominicus
Just wondering, why do so many of you seem to hate Jesus?

1) He had long hair
2) That whole 'holier-than-thou' attitude
3) He smashed up the temple but when Peter cuts some guy's ear off defending him he gets rebuked! Jesus, make your mind up!
4) His anti-fig tree agenda - what had that tree ever done to him? It wasn't even fig season!
5) He was cruel to animals - he sent a load of demons into a herd of pigs which then ran over a cliff and died. Poor piggies. I'm sure that little donkey wasn't too thrilled to carry him into Jerusalem either.
6) Tardiness. He's not exactly rushing to come back and save us all is he?
7) Ineffectual. He's the Son of the Supreme Being right? He could have left us with cures for all known diseases, rid the world of suffering. He cured some lepers but didn't think to eradicate the disease. Thanks Jesus!


Hehe just kidding. Jesus you're da bomb!

They hate Christians (yeah ok so some of you think we deserve to be hated ..whatever) ....And Jesus they HOPE does not exist .....because if he did they would have to admit that they may have been wrong about alot of things .

Here's my reasons for going off on Jesus. and BTW- I used to be a christian. I resigned.

I have been rendered so ugly to the eyes of women, no one wants me, let alone marry me.

I have talent leaking out of my ears, and yet, when I use said talents to further my life- I am hit with disaster after disaster.

Prayer DOES NOT WORK if you're poor. Prayer works mighty fine for the rich christians!

The aforementioned rich Christians find me mildly amusing- but the second I gain any ground, I am slammed face first INTO the ground. These are the same ones who prosper while I fail.

I hear " I will help you, comfort you, ect ect ect"- WANNA BET? I am alone, poor, ugly, my self esteem is so low, it hears people speaking chinese thru the dirt, And I really dont give a rat's rump how I look, if I live or die, nothing.

My all time fave: I came out of church, depressed, lonely, ect. Pastor goes by me, gets in his expensive car with his family, looks me in the eye, and tells me " well, Jesus said it wouldn't be easy" and DROVE OFF.

Now, you wanna tell me why I should love someone who advocates using the poor like a roll of TP? Someone who allows and obviously rewards abuse of the poor and downtrodden? And no Bible quoting. I heard all the words... what I see are actions.

reply to post by wylekat

Your pastor was right, Jesus said we would have tribulation as we try to live righteously.
Him driving in a really nice car.......... I hate the fact that many mega-churches has a rich pastor who drives some of the best cars and yet they take money from little old ladies.


I have been REALLY poor and then I was closer to Jesus, spiritually than ever!
We had garbage bags over broken windows in the winter, with children. No phone, no T.V., sometimes no car. No electricity, sometimes, but, my children treated it like camping out and we had gas heat.
Only the meagerest of food.
Clothes that I had to safety pin on.

But, we had enough to live. We had chickens outside and collard greens.
You think YOU'RE ugly?
You haven't seen me in the morning, bless my husband's heart!

I don't hate Jesus. I doubt that he existed, but if he did, the moral teachings attributed to him are admirable, to say the least. I HATE Christians who think that their interpretations of holy books are the only correct ones, and who feel compelled to push these interpretations down other peoples' throats, right along with their morality, which is just as misguided as anyone's.

I sincerely hope that some obscure tribe had it right, and when Christian missionaries destroyed their religion, they destroyed all testament to that god. Then, when Christians die, some kind of pig-spider-turtle will be like "WTF WERE YOU THINKING!?!?!?! Lake of fire for you!"

Because that would be hilarious.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by '___'eviant]

reply to post by wylekat


Inrespect to you, Sir. The "problem" is that you asked the church, the priests-the church people. It isn't about asking humans to help a nother human, it is and has always been about asking God, to help human. God allows humans for freewill to pray to him, or if you would prefer to pray to Jesus. Having faith to ask a fellow human for help will only result in corruption and pain, since humans is sin (Thanks for Eve for that). If you truely seek the help that you are looking for, then I ask if you can open your heart and have faith with praying to Jesus, or God. I am telling you this in a none christian way, since I do not beive in being a "christian".

I actually respect Jesus. It is what was done to his message that is disappointing. He was pretty much anti-establishment and non-judgmental. He was not for the Pharisees in his day and I doubt he would be up for hanging out with the Pharisees of this day.

It is kinda creepy and will make people angry but, I believe Christianity to be the "One World Religion" in Revelations. This is either through beliefs or forcing laws that adhere to current Christian beliefs, or by war.

As far as God answering the prayers of the rich ..and that only rich people are catered to by God ..
That is NOT TRUE ..he said we would not have the RICHES OF THIS WORLD ..our riches are not worldy type riches ...and so if someone has riches they are more than likely of the world ...

Many of my prayers get answered and I am poor ..always have been ...

[edit on 20-11-2008 by Simplynoone]

An interesting question.

I personally do not "hate" Jesus at all, but I'm going to try to clarify why people tend to bash Christianity (and thus Jesus).

First of all, you made the claim that 99.999% (or something like that) of academia agrees that Jesus did, in fact, exist. Sorry bud, but that's just false. No one knows that any Biblical figures were actually real. There is a field of study you may want to look into called "Historicity" (yes, it is a real word). In general terms, it is the study of the veracity of various historical claims, and whether or not they are truly a part of history or just myth. In this context, you might Google the phrase "Historicity of Jesus Christ." Keep in mind that this field is not subject to the bias of religious arguments, it only goes by the known historical record. It is also applied to Judaism, Islam etc.. Generally, this is not taught in schools as it might be deemed offensive. Schools don't really try to prove or disprove religion, but they teach all religions, and Jesus is often mentioned during Roman history. After all, our calendar is based on his supposed birth date. Academia is thus more neutral on the issue, but most scholars who objectively study Jesus will tell that there is really no legitimate evidence that he existed (or, much less, was the son of God). But please, do your own objective research.

Second of all, it is a known fact by now that the Bible has been altered many times throughout history. The Bible you read now (probably the King James version?) is not even close to the original form. Again, you should research this yourself. The original version probably only exists deep within the Vatican Library, if it all, and it is doubtful that they will ever release it because of the great differences it would have with the modern version(s).

And, saving the most obvious for last, the people on this forum (myself included) tend to share the view that Christianity his been a tool of mass manipulation of the common man ever since its rise to power under Constantine (probably the true reason why he made it the official state religion of ancient Rome...it was gaining popularity and it proved to be a very powerful belief system that people easily latched on to). Once the Church had power then you had more than a thousand years of horrible atrocities committed in the name of Jesus. Inquisition. Crusades. Witch Trials. The destruction and stamping out of any opposing belief systems. There's plenty more.

Now don't get me wrong...many Christians today, and throughout history, have been wonderful people who have done good works and are just following a religion as anyone would. But you have to get to the core and see it for what it is...the higher authorities of Christianity have seemingly been in the business of creating a spiritual hegemony for over 1000 years. Jesus may have been real, and was probably a good person who honestly believed in what it was that he was teaching (though son of God? that is probably something that was added later in order to strengthen the doctrine and dogma). But the religion he spawned has been, at it's core, a negative force in the world (on the whole, historically), more than a positive one.

Think about it...as a follower of Christianity, how much of a chance have you ever given the hundreds (probably thousands) of other unique spiritual belief systems that have existed throughout history? Christianity is such a dominant force because history just played out that way, and it teaches that what it says is ABSOLUTE TRUTH and claims ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY over all things. Many people have realized that such doctrines are destructive, false, and probably being used to manipulate people and steer them away from knowledge of real cosmic truth, which empowers the few who actually know it.

By the way, the same goes for all major religions. Personally, I would say trust none of them.



Hope this helps you understand, but look into it for yourself.

Cheers.

reply to post by wylekat


wylekat,

Appreciate your transparency here....shame on the pastor for being so thoughtless!!!!!!

There are those of us (Christians) who are pissed off at other so-called for being idiots!!!

OT is prayin for you!!

Something that has always been helpful to me was four simple words...

"THIS, TOO, SHALL PASS!"

It's an encouragment when times are hard...

It's a warning when times are good...

If you are inclined take a listen to this entire talk and let me know what you think...ok...please?

Here... It's Friday, But Sunday's Coming ... www.tonycampolo.org...

reply to post by suterlaben


The bible WAS invented for MAN to over power other MAN. So, about 95% of the bible is c.r.a.p./false. I can tell you that Jesus is real, he is, aswell as God is within the 'Kingdom Of God'. I know with 'personal experience'.

reply to post by jimmyx


Couldn't agree more dude, I've yet to see one post where anyone claims to hate jesus. hating Jesus is absurd, it's like hating Santa Clause.

Christianity on the other hand does deserve some hating when its acted upon but, nevertheless, if not acted upon it's equally absurd as hating "The Force".

Today I tried to think of the benefits of christianity and could think of one (so far) which only apply to those who are "real" chistians.


If the turd does hit the fan in 2012 and we're ( meaning the not deluded) areall starving, no worries. As christians have no objection to sacrifice then I would expect them to offer themselves up as food.

By all account human meat is much like pork, so we'll have a double whammy because the muslims would certainly not want a bite of my sandwich. Mormon meat would probably be a premium because that would be pretty organic I would imagine.

The sheep that will taste like pork MMMMMMMM

Originally posted by gordonwest
reply to post by suterlaben

 

The bible WAS invented for MAN to over power other MAN. So, about 95% of the bible is c.r.a.p./false. I can tell you that Jesus is real, he is, aswell as God is within the 'Kingdom Of God'. I know with 'personal experience'.

Dude the next time your spending time with the Jesusgod can you ask him a few questions for me, or better still arrange a meet ?