Nothing in chemtrails... yeahhh riiiiight...Photos

reply to post by Chadwickus


The only problem with that is all that will test is the soil and the air, not what's actually in these "chemtrails". They'll need to get their hands on a jet and fly through a trail taking measurements.

Or not, and just scream really loudly that they know they are "chemtrails" and stamp their little feet until everyone agrees.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by TruthTellist

 

TT...WHY would NATO member Nations 'spray' on their own citizens?

they already have..and admitted it...in the 70s the british government did spray the population...

reply to post by vonspurter


Well, I'm 100% certain any trained - or, indeed, untrained - meteorologists could readily answer Oz's questions

Anyway, unless someone can offer a means of identifying chemtrails, or indeed, offer an explanation as to why they'd be visible in the first place, it's all moot.

Q: What does a chemtrail look like?

A: Exactly like a contrail in every respect

Q: Under what circumstances can chemtrails be seen?

A: Only when atmospheric conditions are suitable for the formation of persistent contrails.

Q: Do chemtrail believers know what normal contrails look like, how and why they form, and how they behave?

A: No

Q: Why not?

A: Good question, it's been explained to them often enough!

reply to post by alienesque


Got any evidence? I can wait...

Originally posted by alienesque

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by TruthTellist

 

TT...WHY would NATO member Nations 'spray' on their own citizens?

they already have..and admitted it...in the 70s the british government did spray the population...

Tests carried out by Porton Down scientists to replicate a chemical or biological attack by the Russians

www.guardian.co.uk...

Oddly enough, such tests did not produce huge visible clouds, thus proving they were not chemtrails

[edit on 17-11-2008 by Essan]

reply to post by Essan


"Oddly enough, such tests did not produce huge visible clouds, thus proving they were not chemtrails"

Weather modification, NATO's Aerosolized Defense Grid and biological/chemical warfare testing are not the same thing - No comparison can be drawn. You know that.

Your Strawman argument is far too obvious. You feign ignorance.

Edit:

[edit on 17-11-2008 by TruthTellist]

Originally posted by vonspurter
Now you're all getting silly. Do you really think every qualified pilot / meteorologist could answer the questions you've posed in their relevant discipline.

I don't know meteorology to a level to ask pertinent questions, so I am asking aviations ones. He claims to be a pilot, so they are valid questions. If he is a private pilot, then he will probably not be able to answer them, but he is also not going to have the level of knowledge that someone like WW will about contrails, as most private aircraft do not fly at those altitudes. ANY commercial pilot, mechanic, or professional aviation person should have little problems with the questions I posed. I know that Zaphod can answer them and he is not even a pilot.

Lets just give him the time to answer them, and then when the answers are finally posted you'll see that most of these things would be impossible for a true pilot to not know about their aircraft. I'll let the last question slide as its more of a ramp question. We'll call it a bonus question.

Here is the list so far of supporting links provided by Chemtrail Theorists to this discussion

(I would like to thank those members who took the time and effort to contribute such relevant data, your efforts are appreciated.)

www.chycho.com... - Germany admits chemtrail operations

www.rense.com... - Chemtrails coming out the closet

www.evergreenaviation.com... - Evergreen aviation spray planes

home.iae.nl... - Chemical testing admitted

thomas.loc.gov...:H.R.2977.IH: - Kucinich bill HR.2977

globalresearch.ca... - Weather modification

weatherwars.info... - weatherwars

www.redding.com... - news article

www.bbsradio.com... - radio article

www.holmestead.ca... - chem link

members.aol.com... - chem link 2

educate-yourself.org... - educate yourself chemlink 3

www.holmestead.ca... - evergreen cia front

www.carnicom.com... - carnicom 1

www.abovetopsecret.com... - ats thread

www.holmestead.ca... - more cia link

www.carnicom.com... - carnicom 2

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com... - forbidden knowledge chemtrails link

www.alienzoo.com... - alien zoo link

home.iae.nl... - chemical testing admission

www.sourcewatch.org... - cia links

www.lewrockwell.com... - cia tie in 2

www.abovetopsecret.com... - another ats thread

www.bariumblues.com... - barium blues

www.abovetopsecret.com... - bioweapons tested on citizens

www.carnicom.com... - aircraft mechanics claim

www.apfn.org... - biological experiments on citizens

foia.state.gov... - foia link

www.lib.berkeley.edu... - declassified documents

www.wramc.army.mil... - walter reed army docs

www.wramc.army.mil... -

creeping nematodes

www.chemtrailcentral.com... - Chemtrail central

weatherwars.info... - weather wars

www.youtube.com... - scott stevens youtube vid

illuminatimatrix.wordpress.com... - alt chemtrail view

www.rense.com... - weather modification rense

www.chycho.com... - german army admits spraying

news.bbc.co.uk... - usa admits chem weapons testing

www.timesonline.co.uk... - times online article

globalresearch.ca... - canadian site

www.abovetopsecret.com... - ATS thread

www.infowars.com... - info wars link

en.wikipedia.org... - wiki chemtrails

www.youtube.com... youtube vid , toxic sky

www.metacafe.com... toxic sky part 2

video.google.com... google video, clouds of death

www.bariumblues.com... haarp patent

www.montalk.net... montalk cloudbusting info

www.youtube.com... youtube search cloudbusting

www.freepatentsonline.com... patents list

www.patentstorm.us... patents list 2

video.google.com...# - google video wilhelm reich

www.geocities.co.jp... torsion fields

chem11.proboards2.com... - chemtrails discussion

www.exopolitics.org.uk... - chemtrails and orbs

www.bariumblues.com... orbs photo'd

www.youtube.com... youtube vid

www.rense.com... more rense research

www.novavax.com... novax site

www.montalk.net... - chemtrails and sars

www.guardian.co.uk... - newspaper story

www.youtube.com... youtube vid

www.proliberty.com... - proliberty site

www.myhero.com... - dr rosalie bertell biography

www.youtube.com... dr rosalie bertell states chemtrails real

www.youtube.com... dr rosalie bertell on haarp

www.whale.to... chemtrails site

www.youtube.com... youtube cloudbuster search

www.youtube.com... youtube cloudbuster search 2

www.uow.edu.au... sci fraud

seattlepi.nwsource.com... sci article 1

www.nature.com... sci article 2

physicsandphysicists.blogspot.com... sci article 3

More to come.... Thanks to all those members who contribute data for us to examine.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by TruthTellist]

reply to post by TruthTellist


No, we need evidence from actual scientists operating in an official capacity where direct samples from a contrail have been analysed and determined to be something other than water and traces of jet fuel exhaust.

A bunch of links to sites that don't cite their sources, or have no idea what the scientific method is, doesn't count. I know it fits in with your beliefs, but that doesn't constitute evidence.

Science is hard. Posting links to paranoid, irrational websites is easy.

Edit: This is getting stupid. You are posting a bunch of links to sites that don't even have anything to do with what we are discussing. HAARP? Come on! Anyone who knows anything about HAARP knows what it does, that there are many sites like it around the world, and have a basic understanding of the physics at play. This is not getting anyone anywhere, as it has nothing to do with investigating this alleged phenomenon that has no basis in any evidence collected anywhere by anyone at any time.

[edit on 17/11/08 by dave420]

reply to post by TruthTellist


Okay MR. Pilot rather then spamming a bunch of links, hows about spamming us some answers?
Or can't you?

See... I know that Zaphod is who he says, because we have talked many times in chat, and we worked for different divisions of the same company. WW and me started talking via U2U back when he first started here, and come to find out he was a pilot for the airlines I used to run the ramp for, and flew into our station. Both even knew people who I used to work with out there. OZ has posted his actual work contact information in other chemtrail threads on ATS. So they have already passed their test IMHO.

Now John Lear, who people here revered so much, was unable to answer even basic “Hand Signal” questions (emergency shut down on engine #, and your engine is on fire), so I never had one ounce of respect for his supposed knowledge. As a matter of fact I truly think that JL used to be two different people using the same account, as one knew his stuff and the other did not.

I have been sent a message from TurthTellist that he has placed me on his Ignore list, and that I am supposedly harassing him by asking him to answer questions to validate his claim to be a pilot. Since we are not going to obviously get an answer I'll leave it up to the real pilots here to answer if they want, or I can simply post the answers myself otherwise.

Either way I think that we can discount a person who does not know that the ”BlackBox” is in the tail of an aircraft, as not really being a pilot. To bad we cannot change his name to TurthNOTTellist.

If the government wanted to 'poison' the populate, there are much more effective means of doing it. Spraying is a terrible method of delivery. Do you realize how much of pesticide spray misses the intended targer? Often over 90%. And that's when a plane is flying considerably lower.

Regardless, if they as much as some of you claim they do, there would be AMPLE evidence in the soil and water. There would have to be. Do you deny that? It's not a guess, it's a fact. It would be prevailant in the water and soil. Very much so, since they are supposedly spraying in high population areas, and these areas are tested more than any other.

Why can't commercial companies (like the one I work for), find them then? There is nothing out of the ordinary. If there were, they would notice, I guarantee it. The equipment used is amazing now. When plugged into a computer, these instruments do an amazing job of breaking down samples. It finds everything. You are under some assumption they say "ok.. find asbestos!" and that's all it looks for. No.. it finds all chemicals in the soil or water, and breaks it down in some rather complex graphs and databases I don't begin to understand. But our chemists do. And there is nothing out of the ordinary.

For example: They might go to a site, take a sample, expecting to find excessive amounts of a certain hazerdous material. They usually find the expected stuff, and occasionaly may rarely find minute traces of this or that, but well beyond any danger level. But it still detects them. If something might be a concern, they let the client know.

And for some businesses (including the military), they have multitudes of test sites. And test several times a DAY in some cases. Until an area is clean. And then they continue to test it for a period of time after.

The point is that if there was massive amount of chemicals being sprayed on us, this stuff would send normal readings off the charts. For example: in a day, they might get samples from 9 different locations in and around Denver (I'm in Denver.. and since some claim this common around DIA now, this is a good spot to test for this!). They actually do quite a bit more than I believe, but we'll just say 9. If a mass of chemicals were being sprayed, that common chemical would show up prominantly on ALL the samples. And I guarantee our chemists would notice. It would be big news to them. A dangerous, common chemical in ALL the tested sites? It's a huge concern to a site when something hazerdous is found, because it must be cleaned up, or they could get heavily fined.

But they are not finding this mystery chemical. They are NOT having to clean up a common chemical agent that is in levels that would be dangerous to humans OR wildlife. So I'm not trying to be Mr. Disinfo, I'm asking an intelligent, reasonable question. If this stuff is being sprayed en-masse, why can't it be found in samples?

Why can't one of you answer that, instead of resorting to silly attacks about derailing and disinfo and all that garbage? If you can provide a reason based on hard science, instead of wild-guesswork, I'm all ears.

Evergreen Aviation says they can help with "sensitive environmental" missions, can carry 24,000 gallons of what ever you want dumped or sprayed, they can help "homeland security" operations too.

Their planes are white with 2 green stripes. [Go ahead and clip this into a quote and say..."OOOHHH White Planes" , (sarcastic voice)" they must be chemtrail planes...where is my tinfoil hat?"] But evergreens planes ARE white when seen from below and millions of posts on the internet report white planes laying down trails.

www.evergreenaviation.com...

Their planes use joint military airports too. They can do long haul and international flights also. Some have even been equipped with fire-fighting capabilities.

Chemtrails are not from regular commercial aviation, they are a secret operation which is criminal in my opinion because it may use my tax dollars on the unethical modification of the climate. I do not accept "weather modification" as a normal activity in my world. I reject it, no matter how many posts you throw at me saying "weather modification is ok".

Yes, I speculate...wanna know why, because Chemtrails are above top secret.

Dear Incompetent Frustrated Debunkers,

Why do you post at Above Top Secret...people who know chemtrails are true do not trust you.
Why not post at "Weather and Meteorological Facts and Data.com"?

I just can't figure out why it bothers you so much that those of us who know about chemtrails disagree with you? Are you that much of control freaks? Or are you being PAID to be persuasive? I have not seen you persuade any of us yet, so why do you care so much?

In any case, you clearly lack the mental capacities to debate me with any sort of intellectual rigour - that much is obvious to us all.... That being the case; you may now resume your ridiculous ad homenim attacks

[edit on 17-11-2008 by TruthTellist]

reply to post by TruthTellist


Because the point of this site is to Deny Ignorance. And if you are posting what I think is bunk, I'll respond. And I am not asking for much. Just some scientific data from soil and water samples that proves this theory.

And you can't or won't do it. There is no doubt whatsoever that if that much chemical material is being sprayed over cities, it would be present in soil and water. Yet these are not being found. Ergo, your theory is fantasy. Unless you can provide some hard data that says otherwise.

After my last post, I asked one of our chemists if an unknown or unexpected chemical was found in the soil or water of a sample, would we easily find it? He said yes, without a doubt. They find all chemicals. They look for metals, chemicals, synthetic or otherwise. If there was a mass spraying, it would be EVERYWHERE. Ergo, it would be in all samples. And it's not.

Just explain that please.

reply to post by TruthTellist


Evergreen is building ONE 747 tanker that is rigged out for Aeriel dumping of massive amounts of liquid in several drops. This is the type of stuff that we see in firefighting, not the same thing as chemtrails. It is not used for spraying, it opens the hatches and drops massive amounts of the liquid in one huge cloud, like this:


Also evergreen planes are not pure white, they have a double green stripe that runs down their side. In addition to that the aircraft cannot dump at altitudes over 800 feet above the surface:

The system was designed to allow the Evergreen Supertanker to fly at a very safe altitude, 400 to 800 ft, and within its design envelope.

It is also not built yet:

The Evergreen Supertanker is currently in the development phase. As a result, the engineering and fabrication efforts continue to incur costs, which ultimately influence the price. Pricing will be available in the near future when the development efforts near completion and the majority of costs have been realized.

But keep grabbing at those straws, maybe you'll finally not get the short one.

reply to post by fleabit


fleabit...there are many examples listed on this thread of what is happening to soil and water. I posted one good link that Zaphod then came along and tried to debunk with an explanation that levels of barium and aluminum were coming from mining sources...Here is another www.holmestead.ca...

All of you that deny what is so obvious to some of us should just do your own research. You don't like what we have had to say on this matter...you see us as a bunch of nuts...Why oh why do you hang out at this thread? You guys show up on these threads demand proof..we provide it..you pick it apart on those few occasions it is read then start throwing little insults.

This is the last time I respond to the kindergarten bullies on this thread.

reply to post by Witness2008


Witness2008: You might want to have a look back at some of my earlier posts regarding barium. It is well and truly BUNK.

A couple of things I picked up in that article Witness2008 posted:

The Stratotankers were working alone in "commanded airspace" from which all other aircraft were excluded. And they were leaving chemtrails.

Then:

Going outside, Dickie and several controllers scanned clear blue skies over the northern Canadian city. Visibility was outstanding. They easily located a KC-135 leaving a lingering, broad white plume. They could also clearly see the JAL airliner at a similar flight level. It left no contrail at all.

And:

Especially exciting for Dickie and the kids was watching head-on passes between KC-135s and commercial airliners. Flying directly at each other with a closing rate of nearly 1,000 mph, the huge jets appeared about to collide.

Bit of a contradiction there?? I wonder what else has been lied about?

The next bit I found:

This reporter has obtained copies of lab tests conducted on snow samples collected by the city of Edmonton, Alberta between Nov. 8 - 12, 2002.
The tests show unaccountably elevated levels of aluminum and barium. Norwest Labs lab report #336566, dated Nov. 14 2002 found:
* aluminum levels: 0.148 milligrams/litre
* barium levels: 0.006 milligrams/litre

Now I haven't checked Aluminum yet, but I do know what the maximum amount of barium exposure the CDC has recommended:
2.0mg/Litre

lol that 0.006mg of barium is pretty dangerous huh?

I found a gem..It's an interim report on the effects of a barium cloud on the upper atmosphere over Peru. Executed in 1981 by Defense Technical Info. Center oai.dtic.mil...

reply to post by Witness2008



I found a gem too:

Aluminum Tox report


Have a good read, table 6.4 is a good start.

Did you know a cup of tea contains 0.424–2.931mg/L of aluminum?
and that Basil has 4.80–27.30mg/Kg of aluminum in it?

heh and that snow sample only had 0.148 mg/L

Deary me I guess they're just not spraying those chemtrails enough huh?