Obama's New Attack on Those Who Don't Want Higher Taxes: ‘Selfishness’

The tax system in this country is so very screwed up and I have no faith in either of these clowns to produce a noteworthy result. IMO the tax code
needs to be rewritten altogether every single form of income should have one flat percentage rate attached to it no exceptions, no loopholes, no deductions period. This one approach says one thing and one thing alone we all have an equal stake in the welfare of this nation, and that charity is not the governments responsibility it is the citizens. This would include every entity making money in this country.

Right along with that every American should be demanding a balanced budget Ammendment to the Constitution, one of the biggest jokes in this country is the government telling the citizens of this country to be financially responsible when it can not do so itself.

I agree with Obama. If you make $250,000 a year and you can't afford a small tax hike... not only are you selfish, but you are also greedy. You may need a financial adviser to help you with making smart investments.

$250,000 is a @#$% load of money to make a year, and the tax hikes Obama is talking about would barely be noticeable.

reply to post by redhatty

Here is something for you to consider; when the money supply goes up, fiat money, we have inflation. When it goes down, we have deflation. Most of the inflation over the past decades has been fiat money created by the banks, not the government. With the collapse of the shoddy loans, required by the Demoncrats, trillions in bank created fiat money have now evaporated, inducing deflation. $700 billion is not about to counter it. We are now in DEFLATION. That is why the price of gold has not gone up.
Another point; the combined Federal, States, Counties, and Local government budgets equal 75% of the GDP. The top income don't pay any Federal taxes, so they only pay about 50% in tax. That is, if they have any brains, they can do this. The poor don't pay any Fed, so the middle class pays higher than 75%. And Baraq will raise your taxes? Why?
The last; about 60% of the Fed budget is 'black budget', meaning totally unaccountable. They can sell zillion dollar toilet seats to their cousins. Whos' gonna check? I suppose some is important, for working with new techs and such, but 60%?

reply to post by Sublime620


250,000 I s allot of Money???

By what reckoning?

How old are you what responsibilities do you have?

40% of 250,000 is Only 150,000

and 150,000 personal is where a Family actually has breakaway and can begin to put 20,000, - 50,000 a year into investments

Taxation above 40% at that level would ruin me, I'd have nothing to invest in savings for retirement

and that's only by living a fairly middle class life...

My monthly expenses

Insurance about 1 G

Car and Gas about 900.00

Rent in total for a 2 bdrm apt and small place near my children 1.6 G

food 500.00

child support 1 G

Utilities 500.00


Thats 5.5

or 55,000 for small apartments, child support, insurance and bills

That does not include any items I want, nor a fancy car nor even owning a home at this point in time...

How about just throw in (which I do)

the things a Middle class American used to be able to have on top of that in life?

Regular trips monthly to buy clothes for the family 4 4 people that would be a G, money spent btw on American businesses

1 G (Monthly)

1 Yearly Vacation for the family and several trips to see grandparents if they are in another state

7 G (yearly)

How about 1 Nice night out for a real dinner at a nice restaurant a week

and one nice night out for grown up time Each week...

1.6 G a month 400.00 a week

How about a fund for 2 kids college monthy for 10 years 1 G

Now presents, lets say you celebrate christmas and birthdays anniversary the whole lot of it... and include days at the bech in summer, maybe visits to zoos and museums...

be cheep avg that to 500.00 , we are middle class, your wife can skip jewelry right...

and lets say, home furnishings, lawn garden, extras for kids like Books and movies... your middle class... not much, 500.00

Now

Medical insurance won't usually cover braces, deductibles, cosmetics

add another 2 G a year to that, no boob job for us we are middle class...right?

so there is 4.6 more per month +9 G to the total

64.2 G for a LIFE
55.0 For existance

For middle class dad me!!!

Kids and family have special holidays, you go on vacation you have A car....not 2 cars, I pay my support, every one is insured and I can go out, once a week and spend one day with the kids and one day shopping, get my once a year vacation, live and sit on furniture that's not rotten, visit my parents a few times a year

Middle Class for me... 123 G

Obama from 250 G earned at 40%

150 G

27 G to invest not bad...

But what if it goes up to 50%, this is a campaign promise

Leaves me under a Million in 30 years to retire...

Oh but wait!!!

I want to buy a house scratch a 1/2 Million from that

and OH

Like my mom, my wife gets Cancer

scratch another 500,000

Oh wait.... I'm 63 and the market dives I loose half while my wife has cancer....and can't pay it

I'm bankrupt

Guess again at Middle class reality

250 G assures me little...

and Health Insurance covered by the Govt

NO

You don't get the best treatment for your loved ones that way and mine deserve that!!!


250 G minus 40% is an inch from Lower Middle class dangerous waters

and every penny above that is impossible sometimes, allot of work allot of strain

and

NO

I don't care about those that

didn't work since they were 13 like I did

didn't take loans for 7 years of school

didn't save and spend 1/4 Mil to start a business by work 2 Jobs

TO EARN... ROFL A Middle Class Life

after 25 years of effort to date at 38


The govt is Bankrupt... then it needs to go Bankrupt and restructure JUST LIKE I WOULD

Not ask me to pay for 7 Trillion I didn't spend

Put that Number to 500,000 as a Minimum

My so called greed leaves me a weekend each week to squeeze in time with children a day out a dinner a few drinks...

and day 2 I go shopping with a hangover wash rinse and repeat

and I'm not at that 250 this year and wont be again until next year and I don't want to loose one red cent of it honestly because I want the down payment for a home while prices are low



No high taxes for the rich don't affect the rich much AMEN

250 isn't rich, it's where you have a shot at getting Rich and this plan will take that away for MILLIONS of Americans and grow the divide between rich and poor even further...

THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT IS BANKRUPT

They need to handle it the way WE would have to handle it... and those responsible need to leave office... FIRED

And not tax anyone higher for their mistakes and utter, complete FAILURE

My last 20 G to Invest is going to bail out 9 Trillion Bucks? I don't think so, the no good RATS are going to take us all down with them and flee the country with their real riches

reply to post by Jovi1

A flat tax would also start taxing the upper class. Raising taxes on over $250,000 income is basically a waste of time. They don't have to pay any taxes anyways. Perhaps a little higher than 250.
The flat tax also fixes a big problem with legislation being full of pork, 'earmarks' to benefit particular financial supporters. No more tax breaks. They all pay the same. And don't have to hire tax lawyers, or support PACs.

The sheer nerve of this guy...

I'll do just over 100 this year, with my expenses I'm DEAD UNDER

I have weeks where I go out, I live in a great neighborhood...

but at 6 figures, with all the rest, if I do get some real drinks or go to a real restaurant, more often than not this year... I'm eating Ramen Noodles the next week to do so...

I don't have a College fund for my kids and my oldest is 9 and it cuts me out a year...

I'm Greedy?

I'd like to kick his rear from here to China and Back

18 HRS a DAY Thats the time I am on the computer, I chat in here when the computer is compiling or rendering to keep my sanity

But 18 HRS a Day I work to have that 250...(sometimes) in my life...

and I'm Greedy?

I'm Rich?

No good Litigator Misery that he really is

What's HIS Income?

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by Witness2008

 

Well if Obama gets elected president and his tax plan goes through you will see what will happen first hand.

Businesses don't pay taxes, they include the taxes they pay in the products that we buy. Everything you buy from the store has what is called a hidden tax of around 23%. Services that we buy also have this tax hidden in the product.

What is going to happen is that the corporations are going raise their prices to compensate for these tax increases and cut jobs to keep the business profitable.

I don't understand why people don't understand this. Prices will go up for EVERYONE! More people will LOSE their jobs!

reply to post by Aislin


the prices will go up because the people with the means of production refuse to lessen their own quality of life. they get taxed higher, guess what they pass the buck to us by charging more for a product or by getting rid of jobs and cutting wages to maintain the profits and maintain their own standard of living. selfish.

Sorry. My life basically ended in '89 when I had a car accident on my way to college. I had big plans, and an IQ to get there. Now I am on disability, and can't get a job. I live on a millionaire friends ranch, in an RV. I can't afford to marry, or basically do anything. Almost all my friends are gone, my family turned on me, and my church turned out to be not quite Christ like. Someone told me recently that a person needs four things to be happy; a job, health, family, and love. Well, I don't have any, and no hope to ever have. But I still do OK. The reason I say no Fed taxes, is because you can arrange your lifestyle to have all kinds of deductions, and you can invest tax free. I've never tried it, I get half poverty level. I don't have heat in a place that freezes, and no hot water. I got burned out in the San Diego Firestorm, and noone has helped. Didn't really know what you showed me with your budget.

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Let me put it to you this way:

I don't care what numbers you post up. I am very close to two people who make just over $250,000 - let's just say that.

They have two houses that range near million dollar homes. They have nice cars. They can go on vacation whenever they want. They have the freedom to do almost anything. They have no worry about retirement.

If saved properly, $250,000 will pay for everything you could possibly NEED and then some. At $250,000, with the rate going from 35% to 39% (the proposed rate), the tax hike would only be $10,000 a year.

$10,000 is a lot of money, sure. However, by contrast, there are people who work full time that barely make more than that and are forced to make due.

Cry me a river.

(By the way, those people who I referred to are not selfish and know the tax hike will affect them, but they still know it is the fair approach to taxation currently)

*Edit:

And you did over $100,000 this year and you are having trouble?

Might want to stop showing others how to budget and start teaching yourself again. How can you make that much and not have a college fund for your 9 year old?

Point in case. Selfish.

I am struggling making under $15,000, working near full time. Meanwhile, I go to school full time and no one can give me health insurance.

I still have a savings account with a positive balance.

Plus, if all you gross is just over $100,000, this tax plan would not affect you.

[edit on 31-10-2008 by Sublime620]

Did anyone else note the irony in Obama's quote in the OP?

"John McCain and Sarah Palin they call this socialistic," Obama continued. "You know I don’t know when, when they decided they wanted to make a virtue out of selfishness."

The Virtue of Selfishness is a well-know book by Ayn Rand, probably the most renowned Objectivist of the 20th century:

What does Ayn Rand mean when she describes selfishness as a virtue?

Ayn Rand rejects altruism, the view that self-sacrifice is the moral ideal. She argues that the ultimate moral value, for each human individual, is his or her own well-being. Since selfishness (as she understands it) is serious, rational, principled concern with one's own well-being, it turns out to be a prerequisite for the attainment of the ultimate moral value. For this reason, Rand believes that selfishness is a virtue.

www.objectivistcenter.org...

reply to post by jsobecky


More than likely a coincidence, wouldn't you think?

But good catch, and interesting nonetheless.

Everyone keeps saying $250,000. As someone noted a page or 2 ago, Joe Biden now says that number will be $150,000. By January, if elected, I wouldn't be surprised if it was $50,000. Obama Bin Biden says they will fundamentally change our nation - that should be scary to everyone. Our country needs a few tweaks here and there but certainly doesn't need to be altered fundamentally by anyone, particularly the Change-Meister.

reply to post by bagari


Joe Biden is not going to be president. Also, all of this requires legislation. Nothing is written in stone.

What Obama does in the White House will be directly correlated to what happens with Congress in these elections.

*Edit:

Oh, and I believe they say Biden just made a mental faux pas.

[edit on 31-10-2008 by Sublime620]

reply to post by bagari


The public hears 250,000.00 over and over, dozens and dozens of times. But then someone mis-speaks and then that mistake becomes the magic number.

Then folks get together on a conspiracy site and with their combined efforts can suddenly read the unspoken truth only found in the minds of the candidates they oppose.

Should I attempt to read the minds of the mind readers?

reply to post by Gregarious


My budget proves exactly what your saying to be very real and wrong

and exactly what i'm saying

You need a heck of allot of Money in this system to have a life... a heck of allot and if you don't your screwed, Royally.

A TRUE socialist system would cover, all your Health Care, pay for a house, not an apartment you can never raise kids in, not leave you in a cold shack that is for sure, food would be a given and even a car to transport yourself

and certainly if You tried to empower yourself and made a Grand extra one month in a way you could, lets say via the internet...

They would take away the little you even have

What is this plan to shift around other people Money and how much will it really give the poor? A few hundred bucks

The guys motto is Change

Then really CHANGE

The problem is it's all hooked to MONEY period, communism and socialism can't work if it's hooked up to Capitalism... period, so long as it is they are assigning a dollar value to things that really have no value anyway

In reality, by commodity

We have Oil, we have food, to a degree some of it ROTS in the United states, I have a buddy who works for a corporate restaurant, they make him Throw Away the left over food and he would get fired if he gave it out at the end of the night...

so we just, dispose of food, Millions of Bushels of Grain alone every year goes in the garbage...

Pre Fab Houses and cars are made by Robots

Power on the grid can be Nuclear and cost very, very little to heat a home

True Socialism would

Entirely De capitalize ALL of these things that people need to live...

Health care won't work in a largely populated Capitalist society until it is a right and the people that work in that field are fully provided for in exchange

Rather than dollar by dollar



My whole point is I do make very often what Obama describes as wealth

and what I have, is what, a person would be given in a real socialist system like Star Trek portrays

I have it better than many but, i have no Life 5 days - 6 days out of the week... That's allot of my life, certainly that's not GOOD for scoiety to, not be a Father or an Artist or many of the things I could be not chasing down money

and it takes me all that...to maintain what i view and what my parents had 25 years ago as Middle Class people

My mother didn't work for a time my Father drove a cab... Far from Loaded when I was a child

But they had the basic life I do...

and with that income sometimes i'm poor

without it... you are utterly in what sounds like almost 3rd world poverty levels


I don't.... actually hate socialism...

But if he is going to do this and wants my respect or me to pay 50%

Then offer TRUE Socialism in exchange for that...

Obamas going to up my taxes and you get... what 50.00 extra bucks a month... maybe nothing on disability

In a real socialist society, you would be truly entirely taken care of.

For that, I'd say tax the heck away

But he reality, Medicine and shelter and food Hinged to the dollar, is just welfare and poverty...

MONEY, would need to come out of the equation entirely in large areas of our society

There would be plenty to do for entrepreneurs like me...

In areas that are Luxuries

Medicine isn't a Luxury, neither is a House

Like in Star Trek, Quark in DS9 Loved Money, he owned a BAR

Every body else was paid for and not with... you must do this or serve the federation crud either, the freedom to be who you want to be no strings attached

The rebellion to that concept is everybody would become a bunch of lazy doped up welfare apes

and I don't even believe that

I thin people would get bored and do things useful with their lives...

Most of us at least

I think the same people who do nothing now on purpose will always be there...and those numbers wont go up...

And raising children isn't nothing, even...reading all day isn't nothing... it betters society

and the Truth is

40 Million Americans have jobs hat are useless, telemarketing, odd jobs invented to generate money for people to spend

So I'd be down to not protest socialism...

Particularly for Guys like YOU, who, weren't left a choice...

But for the Love of G-d, I have to hear the guy actually offer people like you something beyond a tax cut on your non income...

He offers the POOR a Tax Cut?

I don't Even get that.... ROFL

Cut What? 5% of Buptkus... is Buptkus

14,000 a year...Huurah, 5% of the 800.00 you pay Equals a savings of 40.00

Go grab a bottle of Booze and cry with it lol, that what the tax cut gives the poor



My budget is only meant to show, that even with that income, all that work, all I have is sort of a normal life currently...

and I'd say sort of because, I had to keep my AC off some days this summer and it was 115 here on some of those days and it was heck, I can't imagine how the elderly cope...

My electric in an Apt run daily in that is 400.00 a month

1.6 for the summer

so all that work...and 250 G is allot of money

Just saying no it's not...

Thats why the poor are so disparaged

It's a nightmare to even think of the climb...from 12 G to 250 G

And as a family man, that's what I need to make... to even, have a few bucks to invest and actually use the stock market that makes these companies go and pays for peoples jobs

and...lol, I just lost Plenty of that these last few weeks....POOF Bye, bye

A thousand hrs of Labor or so down the drain

I'm not saying that for sympathy lol, who gives a crud right?

But my life is NOT easy at that income level... not yet,

which means it's not easy for anyone and we are in...desperate times

So go Socialist and limit Capitalism... but do it in a REAL way, don't jerk us all around with bs tax games and set us on each other.

Take money out of the picture in certain arenas entirely, for anyone that needs it, no questions asked...

Then tax the rich 50%, those who choose to play monopoly because at that point, it's not risking their lives to do so so who cares...

Playing with Money, you can go from a Million a Year to zero in 60 days

People that go that route and build businesses, in the current system need to hold real money aside to assure they don't end up homeless one lousy day also

OR

At least to know if they are going to shell out Massive taxes, that...they won't go from Rich to the street if something goes wrong

and what the Govt...any socialist Govt currently defines as a Minimal quality of life...

You, of all people know that leaves you with nothing, nothing at all

So in brief...I'm not rich and I have ZERO of a safety net, I fi accidentally become poor caring for others...

I want to KNOW, I'll be covered and not live in a shack with no heat also... not be given 100.00 gift certificate at Best Buy with my next tax return...

And that is essentially about what Obama is offering the poor, Nada Mucho

reply to post by mopusvindictus



Great post!

14,000 a year...Huurah, 5% of the 800.00 you pay Equals a savings of 40.00

And don't forget you have to average that forty bucks out over a year...

reply to post by jsobecky


I agree. I think that post shows a lot.

It shows that such a little amount makes a huge difference in our budget because so many only make that much. I find it reprehensible how many people work full time and remain below the poverty line.

You're right. Cutting taxes for those people is not enough.

reply to post by Sublime620


Bro, I know you from your posts and... your not a bad Guy...

So don't be rude like a baby with the cry me a river stuff and the rest

Your in school

As I thought

You do NOT know what it is like to raise a family yet and what you need

AND

I went through all that stuff and at 38 am breaking through, I have been there I have done the 15 G a year thing

It sucks

and after 25 years working I excpect allot more and it's not selfish.

It's no lack of resources in this country that you should not have to...suffer, without it coming to taking my money

The GOVT is INSANE

and you need to realize it and people need to stop painting Obama as a savior because he offers to Tax the Rich... it's "haha" (insert nelson laugh) kind of thinking

Maybe if I had for the last 15 years been making 250 I would have some accumulation and ... you could say it's allot

But maybe your 50 and Never owned a home and you worked your whole life to get there and then boom, it's going to take another 10 years now...

Unfair

I don't owe you a living, I did all this stuff to get here and just as I'm making it I don't want to be held back years more...

It's not selfish...

It's WHY you go to school




This is the REAL

Be an American and don't turn on me and I have NO Desire to fight with you

I KNOW you need things, I know it's hard...

I Kill Myself and I am NOT selfish and what he said is WRONG

Look at AMERICA... Look what they do and then You and I Argue

and you call names and agree that I am selfish

That PIE CHART is SELFISH

That is OVER HALF of OUR money Going to Military the X is the "Black Budget" and who knows what the heck they are doing with that!

Then scratch also

International Relations

Administration

and Energy which goes to Fund Big Oil and others that suck our Money

and that's what WE actually GET

There is All the money in the WORLD

to uplift us as people, to feed people, to take care of Health, to do all the things Obama claims he wants to do...

Without Ever, Ever touching My taxes and they could lower or eliminate yours while doing so too

How much in even the social aspects what few there are is WASTE, beurocracy and theft?

I'd say more than half on trumped up Govt contracts


We could argue day and night over my extravgent lifestyle and you can hit e with... every comment in the world

and it's all about Division of the American people and when you do that...you let THEM win

Do we need a Trillion Dollar military expenditure NO

Are these social service run well, is there tons of money simply vaporized in them YES

They have failed

They Bankrupted America

and they have us debating and fighting over scraps

and your 15 compared to my 100

is meaningless, I'm a serf with a better TV and a Better Car...

and they have TRILLIONS of Dollars going to WAR

and they CLAIM....we need this

But The REAL, My FRIEND

Is that, in the end, if America is ever Attacked it will be BECAUSE they spent that money, not because they didn't spend it, because we use those toys when too many of them are built and now the world HATES us and FEARS us

and if they gave even Half that and doubked Human services across the board

We would still be spending Much More money than any nation in the world on defense

and

No one would fear us and no one would attack us any more than they Attack Amsterdam or Canada



All I am saying Is... He's a fake, they are ALL Robber Barons and simply will drain the last of us that have anything, while wasting our money

and I know, this is histroy every nation on Earth... they leave when everyone hits Rock bottom, they all stink

George will be in Uruguay in 10 Years

Obama will be in Zaire...

and they will laugh

That YOU and I ever, ever argued over our share of the SCRAPS







[edit on 1-11-2008 by mopusvindictus]

[edit on 1-11-2008 by mopusvindictus]

[edit on 1-11-2008 by mopusvindictus]

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Fair enough.