Obama's New Attack on Those Who Don't Want Higher Taxes: ‘Selfishness’

All I can say is you Americans better get used to higher taxes - no matter who gets elected. Who do you think is going to pay back all that money you have borrowed over the past 10 years? You think your creditors are going to just let you forget about it?

reply to post by jsobecky


Comes out to a 5.00 pack of smokes or a single funny cig 8 months out of the year...so you can celebrate on Holidays

Or a a 2 40 0z Bottle of Mickeys 8 months of the year

choose your poison

reply to post by jsobecky


Ayn Rand has good points and would be correct in them

But for people to be in a position where they can eliminate fight or flight, you have to eliminate their FEAR of Survival

That's why I am saying

If your going to offer socialism

heck, do it

But offer TRUE Full fledged socialism and unhinge from the dollar life support systems that shouldn't in reality be capitalized anyway

Huge budgets for education health

But the reality is if PROFIT was eliminated from those areas entirely, socialism would have a chance to work

socialist systems in a capitalist society are expensive

I have NO issue with a system of duality where, if it becomes a given people need it to maintain a normal life, it is de capitalized entirely

But I also know, it will fail and be devastating when... the books and the paper used in schools are bought to fund a public system, from Profit generating businesses

It should be, that a book costs the nickle it costs to print it if you did this right

Income tax is illegal. The FED is illegal. Here we are arguing about something that we should not even have to be arguing about. Nobody on the Government side in any court case has been able to produce the law that says we have to pay income tax. People are being prosecuted under a non-existant law. Whenever the Government is asked to show the law that they are prosecuting tax resisters under, the only thing they produce is threats, intimidation, and more litigation.

reply to post by groingrinder


Back those statements up please. Here's my source to refute you:

United States Constitution

Amendment 16 - Status of Income Tax Clarified. Ratified 2/3/1913. Note History

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

It's non-truths like the one above that got Wesley Snipes put in jail.


Definition of Income

income
c.1300, "entrance, arrival," lit. "what enters," perhaps a noun use of the late O.E. verb incuman "come in," from in (adv.) + cuman "to come" (see come). Meaning "money made through business or labor" first recorded 1601. Income tax is from 1799, first introduced in Britain as a war tax, re-introduced 1842; authorized on a national level in U.S. in 1913. Incoming was originally of game approaching the hunter.

[edit on 1-11-2008 by Sublime620]

reply to post by arxgen


Can you translate that into english? I have no clue what that dude was talking about.

reply to post by Sublime620

It was never ratified. The ratification is a sham.

reply to post by groingrinder


Explain? Source? Something?

reply to post by Sublime620


I have no problem finding tons of information on the web about the illegality of the income tax laws. I do not need to spoon feed it to you. You are a big boy now. You can find it as easily as I did.

Every Body says that the Flat tax is great...

But aside from debate of illegal vs legal

The system I would Love to see is Tax on consumption!

Sales Tax, That's what I think would be easiest

There would be less tax over all brought in, but it would be paid by those who Spend Money particularly on items they don't need

I smoke, I don't mind the 2.00 extra I pay for a pack, it's fair, can't really complain about it, I don't have to smoke... ever, If I choose too, I can pay the bit extra

I think it would encourage Americans to be Healthier, waste less, not be so decadent...which, we certainly are!

and why?

Because LOL

Income tax is hard...

all my shpiel above, i really don't wast money and I make a good living but i'm supposed to save some aside for quaterly taxes and LOL... It's too stinkin hard!

If they taxed me when I was SPENDING my money, that would be easy, no forms, no nightmares with the IRS which can be very intimidating and makes me hate the govt sometimes and who needs that emotion in a country?

If I want a new couch, i can spend the extra 100.00

If I want a hot car it can be 15 G more

and that's easy

But ask me to make 15 G in 90 days for example and have any left over?

I fail at that always and make up ways to get out iof it, start writing things off, looking for loopholes

It doesn't gert paid anyway

that's why I say I'm not rich because...

I mention this in another post, I need to get my veneers done... 14 G at the frackin Dentist, because I used to fight allot as a kid 20 years ago and now I pay and pay again every 5 years or so for caps for my friggin teeth as my price to pay for being a scrapper...

(world has no forgiveness I swear)

But anyway, do you think, when the need is there i'll be paying uncle sam or paying for my Veneers

People that say the rich figure a way out...they are CORRECT

Because I'll start a business that fails and "loose" 15 G or write off part of my rent and power... or some thing to find a way to afford my teeth...

so just

Tax consumption

It gives you choice in what you spend

It teaches frugality

Leave the income alone, it just creates stress and intervention and crime

reply to post by groingrinder


Big boys source information they spew around, especially on the Internet. Why don't you go ask Wesley Snipes if income taxes are enforceable or not?

Do you pay them?

Force Enforces whatever Force decides to Enforce because it is Force

and brings the current debate to a simple point of

Should Force or prison be used to Enforce a Tax code?

and why... I interjected Sales tax as the only solution I see to the entire situation of the bulk of people being required to deal with taxes at all

I read the headline, and I'am totally outraged! This makes me extremely frustrated. This plan is totally self-LESS and not the other way around. People think that we have to actually give less so other can have more. Who do you think are the people that have to pay for this? I'ts the billion doller company's and collectors of massive amounts of cash who have way more power and money than they need. They say the world is run on greed, the problem here is, greed doesn't take good care of you and in reality the average person will not be effected by this and there are more regular citizen's than high profile buisness men in the world, so at this point you start realizing how much power they have if they can promote these kinds of backwards illogical points and opinions and alot of people start to beleive it because they are considered too stupid to think for themselves. There is a huge (world) problem that needs worldwide attention.

Why do people listen to all these people who do not know a thing. The only person you should be listening to is yourself. What do you beleive in, who are you!?!? Why let other people decide for you, who you are.

Under Obama/Dems -

'Rich' was making mroe than $250,000.
Then 'Rich' was making more than $150,000
Now 'Rich' is making more than $120,000

Story Here

Wake the hell up America.

edited immediately for spelling error

[edit on 11/1/2008 by FlyersFan]

I think its pathetic! How are we "Selfish" trying to keep ourselves and our family alive? What is this guy trying to prove...

If either McCaine or Obama get elected, we are in deep trouble!

Originally posted by Sublime620
reply to post by groingrinder

 

Big boys source information they spew around, especially on the Internet. Why don't you go ask Wesley Snipes if income taxes are enforceable or not?

Do you pay them?

"The Illegality of income tax" is nothing but a fantasy that doesn't hold any water in a court of law and YES you have to pay income tax by law or face prosecution.

I think YOU are being "selfish" on this point my friend. Do you know what the world around you would look like if no one paid any income tax? A third world country.

It is a wonderful fantasy to imagine not paying income tax at all or imagine a world where it isn't enforceable. The fact of the matter is America wouldn't be the nation it would be today. Reduced spending on everything including; Nasa, Military, etc all with small budgets.

What a silly argument

[edit on 1-11-2008 by IceColdPro]

[edit on 1-11-2008 by IceColdPro]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Under Obama/Dems -

'Rich' was making mroe than $250,000.
Then 'Rich' was making more than $150,000
Now 'Rich' is making more than $120,000

Story Here

Wake the hell up America.

edited immediately for spelling error

[edit on 11/1/2008 by FlyersFan]

This article is the biggest piece of BS i've read all day, straight from the mouth of Faux news. It is a desperate attempt at keeping your above argument going. Just because "an unnamed Democrat" said that it was $120 doesn't make it true or credible. If you believe that article from the MSM, then I think you are posting in the wrong place.

Did Obama or Biden say it was $120k? No. Did named member of the campaign? No.

Obama defines it at $250k, it never changed. McCain is the one who was flip-flopping on his tax scheme: Here is the video

...and that is coming straight from the horses mouth.

you folks go on and on here about this stupid tax bracket thing that perhaps 90% of you won't even be effected by anyway once Barack Obama takes over. Even if you do make hundreds of thousands per year and have to pay some tax; guess what, you are paying your share for reaping the rewards from society and off the back of the workers which is all the rest of us. Since 1978, the upper 1% in this country (usa) have enjoyed some 11 trillion dollars in tax cuts with Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II....that money didn't trickle down, it whent off shore!!!

Wake the f*(# up folks! Even Warren Buffet says the rich don't pay enough. Quit blaming the Democrat who will actually lower your taxes...we have to pay back the debt that Bush ran up...one way or the other...why not tax the ones who benifited the most from the runaway nut in office?

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
So not wanting to pay exorbitant amounts of money to the government because they don't know how to be fiscally responsible is 'selfish'?

He definitely didn't lie about not being a socialist he is one more step beyond that. I hope this guy doesn't get elected I don't think these people have a clue how much worse that it can actually get.

Yeah, I mean.... Look at Sweden.... Those comunist bastards with their nearly 50% tax rate. With their clean blue subways, neatly maintained roads, and everybody in the middle class living like the upper middle class here in the US, driving around in high end BMW's, SAABS and Volvos. Did you know Sweden even taxes your TV? They have TV police that walks into your house and checks if you have one.

So, wow come they manage to have such a high standard of living....?

Or consider France, similar tax system, where a single mother can afford a domestic worker to watch out for her kids and help out. I am sure many "would be super rich people" are so angry that instead of living in a castle, they merely have to live in a mansion.

A quarter million dollars a year is not "HARD EARNED" money, is money earned from a desk and behind a telephone by using leverage to get actual hard work out of others.

Hard earned money is the 60K a year earned in construction or the 70K a year earned in actual plumbing.

I wonder if all those people decrying higher taxes (which obama will not bring for the middle class) have ever left their home town or read about other countries. Heck, at least watch the travel channel!

-rrr

Originally posted by rickyrrr

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
So not wanting to pay exorbitant amounts of money to the government because they don't know how to be fiscally responsible is 'selfish'?

He definitely didn't lie about not being a socialist he is one more step beyond that. I hope this guy doesn't get elected I don't think these people have a clue how much worse that it can actually get.

Yeah, I mean.... Look at Sweden.... Those comunist bastards with their nearly 50% tax rate. With their clean blue subways, neatly maintained roads, and everybody in the middle class living like the upper middle class here in the US, driving around in high end BMW's, SAABS and Volvos. Did you know Sweden even taxes your TV? They have TV police that walks into your house and checks if you have one.

So, wow come they manage to have such a high standard of living....?

Or consider France, similar tax system, where a single mother can afford a domestic worker to watch out for her kids and help out. I am sure many "would be super rich people" are so angry that instead of living in a castle, they merely have to live in a mansion.

A quarter million dollars a year is not "HARD EARNED" money, is money earned from a desk and behind a telephone by using leverage to get actual hard work out of others.

Hard earned money is the 60K a year earned in construction or the 70K a year earned in actual plumbing.

I wonder if all those people decrying higher taxes (which obama will not bring for the middle class) have ever left their home town or read about other countries. Heck, at least watch the travel channel!

-rrr

Agreed, and if you use the opinion of the world or Europe in a discussion with some of the people with the above mentality, those very same people they will consider it blasphemy!

There is ENOUGH money in circulation to pull the whole country up, including the working class AND richer classes and enable prosperity for all. If the working class has more money (through tax breaks) and more jobs available and have a better standard of living, crime is then drastically reduced. We can see this repeated all around Europe.

Obama has a plan to create a lot of jobs! He wants to provide tax breaks for companies that don't ship their jobs abroad and he wants to create millions of permanent jobs through his sustainable energy policy.