Why do women break up with nice guys?

Originally posted by namine
reply to post by Edrick

 

Yep, I believe there's more than one good western woman out there. I know the type of woman you hold contempt for. That type of woman happens to be what most men gun for, including the "nice guys". Most western men pride themselves on hooking up with that type of woman, maybe that's the mass media's influence on the majority of men, too?

I could go along with that.

If most men didn't fancy that type of woman, it would be phased out, or at least there'd be a lot fewer of them, wouldn't you say?

This I dont,here`s where I think the conspiracy lies,because for control over men TPTB only needed to affect women(they did this in numerous of ways)to control men in general,if say every single woman in the world came to be the most vile of creatures there would still be countless men (or animals) chasing them,it wouldn`t be phased out.

reply to post by Edrick


Hey Edrick,

I haven't seen the video clips. I think the bottom line is most these "nice guys" go for the wrong type, and come off as egotistical thinking they're something of the perfect guy, not realizing they are the wrong type for the women they lust after.

reply to post by namine

I haven't seen the video clips. I think the bottom line is most these "nice guys" go for the wrong type, and come off as egotistical thinking they're something of the perfect guy, not realizing they are the wrong type for the women they lust after.

Yeah... never-mind what I said earlier about you gaining wisdom... it was apparently just a Fluke.



The "Wrong Type" as you put it... is the Majority of women in the Western World.

Self Centered, Privileged Princesses.

"Nice Guys" go after them, and Want them, because IT IS ALL THAT IS AVAILABLE.

-Edrick

reply to post by Edrick


... if you really wanna believe that, then be my guest.

"Nice guys" love to hide behind excuses...anything to justify their own shortcomings. It's the only way they can live with themselves.

Their outlook is much too pessimistic for my tastes, thank you very much.

reply to post by namine

if you really wanna believe that, then be my guest.

Do you know what "Evident" Means?

It's a Scientific Word.

It means "Eat Your Words"

"Nice guys" love to hide behind excuses...anything to justify their own shortcomings. It's the only way they can live with themselves.

Taste Good?

-Edrick

reply to post by namine


I already told you I find beauty in all women.. so there's not really too many women I don't find attractive. Even if they're not attractive I still make effort to find something attractive about them. So you're response doesn't even make sense, because you're putting words in my mouth with an issue I already addressed.

It is a typical response that "maybe it's the women you're attracted to".

The problem is, that most women ARE attractive.. therefore if any woman is attractive she will be the same way it seems.

I'm sorry if It seems like I'm ganging up on you. Though it's true. I already addressed this, you're putting words in my mouth.

I already said I find beauty in all women.

I already said I find beauty in all women.

I already said I find beauty in all women.

How many times do I have to say it before you accuse me again with some cliche line, that I already addressed!

reply to post by Edrick


Actually women have been oppressed just like men were oppressed.

Women are physically weaker too and even so men have feared women and their sexuality, not sex, but their sexuality which hurts men. Because they are dishonest, they cheat, they lie, they are promiscuous, they seek brutality not good qualities, they are brutal, etc.

So it's not hard to think that perhaps women were opressed or abused, because men have such strong passions, and women can just get all the sex she needs but men are a number. Not so for women.

Originally posted by The Quiet Storm
reply to post by namine

 

I already told you I find beauty in all women.. so there's not really too many women I don't find attractive. Even if they're not attractive I still make effort to find something attractive about them.



The problem is, that most women ARE attractive.. therefore if any woman is attractive she will be the same way it seems.



I already said I find beauty in all women.

I already said I find beauty in all women.

I already said I find beauty in all women.

Desperate much?

Yeah you`d be real attractive to a woman anyone male or female would see that from a mile off.

As I said find your type of woman,not any woman,but thats not going to happen until you first work on yourself,instead of working on woman.

Desperate women get used by men (one nighters etc) very often,because the woman isn`t looking for someone inparticular they are looking for anyone how is that any respect for the men she attracts.Its a recipe for failure.

The chances of her picking or attracting the right type are very slim,just like your own recipe,where each of you will then blame the other gender.

Originally posted by The Quiet Storm
reply to post by namine

 

I already told you I find beauty in all women.. so there's not really too many women I don't find attractive. Even if they're not attractive I still make effort to find something attractive about them. So you're response doesn't even make sense, because you're putting words in my mouth with an issue I already addressed.

It is a typical response that "maybe it's the women you're attracted to".

The problem is, that most women ARE attractive.. therefore if any woman is attractive she will be the same way it seems.

I'm sorry if It seems like I'm ganging up on you. Though it's true. I already addressed this, you're putting words in my mouth.

I already said I find beauty in all women.

I already said I find beauty in all women.

I already said I find beauty in all women.

How many times do I have to say it before you accuse me again with some cliche line, that I already addressed!

edit on 2-11-2010 by The Quiet Storm because: (no reason given)

Ignore all of them, judging by the above, you're lovely, but you do need to get more specific and concentrate on some kind of objective, you may find all women attractive, but that is not going to help you get 'a' girl, you need to pick one, just one, it's best not to be too ambitious to start with.

No woman or girl wants to feel she is merely a 'hole', sorry to be coarse, but there it is. So, forget about the sex, that will come in due course, there is nothing at all wrong with you other than that perhaps you are thinking about that too much and forgetting all the civilities. Pick a girl and then woo her. If she at first refuses, try again, it isn't a game, but, if you want a 'nice' girl to like you enough to want to go to bed with you, you have to understand that most of those girls have heard every single line in the book by the time they reach a certain age and if they haven't succumbed to them before now, why do you think that they will suddenly drop their knickers for you? They want to get to know you and know that you aren't a 'player', find out if you are someone they would be willing to take out time for. That doesn't mean that she is looking for the 'one', it just means that she values quality over quantity, and can take it or leave it. Or perhaps doesn't want to be bored to tears for the sake of shag. The point is, if something is worth having, it generally does take a little getting. And that works equally for both genders.

Look for the girls turning down all the flash types and do the opposite of what those flash types are doing and try to get to know those girls, you'll meet one that floats your boat sooner or later, and then you can chase her, if she wants you to catch her, she won't run very fast. Just stop thinking so far ahead, forget about sex, wipe it from your mind, and focus on getting a girl. You will find that far, far more effective. A woman may know that she is not sitting on the only one in town, but she is sitting on the only one attached to her, and she would at least like to think you are interested in the rest of her as well, however true or untrue that may be.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout

Pick a girl and then woo her.

The point is, if something is worth having, it generally does take a little getting.

and then you can chase her

I don't mean to be Rude....

But where is the Effort on the Girl's behalf here?

OR is she merely a Trophy to be Won?


Why do men have to do the Chasing, but women Don't?

Do you call this Equality?

-Edrick (Amendment XIX)

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


I think thats good advice and parallels with what I`m also saying KilgoreTrout.

See! TQS not all women look down at you for who you are,though they will and men will if you expect pitty sex.

Besides they are starting to crack down on that.

Friendly nurses warned off flirting under new patient guiidelines

Damn,I`ve never spent any lengthy time in hospital and have only heard the common rumours of naughty nurse`s,I know they`d get me on my feet again quicker.

Well it only says their not allowed to flirt,it doesn`t say I`m not allowed to enjoy the sponge bath.

reply to post by Edrick


Edrick sorry pal gotta go against that one.

She is only responding to TQS`s situation and not all men.

If TQS was more selective in his choices it would show women that he has standards and self respect,they will then find that attractive and some will chase him,if he puts himself out there for it to be recognised.

[

I don't understand why a man has to 'woo' while a woman does nothing.

Do you understand what WOOING means? Wooing means I have to compete with all other men, with her own mind to get to her.

I don't really woo, besides if I woo a girl it means I prefer her more than any other woman, and her bits (even if it's just personality) and that's unfair. It's selfish too. It means that for one male to woo a woman he has to be selfish, and put his needs first in place of hers and other women. It's not that I wouldn't prefer her, but I don't socialize with a girl more simply because I like her, that shows I'm just interested in her bits.

I am more indirect in my approach, I want things to be natural, and equal.

It's just contrary to what you said: don't show her you're interested in her bits, but her personality and then woo her? That's why I don't try to woo her, I am just myself around her and every other woman. The moment I show attraction she knows I'm interested in her bits, it's the only reason I'd be trying to woo her in the general sense. Bits even include personality. Anyway do you expect me to be asexual? So I just try not to view her as her bits, and act as if attraction doesn't even come to the picture. Out of respect and courtesy in fact. You dont want me to come off as being too forward right? You never know what is being too forward and what isn't.

You tell me to woo, yet at the same time you want me to show her that I'm not just interested in her bits which means to be ego-less. To woo though means you need to show her you're interested in her personality as a 'bit' and be selfish. That's why I try to get to know a woman first normally with normal situations. If there's a spark then I'll try, because a spark is first necessary. She needs to know that *I* just being myself makes her happy and that I want her happiness to continue by showing her more of me.

Not getting down on my knees and begging, trying to coax or co-erce her.

Isn't it what all women say, just be you?

The moment you TRY to woo, the moment you make effort to "woo" to "seduce" to "play the game" the moment you are set in a trap, and you lose. It's a game to women. Countless men do this, and she's already built a powerful defense mechanism against anything she might think is similar to her past encounters.

You're supposed to show her attraction, and not be forceful. Women laugh in the face of men.

Women laugh in the face of men.

They think it's pathetic that they're actually attracted to women. We're dogs right? Well, it's not like a woman would have a problem finding at least one male to pay attention to them.

You want to get to know her for her beauty correct? Even if it's personality it does show, physically at some point.

That creates attraction.

Edrick is right. It totally depends on the man. Don't you think that all women have already found their man? Because they get to meet hundreds of men in their lives, they have to at least find some one. If they don't, its because they can't see past the men who come up to them and play their vicious game.

"Prove yourself to me, you're the only one that has to prove something".

yea, that sets me up for a lose-lose.

reply to post by The Quiet Storm


Dude?

The advice is for your benefit,at least you could have shown some appreciation.

I don't really woo, besides if I woo a girl it means I prefer her more than any other woman

Oh I see you dont want just one woman,you want all the women and they should all chase you,why exactly,and your having difficulty with even getting one.Shesssh!

Heck if you want to be a swinger go for it,but good luck with that.

I am more indirect in my approach, I want things to be natural, and equal.

All this equality isn`t going to change,what men and woman really are.

My Mrs and me are milesssssss diferent we will never be equal,yet very happy together and inseparable,our differences complement each other and we became ONE,not equal.

It's just contrary to what you said: don't show her you're interested in her bits, but her personality and then woo her?

Dont take it out of context what she is saying,she is saying,focus on her as a person,she`ll know already your interested in her bits,but her bits and your bits are secondary to a mature relationship,if in fact thats what your even looking for?

"Prove yourself to me, you're the only one that has to prove something".

yea, that sets me up for a lose-lose.

If you ever looked for and found a woman that has decent/high qualities that you admire,you had better come to terms with being honored for her to stand next to and by your side.

It seems to me,your not even interested,if you are,you should show a bit more respect to the lady you just responded to,who gave you a compliment,then sound advice that you have simply rejected or has gone way over your head.

So with that in mind I think I`ll save my breathe/typing fingers.All the best TQS.

reply to post by gps777




Dude?

You've never been in my situation. You don't have the experience to know what I'm talking about firsthand. You are "normal". Therefore when I talk about things that "normal" people most people cannot see, you cannot see it either.

You play the game.

I never said I wanted all women. I just said that I'm not going to show a woman more attention simply because I'm attracted to her if she's first not attracted to me, or without knowing if she is.

I do it out of respect for HER and other women. You dont want to give her more attention for something such as lust because for one she won't like it (it all boils down to lust too) unless you're a model or some bad boy who has 'rights' to be that way because it's "the way he is" ie aggressive in nature, and two other women will become offended that it's being superficial and materialistic.

That's why I don't forced "cold pick-up". I don't "try to run game". I don't "approach" her like she's some kind of meat in a market, I don't.

I also never said they should chase me, of course. Though I should chase women right?

Those dynamics are for the jungle where animals are expected to dominate females, many times violently. A game of cat and mouse The most violently dominant and aggressively mating males get the tang the most, in fact they have evolved in such primitive ways.

Did you know that rats make the males chase them, ie playing hard to get, because the more they make men chase her the more satisfaction she will get out of sex, the more persistent, violent and aggressively he mates with her which causes him to be more virile, more sperm to be ejaculated, and the more of a chance that the mate will be successful in creating offspring.

If this happened with humans it would be labelled co-ercion or rape. Oh but actually it DOES happen with humans because we humans have primitive mammalian brains which governs our choices with emotions, etc. Only the nice guys, or unattractive folks can't be persistent, we are being told that we are stalking, being creepy, etc. Which causes more stress. Instead a woman can just reject us, make no moral fit about it. But she makes us out to be terrorists. This causes problems. Most men don't want to be so persistent as it's wrong and it really does mirror co-ercion, force, etc. Wouldn't you know she plays hard to get and a challenge for a reason. Most men comes to learn that women want to be chased, and she loves the thrill of it. In fact she would even cheat and flirt with other men to make her more of a challenge, she loves the thrill. She likes the thrill of making her man furious. She likes the thrill of knowing that men are killing each other for her, dying for her. This is why it's hard for me to believe any woman is different because people are largely governed by their primitive mammalian brains. Read on.. read on before you come to the wrong conclusions about me.

AS for the lady KilgoreTrout... I am a bit cold. I'm tired as I write this and don't have much time to be too emotional and also show too much of myself for it to be taken advantage of.

I'm sorry if I am a bit harsh or inconsiderate.

Though Kilgore Trout.. maybe you just don't see what I see. You are a normal woman just as gps is a normal male. You both participate in 'normal' relationship affairs, and play "the game" the way it is normally played. I'm on the outside, and I see things dynamics of the interaction in a different way than you both. I see things wrong where you would see things are Ok because you simply participate in them and are not sensitized to such things, nor have you gotten the really bade side of it.

Because most male-female sexual dynamics are in fact based on very primitive energies... Not that primal is bad. But unfortunately the primitive energies I speak of are of a violent and aggressive nature, ego-based, and based on longing, pain and fear.

That's what all Romance is based on.

Check romantic love vs companionate love, and consumute love.

here are some links www.relationshipsandlove.com... en.wikipedia.org... www.apa.org...

The foundation of a good relationship is having both companionate AND romantic love. In western society only Romance/Passion is focused on.

Further.. if most relationships are based on romantic lust, they are based on "normal sex" which is ejaculatory sex and goal oriented self pleasure seeking sex. It's all based on longing and pain.

This normal sex not only makes one satiated of their partner until there is no more love, it also depletes love through the Coolidge effect. The Coolidge effect is apparent in all mammals. It is caused by the depletion of energies and love that comes post-ejaculation and post orgasm. People ease sexual tension like it's an itching rather than based on love. Ejaculation depletes hormones, and satiates the man until he no longer wants the women around, literally. That's why at the end of sex most men want to up and leave. Same with women, only most of the time it plays on her subconscious, making her more needy but it ultimately is an act that is to end
in separation. Ie, acting in ways that drive her and her partner to separate.. though women try to fight this more by being excessively needy.. but she also becomes more bitchy and less satisfied with her partner.

This self pleasure seeking goal oriented based sex also causes dopamine to rise during orgasm, just like an addiction does, leading to a depletion of dopamine. The higher you go the more you fall. You body becomes Immune to dopamine Itself, and therefore dopamine enhancing situations. Your capacity to feel dopamine is lessened because the body destroys dopamine receptors to counter excessive dopamine levels in the brain which it cannot handle. Therefore it takes more, and more and more and more to make one satisfied. Until nothing can satisfy. It also causes depletion in dopamine and oxytocin hormones (the cuddle-bonding-love hormone) by wasting reserves, making the body have to build more than it can make. Then after all thats done you have no more.

By having sex to have the goal of seeking more and more and more violently contractionary orgasms makes one more prone to violence too.

So the alternative is to learn karezza, neo-tantric sex practice and daoist sex practice. Not Mantak Chia's BS taoist sex practice but it's ok for a transition because it's still better than normal ejaculatory-orgasm goal oriented based sex. Karezza is non-goal oriented sexuality. It's also called the Loving Embrace. A person does not seek orgasm , the sex is not erratic, it's calm, and meditative. You seek to pleasure your partner rather than yourself, and regular orgasm is not necessary in fact might be detrimental because of it's depleting consequences. It takes two weeks to recover and feel normal again for most people. Many arguments and conflicts in a relationship are caused by this subconsciously. I mean it affects them and their relations with their partner subconsciously. Any type of depleted feelings, drainage, and feeling of uncertainty can be blamed on your partner.

It's the same with drugs. People on their hang-over, are edgier than normal and tend to mistake the feelings they get from the hang-over on people and their environment around them. Whenever they feel disatisfied, etc.

So with this type of practice, sexual dynamics change. Love is strengthened and maintained. Relationships are no longer the hassle they used to be, there's no post orgasm drainage feelings, there's no "love sucks" feelings, and long term relationships actually become possible. and if it's not possible for that particular match, then at least you can leave each other MAINTAINING RESPECT and fealty towards the person, perhaps even love.

More info on karezza www.reuniting.info
Tantric sex, and daoist alchemy well you'll have to research.

It might help to learn about sexual alchemy.

These sex practices are ancient, but the research on it is quite new and experimental, and it's only resurfacing again now. So one has to experiment to see what is best for them. Not saying one cannot have orgasm, its' just that if done alone, and without the pre-cautions, it really does cause problems. Sometimes it's best that you don't orgasm. Sometimes it's best to keep your cup full, it's both satisfying and fulfilling. You're not trying to expend yourself and your love for your partner such that you have no more of yourself and love to give. You're not trying to keep going until you say ENOUGH! to the point that you are in fact repulsed. You want the love to last infinitely.

reply to post by gps777

Edrick sorry pal gotta go against that one.

She is only responding to TQS`s situation and not all men.

If TQS was more selective in his choices it would show women that he has standards and self respect,they will then find that attractive and some will chase him,if he puts himself out there for it to be recognised.

You apparently didn't get the point of my response....

Here... let me Spell it out for you Further:

AMENDMENT XIX

And, as the Feminists Say... the Personal *IS* the political.

-Edrick

Originally posted by The Quiet Storm
You've never been in my situation. You don't have the experience to know what I'm talking about firsthand.

What being single?

Trying to understand either myself as a man or trying to understand women?

If so your dead wrong again.

I wont give you anymore unwanted advice.But now I`m realy struggling to understand the majority of your post.

You are "normal". Therefore when I talk about things that "normal" people most people cannot see, you cannot see it either.

Where do you think your abnormal? and how do you know I`m normal,whats normal nowadays?

You play the game.

What game am I playing?

I never said I wanted all women. I just said that I'm not going to show a woman more attention simply because I'm attracted to her if she's first not attracted to me, or without knowing if she is.

Go back and read what you wrote,if you meant something else,just say so.

I do it out of respect for HER and other women. You dont want to give her more attention for something such as lust because for one she won't like it (it all boils down to lust too) unless you're a model or some bad boy who has 'rights' to be that way because it's "the way he is" ie aggressive in nature, and two other women will become offended that it's being superficial and materialistic.

Its hard to understand what your saying here,what I`m seeing is you dont respect these women,yet you do things out of respect for them?

I also never said they should chase me, of course. Though I should chase women right?

If the woman (singular) is worth chasing is what I was saying.

Those dynamics are for the jungle where animals are expected to dominate females, many times violently. A game of cat and mouse The most violently dominant and aggressively mating males get the tang the most, in fact they have evolved in such primitive ways.

I have never fought over women,I have fought only for a woman,massive difference.

I have had women fight over me when I had no interest in either of them.

Only the nice guys, or unattractive folks can't be persistent, we are being told that we are stalking, being creepy, etc. Which causes more stress. Instead a woman can just reject us, make no moral fit about it. But she makes us out to be terrorists.

A few years ago there was thread here in BTS that a guy started asking for advice about a girl not loving him back,it went on for many pages,the guy would not stop pestering the girl even after she had made it extremly clear that she was not interested in him.

There are times when pursuing a potential partner can become stalking and for women this can be very dangerous.

Wouldn't you know she plays hard to get and a challenge for a reason.

Playing hard to get and flat out NO are two seperate things.

In fact she would even cheat and flirt with other men to make her more of a challenge, she loves the thrill.

Yes I`ve encountered these women,though I`m not the jealous type and they hate that,men can also play these mind games on their g/f`s etc,their not worth my time.

She likes the thrill of making her man furious. She likes the thrill of knowing that men are killing each other for her, dying for her. This is why it's hard for me to believe any woman is different because people are largely governed by their primitive mammalian brains.

Sorry dude not all women are this way,some yes,young ussually,imature without a doubt.

AS for the lady KilgoreTrout... I am a bit cold. I'm tired as I write this and don't have much time to be too emotional and also show too much of myself for it to be taken advantage of.

Have a sleep,ponder whats been written for you,noone I`ve seen is trying to take advantage of you,people have insulted you,but even putting the insults aside you could still see some advice was given for you.

Though Kilgore Trout.. maybe you just don't see what I see. You are a normal woman just as gps is a normal male. You both participate in 'normal' relationship affairs, and play "the game" the way it is normally played. I'm on the outside, and I see things dynamics of the interaction in a different way than you both. I see things wrong where you would see things are Ok because you simply participate in them and are not sensitized to such things, nor have you gotten the really bade side of it.

It would shock most people to know how bad my life has been at times,yet it pales in comparison to what others have gone through and yet still did the right thing and not looked for excuses to give up.

I`ll expand on that and give you an example,the example I choose is one that I maybe able to find a link for you to verify rather than those only seen throughout my life.

I watched a program about 7 years ago about man (born in the 60`s approx) born with deformed genitalia,so the doctors of that time decided to cut off his penis and make a vagina with his moms permission keep him on hormone drugs and raise him as a girl,so he wouldn`t grow up a feel the greif of his deformity,so life went on he/she went through school years and all the while he knew something was wrong with him he somehow knew he was a male,cut a long story short,he investigated and found out what had happened.

In the end of the program they showed him,He married a woman who had children and became a husband and father,this is without testicales or a penis.He just needed a reason to do the right thing.So when someone says to you grow a pair,hmmmm? testicales are not needed in being a good man.

Now I`ve told that story to friends of mine that I grew up with who have wasted their lives on becoming alcholics and drug addicts who are still single and nearly 50 who want special treatment and pity still.


...........................

The Tantric sex and all that,that maybe something for you,heck you may even find your partner if you joined some group that teachs it.But its not for me,life to me is a lot simpler than that,there is no need to complicate things that dont need to be complicated,or fix something thats not broken.

reply to post by Edrick


Well being Australian,I just had to go and look up what your on about,yet I knew already it had to do with womens rights from what you had posted.

How do you know that the women you responded to shares extreme feministic views,to me,I`d rather give someone a chance before judging them.

By saying "I don't mean to be Rude...."

then say....

But where is the Effort on the Girl's behalf here?

OR is she merely a Trophy to be Won?


Why do men have to do the Chasing, but women Don't?

Do you call this Equality?

-Edrick (Amendment XIX)"

To someone where it was not needed is rude even if you say you dont mean it to be.

Its coming off as if you hate all women and they`re all to blame for the woes of the world.

I have no idea of KilgoreTrout`s views other than what she posted above and it was good advice for TQS,his choice was to discard it.

I know your smarter than this and your just picking a fight for the hell of it,I also think you`d do well for yourself to step back from those attitudes and direct your brain power at the real cause.Not random Individuals that meant no harm.

I didn't disregard her advice.

It's just that her advice is not anything I haven't heard before.

And just to add: true sexuality has been hidden from us to keep us being the primitive apes we see today, to keep men and women in conflict, and to make good men suffer and be alone. Therefore all the stuff I talk about is beyond all of you with your 'traditional sexual practice', which TEPTB have pretty much set for you and kept you in.