Convicted paedophile found strangled and dumped in woods

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
Despite the fact I find paedophilia abhorrent, I can't see how anyone on this site could actually condone this man's murder.
[edit on 10-10-2008 by Merriman Weir]

Fine. I wish we could bring him back to life so he could move into your neighborhood and live next to you.

I happen to care.
It’s abhorrent how well these prisoners live.
McNeil island houses prisoners who’ve not only struck once at the heart of the nations children, but again and again and again.
At McNeil island, these freaks are all housed together, so forget any *jail house justice* you might red of occasionally where a child molester is put into jail society and their life is made a living hell by inmates (non abusers).
No!
These guys can all buddy up and hey, who knows what goes on when the lights go down in their *dormitories* at night - relive all their escapades with like kind.
(There are no cells at McNeils, but dormitory type buildings to facilitate the inmates).
These monsters form friendships at McNeil.
These freaks at McNeil form RELATIONSHIPS and are allowed CONJUGAL RIGHTS in those RELATIONSHIPS!
That has got to be the sickest freaking thing I’ve ever heard.
Not only do they get to be around a bunch of their perverted *brothers* - but they are allowed *marriages* (of sorts) and to ACT on them.
They get picnics and social events - with their families from the *outside* no less!
Private televisions, movies, video games.
Access to a wonderful library, including computers and the internet (supposedly supervised).
They get free room and board.
They have holiday parties and birthday celebrations.
They get yummies and presents and gifts.
(By the way I urge each and every one of you who abhor this practice to boycott the outlet who sell and have an *agreement* with McNeil's to send the inmates *quarterly packages*).
They get medical care and advanced medical care (free stomach stapling in the case of obese *clients* of the facility).
Ongoing dental care and reconstructive surgery.
And on and on and on and on.
All at the tax payers expense.

And what do the victims get?
N-O-T-H-I-N-G.

Added Note: To the *Moralists* who say “The USA is suffering the ’wrath of God’ because of gay marriages”.
You make me want to puke.

Yet the same *Moralists* don't have anything to say about the USA going to HELL because it’s HOUSING and CARING FOR and GIVING AID and HELP to REPEAT OFFENDER CHILD MOLESTERS?
Now tell me the priorities in the States are not fouled?
Because if you say they're not, you’re a liar.

Luke 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

...taps...

Originally posted by TheColdDragon
reply to post by Death_Kron

 

I've got a 4 year old. I am also not how one would say an average or typical individual. I've made a study of such behavior, and I've known quite a few people who were victims of such behavior. I've also known several who were instigators.

The fact that you do not want to understand these people speaks towards your own humanity. The fact that you cannot and will not actually learn anything about the topic, you will act only out of emotion and a fear for children everywhere.

Nowhere have I said that Child Rape and Murder is right. All things said and done, to rape and murder is wrong in all cases. Ending a human life, whether Child or Rapist, is wrong.

Yet it is also just as wrong never to understand a situation, but to react merely like an animal in defense of itself. To act sub-human, to act without thought or reason. To let the hind-brain respond for you.

Learn about these people you hate so much. Learn that usually, it isn't Paedophiles who are doing the raping and murdering (But some do the molesting).

You want to kill these people. You don't care if they HAVE done anything wrong, do you? They are other, alien, and unfathomable.

You probably cannot discern the difference between Paedophile looking at Kiddie Porn, Paedophile drawing Kiddie Porn, Paedophile Reading Kiddie Porn and Paedophile Raping babies.

This is the impression that I get from such people; that they are not willing to discern the difference and want all such people murdered in cold blood.

Again heres another typical response from someone who feels it nesscessary to justify the execution of a sick, twisted individual who shouldn't be on the planet in the first place.

"Learn about these people you hate so much" Well unless your talking about learning about the ones who do actually have some sort of mental condition then I'm not really sure what your talking about here?

Now please don't tell me if I knew more about the subject then I would know they all have something wrong mentally. Maybe they do, maybe they don't but at the end of the day it isn't responsible for their physical actions.

"merely like an animal in defense of itself. To act sub-human, to act without thought or reason" Haha isn't this exactly how the perpetrators acting? Like an animal and sub-human?

What I find funny and what ultimately flaws your argument is everything you said that in your post about my oppinions regarding peadophiles actually describes the peadophiles in question perfectly!

People who sexually abuse, torture, rape and kill children should be killed themselves simple as that. I can see no reason as to why these individuals should be allowed to live, this isn't acting out of fear and emotion, this is acting out of justice and to protect other INNOCENT people.

And when you say I'm talking about a situation that I do not understand, could you tell me what there is to understand about a 60 year old kidnapping a 5 year old little girl, taking her to the woods to rape her and then kill her? Thanks.

Originally posted by TheColdDragon
I empathize with Paedophiles. I do not empathize with Child-Rapists or Kid-Killers.

If you really mean empathise, then I think you're either very unique to this thread or you have a spurious understanding of the word.

On some level despite my not condoning paedophilia, I do pity the paedophile. If it's a true sexuality as some suggest, then it's a twist of fate or subject to the same subconscious imprinting processes as the rest of the succumb to. There's also the evidence that for some paedophiles that this is merely a cycle, that they were abused themselves at some point and at therefore, also a victim in this - although obviously not the only one if they are perpetuating abuse. There's also the thinking that it's a genuine psychiatric illness and like any illness - psychiatric or not - how can that actually the fault of the person?

Despite my ability to look at these points, what I feel isn't empathy. Are you sure you actually mean "empathy"?

And herein lies the crux of the problem; 97% of judges, juries, lawyers, statisticians, doctors, parents, children, and the american populace cannot be reasonable or impartial about Pedophilia. They don't even know the bloody difference between the act of being attracted to inappropriately aged children and Child-Rape and Murder.

To be fair to the Americans, judging by this thread, it's not a position unique to them.

Yes. Yes, all for a fair justice system. I am all for a system that prosecutes and treats all criminals fairly and with an even hand. The problem is human emotion isn't limited to the public.

I personally never said it was. However, I'm in favour of an objective justice system that isn't driven by emotions, whether it actually exists or not. Even if it's only hypothetical, it's still favourable to me than a vigilante-based justice system.

reply to post by Merriman Weir



Were not animals we know right from wrong. And to defend behavior by saying there mentally ill is no excuse. Human beings have compulsions every day but as humans we have the capability to reason and decide thats not a good idea. I If getting rid of 1 pedophile saves one kid from having to experience that great. And ive got a 5 year old daughter and so help me if i ever found out someone harmed her they wouldnt make it to trial.

Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

Were not animals we know right from wrong. And to defend behavior by saying there mentally ill is no excuse. Human beings have compulsions every day but as humans we have the capability to reason and decide thats not a good idea. I If getting rid of 1 pedophile saves one kid from having to experience that great. And ive got a 5 year old daughter and so help me if i ever found out someone harmed her they wouldnt make it to trial.

Amen to that!

I agree with everything you have said, we need to protect the innocent. Now I'm not suggesting everyone go out and hunt down the local sex beast but it really does enrage me when I hear people sticking up for the attackers in question.

Cheers

Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

Were not animals we know right from wrong. And to defend behavior by saying there mentally ill is no excuse. Human beings have compulsions every day but as humans we have the capability to reason and decide thats not a good idea. I If getting rid of 1 pedophile saves one kid from having to experience that great. And ive got a 5 year old daughter and so help me if i ever found out someone harmed her they wouldnt make it to trial.

This is the problem with the a lot of this thread. People really don't understand what they're reading or writing.

I'll ask you a very straight and simple question: can you actually point out in the post that you've quoted where I actually defend paedophiles? You accuse me of doing so but can you actually say where I've done it?

Or will you point you where you think I defend paedophiles but not really understand the meanings of the words I'm using? Perhaps because you're so wound-up with your lynch mob hysteria?

I extend that to Death_Kron too as he, apparently, agrees with everything you've said.

It's posts like these that underline why we shouldn't have a lynch mob mentality.

[edit on 13-10-2008 by Merriman Weir]

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

Were not animals we know right from wrong. And to defend behavior by saying there mentally ill is no excuse. Human beings have compulsions every day but as humans we have the capability to reason and decide thats not a good idea. I If getting rid of 1 pedophile saves one kid from having to experience that great. And ive got a 5 year old daughter and so help me if i ever found out someone harmed her they wouldnt make it to trial.

This is the problem with the a lot of this thread. People really don't understand what they're reading or writing.

I'll ask you a very straight and simple question: can you actually point out in the post that you've quoted where I actually defend paedophiles? You accuse me of doing so but can you actually say where I've done it?

Or will you point you where you think I defend paedophiles but not really understand the meanings of the words I'm using? Perhaps because you're so wound-up with your lynch mob hysteria?

I extend that to Death_Kron too as he, apparently, agrees with everything you've said.

It's posts like these that underline why we shouldn't have a lynch mob mentality.

[edit on 13-10-2008 by Merriman Weir]

Yes to be fair I do agree with everything dragonridr has, I too believe that taking even one peadophile off the streets is a good thing and I also agree that human beings might have compulsions, some of which may result from mental illness however as pointed out we should have the capability of restraint.

I have never once in this thread said I want vigilante-based justice system, I just want justice for the innocent and I really, really cannot understand how or why people feel the need to jump in defence of the peadophiles.

It's a pretty simple equation really, if you rape and take a childs life then you have your life taken from you. Now if I was running the country I'd make them suffer in the exact way their victim/s did with the victims family watching and laughing at them in the process.

If the crime was committed due to some form of mental illness and this could be proved without a doubt then a simple bullet to the head would suffice.

How can people think its wrong to take a peadophiles life? These people are the lowest of the low, the scum of the earth. What about the poor victims life prematurely cut short through a crime they would not even be able to comprehend? What about the victims poor mother & father and the mental pain they will carry for the rest of their lifes?

But yet people complain and say they attacker should be spared death, they get to stay in prison for the rest of their lifes, eating 3 solid meals a day, access to DVD's/TV, recreational facilities all whilst in the company of like minded individuals who they can sit down with and chat about their sick fantasies?

That doesnt really sound like punishment does it, in fact it sounds like heaven for a peadophile!

Edit to add: Also think about the physical pain the victims had to suffer, horrific physical and sexual injuries and yet people are saying its wrong to kill the perpretator? Thats probably the most backward thing I have ever heard in my life!

[edit on 13/10/08 by Death_Kron]

[edit on 13/10/08 by Death_Kron]

reply to post by thebox


I have to throw in my 2 cents. On this matter I am of two minds on the subject, first who ever killed him was way to nice to him (ie. he was killed too fasr), the second thought is that the karma he got from his deeds will follow his soul for all eternity.

Originally posted by Death_Kron

Yes to be fair I do agree with everything dragonridr has,

Again, you've stated you agree with everything dragonridr has said, so can you, in light of his accusation, actually point out were I've defended paedophiles or paedophilia in the post dragonridr replied to? I ask because as, you keep saying, you agree with his post.

I too believe that taking even one peadophile off the streets is a good thing and I also agree that human beings might have compulsions, some of which may result from mental illness however as pointed out we should have the capability of restraint.

So where is the restraint in this particular story?

I have never once in this thread said I want vigilante-based justice system, I just want justice for the innocent and I really, really cannot understand how or why people feel the need to jump in defence of the peadophiles.

You've actually advocated the actions of this particular vigilante action. In your first post on this thread you said:

Well done to the people who did this, they deserve a medal

How is that not supporting the actions of a vigilante-based justice system? Later, in the same post you admit:

I will say that if someone did what this man did to my children then I'm afraid he would have a very horrific end to his life

Which is a declaration that not only do you support the actions of those who have done it, is also saying you'd do the same thing yourself. How, exactly, is that not you wanting a "vigilante-based justice system"? Do you want me to go through all your posts and point out where you're contradicting yourself?

We don't have a death penalty in this country. You think we should , and I accept that, but in lieu of us not having that, you are happy that vigilantism exists to redress what you see as a problem. So how is that not wanting vigilantism? Perhaps you'd rather a legal death penalty, however, you and have been vocal in support of vigilantism as a means with which to redress what you see as a failing in our justice system. That's still "wanting" vigilante action.

If the crime was committed due to some form of mental illness and this could be proved without a doubt then a simple bullet to the head would suffice.

So you now want to execute mentally ill people, despite the fact that their illness isn't their fault? And you really can't see the flaw in your argument?

[edit on 13-10-2008 by Merriman Weir]

Just wanted to add that if a pedophile/sex attacker/pervert had commited on of their crimes against the children of any single one of the people on here defending them then it would be a different story.

They would not be at peace or happy until they knew that person was dead and I don't think it would give them a sense of release knowing that their still alive sitting in a jail.

Originally posted by dragonridr
Were not animals we know right from wrong.

Scientifically we are animals, i suppose you're applying the moral sense of the word.

Originally posted by dragonridr
And to defend behavior by saying there mentally ill is no excuse. Human beings have compulsions every day but as humans we have the capability to reason and decide thats not a good idea.

Well i don't think that paedophiles are mentally ill, i think it's a sexuality and as such they are able to control it if they wanted to. What you miss is the fact that many of these people probably have these feelings and never at upon them their entire lives. Should we imprison for their thoughts or only if they act?

Originally posted by dragonridr
I If getting rid of 1 pedophile saves one kid from having to experience that great. And ive got a 5 year old daughter and so help me if i ever found out someone harmed her they wouldnt make it to trial.

Well life in prison tends to limit someones ability to abuse children. It's also a worse punishment than death so i'd have thought you'd be behind the idea.


To those in this thread who keep saying "Why are people defending paedophiles". Well we are not defending them, we are defending the legal system that seperates us from the other animals. The system which encourages punishment for a crime based on evidence and emotionless punishment.

You see the moment you enter emotion into law then it isn't law anymore. It becomes flawed, biased and will lead to many injustices. Either you have a vigilante system or a blind legal system, you cannot have both.

[edit on 13-10-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by Death_Kron
Just wanted to add that if a pedophile/sex attacker/pervert had commited on of their crimes against the children of any single one of the people on here defending them then it would be a different story.

Again, this point about people "defending" paedophiles. Are you going to answer my earlier question: where is the defence of paedophiles in this thread?

Originally posted by Death_Kron
Just wanted to add that if a pedophile/sex attacker/pervert had commited on of their crimes against the children of any single one of the people on here defending them then it would be a different story.

Ok this is getting rediculous, see my above post. I don't think anyone here is defending paedophiles. They are defending the legal system and the rule of law. We are defending the system that seperates us from the rest of the animal kingdom, a system that relies upon being fair by a lack of emotion. A system which can never be based upon emotion otherwise it would be biased and end up causing injustice.

What you are doing here is trying to deflect our arguements by saying we're defending paedophiles, which in essence makes you quite dishonest.

reply to post by Death_Kron

Just wanted to add that if a pedophile/sex attacker/pervert had commited on of their crimes against the children of any single one of the people on here defending them then it would be a different story.

*High Five*



Thanks

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I think he may be referring to me, who Does defend a Pedophile's right to exist, but not necessarily their right to harm someone. Even should harm happen, I am firmly of the belief that it is never morally right to take a human life no matter the reason.

Others can go right ahead and take a life if they want. Perhaps I should give up on trying to show people how caught up in their own emotions they are.

Let me put this in a way that, maybe, others can understand. There are some branches of every belief structure that are so extreme and radical in their views that they propogate a hatred towards those branches. Take for example Greenpeace; there is a certain subsection of Greenpeace that wants every single human being wiped off the face of the earth, because we are evil and animals are pure and good.

I see this as an inverse example of the dehumanization people use on anything that seems remotely like paedophilia. I don't think I've said anywhere in this discussion that I thought it was right or good that kids get hurt, or raped, or killed.... or all of the above. That certainly isn't right.

It just is also not right to kill a human being.

Seems every time a subject like this comes up we have allot of people condoning murder. I always thought we couldn't condone illegal activities at ATS, but what the hell do I know. This thread title and some of the responses read as if celebrating the death of another human being.

While we're at it how about we talk about slaughtering some of the Bankers who've destroyed our world by creating misery and starvation throughout our planet as a result of their personal greed or how about the Hollywood corporations who sexualize children and perhaps create the idea in weak minds in the first place?

Also, you might want to be careful how you label these people you want to kill. Last week I heard a story of a 15 year old girl who took pictures of herself naked with her cellphone camera and sent it to some of her classmates. Well, somebody turned her in and the prosecutors are charging her with possessing & distributing child pornography and she will have to register as a sex offender if she's convicted. Are you going to kill her too, after you find her on the local register labeled as a pedophile?

I suggest that it would be acceptable if you killed somebody caught in the act of such crimes against children as it could be a momentary loss of control. I would also accept someone who hunted and killed a perp that acted upon his own family. No doubt - If somebody harmed my child I could very well lose control and become an equally despicable person by murdering the offender.

So, yes if it was your own child I could understand and I think it has happened and cases have often been dropped or juries have handed out lighter sentences to those that have murdered perps who've done crimes against their families.

Problem is I see people here wanting to kill people that have nothing to do with them personally. Vigilantes needing to kill people in order to fulfill some emotional need that is perhaps less civilized behavior than those they're wishing to extinguish from our world. Same reason I don't condone the death penalty, because I find it abhorrent to allow state employees to kill people as a way to make a living. That behavior is suspect. Besides we only need to look at the corrupt courts in Texas that have convicted more innocent people than anywhere else in the world - perhaps. How many sadistic demons are employed by the state in order to fulfill their agendas?

Also, the idea by a few posters here about how prison/jail is such an easy way of life for these people. How do you know this - have you been to prison or even jail?

You say they have it better there than what they had on the outside world? Where do you get your statistics? Made up in your heads no doubt.

I suggest you don't have a clue what it's like and most of you would be crying to mama on the phone that your bed is a straw mat covered in plastic on concrete or steel bunk, the food taste like crap and is the same everyday and is full of bugs cold and makes you sick all the time.

Prison and Jail is punishment - you are told what to do and when to do it and you have minimal contact with your loved ones. The fact is we can't afford to put everyone away forever, so they have to be managed with privileges such as recreation or tv (drug) and educated if possible before we let them back to free society. Anyone who complains that convicts can get an education is nothing but jealous of somebody who's screwed up getting a second chance.

[edit on 13-10-2008 by verylowfrequency]

Originally posted by TheColdDragon
I empathize with Paedophiles. I do not empathize with Child-Rapists or Kid-Killers.

I guess it really depends on how you define a pedophile. Most here would define a pedophile as someone that has "acted" on that attraction in some way by either molesting children or indirectly victimizing children by collecting child pornography.

Now if a guy has THOUGHT about it, but has rejected those thoughts because he knows it is wrong, and he has never ever acted on that impulse in ANY WAY I don't think most here would consider him to be a pedophile.

No one here claims to be the thought police. People have the right to think whatever they like, however when their actions turn outward and other people REALIZE that they are thinking about it then it becomes a problem.

Here's a genuine question.

There's a big theme of 'what if it was your kid' running throughout this thread. A very emotive hypothetical scenario.

It's documented that at least some paedophiles are actually caught in a cycle of abuse. As children, often by someone they knew well, they were abused themselves. There's a lot of 'if this happened to my kids, just lock me in a room with them and I'll give 'em justice' type comments.

Imagine that did happen. It happened to the child of one of the would-be lynch mob, they were abused by a paedophile. They might eventually actually track the person responsible down and, in a back alley somewhere, masked by traffic noise and the poor street lighting, they kill the paedophile. They might not even get caught for it and so carry on for the rest of their lives happy with the belief they did the right thing.

Years later, their child is no longer a child as is now an adult themselves. However, like at least some children in these kinds of stories, they make that paradigm shift from being the abused to being an abuser: they become a paedophile themselves and abuse someone else's children.

What then, does the lynch mob have no qualms about killing their own - now adult - children themselves or perhaps letting another lynch mob do the killing whilst standing back knowing they're doing the right thing? You know, those very same children that they were willing to kill someone else for in the first place? To turn on them too, just as easily?

Or will it be different then?

Again, a genuine question.

Originally posted by TheColdDragon
I think he may be referring to me, who Does defend a Pedophile's right to exist, but not necessarily their right to harm someone. Even should harm happen, I am firmly of the belief that it is never morally right to take a human life no matter the reason.

Well lets be clear here, if a paedophile ever acts upon their thoughts i have the belief that they should be locked up for the entirety of their lives. In fact i havn't seen any post on this thread that is in favour of any paedophiles, hence my annoyance with the previous post.

Originally posted by TheColdDragon
Others can go right ahead and take a life if they want. Perhaps I should give up on trying to show people how caught up in their own emotions they are.

Isn't that the point though? Taking a life is based upon emotion with these crimes. We should be logical and follow the laws, life in prison seems appropriate. Although maybe im cruel as i see life in prison worse than death.

Originally posted by TheColdDragon
Let me put this in a way that, maybe, others can understand. There are some branches of every belief structure that are so extreme and radical in their views that they propogate a hatred towards those branches. Take for example Greenpeace; there is a certain subsection of Greenpeace that wants every single human being wiped off the face of the earth, because we are evil and animals are pure and good.

I see this as an inverse example of the dehumanization people use on anything that seems remotely like paedophilia. I don't think I've said anywhere in this discussion that I thought it was right or good that kids get hurt, or raped, or killed.... or all of the above. That certainly isn't right.

It just is also not right to kill a human being.

My opinion is simple. If a person has thoughts of abusinga child but never acts upon them then i have no legal issue with them. They disgust me but i would not arrest them as they havn't done anything wrong.

What bothers me is that people in this thread see any opinion that doesn't involve killing these ofenders as defending them. It's a rediculous notion.