Convicted paedophile found strangled and dumped in woods

reply to post by dave420


Pedophiles do not come forward for treatment.
Drug dealers do not volunteer for help.
Rapists do not surrender to the authorities.
That is underscored by the fact that criminals do most of their deeds at night, and take precautions to hide and conceal their misdeeds.
SO they WONT get caught or apprehended.

To put forth that if we just Understood the poor suffering little darlings, then they could amend their life is placing the responsibility and blame on everyone else, society, and Dr.'s and not on the person who did the deed.

That is not anything but an excuse and license for a demented person to continue their crimes.

You need to go to college and get a degree in Social Work. You already have the mind set for one. Been drinking too much water with a lot of estrogen in it?

Basic human nature is evil. Society that lives by rule of law and by ten commandments, golden rule or what ever codified code of conduct is merely indoctrinating everyone into an external set of laws, rules because those rules and values do not exist in and of themselves inside a person. They must be taught and learned and enforced by consequences. Those laws, rules, taboos, morals, values, inhibitions, all serve to control and stop impulses and urges originating from an evil human nature.

Crime = violation of a set of commonly believed and adhered to laws and rules. It has been historically common to set up punishments and consequences for violations of those rules and laws.

Most humans in the face of overwhelming social pressure to follow these laws do so. A certain percent choose to not follow the rules. This is in spite of overwhelming social pressure to do so and they ultimately choose to not follow the rules.

Some rules when violated are so awful as to require the loss of life of the rule violator. And so it is , has been and will be on earth.

As long as human nature remains what it basically is and that is evil.

So our deceased pedophile got just and equitable consequences for his offense.

This talk of mental illness is disgusting. Take two examples:

1) J is schizophrenic and hears voice that tell him to rape the little girl. He is out of control of his own actions. He does it.

2) S can't stop thinking about little girls. He decides to act out his fantasy and rape one. He does it.

J, though guilty of the crime, perhaps deserves lifetime institutionalization and treatment for his condition. Why? Because a real mental condition prevented him from exercising judgment.

S is not mentally ill and no treatment will "fix" him. He chose an act of absolute evil, and he should be prepared to face the consequences.

So, are there mentally ill molesters? Of course. Is peadophilia a mental illness? No, unless evil is a mental illness and the human condition is entirely without ethical value, moral choice, and any hope of real redemption.


Another point:

We all know deep down that this is a choice and not a mental illness. Why? Let me ask you men this. Which man among you has not looked at a pubescent teenaged girl and percieved her in a sexual way? This is not something to be ashamed of. This is hard wired into our brains. It is only since we as a society adopted standards to protect our children that young girls were considered off limits after their sexual maturity. We do not respect the boundaries of children because a mentally well person would do so, we respect them because we have a choice, and we choose to do what is best for the child, at the cost of our own instinctive pleasure and potential procreation.

Those who break this social contract are not "ill," they are criminals. They are people who choose their pleasure over consideration for others. We call them "animals" because that is quite clearly what they have chosen - to ignore the intelligence they have been given in order to satisfy their basest desires.


By the way, just imagine if John McCain had run on a platform of a mandatory death penalty for all child molesters. He would win in a landslide. Despite the protests of the social scientists, people are very, very angry over this continued problem, and they will continue to put down the animals who threaten their children.

[edit on 15-10-2008 by Grumble]

A pedophile is the lowest of the low in the scum department. The only thing that comes close is a rapist.

In my opinion, whomever killed this piece of trash should be thanked for handling a job that should have been handled by the "proper" authorities.

IF the court system fails to bring justice to a child rapist/killer/etc, it should be the responsibility of the citizens to ensure that the proper justice is handed down.

It seems as if pedophilia is more and more becoming a 'lesser' offense in the eyes of the court system and even some citizens of the states (as evidenced by replies here..you people disgust me.)

While some might find it wrong that sexual relations with a child be regulated by the government, one would have to be mentally deficient to not see an adult kidnapping, raping, killing a HELPLESS child as grounds for SEVERE punishment.


If things keep on the same path, I fear we'll be having "PedoPride" parades before too long.

Back to definitions for a moment please?

Again, by definition a pedophile is someone who is sexually attracted to prepubescent children (of either gender). Some studies and reports would seem to indicate that pedophilia is "hard-wired" in some people just as heterosexuality (and being attracted to ADULTS of the opposite gender) is "hard-wired" in most people. A pedophile can (and I think probably many do) choose not to act on his sexual preferences, just as some "normal" people choose celibacy for life.

A pedophile who has acted on them can then properly be called a child rapist or a child abuser, and THIS is the person we are (or should be?) concerned with. A person who has harmed a child.

Another thing to remember is that not all people who torture, abuse, or even rape children are actually pedophiles. Some are simply carrying out their desires for control, violence, torture, etc. on the most vulnerable and easiest to control victims - children.

So could we get our terminology straight and differentiate if we are talking about a child abuser/rapist, someone who has actually harmed a child, and if no outside action is taken, will do so again, or all pedophiles regardless of whether they act on their sexual deviance?

---

What is the difference between revenge and punishment? I say it is that punishment is intended to teach a lesson. Revenge doesn't care. If there is no lesson which can be learned, then punishment is only revenge. Many (most?) child abusers who are pedophiles can not actually be taught to feel differently than they do, and most (in my personal opinion) can not be deterred from acting on their desires because the compulsion is too strong (especially after it has been satisfied even once) by any punishment. So the real question is, do we condone revenge? If we do, are we not back to "an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind"? Did we not collectively, as civilized society, give up revenge in favor of justice?

And then, what is justice when there can be no punishment, only revenge? I would say that justice is protecting society; protecting the public and most especially the children who can not protect themselves.

So here, in my opinion, is the real question: What is the best way to protect children from child abusers? Jail sentences are clearly not the answer; jail is intended to be a punishment that teaches the criminal not to act in that manner again. But, (again in my opinion), the child abuser, especially one who is a "real" pedophile, can not be effectively taught this lesson. No amount of jail time will change his sexual preference or his compulsion to act on it, regardless of good intentions, guilt, remorse, etc.

So what then? Can we collectively agree that execution is the best justice? Certainly it does protect the children, permanently. Do we collectively agree that it is fair and reasonable justice? Or what about castration? If it worked, would that be acceptable?
What other choices are possible, and how would we go about changing the legal system to work for us and provide reasonable justice (permanent and infallible protection of the children) in these cases?

These are the issues, concerns, and questions we should be discussing. Otherwise all of you "hooray for the person who killed him, he deserved what he got" people may just as well say "I believe in revenge rather than justice" and be done with it. Some of us may then feel personally that you are somewhat less than what we normally consider a "civilized" member of our society, but so be it, right? You don't really care, do you? Steal from anyone who steals from you, hurt anyone who hurts you, kill anyone who kills one of your loved ones .. does being able to say "but he started it!" or "he did it first!" like a child caught in wrong act of vengeance really make you any better than them now? If you think so, so be it, but be honest and admit to it.

For the rest of us, let's consider what is appropriate and civilized justice instead of arguing the merits of various means of revenge with those who are trying to disguise it as punishment.

Originally posted by Grumble
This talk of mental illness is disgusting. Take two examples:

1) J is schizophrenic and hears voice that tell him to rape the little girl. He is out of control of his own actions. He does it.

J, though guilty of the crime, perhaps deserves lifetime institutionalization and treatment for his condition. Why? Because a real mental condition prevented him from exercising judgment.

Careful with that rational thinking, you'll have someone's eye out if you're not careful.

Reading through this thread, it's quite apparent that there's many people on here that believe 'J' should also be lynched too. Mental illness is no excuse, apparently, and everyone has control over their actions, apparently.

He's a dirty paedo and that's all that matters and there can only be one verdict.

reply to post by Heike


Good post. One thing that is really sad is that I do believe some pedophiles think of these things and do not act on them, or feel extreme guilt if they DO act on them. And it does appear that castration is quite effective for stopping sex crimes.

But if they were to ask for help, if they asked for chemical castration BEFORE acting out (and I believe some would) I bet they would not receive any. I don't think the government or anyone else would be likely to give them anything of that sort. If they did not have the money for doctors and drugs they would be out of luck.

reply to post by thebox


I believe totally that punishment should fit the crime...!!!

1. Rapists should in turn be Raped (publicly).

2. Murderers should be executed (publicly)!!!

3. Pedo's should be...Ummmm, see no 1.

4. Shpolifters should have their hands cut off...(they still do this in some Muslim countries & this is prolly' the only thing they do that I agree on..lol).

5. Con Artists who rip ppl off, should have their bank accounts emptied & divided out into the community.

Etc, etc, etc.

Thigs would be so much simpler.

Sounds like a suicide to me. LOL

Originally posted by CA_Orot
All insults aside gentlemen...

You are just going to have to agree to disagree on this particular topic - as there is no way in swaying either opinion one way or another...

I just pose one question to Sanctum.....

What if it was your child...and what if that man was the man who assualted him or her, would you still hold the same position? Would you stand idly by as the courts granted a sentence (that perhaps you don't necessarily agree with), and how would you feel on the day that they were released from prison...? Would you feel that his debt to society was paid, and that justice was served for your child?

Just a question..

- Carrot

You're very clever. Are you trying to side with BlueOrder or impress him with your intellectual trap on me with a moral Catch-22?

Let me put it this way. Even if there was temptation to go and cry for blood, I let the State deal with it. Because it is their job to carry out the sentencing, provided they have evidence. If he served 20 years, that's how long he'll serve. By then, he won't be able to find me nor my child (if I had a child, that is).

If I did'nt like to see what's going on in the courtroom, all I have to do is turn off my hearing-aid.

If I was obsessed with this criminal, cried a river for 20 years wanting him to die, then I just wasted 20 years of my life not moving on for my child. Get it? Those who cry for blood are wasting their lives and breath away and just have to find a way to move on. I'll say that even if family and victim are traumatized by the event, there are avenues for them to deal with psychological treatment.

Crying for blood, waiting 20 years for a death sentence to be carried out on the criminal is borderline obsessive and sick. To the State, it's business, not personal. To the victims, it's personal and yet they have to learn to get past that. A death sentence is NOT going to help the victim get past it.

So if my child gets abused, I'm on his/her side regardless. I have to make sure my child grows up and learn how to adapt, move on and live.

The sweetest revenge is living well. Not living a bitter one.

But I have a more interesting question for you. What about those pedophile priests in church that have gotten away with it over 10 or 20 years? Should there be justice or blood revenge for them?

[edit on 16-10-2008 by Sanctum1972]

reply to post by thebox


awesome, too bad it wasn't sooner

You know, the people here that are against killing this man are probably the same ones who are pro-abortion, oh excuse me, "pro-choice". You get what you give, and this man was scum, along with any other child molester, screw 'em. Someone that would have the audacity to molest an innocent child deserves to die, yes I said DESERVE. If I molested a child, I only HOPE someone would take it in their hands and put a bullet in my head.


^^^ oh and yes, for the priests in the church that have done it for you say 10-20 years, i would put a bullet in one of their heads as quick as anyone else.



[edit on 17-10-2008 by Slazer]

Originally posted by Slazer
You know, the people here that are against killing this man are probably the same ones who are pro-abortion, oh excuse me, "pro-choice". You get what you give, and this man was scum, along with any other child molester, screw 'em. Someone that would have the audacity to molest an innocent child deserves to die, yes I said DESERVE. If I molested a child, I only HOPE someone would take it in their hands and put a bullet in my head.


^^^ oh and yes, for the priests in the church that have done it for you say 10-20 years, i would put a bullet in one of their heads as quick as anyone else.



[edit on 17-10-2008 by Slazer]

Even if the priests are convicted from the lawsuits from all over the country recently, they should go to prison. The people who sued are already grown young adults or adults over the age of 30, in most of the cases. The cases are generally settled out of pocket because they are at least 10 plus years old and not much evidence is presented let alone the witnesses who present their word against them.

The problem with the logic of taking revenge in your hands, killing those people that you don't know personallly, the system will catch you regardless. In other words, they commit the crime, people like you kill them, and the System KILLS you. Now, if the System kills you, should people take revenge on the System itself?

It's not eye for an eye. It's an eye for an eye, for an eye. The System is there in place so civilization does'nt fall back into medievalist attitudes. Would you rather live in the 21st Century or the 14th Century of the Great Inquisition? Trust me, the 14th Century is NOT where you want to be at.

Originally posted by blueorder

I shall drink a glass of merlot over your passing too and perhaps play some Kinks record- and you can be assured that although I disagree with your assessment of someone being a bigot because they want firm justice for kiddie f***ers, you can be assured that bigotry will live on- think I'll make that two glasses.

yes yes, and your tin foil hat suits you sir


Or I could live in a society where the state does that, as used to happen, you stick to your wee comic books , I think you are probably a serious comic book collector, Im not wrong am I

you pervert meanings, Ill teach my kids to hate those who would molest them, and drink a glass of wine over sad little men with their comic books as they pass


[edit on 15-10-2008 by blueorder]

Merlot? I'd prefer Cabernet-Sauvignon and some cuban cigars. And still, your point of view is too bigoted for this world. You must fit right in with Nazi Germany.

I don't collect comics and work in the design industry.

And I'll drink a glass of wine over sad little men with children who continue to spew ignorance and hatred.

And you're now on ignore.

reply to post by Sanctum1972



I get what you're saying, but in my particular case, I would only have myself to blame if I did kill a child molester. But, in my opinion, it would be the right thing to do, so I would sit in prison for the rest of my life if I had to. But most courts wouldn't give me too harsh of a penalty unless you get a real liberal judge.

Listen, I'm speaking from personal experience. My cousin who I'm very close to was molested by my uncle, me and along with a few of my family members said that if we ever see him again, he's dead. Last I heard, he's living up in Alaska. We all live in Texas, he moved across the whole country, because he knows we would kill him.

[edit on 17-10-2008 by Slazer]

Yesterday in Chat we had an awesome discussion on this thread, right Heike? I want to clarify, that I am not of the opinion that Revenge SHOULD be carried out by the Parent; but I don't know that I could personally exercise self restraint.

Originally posted by Sanctum1972
You're very clever. Are you trying to side with BlueOrder or impress him with your intellectual trap on me with a moral Catch-22?

I'm not trying to be clever. I'm not trying to lure you into an intellectual trap. I'm not trying to side with/impress BlueOrder. Your assumptions, and throwing accusations in my direction is a feeble attempt at making me look like jerk for asking you those questions. I assure you, I'm not a jerk, and you and I probably have more in common that either of us think when it comes to this topic.

I asked you those questions becuase I believe you should consider the possible feelings that the parents are feeling. The feelings that MIGHT push someone into murdering their childs abuser. I asked you to see the issue in a different light, from a different perspective. I asked you to turn on another light in this room, who knows, in the corner there might be something worth seeing. THAT was the goal here - Perspective.

Even if there was temptation to go and cry for blood, I let the State deal with it. Because it is their job to carry out the sentencing, provided they have evidence. If he served 20 years, that's how long he'll serve. By then, he won't be able to find me nor my child (if I had a child, that is).

I wish, that I had the ability to trust the Justice System as much as you do; I however do not share your enthusiasm on this particular topic. The option of Parole, and getting off on Good Behavior - are terms that would be on my mind constantly. NOT to mention to Defense attorney is going to TRY THEIR hearts out searching for a technicality, and to make a Plea Bargain.

What if he got off? What if he NEVER went to Jail? What if there was Insufficient Evidence to Convict him? What if, Justice was never served for your child...I pose to you another question, hypothetically:

How do you think you would feel? What do you think you would do? What would you tell your child? How would you tell your child that this man will not be paying for his crimes?

In this situation, I don't know that I could exercise the self control NOT to put a bullet in his head. I don't know that I could do nothing...

Crying for blood, waiting 20 years for a death sentence to be carried out on the criminal is borderline obsessive and sick.
...
A death sentence is NOT going to help the victim get past it.

I agree that crying for blood is not a healthy way to live your life. Obsessing for a death sentence, is not healthy. Seeing a Psychologist to help work through the problems, and cope with the situation is a much better approach.

However, the second part of your quote I disagree with. I think that for some people, knowing that their abuser is dead, could offer them a sense of closure; it doesn't make it right (and that is NOT what I am suggesting), but, it could help them move on.

So if my child gets abused, I'm on his/her side regardless. I have to make sure my child grows up and learn how to adapt, move ona and live.

The sweetest revenge is living well. Not living a bitter one.

Agreed. Making sure the child grows up and learns to cope with their experience is essential in their development into adults. Later on in life though, these children will shows signs of abuse. These children will be affected for a long time, and long term therapy is probably one of the best ways to deal with an issue such as this.

My mother (45) just started dealing with her abuse as a child. Nearly 40 years later, and she is JUST coming to terms with it now. She has problems with sex, and problems with trusting men. After my Great Uncle Died, it all came out in the open. It turns out, not just my mother, but all of her brothers and sisters, suffer from the same problems when it comes to sex and relationships...Would they be better off had they all had therapy and counselling to help them cope? Probably.

After the discussion in Chat yesterday, I'm leaning towards your idea : The sweetest revenge is living well. Not living a bitter one.

This is true. But if I was a parent, and my child was a victim, I don't know that I could take the high road. I don't know that I wouldn't put a bullet between his eyes. I don't know how I would act, or if I could surpress my anger. I would like to think that I wouldn't be spending the rest of my life in prison - for murdering the sorry SOB - but, I just don't know.

But I have a more interesting question for you. What about those pedophile priests in church that have gotten away with it over 10 or 20 years? Should there be justice or blood revenge for them?

Good Question. The victims of abuse by the said priests, would probably want revenge. And I can't blame them, as I don't know what they are feeling. Justice, not revenge, is what I would want for the Victims. And the Priests(as well as other pedophiles) removed from Society, as I believe they are a threat.

I leave you with your question as well: What do you think should be done about the pedophile preists? *Assuming there is no statute of limitations which protects them from being convicted of a crime* (Do they have a statute of limitations on Rape/Child Molestation Cases? Probably differs with each state..right?)...

- Carrot

Edit: Spelling

[edit on 10/17/2008 by CA_Orot]

Originally posted by Slazer
reply to post by Sanctum1972

 

I get what you're saying, but in my particular case, I would only have myself to blame if I did kill a child molester. But, in my opinion, it would be the right thing to do, so I would sit in prison for the rest of my life if I had to. But most courts wouldn't give me too harsh of a penalty unless you get a real liberal judge.

Listen, I'm speaking from personal experience. My cousin who I'm very close to was molested by my uncle, me and along with a few of my family members said that if we ever see him again, he's dead. Last I heard, he's living up in Alaska. We all live in Texas, he moved across the whole country, because he knows we would kill him.

[edit on 17-10-2008 by Slazer]

That may be so and it important for people to take responsibility for their actions without discounting consequences. With your personal experience, I'm sure your family would have a lot of negativity towards your uncle and yet, while he's in Alaska, he is probably aware of his actions of the past. Maybe the law enforcers already caught him in the act by now. Who knows?

At least, he's far away from your family. He has to live with the consequences. It's very easy to fall into the quick fix of revenge but on the other hand, can one handle the experience of killing another in vengeance on their own conscience? Is it any easier or different than putting your own pet down by euthanasia?

I'm not saying I condone people like your uncle who resorted to this kind of behavior. Can humanity go any lower than the lowest in order to exact vengeance?

It's very easy to call for blood but trying to live past it is the hardest thing to do. I know about this because I've seen the darkness within and outside of me.

EDIT: Carrot, your reply is coming up sooner or later tonight.

[edit on 17-10-2008 by Sanctum1972]

reply to post by CA_Orot

Carrot,

First off, it's not my intention to make you look like a jerk because I've had experience with people trying to get clever with me. Let me put it this way. I'm deaf and read lips, allowing me to read body language and detect any kind of BS coming out of the person's mouth or attitude. I have dealt with a lot of people in my life that tend to play head games and have learned not to fall for this trap.

However, since you are attempting to offer some perspective on your part. I'll answer your questions. I don't have the experience of dealing with criminals in court nor have I ever testified. But I have seen and heard stories of criminals, back in the big city I used to live in the midwest, that get lenient sentences for petty crimes. The more violent ones were dealt with severely and I'm talking about gang-related violence here.

We don't get a lot of pedophiliac crimes back in the big city and they usually occur in the rural areas outside of the city. Or near it. However, in my current state of residence, it's easy to hide in the mountains and commit crimes. After all, there are some sick hillbillies abound that I find ignorant and some have been convicted of sex crimes on the news. I don't know these people personally and have no reason to seek revenge on them because they have no bearing on me nor on my life, and because I don't have kids of my own. Do I agree with what they did? Of course not.

The self-restraint on my part has to do with dealing with my own darkness. Hatred eats you up. Look at the fictional concept of hatred of Anakin Skywalker in Star Wars and look what happened to him. I probably would have been disappointed if the Justice system did'nt work out, although I'm sure the only way evidence would not have been brought forth is only due to corruption or if the pedophile has friends in 'higher places'. That's the only way they can get away with it.

If I have a child, I will teach him/her restraint, get some counseling and support, and learn to move on. It's the best way to reduce any future psychological hang ups in their adult-hood and if my child sought revenge to kill, I would be more than disappointed.

I was fortunate to have some martial arts background to learn to control myself and suppress anger from 20 years ago (yes, I'm in my mid-30s. So, there you go).

As for pedophile priests, I'm not a religious person and am not a fan of it, but can say that those who infiltrate it just for their pedophiliac activities, they deserve to serve their time or pay restitution when they are caught in their old age (if the crime is committed 20-30 years ago, ie). Putting them to death is the stupidest thing to do because the victim is still alive and in adulthood, for example, and suing for monetary/emotional damage. If the priests are elderly and if there's enough evidence, they can be convicted.

BUT, there are other manipulative victims who cry wolf, similar to the Salem Witch Trials and get innocent people in jail without presenting physical evidence.

As for your 45 year old mother, my biological father is 52 by now. I was born because of his raging teenage hormones along with my biological mother who's 51. They did it when they were underage. They're not married to each other, though as I was given up. It's a long story but I don't blame them doing it in their teens as I'm here for a reason. Does it affect my views on sex and relationships? Sometimes it does as my views change over time. It's like a vicious cycle.

If I continue to go the route of vengeance, then I cannot continue life as a professional graphic designer/artist.

reply to post by Heike


umm you cant be convicted of being attracted to young children... unless you act on it...
so ummm yeah, im sure he was a child molester...

the real crime here is that he made it to 73. no telling how many lives he ruined.

honestly i think the human race would do well without this sort of thing polluting the gene pool. unfortunately there is no ethical way of separating the wheat from the chaff.

capitol punishment should be extended to include aggravated sex crimes, with the same requisite of proof beyond the shadow of doubt.

so until that time comes perhaps it would be best to spare the world that much more misery by lining them up against a wall.