C-130 video confirms 84th RADES Data

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by Reheat
Bwhahahaha. You need to post that in the Humor section.

You need to post your claims in the fantasy section.

Specailly since you cannot come up with any evidence to support your claims.

Are you back Reheat?
It seemed you had headed for the hills with tail between legs.

On a related issue:

NORAD Tapes

09:35:41
ROUNTREE: Huntress [call sign for neads] ID, Rountree, can I help you?
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): Latest report, [low-flying] aircraft six miles southeast of the White House.
ROUNTREE: Six miles southeast of the White House?
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): Yup. East—he's moving away?
ROUNTREE: Southeast from the White House.
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): Air—aircraft is moving away.
ROUNTREE: Moving away from the White House?
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): Yeah.…
www.vanityfair.com...

The NORAD tapes place the decoy jet 6 miles southeast of Washington DC near Andrews AFB at 09:35:41 just after the C-130 took off, and surely were keeping track of the reports of missing and hijacked aircraft, and crashes into buildings, and Andrews ATC surely knew they had an unidentified aircraft off transponder overhead which had just violated P-56 air space and was STILL a threat, and should have been scrambling fighters instead of C-130s.

C-130 RADES Data flight path 15 miles to the southwest apparently headed for Arkansas
instead of Minnesota (shown with blue stick pins)


Now the red airplane on the Chaconas map is located about 6 miles southeast of the White House, and the decoy aircraft that NORAD had picked up on radars was about there at that same spot at 9:35:41 according to NORAD. That leaves 1 minute and 19 seconds to reach the Pentagon at the official time of 9:37. Of course that official time was revised downward repeatedly to fit their BS and was originally 9:43.

But anyway, according to the faked RADES, the C-130 was crossing the Potomac at 9:35:25. From that red aircraft along the Chaconas flight path to the Pentagon looks to be about 9 miles. Assuming an average speed of 420 mph to reach the Pentagon at 9:37, (9 miles/00:01:19(7 mpm)) the decoy aircraft should have reached the Potomac at 9:36:02. (21 secs flying time)

That would have placed the C-130 just 37 seconds ahead of the decoy aircraft, flying across the exact same spot over the Potomac. How come Steve Chaconas did not see both aircraft? The C-130 silhoutte would be unmistakable and he was certain he saw a commercial aircraft. Besides he did not see it fly off out of sight to the southwest did he? No, he watched it circle around Reagan National and disappear behind the hills and the tall buildings of Crystal City just seconds before a column of smoke could be seen rising high in the air.

Steve Chaconas interview at 00:17:30

Google Video Link

According to the faked RADES, the C-130 took about 3 minutes to fly the 15 mile leg to the southwest. That works out to about 300 mph. Also according to the faked RADES, the C-130 was still facing southwest at 9:37 the alleged impact time and O'Brien was sitting in the port pilot's seat, so how could O'Brien have seen the alleged impact?

Approximate flight path of Steve Chaconas witnessed commercial aircraft




[edit on 8/23/08 by SPreston]

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Did you get that Reheat?
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Isn't it awful when your lies start catching up to you?

According to the faked RADES, the C-130 took about 3 minutes to fly the 15 mile leg to the southwest. That works out to about 300 mph. Also according to the faked RADES, the C-130 was still facing southwest at 9:37 the alleged impact time and O'Brien was sitting in the port pilot's seat, so how could O'Brien have seen the alleged impact?

Therefore, according to the faked 84th RADES data, it would have taken the C-130 another 36 or even 48 seconds flying time after the alleged impact time of 9:37 before it was in a position for O'Brien to see the smoke rising through his forward cockpit window. Correct?

C-130 RADES Data flight path 15 miles to the southwest apparently headed for Arkansas
instead of Minnesota (shown with blue stick pins)


[edit on 8/23/08 by SPreston]

Originally posted by SPreston

NORAD Tapes

09:35:41
ROUNTREE: Huntress [call sign for neads] ID, Rountree, can I help you?
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): Latest report, [low-flying] aircraft six miles southeast of the White House.
ROUNTREE: Six miles southeast of the White House?
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): Yup. East—he's moving away?
ROUNTREE: Southeast from the White House.
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): Air—aircraft is moving away.
ROUNTREE: Moving away from the White House?
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): Yeah.…
www.vanityfair.com...

But, you don't bother to mention that Scoggins corrected himself and said Southwest within seconds after this transcript ends. He was not actually watching AA77 on Radar, but was relaying information from Washington Center to NEADS. Are we going to use this same tactic when we talk about what Roosevelt Roberts said?

If what you say is true, why does Colin Scoggins not support your delusional BS? Is he "in on it" too?

Originally posted by SPrestonThe NORAD tapes place the decoy jet 6 miles southeast of Washington DC near Andrews AFB at 09:35:41 just after the C-130 took off,

Unfortunately, for you audio TAPES don't place an aircraft at all. When someone misspeaks as Scoggins obviously did, because he corrected himself, honest people usually recognize that, but there you go.....

Originally posted by SPreston
and surely were keeping track of the reports of missing and hijacked aircraft, and crashes into buildings, and Andrews ATC surely knew they had an unidentified aircraft off transponder overhead which had just violated P-56 air space and was STILL a threat, and should have been scrambling fighters instead of C-130s.

Your ignorant comments about your fictitious "decoy aircraft" violating P-56 is made up male bovine manure, because you have NO EVIDENCE that any aircraft violated that airspace. NONE - more made up crap. Andrews ATC does not control P-56 and they do not launch fighters. You know very well that Andrews did not have fighters on alert. They were not even a part of NORAD on 9/11, but you pretend they did so you can lie about it. The C-130 was not scrambled, it was on a routine mission returning to it's home base in Minnesota, but you'll pretend it was in order to deceive.

Originally posted by SPreston
C-130 RADES Data flight path 15 miles to the southwest apparently headed for Arkansas instead of Minnesota (shown with blue stick pins)

The C-130 was heading 270 degrees MAGNETIC=WEST. ATC and Pilots speak and fly MAGNETIC headings. 270 degrees MAGNETIC heading is WEST and is printed on the Departure Plate for the Camp Springs Departure that the C-130 obviously flew.

Originally posted by SPreston
That would have placed the C-130 just 37 seconds ahead of the decoy aircraft, flying across the exact same spot over the Potomac. How come Steve Chaconas did not see both aircraft?

The best explanation is that there was only one aircraft....the C-130.

Originally posted by SPreston
Also according to the faked RADES, the C-130 was still facing southwest at 9:37 the alleged impact time and O'Brien was sitting in the port pilot's seat, so how could O'Brien have seen the alleged impact?

This is hilarious. Since when can radar determine which way an aircraft is "facing"? In addition, you are ignorant of aerodynamics because shortly after this WE HAVE VIDEO AND PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE OF THE C-130 HEADED ~350 degrees just to the WEST of the pentagon. Now, according to your made up crap, how is that possible? Psssst - it isn't possible!

YOU HAVE BEEN CAUGHT IN YOUR DELUSION MAKING UP S***

Turn out the lights when you leave......

[edit on 23-8-2008 by Reheat]

[edit on 23-8-2008 by Reheat]

[edit on 23-8-2008 by Reheat]

reply to post by beachnut

beachnut
The yellow line SPreston says is 270 degre ....

Never mind .... just gibberish



There is just no way Andrews ATC would have sent the C-130 southwest across the Reagan National approach pattern, especially with a national ground stop in effect. With an unknown aircraft illegally violating P-56 restricted airspace over the White House, they should have held the C-130 on the ground. But they did not, and since the C-130 was headed to Minnesota, they sent him north from Morning Side One Departure.

"Well here's a chart of the Washington DC area...

That's Andrews Air Force Base right here...

We departed out of Andrews, climbed to 3000 ft which took us by the south side of the mall."

Narrator: Lt. Col. O'Brien was on a routine flight, but as he flew over Central Washington traffic control reported an unidentified jet fast approaching on his left hand side.

And again, the narrator said as "Flight AA77 descended in a wide turn over the Capitol and lined up with it's target there was a military C-130...flying above Washington DC

Clearly the BBC interviewed him and understood what he had explained to them, because they mention central DC several times.

Likely they intended to send the C-130 north and east of the P-56 restricted area until they were clear, but instead they decided to send the C-130 west below the Washington Mall to investigate the unknown aircraft headed for the White House.

Reagan ATC would never allow a C-130 which should be on the ground to violate
and cross their approach pattern during an emergency groundstop


P56 DOES ALLOW flight paths on the south side of the mall




[edit on 8/23/08 by SPreston]

C-130 RADES Data flight path 15 miles to the southwest apparently headed for Arkansas
instead of Minnesota (shown with blue stick pins)

Originally posted by SPreston
Also according to the faked RADES, the C-130 was still facing southwest at 9:37 the alleged impact time and O'Brien was sitting in the port pilot's seat, so how could O'Brien have seen the alleged impact?

More comedy posted by Reheat
This is hilarious. Since when can radar determine which way an aircraft is "facing"?

Bwahahahahahahahahaha. That is the stupidist comment I ever read. At 9:37 on the blue stickpins representing the C-130, the alleged aircraft trajectory is southwest. Unless Lt Colonel Steve O'Brien figured out how to fly a C-130 sideways at 300 mph, then HIS COCKPIT WAS FACING SOUTHWEST OR WEST AWAY FROM THE PENTAGON.

Every real pilot reading your nonsense just fell out of his chair laughing. Time for you to return to Microsoft Flight Simulator 9 for some more training; or have you graduated to Cessna 167 101?

Originally posted by SPreston
reply to post by beachnut

 

beachnut
The yellow line SPreston says is 270 degre ....

Never mind .... just gibberish

Not it's not gibberish. The yellow line you display is NOT 270 Magnetic, it is 280 Magnetic.

Originally posted by SPreston
There is just no way Andrews ATC would have sent the C-130 southwest across the Reagan National approach pattern, especially with a national ground stop in effect.

Here's the NOTAM activating the Ground Stop. Note the time.



The C-130 was first picked up on radar at 9:33. It is quite obvious that the NOTAM was received AFTER the loaded C-130 departed Andrews. The Ground Stop initially did not apply to military aircraft anyway.

You obviously don't understand that aircraft operate in a 3 Dimensional realm, not 2 Dimensional as you sit on the throne producing the stuff you write. If you will look at the Departure Plate for the Camp Springs Departure (post above) you will see 3000' is a hard mandatory altitude at 8 nm west of Andrews. That is so that Reagan National can route the inbound traffic from the South UNDERNEATH 3000'. Arriving aircraft to an airport DO NOT Split-S to an approach. They also don't fly overhead and do a vertical dive bomb pattern to landing. Passengers don't like that. Arriving aircraft to DCA would be below an aircraft on the Camp Springs Departure from Andrews.

Originally posted by SPreston
With an unknown aircraft illegally violating P-56 restricted airspace over the White House,.

As I pointed out above you have no knowledge or proof that any aircraft violated P-56. This is simply bloated hot air...

Originally posted by SPreston
Clearly the BBC interviewed him and understood what he had explained to them, because they mention central DC several times.

Your use of a British Documentary for proving what they mean by Central DC is rejected. I would also reject an American Documentary which stated that the London Heathrow Airport is in London. It's not, it's in Hayes, Middlesex.

Originally posted by SPreston
Likely they intended to send the C-130 north and east of the P-56 restricted area until they were clear, but instead they decided to send the C-130 west below the Washington Mall to investigate the unknown aircraft headed for the White House.

You have been caught again. According to your own time line and the link below no one knew about AA77 when the C-130 departed Andrews.

www.historycommons.org...

Originally posted by SPreston
Reagan ATC would never allow a C-130 which should be on the ground to violate and cross their approach pattern during an emergency groundstop.

Made up crap as proven above.

Originally posted by SPreston
P56 DOES ALLOW flight paths on the south side of the mall

Now, how do you know? What does your stupid photo with YOUR line on it prove? Nothing!

Your not very good at this are you?

C-130 RADES Data flight path 15 miles to the southwest apparently headed for Arkansas
instead of Minnesota (shown with blue stick pins)


Another huge discrepancy in the faked 84th RADES data, which I have just noticed. I want you Reheat and beachnut to have the pleasure to see it first, so you can get your denial act fully in gear. Go for the gold guys.

At the 9:38 blue stickpin (C-130) which is next to the 9:36:48 red stickpin, (Flt 77) the alleged 757 has 12 seconds to reach the Pentagon wall at the official 9:37 time. By measuring, I have determined the distance from that position to the Pentagon to be 5+ miles. Dividing 5 miles by 12 seconds gives a result of .417 miles per second. Multiplying .417 by 60 gives a result of 25.02 miles per minute. Multiplying 25.02 by 60 gives a result of 1501.2 mph. That is one fast little 757.

Did you do that Reheat?

1501.2 mph for an ordinary 757 without rocket assists?

Is that your Amazing Randi Forum Of Illusionists mathematics in action?

Do you guys need more proof that the RADES was faked?

On another note, checking the C-130 speed from the same spot at 9:38, the C-130 arrives next to the Pentagon at 9:39:35. Dividing 5 miles by 95 seconds gives a result of .05 mps. Multiplying .05 by 60 gives a result of 3 mpm. Multiplying by 60 gives a result of 180 mph for the C-130. Hmmmm. Seems kinda slow. But I guess it can fly that slow.

reply to post by SPreston


Well, according to you, you know everything. Why don't you know?

Is it because you only know troofer math?

BTW, that chart comes from Lyte Bulb's Photobucket account, so why don't you ask him?

I'll wait a few days or weeks and let you post this in all of the Forums you frequent, let you crow about how this proves the RADES Data fake and then I'll choose the time and place to tell you why you can't figure it out.

Bwhahahahahahahahaha!

Originally posted by Reheat
I'll wait a few days or weeks and let you post this in all of the Forums you frequent,

Are you ever going to post any actual evidence or offiicial reports that support your fantasies?

reply to post by SPreston

You made up your entire post, not one thing based on evidence, just hearsay and fantasy. There were no planes in restricted airspace.

Bad news, the Morningside One Departure would have the C-130 3 to 5 miles north of the SPreston Fantasy Yellow path(can't put a C-130 into the departure airspace of KDCA). Minnesota is not north of DC; wrong departure! Plus you have failed to present any evidence why the RADES data, which matches the C-130 pilots testimony exactly, and the Camps Spring One Departure, is fake. You made up that story, and it is a lie.

BTW, the Camps Spring One Departure is exactly 3000 feet and south of the Mall, pilots can see the mall from many miles away, it is beautiful. We have great eyes.
Funny stuff you put the C-130 next to restricted! Failure one. You put the C-130 on the departure routing from KDCA, entirely a giant failure and a hazard to safety! Never can do that, you failed on two counts. The C-130 has to fly the departure they were given. It ensures safety with altitude, your idea puts the C-130 right in the way of departing traffic, a big error.

Do you think my 35 years of flying may help to show you are making up stuff. You produce fantasy based on zero evidence. The fact is the C-130 had to be at 3000 so it could cross above the arrival paths to KDCA. I was trained in TERPS and developed arrival and departure procedures for my KC-135 crews in Desert Storm. Your lack of knowledge on flying is showing. Please pay attention so you can learn. I am a real expert, not perfect, but the real deal. See the C-130 took off on runway 1L (that is heading north for you non pilots, at 10 degrees), he turned to heading 170 degrees it was his clearance to follow the Camps Spring One Departure, and then he gets radar vectors to J518.

For all those who want to know, the C-130 has to go west past the arrival path for KDCA above 3000 feet so arrivals can have 2000 feet. It is simple to check by looking up the arrivals and departures in the area.

Aircraft approaching KDCA are below 1600 feet and if they mess up they are directed to go to 500 feet and a left turn on the DCA R-325 to 2000 feet, this gives the needed separation from the C-130 and other traffic on the real departure used by the C-130. So you are wrong about they would send the C-130 on the required departure which is south of the Mall, and matches the RADES data you can never prove is fake! Never! Why is that? Why do you lack real evidence and knowledge of flying procedures?

No, they did not send the C-130 west to see what 77 was doing, they sent the C-130 on the Departure I showed.

The fact is the C-130 took off flying the Camps Spring One Departure and then radar vectors to BUFFR and J518 (about 303 degrees magnetic) DJB (Dryer) J34 (jet route about 311, 300, and 284 degrees) BAE (Badger) EAU5 Arrivial to MSP (Minneapolis-St Paul International). These are the facts, not made up fantasy, and saying the military and FAA faked the RADES data! How can you just make up a lie the RADES data is fake when you have been shown it is true based on video, other evidence, testimony, and more.


[edit on 23-8-2008 by beachnut]

[edit on 23-8-2008 by beachnut]

Originally posted by SPreston
Also according to the faked RADES, the C-130 was still facing southwest at 9:37 the alleged impact time and O'Brien was sitting in the port pilot's seat, so how could O'Brien have seen the alleged impact?

The C-130 was heading NE toward the Pentagon at the impact time.

O'Brien did not state that he witnessed the impact, you're fabricating something he never stated.

[edit on 24-8-2008 by Reheat]

Originally posted by Reheat
O'Brien did not state that he witnessed the impact, you're fabricating something he never stated.

Gee, its really fun and easy to prove you wrong.

en.wikipedia.org...

The pilot, Lt. Col. Steven O'Brien, told them it was a Boeing 757 or 767, and its silver fuselage meant it was probably an American Airlines jet. He had difficulty picking out the plane in the "East Coast haze", but then saw a "huge" fireball, and initially assumed it had hit the ground. Approaching the Pentagon, he saw the west side and reported to Reagan control, "Looks like that aircraft crashed into the Pentagon sir".

beachnut
BTW, the Camps Spring One Departure is exactly 3000 feet and south of the Mall, pilots can see the mall from many miles away, it is beautiful. We have great eyes.

Why must you lie?

Camp Springs on a map is southeast of the National Mall and 6 miles away.
Not 3000 feet.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by Reheat
O'Brien did not state that he witnessed the impact, you're fabricating something he never stated.

Gee, its really fun and easy to prove you wrong.

en.wikipedia.org...

The pilot, Lt. Col. Steven O'Brien, told them it was a Boeing 757 or 767, and its silver fuselage meant it was probably an American Airlines jet. He had difficulty picking out the plane in the "East Coast haze", but then saw a "huge" fireball, and initially assumed it had hit the ground. Approaching the Pentagon, he saw the west side and reported to Reagan control, "Looks like that aircraft crashed into the Pentagon sir".

You do understand you proved Reheat right?

He saw the fireball, not the impact, it was behind the Pentagon, he was going towards the Pentagon as shown on the RADES data, now your post support his seeing a fireball, not the impact confirming the RADES data. Cool

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Gee, its really fun and easy to prove you wrong.

en.wikipedia.org...

The pilot, Lt. Col. Steven O'Brien, told them it was a Boeing 757 or 767, and its silver fuselage meant it was probably an American Airlines jet. He had difficulty picking out the plane in the "East Coast haze", but then saw a "huge" fireball, and initially assumed it had hit the ground. Approaching the Pentagon, he saw the west side and reported to Reagan control, "Looks like that aircraft crashed into the Pentagon sir".

His statement did not say he witnessed the impact. He said "it looks like that aircraft crashed into the pentagon". Unless they were having a pyrotechnics display, or a monster truck rally or something at the Pentagon, I think it is easy to see how and why he stated what he did.

“When we took off [About 9:30 a.m.], we headed north and west … I noticed this airplane up and to the left of us, at 10 o’clock. He was descending to our altitude, four miles away or so. That’s awful close, so I was surprised he wasn’t calling out to us. … O’Brien reported that the plane was either a 757 or 767 and its silver fuselage meant it was probably an American Airlines jet. “They told us to turn and follow that aircraft … “The next thing I saw was the fireball. It was huge… Suddenly, I could see the outline of the Pentagon. It was horrible. I told Washington this thing has impacted the west side of the Pentagon. …I took the plane once through the plume of smoke and thought if this was a terrorist attack, it probably wasn’t a good idea to be flying through that plume. He flew west, not exactly sure where he was supposed to land.

[edit on 23-8-2008 by gavron]

Originally posted by SPreston

beachnut
BTW, the Camps Spring One Departure is exactly 3000 feet and south of the Mall, pilots can see the mall from many miles away, it is beautiful. We have great eyes.

Why must you lie?

Camp Springs on a map is southeast of the National Mall and 6 miles away.
Not 3000 feet.

3000 feet altitude. And yes, you can see the Mall from 6 miles away, it is 2 MILES LONG@! The Mall is BIG! Pilots can see it from far away! The departure places the C-130 south of the Mall, your departure places the C-130 3 to 5 miles north of the path you made up.

Originally posted by Reheat

Originally posted by SPreston
Also according to the faked RADES, the C-130 was still facing southwest at 9:37 the alleged impact time and O'Brien was sitting in the port pilot's seat, so how could O'Brien have seen the alleged impact?

The C-130 was heading NW toward the Pentagon at the impact time.

O'Brien did not state that he witnessed the impact, you're fabricating something he never stated.

Northwest? Sure he was?

How could O'Brien be flying Northwest towards the Pentagon when your faked RADES had him flying 15 miles southwest, past the Pentagon, and leaving him southwest of the Pentagon?

No wonder you don't have a clue.

C-130 flight path (Yellow line) - Faked RADES C-130 flight path (blue) - Faked Flight 77 (red)
Decoy aircraft spotted by O'Brien to the west after C-130 passed the Mall

Originally posted by beachnut
You do understand you proved Reheat right?

No, Reheat made the statement that the pilot saw nothing.

I proved him wrong.



[edit on 23-8-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by beachnut
You do understand you proved Reheat right?

No, Reheat made the statement that the pilot saw nothing.

I proved him wrong.



[edit on 23-8-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Reheat said the C-130 pilot did not see the impact, your post confirms that.

Originally posted by Reheat
The C-130 was heading NW toward the Pentagon at the impact time. You should use your NSA expertise next time.
O'Brien did not state that he witnessed the impact, you're fabricating something he never stated.

Reheat says O'Brien did not witness the impact.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by Reheat
O'Brien did not state that he witnessed the impact, you're fabricating something he never stated.

Gee, its really fun and easy to prove you wrong.

en.wikipedia.org...

The pilot, Lt. Col. Steven O'Brien, told them it was a Boeing 757 or 767, and its silver fuselage meant it was probably an American Airlines jet. He had difficulty picking out the plane in the "East Coast haze", but then saw a "huge" fireball, and initially assumed it had hit the ground. Approaching the Pentagon, he saw the west side and reported to Reagan control, "Looks like that aircraft crashed into the Pentagon sir".

You proved Reheat was correct.