We helped in Iraq - now help us, beg Georgians

More American chest beating about helping those "poor Georgians".. Honestly, read up on the region and it's history, especially the past 20 or so years.

South Ossetia is as much a nation as Kosovo, see how that has come back to bite? The West cannot do anything as the Russians are merely doing what we have already done ourselves To intervene would be hypocritical and undermine our own integrity enormously.

Besides, the Georgians started this war and seem to have expected western help without even asking first. Now they have to pay the price of attacking the Bear.

Serves 'em right, if you ask me.

Let them bitch about it, but the bottom line is "don't start what you're not prepared to finish" and they knew the Russians would respond, especially given the loss of Russian lives in the original Georgian assault.

Originally posted by Gun Slinger
I do believe though, that the US could successfully deploy aircraft to the region thus denying the Russians air superiority. But then nukes might fly. There is just to many ifs and buts. Its to dangerous.

[edit on 10-8-2008 by Gun Slinger]

Well.. interestingly.. from what I've read of the types Russian units in the area..
its pretty much their sky.. with or w/o NATO/US deployments..
And no one's prying that out of Russian hands unless they're willing to make haeavy high value sacrifices..

Hmmm will Russia disagree to the ceasfire now that America is helping lift the 2,000 georgian troops from Iraq? thats directly supporting them..especially if they are going straight from iraq to the frontlines...Will Russia be happy with this?

What do the Georgians wants?
Do we have any idea about the needs of the Georgians people, after all the majority of the people there have more relative in Russia (parents, cousins..) then in any so called allies country. And what about Georgians presidents, very funny background if you dear to search his ascensions to power. According to a source in Sochi (if someone knows people there maybe they can confirm or not) many Georgian people had emigrated there because of poor economic in Georgia.
This is a not at all clear situation.


Kacou.

I read a novel Sonya. And for the life of me I can't remember which. But I remember Alaskan women shoving shivs under the cuticles of their combatants. And numerous other things. Funny how people can be so creative in others agony. And I am uniquely intrigued by your interest of abuse.
Call of the wild it was.

[edit on 8/11/2008 by jpm1602]

[edit on 8/11/2008 by jpm1602]

Georgia overplayed their hand, it's as simple as that. And you wonder why their application to NATO was rejected? They simply wanted NATO backing so they could go head to head with Russia and drag the west into 'their' fight. So, the whole world would have to suffer so they could settle their old grievances with their old enemy Russia. Georgia is too unstable and far too unpredictable a nation to ever allow entry into the EU proper. Sorry, have to say this, but Georgia brought this on themselves by engaging with a much bigger nation. It's a bit of a playground statergy, the weak kid making friends with one of the bullies (by giving him his lunch money) and then hoping he'd beat up another bully. Yes, the US are bullies, but they're much smarter than Georgia gives them credit for. At least, I hope they're too clever to get dragged into a conflict which no-one would ever win.

So what do Georgians expect? Perhaps some backup for our tricked out missile shield I would suppose.

The iron maiden thing just really creeped me out. My Mum used to have a prayer she remembered that equally creeped her out. It was from slovakia, and it was prayer for a quick death.

Originally posted by pieman
i think they have a moral obligation to fight for georgia. allies are allies, if you accept the offer of allegiance from a country you have to be willing to support them.

all those loyal and patriotic americans screaming support our troops for the past five years have a moral obligation to demand it of the US government, because at the end of the day, georgian mothers lost sons supporting the same troops in a war they have no part in.

a debt is owed.

so you would support a war between the US and RUssia?

Im not sure how you make the connection between AMericans giving support to their troops with supporting joining a conflict with Russia because the US happens to be quite friendly with Georgia. The Georgians should have thought a bit more about the situation before attacking the region and killing civilians


[edit on 11-8-2008 by blueorder]

[edit on 11-8-2008 by blueorder]

Originally posted by Sonya610

I believe Turkey allowed us to use their air bases when we desperately needed them to "liberate" Iraq. So we owed Turkey too.

They did not.

Not at ANY level...

We couldnt go thru Turkey for Ground troops
We couldnt use thier Airbases to refuel, or run missions...
Turkey SHUT us out... and because of that, the US turned to the Kurds...


Turkey did not let the US use ANYTHING...

Originally posted by Sonya610

I believe Turkey allowed us to use their air bases when we desperately needed them to "liberate" Iraq. So we owed Turkey too.

They did not.

Not at ANY level...

We couldnt go thru Turkey for Ground troops
We couldnt use thier Airbases to refuel, or run missions...
Turkey SHUT us out... and because of that, the US turned to the Kurds...


Turkey did not let the US use ANYTHING...

That is why Bushes kiwis are turning blue now blue. Rock and a hard place.

reply to post by blueorder


no, i would support america assisting georgia with securing her borders and sovereignty.

the connection is, the georgians supported the us in the iraqi conflict, their troops worked with american troops in that conflict, they died together fighting for a cause america championed.

georgians now need american help, they should get it. the russian invasion of georgian sovereign territory is an aggressive act against an ally. if this is ignored it is morally reprehensible.


[edit on 11-8-2008 by pieman]

I'm glad someone around here know how to spell sovereingty....still screwed it. We are sitting on a powder keg.

reply to post by pieman


Under international law, the residents of SO have the right to self-determination. They have held a referendum, elected their own Government and have declared themselves to be independent. Georgia has no right to stop them, even less of a right to use tanks and artillery to shell their capital and ethnically cleanse the people there.

For Christ's sake, how can in one breath the US defend Kosovo and support their breakaway and recognise them as a country, but in the other damn the Russians and South Ossetians for doing them same?

Originally posted by pieman
no, i would support america assisting georgia with securing her borders and sovereignty.

Im not sure it as clear cut as that, ossetia has been at best a nominal part of Georgia- if the US support Kosovo being separate, why not South Ossetia

the connection is, the georgians supported the us in the iraqi conflict, their troops worked with american troops in that conflict, they died together fighting for a cause america championed.

yes, but Georgia largely brought this on themselves, bloody stupid attacking Ossetia and killing all those civilians

georgians now need american help, they should get it. the russian invasion of georgian sovereign territory is an aggressive act against an ally. if this is ignored it is morally reprehensible.
[edit on 11-8-2008 by pieman]

the situation is rather more complex than that, I dont think the Georgians have acted in a sensible manner.

"allies" only works so far, Britain is the US ally but in reality we dont really get any benefit out it- to expect a heavily armed superpower to go to war with the next biggest armed power over a cruddy piece of land which Georgia itself had attacked is stretching things somewhat

Originally posted by jpm1602
That is why Bushes kiwis are turning blue now blue. Rock and a hard place.

Bush and crew are not going to do anything other than "condemn" it.

The top players are greedy little m@#$@ @#$$ and they aren't going to get into a conflict with Russia over some poor people in some country we don't care about.

And I agree about the Iran thing, it would not serve the administration to cause a big issue over this and then have it thrown back in their face if/when we go after Iran. Russia stayed out of Iraq and has stayed relatively quiet on Iran so far, other than selling them weapons.

reply to post by blueorder


in the falklands war the usa went so far as to assist ther argentinian `ally` - also the offer after weeks of an ancient aircraft carrier was a pure white elephant

Originally posted by Harlequin

in the falklands war the usa went so far as to assist ther argentinian `ally` - also the offer after weeks of an ancient aircraft carrier was a pure white elephant

Not sure what to make of your comment, the US did not go to war with Britain over the falklands

reply to post by blueorder


both argentina and the uk are allies of the usa - i was merely embelishing what you said