We helped in Iraq - now help us, beg Georgians

Oh dear. Looks like the Georgians didn't realize "Your with us or against us" wasn't a two way street.

Perhaps they should have thought about the fact that the US has it's hands tied in other parts of the world before they began shelling Tshinvale.

Luckily the Russians are also heralding the call for talks regarding a cease fire. Imagine if Russia actually wanted to completely crush Georgia for shelling Tshinvale, god help them.

Things are starting to sound like they're calming down now. More talks of trying the cease fire again (this time with forewarning).

reply to post by TKainZero


The Georgian politicians are knuckleheads. No one told them to follow the Bush regime into Iraq, unless the Neocons were waving a carrot in front of them. Regardless, they have chosen their battle with the Russians, now let them solve their own mess.


[edit on 11-8-2008 by Gateway]

Here is a theory...

US tells Russia you can have Georgia if we can have Iran. Russia says Ok. Russia provokes an attack by Georiga. Russia moves in for the kill. They now control oil flow to the west. US sends in Aircraft carriers to take out Iran. We control oil flow out of the middle east.

All the while Cheny, Bush and Putin are all winking at each other while the rest of the world walks on egg shells...

This is not a third world war. It politics at its ugliest...

Originally posted by TKainZero
I am honestly Ashamed...

The US is damaging thier Reputation...

How can the US expect ANYONE to support them, if we won't defend one of our most commitied allies...



No one wants WWIII...

But you know that old song...

"You cant always get what you want...."

There isnt much we can do short of starting war with Russia. this is a touchy subject, one that is very difficult to fully understand.

I in all honesty think that the US could go in, take care of business, deny Russia completely, its ability to continue hurting Georgians, but that would quickly escalate into thermo nuclear warfare, meaning Armageddon. I just dont think theres much we can do short of starting WW3 (Thought Id throw that in there since it seems to be so cliche on this board)

reply to post by Perplexed


That kind of underhanded crap goes on all the time and I'm surprised nobody has suggested that yet. Iran's is definitely coming; whether from the US or Israel.

A big RED STAR for you Comrade!

Ok, so here is how we need to play it.

Immediately station American troops in Georgia but stay far away from Ossetia. Notify Russia of the presence of our troops and their role as peacekeepers. Make it clear that any attack on areas outside of Ossetia where US forces are stationed will be considered an act of war against the US.

In exchange for this, Georgia must understand that it lost Ossetia. It must also agree not to hold talks with Russia without US moderation, giving us face for solving the problem and making Russia look bad. Russia will have to agree to the talks or risk having a permanent US presence in Georgia on a DMZ.

Originally posted by Perplexed
Here is a theory...

US tells Russia you can have Georgia if we can have Iran. Russia says Ok. Russia provokes an attack by Georiga. Russia moves in for the kill. They now control oil flow to the west. US sends in Aircraft carriers to take out Iran. We control oil flow out of the middle east.

All the while Cheny, Bush and Putin are all winking at each other while the rest of the world walks on egg shells...

This is not a third world war. It politics at its ugliest...

You have the premise correct even if the specifics of your post are inaccurate. You are close to seeing it as it is though. Take your focus off of Iran and broaden it. Also, don't think in purely war context with regard to Iran. In such a case, we wouldn't need Russian approval. Just for them to not interfere with efforts to prevent it. Russia would actually benefit to an extent if the US and Iran went to war.

At the end of the day, all that Russia did was come to it's allies' aid. In fact they're more than allies, they're Russian citizens that were getting killed in South Ossetia, so Russia has every right to take action.

You can't blame Russia for that and start calling for attacks on it. If the USA went to the aid of it's citizens under attack, you wouldn't blame them would you?

Georgia were the original aggressors here anyway, maybe they should have asked for NATO backup before destroying half of South Ossetia and killing a load of Russian citizens.

Bottom line is we don't know exactly what happened, it's all hersy. Georgia has no choice but to give up SO, they should pull back ..then have the UN come in a sort out the problem, and send in UN peacekeepers to station there, so Russia doesn't take over Georgia entirely and secure the oil pipeline.

I doubt Russia would go past SO. Let them have it and deal with the problems there.

Georgia starts a war

the `other side` get some real help

georgia crys foul after they get there asses handed to them and get caught trying to kill everyone in the country *genocide*

remember the georgians went in very VERY hard and flattened a city in the first day and killed 2000+ people , like you and me , sitting at computers ,reading books , playing with there children.

there are already western mercenaries fighting for georgia


and you want the US to get involved in this crap?

for those who are *crying over allies* go to a revruiter NOW and sign up.

or shut up and stop pretending to be a patriot and wanting yet znother war.

Originally posted by malganis
At the end of the day, all that Russia did was come to it's allies' aid.

So Russia allied itself with a rebel group of Georgians and this is justification for crossing the borders of another nation? You do realize that South Ossetia is NOT a nation but part of Georgia, right?

In fact they're more than allies, they're Russian citizens that were getting killed in South Ossetia, so Russia has every right to take action.

Wrong. Lay off the Russian kool-aid.

Russia granted citizenship to South Ossetian Georgians for years just to try and assimilate South Ossetia.

If the United States grants citizenship to British Columbians does that give us any right to enter British Columbia militarily?

No, no it doesn’t.

Georgia were the original aggressors here anyway, maybe they should have asked for NATO backup before destroying half of South Ossetia and killing a load of Russian citizens.

Gimme a break! Maybe Russia shouldn’t grant citizenship to Georgians in order to steal land and provoke wars!

Those Russian citizens you speak were Georgians a few years ago. Educate yourself before forming and voicing an opinion.


[edit on 11-8-2008 by cavscout]

At a bare minimum we, the US should provide Georgia combat advisors, logistics and intel support. In addition private military contractors with UAVs and combat specialists personnel (former SF) should be provided.

Lastly NATO peacekeepers need to begin staging in Ukraine for peacekeeping operations after any ceasefire, followed with immediate basing of NATO peacekeepers in Georgia to prevent this from ever happening again.

reply to post by cavscout


lay off the drugs - and stop swallowing the crap that fox puts out

South Ossetia has been an automonous region since 1991 , the people of SO had to APPLY for russian citizenship , russia did NOT go round handing out passprots like candy - this has allready been proven around page 30 pf the big thread about this;

you would be crying if the USA didn`t defend your ass if a foreign country bombed it , so STFU about russia defending its own citizens when another country bombs them - oh and its only the west that doesn`t recognise SO being a seperate entity.

reply to post by Harlequin


Does the UN recognize the autonomy? If not this a mute point. Individual nations can make all kinds of declarations, but if the world does not recognize it and it flies in the face of International Law its a mute point.

Originally posted by Harlequin
reply to post by cavscout

 

lay off the drugs - and stop swallowing the crap that fox puts out

I dont take drugs, thank you. You need to calm down. Youre at like an 8, we need you at a 5. I imagine that if you were as agresive in the real world as you are on ATS you would be dead or in jail right now. Can we interact like normal humans, please?

BTW, I have NEVER watched Fox News. Not once not ever.

oh and its only the west that doesn`t recognise SO being a seperate entity.

Do you have proof of that?

I saw an interview with Bush this evening at the olympics. He looks very drawn and tired. And he kept holding his right hand up in a strange way. He said he had a 'very stern talking to' Putin. Ya. I bet. He looked like he had his kiwis in a vise.

[edit on 8/11/2008 by jpm1602]

Just like we let northern Iraq get slaughtered for helping during persian gulf one. Predictable.
The Kurds. Sorry, just couldn't think of the name.

[edit on 8/11/2008 by jpm1602]

We absolutely MUST help the Georgians they have been good allies to us and we owe them that much. This is an act of pure vicious aggression by Russia on a much smaller country merely because they hate it's freedom and democracy.

Russia must be put back into it's place before they start getting silly ideas and we have to nuke them it's much better to dominate them now with conventional US forces and give them such a good kicking they never fight a war again.

Ideal time to test the F22 in combat unfortunately it will mean a Draft but the ends justify the means and we should be able to finish Russia of in a month or so.

We are helping them.

Help doesnt have to come in the form of a Combat Brigade.

I am sure special forces are on the ground. You people do realize that is what advisors are right? Special forces and / or CIA.

Blackwater is active there as well.

What people don't realize is that an F/A-18 can take off a carrier in the straight of Hormuz, complete a sortie in Georgia and land in Turkey to refuel if arial tankers are not available.

Turkey has a vested interest in this.

An additional U.S. carrier carrying French aircraft is heading to the straight now. Just curious as to why it has French fighters?

reply to post by MikeboydUS


only 1/2 the UN recognise kosovo as a new country and those are western countries - eastern countries do not recognise it as a new country and no formal UN declaration has been made over the matter - further the EU do not officially recognise it as a country


so is it not a country and only a province of serbia?

thats kosovo , so can you see how thats related to this mess in teh caucuses , eastern countries recognise Ossetia as independant but the west doesnt....


cavscout

the US needs to back out and stop intereing in other countries;


passports - SO has been automonous since 1991 , 9 years later 85% of the regions population applied to be russian citizens (that was 2000) here we are 8 years later and russia wants to defend its citizens -

the status quo was fine until the idiot bulldozed his way into power in Georgia - then the 13 year status quo quickly broke down with the start of the war