We helped in Iraq - now help us, beg Georgians

reply to post by TKainZero



Sorry, but it isn't going happen... they may not have ruled it out, but the threat of mutually assured destruction will prohibit direct US military involvement... The same way it will when or If the USA attacks Iran, Russia will be in a similar position... wanting to aid Iran... but.....

It is what it is.

Originally posted by TKainZero
So, how long will it take to get US forces there, and what if any countries would rally to Russias side, AND, how long can Georgia hold out without outside help?

Thats a good question, Bush better get his ass out of China though if # were to hit the proverbial fan.

Originally posted by Gun Slinger

Originally posted by all2human
The USA's clout as a super power is definately at stake,

What? 27.5% of the worlds GDP rest in America, this in direct contrast to Russia, which accounts for roughly 2.5% of world GDP.

Russia is communicating pollitically and militarily that is not afraid of the USA

]

But economically, it cannot compete, and wont ever compete with the likes of America in that domain. Militarily, the US really has no equal (bar nukes). Russia is no exception.

that what can happen to US backed Georgia can happen to other pro western states

Russia is definitely flexing its muscles. I wouldnt say that this is something America should fear, it just means we need to better equip our "allies" with weaponry capable of deterring Russian aggression.

Russian forces may-well be pushing for a complete take-over as Georgian troops withdrawl. USA went from world police to world meter readers

Of Ossetia and that other "russian province". Russia wants back what was taken away from it after the USSR fell. It wants its former satellite states back.

i think military action will cease in Georgia completely after a day or two,

I apologize for the crudeness of my words but, The US needs to grow some BALLS and help it's ally. Otherwise not only will we have no allies left, but Russia will have just gotten larger by assimilating Georgia. Thus, in ten years or so we would have to face Russia anyways. AND NOW THEY WOULD BE BETTER PREPARED. How you ask? Due to the experience that their armed forces would have gained in subduing Georgia, thats how. Now please for the sake of all that is left of morality in this world, help your allies. If you don't your worse than your enemy.

Sincerely,

KGAB

reply to post by Karl7772000


Interesting philosophy, confront everyone who is a "gathering threat". How about just nuking everyone, then we will be sure there will be no aggressors in the world...wait, that sounds like aggression, nuking nations. Hmmm...

reply to post by Karl7772000


I agree to a point, i just think everybody is afraid of MAD

reply to post by TKainZero


Lets bomb Russia !!!! Char-broil em all!!! We can drop enough to extinguish Iran as weLL!

LETS ROLL

reply to post by all2human


Well I believe if MAD was going to occur it already would have, besides even Peter the Great... I mean Vladimir Putin isn't that crazy.

I am honestly Ashamed...

The US is damaging thier Reputation...

How can the US expect ANYONE to support them, if we won't defend one of our most commitied allies...



No one wants WWIII...

But you know that old song...

"You cant always get what you want...."

u r wrong, you can buy anything you want all with money, you can buy even god him self

its all about money, oil, exports imports etc this whole world is a sin, believe me, every goverment in the world is a sin a system which should be removed from humand kind, we dont need this anymore, its making us all fight each other cuz of boarders, looks faith, also faith should be removed


so, lets start clean like this

1, remove every gov in the world
2, remove every faith in the world
3, build million hosiptals around the world for everybody,
4, dig a giant tunnel through africa get these poor people some sea water so they can grow food, clean up the HIV , AID crap virus we inplanted in africa

5, hang all the war bastards that preach hate

6, stop killing animals, we can eat VEGITABLES TO


7, clean up the oceans from out wast

and finally,
8, stop using OIL

10, would be new fuel such as HHO more research

11, everybody should have plastic knifes, metal knifes will be removed guns bombs, nukes etc all gone


this is my perfect world

Well I know Iran would go to Russia's aid if the US helped out the Georgians and it broke out into all out war. Just my opinion and my own thoughts.

There are so many rumours and conspiracy's around this war.

Russia is saying that Georgia attacked them first by killing Russian peace keepers, and that may be so but according to the news reports russia invaded South Ossetia first (which is still a part of Georgia) and that provoked Georgia enough to attack, probably thinking they had the backing of their biggest Ally. The US.

Besides the fact of who started what first, the underlying reason behind this war is all political. Russia do NOT want Georgia or any other broken off old USSR states to "WESTERNIZE" themselves or to become democratic nations or to join NATO or the EU. It's all about the power and they do not want to lose their grip on these countries to the West. It's all to do with position, Oil/Gas pipelines.

Russia have been cutting off supplies, energy etc for a while now so it's not so difficult to see how this came to a head.

Russia has been seen as the "high school bully" for a long time now. Ukrainians are having the same problem with them. Most of the countries boardering Russia do not see "eye to eye" and Mr Putin (and I firmly believe he is still fully in control of Russia and not his puppet Medvedev) is a hot head, who is flexing his muscles to keep his cronies happy in the Kremlin.

Don't get me wrong, I love russia, I have russian friends, Im even studying the language, but it's just a shame that their politicians can't keep their heads on their shoulders. I think Mr Putin has made a huge mistake as his actions have damaged his countries public image. What little was left of it.

I just feel sorry for all those who are suffering in Georgia and their families. I also feel sorry for those Russians who have not had a hand in this war, alot of them are good people, just sometimes misunderstood.

I just hope that they can resolve this peacefully and quickly.

I don't think the US needs to go in with all guns ablazing but I believe something needs to be done and quickly.





[edit on 10-8-2008 by misswanderer31]

reply to post by misswanderer31


Great post...

World War is the worst of all things bad...

But, the world is just weak if they stand idlely by as Russia does whatever they want...


This is setting a DANGEROUS precident...

Whose next?

First they came for the Georgian, and i didnt care, for i wasnt a Gerogian...
Then they came for the Ukrainaian, and i didnt care, for i wanst a ukranian
Then the moldovans, and again, i didnt care, i wasnt Moldovian..
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to say anything...

oil oil oil

the US pushed all they could to get the EU to accept new members (former Warsaw pact) within the union, Ukraine and Georgia (two big former soviet states) have never hidden the fact they would gladly join too.
These events are the aftermath of a plan put up to isolate Russia and take control of the central Asian oil reserves (which are supposed to dwarve the Saudi ones)
It's no surprise to see Georgia's reaction who has well responded to all the winks and other signals from the "western" world making them believe they could join the EU at some point , not even talking about the US military aid.
Georgia had found a new way to make Russia pay for numerous military defeats and decades of occupation.

The US and EU have a lot to loose if Georgia falls back in the hands of Russia , a huge pipeline is planned through Georgian territory , linking the Caspian sea with the Black sea , allowing oil transport from central Asia to Europe , without passing through Russia
Turkmenistan,Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan on the southern "front", all have foreign bases on their territory , locking Russia a bit more in an even more difficult geopolitical situation
I am not supporting any of the factions, but maybe we are seeing a come back of a more balanced geopolitical situation in the world, a situation that might look like a cold war one, with two major blocks (with revised areas of influence though)
12 years ago a book was published called "the grand chessboard" by Zbigniew Brezezinski (isbn : 0-465-02726-1), i will not go into details but the current events are well detailed in it , do read it....and be shocked.

2 days may turn to twenty as troop buildups reported in abkhazskaya, 2nd front anyone? A new day has dawned in hell, that is Georgia

Wow where to start on this question!

First off Russia is fighting in their back yard. All they have to do is move men and machines from one part of Russia to the front line.

The US would have to cross an ocean set up a base and then start a counter offensive, this would be logistically impossible to do before Georgia is over run.

Russia new this going in and thats why it happened.

The best option is to get NATO troops into position to stop Russia from expanding their goals and start taking back former Soviet block countries.

My best bet is that Russia will with in the next 24-48 hours start to pull her forces back to the South Ossieta provence and set up a defensive position to protect the provence.

I would still expect air strikes on Georgian command and control structures and military hot spots all this week untill a truce can be worked out.

Another thing here on this situation in Georgia. Russia had pre positioned tanks, artillary and troops on the border waiting for the go sign, this was a well planned event that went wrong the Russians!

Something went wrong with the Russian Air Force, and on day one the Russian AF should have flattened Georgia.

It didn't happen? Where was the Russian A/F?

The ground troops did their job!

They held off the Georgians and then pushed them back to retake South Ossitea.

And why did Putin have to overnight it from China to take command of the battlefield? Because things were not going as planned!

Either the Russians are having internal fighting with in their command over this Georgian conflict or the Russian Air Force does not have enough flying fighter A/C.

Somethings not right, this fight should be over and Putin should be dining in the former Georgian Capital right now.

My guess is both. Generals did not want to fight this battle over politics and they knew their military hardware is obsolete and in low numbers.

reply to post by SIRR1


some very intelligent points

Originally posted by TKainZero

We helped in Iraq - now help us, beg Georgians

www.timesonline.co.uk

As a Russian jet bombed fields around his village, Djimali Avago, a Georgian farmer, asked me: “Why won’t America and Nato help us? If they won’t help us now, why did we help them in Iraq?”

A similar sense of betrayal coursed through the conversations of many Georgians here yesterday as their troops retreated under shellfire and the Russian Army pressed forward to take full control of South Ossetia.

(visit the link for the full news article)

I feel really bad about this on a personal level. I shared bases with Georgian troops and I respect them. I really wish there was something we could do to help. But the dirty ugly truth is anything more than arms sales would involve a direct fight with Russia and with considerable amounts of force and loss of life on their side almost assuring a powerful response in any number of places. It's just something neither Russia or the USA would do except in the most dire emergency and the ugly embarrassing reality is Georgia's fate is not that considering our priorities. Still though I'm torn personally and professionally and I only hope an appropriate response is forth coming.

I am almost positive Russia is in complete take-over mode,Georgia doesn't stand a chance alone! There is no reason for a second Russian front if there military is in defence of SO .The big question is, where is the international community in all of this The **** is slowly hitting the fan.

Originally posted by all2human
I am almost positive Russia is in complete take-over mode,Georgia doesn't stand a chance alone! There is no reason for a second Russian front if there military is in defence of SO .The big question is, where is the international community in all of this

The **** is slowly hitting the fan.

It's not likely Russia is going to attempt a complete takeover. But they will brutally pound Georgia and move against the separatist regions. The real question is, and I was reluctant to discuss it, is this. Why did Georgia move on SO offensively? Why did they provoke this response from the Russians when all knew Russia was just itching to make an example of a neighbor? Also, it's highly unlikely the USG didn't know this would be the response. So either the Georgians were set up buy the Russians. Or something else even more subtle is going on. Not enough data to say for sure but this is a situation to really pay attention to.