is rap music a conspiracy to destroy the language?

many consider rap music offensive lyrically, but i can't really go that far because the lyrics are just so infantile and innane. they generally sound like "bippity boppity give me the zoppity" to me. but i wonder...

most good citizens in the 1940s and 1950s considered jazz music immoral and destructive. "jazz culture" was associated with degenerates, anti-american activities and heroin. there was a prevailing theory among cops and feds alike that jazz was in some sense an effort to undermine decent american society. perhaps rap has taken that a step further.

william burroughs said that "language is a virus". once we get a certain type of language in our heads, it takes root there and pervades our thoughts. the black panthers and other such radical groups were well versed in psy ops and had an interest in destroying america.

what if the atrocious grammar and preposterously vulgar and juvenile word choice in rap is part of a deliberate campaign to destroy the american language? if so i would say it is working.

if you look at how prevalent ebonic speak has become, you can see that even educated respectable people are respecting to the poisonous hip hop lexicon. every new top 40 rap song is a new assault on the intelligence of the american people.

so what if it is no accident? what if the evolution of rap is an effort of those people to bring all of us down to their level?

Originally posted by Slothrop

so what if it is no accident? what if the evolution of rap is an effort of those people to bring all of us down to their level?

Are you serious? You might want to edit that last bit as it's a tad offensive.

Language is constantly evolving. Hip hop slang is slowly becoming embedded in our language because people like it, so they use it. It's hardly poisonous.

Hip hop is going to be like disco, it will be a phase in American entertainment and someday people will look back and shake their heads at how foolish we looked and acted, and how stupid our music sounded.

The cooler phrases that people like will remain in our culture, but probably not for long, until the new fad takes over and who knows what we'll be saying then. Get over it.

reply to post by drwizardphd

Are you serious? You might want to edit that last bit as it's a tad offensive.

i don't see anything offensive about what i said. i personally do not want to be dragged down to the same level as those people, nor do i want to see the american language corrupted and ultimately destroyed.

Are you saying that Snoop Dog, Dre, and Tupac conspired to destroy the American language? That that was their intent the entire time? That the hip-hop scene is in fact a cover for the deliberate destruction of the American language?

I respect what you're saying and I know where you're going with it. However, I think you might be reaching a little. People are afraid of what they can't understand - especially if it's something new, which hip-hop relatively is. There's always been slang in some form. Followers of a certain group, or scene, develop a unique language that helps them recognize other members of their group. They may develop a certain handshake. In time, they'll create their own language and culture. It's a group. That's what groups do. There's nothing unusual going on. In fact, it's quite normal. It would be more unusual if they didn't develop these things.

reply to post by DarthChrisious

Are you saying that Snoop Dog, Dre, and Tupac conspired to destroy the American language? That that was their intent the entire time? That the hip-hop scene is in fact a cover for the deliberate destruction of the American language?

no. i don't think any of those are bright enough to hatch any sort of elaborate conspiracy. don't forget that not everybody involved in a conspiracy has to be aware of exactly what they are doing.

i think that the conception and promotion of rap music is part of an elaborate psy ops campaign by people who hate what america stands for. once the "artform" was created and then promoted and took hold, there was no need for all the players to be aware of the larger conspiracy.

I don't know if it was a thought out conspiracy to ruin the language of America, but I do not understand most of the words spoken in rap. I like to dance around the house to it, I really dig the bass beat and it gets me going, I like to sing along to some songs like 'right thurr', it's kind of cool to slur your words like that at times (of course not when you are at work or anything like that), I really don't know if it hurts anyones ability to have good speech, I have some black friends who I do not understand about half of what they say, if that came from listening to music I would be shocked because, for example, I have known friend 'A' for all my life practically and he has always talked the way he does now, so does every member of his family. His kids don't though, they are all very articulate, I think their education has brought this about, their mom works on it, the schools here promote well spoken english, and his kids range from 3 years to 19 years old. Another black freind of mine hates rap, and would not let her children ever listen to it, she says it makes blacks look stupid and small minded. Dunno, I don't think it is a conspiracy.

[edit on 9-8-2008 by space cadet]

american is not a language thank you. you speak english. and to be fair with your comment that it all sounds liek be bop zip whatever just shows how narrow minded you are.

i dont like rap music but yeah you just seemlike an narrow minded person. and just for your information americans ruined the english language with their lazy spellings of words

Originally posted by space cadet
I don't know if it was a thought out conspiracy to ruin the language of America, but I do not understand most of the words spoken in rap. I like to dance around the house to it, I really dig the bass beat and it gets me going, I like to sing along to some songs like 'right thurr', it's kind of cool to slur your words like that at times (of course not when you are at work or anything like that), I really don't know if it hurts anyones ability to have good speech, I have some black friends who I do not understand about half of what they say, if that came from listening to music I would be shocked because, for example, I have known friend 'A' for all my life practically and he has always talked the way he does now, so does every member of his family. His kids don't though, they are all very articulate, I think their education has brought this about, their mom works on it, the schools here promote well spoken english, and his kids range from 3 years to 19 years old. Another black freind of mine hates rap, and would not let her children ever listen to it, she says it makes blacks look stupid and small minded. Dunno, I don't think it is a conspiracy.

[edit on 9-8-2008 by space cadet]

I personally wish we still spoke like the Brits- the way they speak always sounds so eloquent and intelligent! Anyways, no, I do not think there is a conspiracy to destroy the American language...what would anyone have to gain from that? I personally CANNOT stand ebonics; it is really one of my biggest pet-peeves, and I correct anyone who uses it. That probably isn't such a great idea...lol but oh well. I understand people from certain areas will be inclined to use ebonics; but it has been so popularized (for reasons unbeknownst to me) and it is used by upper-class wannabe gangsters. This is not meant to be offensive, but I feel like ebonics may have stemmed from African-Americans not being educated enough to know how to speak properly. Now that we have equal opportunities as far as education, why anyone would CHOOSE to make themselves sound unintelligent, and untelligable for that matter, is beyond me. It's one thing if you don't know any better; it's another to KNOW you're speaking improperly and doing it anyway. It really keeps getting worse too; more and more popularized. I don't really know why it annoys me so much; but it does.

reply to post by space cadet



Oh, and Space Cadet, I almost forgot to say what I meant to say in the first place. I DO think ebonics is affecting test scores and therefore intelligence and speech in America. In high school I was a teachers' aid for a freshman English teacher, and edited papers. Some kids are writing the same way that they speak; and literally do not know how to put a sentence together properly; don't know the proper uses of tenses and verbs etc. What's going to happen when it's time to apply for college and they can't even write an essay? It's almost as bad as using text or email lingo when you're writing a paper.

Do any other countries have issues with people butchering the language on purpose? I can't imagine something like this would go over very well in China

Well, considering I have several thousand death metal songs on my Zune, I suppose I'm in no position to comment on ebonics, as at least the average person can tell words of some nature and bastardization are attempting to be conveyed in hip-hop vs the guttural growls and snarls of what I enjoy listening to. I'll be honest, I don't like hip-hop. I don't like the beat, I don't like the themes, I don't like the cutesy little made up words. Do I think it is a conspiracy? Not in the traditional sense, no. I do think it's an attempt at forcing a cultural shift on our nation's youth as most hip-hop is clearly marketed and directed at suburban white kids, even though most rappers will say their music is for urban blacks. Whether that's a direct decision of the "artists" themselves, or a marketing move by the labels to go after the group with the most disposable income and the "artists" just follow along because it equals more money in their pockets, I do not know. It's also bled into other areas outside the music as you now see more white kids wearing FUBAR clothes and sideways hats (which, BTW, looks absolutely ridiculous to this redneck... you wear your cap forward unless you're welding or scoping a rifle, in which case your cap is turned backwards.) Since the cultural shift I mentioned earlier seems to have had a direct result of putting more money into the urban outfitters' pockets, I suppose some conspiracy conclusions could be drawn.

yes, look at 99% of people on rap record labels, they are all known zionist jews.

it's no secret that israel is trying to destroy america.

a conspiracy to destroy the language? perhaps. more likely, it is a conspiracy to perpetuate intolerance and disdain for the black ethnic group.

[edit on 8/9/2008 by prototism]

I somewhat agree with what the OP was getting to, no i don't think that Tupac Snoop or Biggie were all conspiring to demise, but maybe they were just...pushed in that general direction. Music Agents go out to certain areas and kinda scout about, find someone with the proper influence and personality and promote the hell out of them. The artist sees it as a golden opportunity to get their name out, the company CEO and his fellow dead beats sees it as their golden child to spread poison.

When disco died, rap music is the grim reaper. We need a new "The Beatles"esque band to save us from hell, and Fall Out Boy doesn't cut it.

If you notice, some bands original sounds (as in demo tapes) differ from their actual studio work. I know i know, its supposed to be different but maybe some certain bands are pushed in a hypnotic direction that appeals to their genre that helps taxi them to the rap genre, helping spread the virus. I see FoB as such a group. Why in the sam heck was Jay Z on their record?! Same thing with From First To Last having the underground rapper Major League Player on their 2nd record.

Why can't it be a conspiracy to demote the American people in the worlds view. Once we get to such a low, some random country hero will come to save the day. Hopefully...

Originally posted by drwizardphd

Originally posted by Slothrop


Hip hop is going to be like disco, it will be a phase in American entertainment and someday people will look back and shake their heads at how foolish we looked and acted, and how stupid our music sounded.

I could not disagree more,,, hip hop is almost to the 30th b day ( b day...

).
In fact most of those 30 year it has been very mainstream... If you look now "it" is
the most purchased and downloaded music in the world.

I am involved in the music world to some degree, I am also a musician and an engineer... What is very hard to see unless you are behind the scenes is that hip hop
has had a tremendous impact and influence on music, technological direction, musicality of players/writers and EAR TEMPERAMENT ( the training and depth and rate an ear becomes accustom or unaccustomed to sounds, harmonic progression, duration, repetition
etc ...In regards to a listener.

I personally think the impact that should be discussed is hip hops influence on the future of music it self... There is clearly a blurring of lines in regards to music.
Unfortunately hip hop is contributing undesirable practices and conventions to other "styles" of music.

In general the "music" in hip hop represents the very lowest mark of any musical creation. One only needs eight-bars or 32 "beats" repeated or looped to create a convincing track.

Mere tweaks in the arrangement by dropping instruments in and out of the mix now satisfies a listeners desire for movement... So musically you might only have a good ten - twenty seconds of diversity.

Second hip hop depends upon rhythm and does not depend on harmonic progression.
Which is a first in modern music unless you count a "BOOGIE".

Kind of like a movie with no plot but plenty of special effects....

Anyhow I could go on for ages... IMO the biggest problem with hip hop is that it dumbs down peoples ears. There are actually unscientific non less interesting studies on this.

Finally this creates a strong for more dumbed down music, more cheating by depending
solely on electronics for performance of parts. Musical discipline, knowledge and practice
is no longer a requirement.

The death of dynamics, subtlety and depth...

Hip hop is here to stay unfortunately.

Also on a side note rappers tend to value republican values

Whats mine is mine
You ain't taking mine
I'm gonna take yours
Give me my guns
War is more desirable then peace
Peace is for the weak
Dog eat dog
If your weak thats your own fault
Take what you can
I am not by brothers keeper
nothings free
don't tread on me
it ain't a crime if you can't prove it

Just an observation...



Pardon if my writing is wacky, its late

reply to post by Seekingmyself


I am really not sure why you are referring to my post in regard to what you are stating your experience and personal preferences are, if you referred to my post because I said I like to listen to SOME rap while at home cleaning house I don't see how that in particular is harming youth or anyone else, myself included. I am white, middle class and listen to many different types of music, I just get enjoy playing rap because it revs me up doing otherwise mundane chores. I don't always listen to rap when I am home, my fav channel for music is adult alternative, but I do have fun singing along with some of the rap (mental image is too much, I know! LOL!). I agree that ebonics has no place in the english lang. But just like the man Bob Dylan said in his song , wait, what did he say? I never understood him when he sang either, but I loved his songs! OH, and what about the famous Louie Louie? I think the music and ebonics might be 2 separate issues.

[edit on 9-8-2008 by space cadet]

this is pathetic and weak for the OP to go into a genre of music with little knowledge of it and just what he hears on commercial radio an television. Hip hop was a culture before commercialism killed it and turned it into a business. Rap has turned into popular music.

A culture requires a art form (graffiti) a dance (breakdance) a voice (MC) and an instrument (dj). This is the four powers of hip hop.No other music genre can even come close to this and why hip hop will always stay strong because of these elements. The commercial rap music that you hear now is nothing different from any other type of genre of music. They all talk about the same things?

You would be amazed how poetically justify-able a hip hop artist is e.g Pharoahe Monch.
A lot of the work from this guy is simple but intellectually driven and his wordplay is unmatched. I was blown away by his live performance, live band and his two back up singers Mela and and Showtyme a couple of months ago at a Festival.

I could name a number of other artists such as mos def, jedi mind tricks, talib kweli, common etc. who don't abide by the crap that you generalize with.

If you want a better understanding of hip hop then maybe you should read Jeff Chang's book 'Total Chaos: The Art and Aesthetics of Hip-Hop'. It is a bit of an eye-opener for hip hop dummies.

I don't vibe with kids these days who don't understand the roots to the music they listen to. It is called being lazy,naive and unappreciative of what this culture has had to struggle through. Hip hop does not support violence, it exposes it for what it truly is, it exposed our societies faults and weaknesses. I don't respect any artist who has called it a business without appreciating its cultural heritage.

I'm very critical in working in this industry and don't get along with the promoters/posers who are trying to make a quick buck or get laid in the evening.

[edit on 9-8-2008 by nahsik]

A culture requires a art form (graffiti) a dance (breakdance) a voice (MC) and an instrument (dj).

that's a bizarre definition of what it means to be a culture.

I could name a number of other artists such as mos def, jedi mind tricks, talib kweli, common etc. who don't abide by the crap that you generalize with.

i've listened to all of that and i'm not impressed. i've spoken to talib kweli several times and he's not really all that bright. he's better educated than the average thug, but not especially insightful.

i was absolutely including all of these when i referred to rap.

hah! its quite hard to believe that with your hatred of rap music that you would actually meet artists like talib kweli and go on that its a conspiracy that these people are dumbing down your children. Quit hypocritical in a sense and pretty much a poor excuse of poor parenting. If your so worried of what's happening to your kids why don't you just get off the computer and start spending more time with them.

[edit on 9-8-2008 by nahsik]

so you would blame heavy metal music for kids worshipping satan/devil?

[edit on 9-8-2008 by nahsik]

Originally posted by nahsik
hah! its quite hard to believe that with your hatred of rap music that you would actually meet artists like talib kweli and go on that its a conspiracy that these people are dumbing down your children. Quit hypocritical in a sense and pretty much a poor excuse of poor parenting.

talib kwali and i attended the same boarding school. i've met him at several school charity and fund raising functions. he's a nice enough guy but clearly not all that bright.