Russia/Georgia Situation News & Updates

Russia warns NATO, criticizes missile deal

Russia's ambassador to NATO warned the Western alliance Friday not to cut ties with Moscow over the fighting in Georgia, saying it would harm both sides.

source

Link

Georgian president signs truce, vows not to surrender to Russia
11 minutes ago

TBILISI, Georgia — Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili said Friday he signed a ceasefire agreement with Russia that protects his country's interests despite concessions to Moscow. Visiting U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Russia's invasion has "profound implications" for the West.

Hosting a news conference with Rice, Saakashvili said he will "never, ever surrender" in showdown with Russia, and he accused the West of inviting Russian aggression.

He appeared just hours after President George W. Bush stood outside the Oval Office of the White House and accused Russia of "bullying and intimidation" against Georgia. Bush said the Georgian people had chosen freedom and "we will not cast them aside."

For his part, Saakashvili said: "This is not a done deal. We need to do our utmost to deter such behaviour in the future."

Rice, noting that Saakashvili had signed the draft truce agreement, said it protects his country's interests and said all Russian troops "must leave immediately. She also said that Russian President Dmitry Medvedev had signed an identical pact.

"With this signature by Georgia," Rice said, the Russian pullback "must take place and take place now."

At one point, the beleaguered Georgian leader said: "Sorry for these emotions. But I feel emotion."

Rice said the time has come "to begin a discussion of the consequences of what Russia has done. This calls into question what role Russia really plans to play in international politics."

She also noted humanitarian aid already being provided by the United States and other countries and said that access for these supplies "must be immediate and unimpeded."

"When the security situation in Georgia is stabilized," Rice said, "we will turn immediately to reconstruction efforts."

[edit on 15-8-2008 by Digital_Reality]

reply to post by JSR


Well the vast majority of the people of S. Ossetia and Abkhazia do want to be part of Russia. The presidents of the two republics were elected on the platform of friendship with Russia - with about 80% votes each - showing that the people in the breakaway region want to be with Russia. It would of course be more accurate to say that they want to be with North Ossetia (same culture and ethnicity) which is inside Russia.

Of course there is a question - what will happen to the Georgian minority in the two breakaway regions - just as was the question with Serbians in Kosovo. Granted most Georgians left these de-facto republics during the first wars there in early 90's, there is still a sizeable number of people remaining (many of whom already fled to Georgia in recent days).

This ethnical Georgian population is why Georgia insisted on having peacekeepers within the de-facto republics. This is a tough issue for both sides - Saakashvilli already betrayed his own ethnical Georgians in SO by plunging the region into war. Now Georgia risks being cut off from those Georgia, again much like Serbia and Kosovo. There is no guarantee that if the republics become independent these minorities will be protected - especially given that many S Ossetians are very angry now.




At the same time - Georgia has no hopes of being able to live together with S Ossetians in the same country again. S Ossetians will not forget this bloodshed for many decades. Most Caucasus ethnicities are culturally very vengeful people - with blood for blood vendettas. It is simply impossible for Georgia to regain full constitutional control over the republics without more blood.



Personally I do not and never did support Abkhazia's and S. Ossetia's independence - just as I do not support Kosovo's or Chechnya's independence. But the alternative is - that these republics will have to remain de-facto forever. There simply is no reconcilliation possible.

I think Medvedev should not rush to affirm their independence. Russia/SO/Abkhazia should work out the conditions for independence with Georgia on common terms. Yes it will take long, possibly many years. But this is the only way to escape anymore bloodshed. Both Russia and Georgia face a very tough negotiation ahead. Neither side will likely be satisfied with the results, but the end result - no more bloodshed - is well worth the extra time.

Melescanu: Romanian Defence Ministry makes no weapons

Romanian Defence Minister Teodor Melescanu said on Friday, in Constanta, south-eastern Romania, that Romania does not export weapons and ammunition to Georgia, but verifications will be made if there were some 'commercial' contracts for that.

The defence Minister said so in answer to a question related to statements by Abkhaz leaders made in the media, they said that in Kodori Valley in Abkhazia the Abkhazs have seized from Georgians weapons made in the United States, Bulgaria and Romania.

source

Also interesting to note that Rice basically said, "OK, now get out of Georgia and take your South Ossetian militia with you."

Easier said than done, Condi.

Sarkozy Sees Way Clear for U.N. Resolution on Georgia

French President Nicolas Sarkozy on Friday welcomed Georgia's signature of a ceasefire accord ending hostilities with Russia and said the way was clear for a U.N. Security Council resolution to end the crisis.

source

Originally posted by -Rugged Shark-
Maloy, can you perhaps tell me how strong Medvedev's position is?

You mean on independence or on the whole war?

His position on the independence issue is strong - he personally met with the leaders of the two de-facto republics. If he backs out now, it will be seen as a major weakness - both within the Russian political sphere and worldwide. I think he will stick with the idea firmly. He will also refuse to continue the peace process with Georgia unless Georgia makes an agreement with Bagapsh and Kokoity, and admits that they have the right for self-determination.

Of course the U.S. is there behind the scenes too - and hell knows what it is thinking. I would guess U.S. would be willing to let the two regions separate from Georgia - but it will then make Georgia part of NATO. This is where the situation is heading I think.

Originally posted by -Rugged Shark-
I mean if this pans out bad for Russia, could the Duma put him out of office in an attempt to save face?

Not really. Duma is largely in agreement with him. Even if some politicians in the Duma do not support Russian advances into Georgia - they still think that the blame rests largely on Georgia and Russia is in the position to make conditions for ceasefire - not Georgia.

Remember Duma is controlled by United-Russia, Putin's party. It is controlled by Putin. So if Putin is satisfied with Medvedev, Medvedev will stay in power. If not, only Putin has the power to launch an impeachment - but this will not happen over this war.

Originally posted by -Rugged Shark-
It seems to me that Putin will be the morral winner, no matter how things go.

Well Medvedev "officially" controls Russia, so any accusations against Russia lie on him - even if he is not pulling the strings as some believe. Putin as far as "officiality" is concerned on the other hand just makes speeches now. So yes - in a way Putin remains on the sidelines, even if he is really in control.

reply to post by -Rugged Shark-


Any word on the precise lettering of the accord? Did it include any conditions regarding Georgia's territorial integrity? If so the document was altered and now needs Russia's signature again.




Interesting side note:

Did anyone notice some Western media started referring to S. Ossetia's capital as Tskhinval instead of Tskhinvalli? Tskhinvalli is Georgia's name for the city - which underscores that it is still part of Georgia. Tskhinval is Ossetians' name for the city - which they use to refer to their de-facto independence. I think I saw either BBC or some other Western source start using the name Tskhinval.

[edit on 15-8-2008 by maloy]

reply to post by maloy


Thanks for your indepth answer

I had difficulty understanding how strong Medvedev's position as president was, but you cleared that up for me. Thanks again.

reply to post by maloy


I haven't seen the exact lettering of the document yet, I'm trying to find it. I know that by Russia's request some things were changed, mainly in regards to the securityzone and the status of the two de-facto republics.

As far as I can tell, Russia still needs to sign the document aswell, since Rice went from France straight to Georgia and hasn't been to Russia yet.

reply to post by -Rugged Shark-


I thought Sarkozy got Medvedev's signature a couple of days ago and Condi just picked up the treaty from him? I could be wrong though, so much going on and so many different news sources it's giving me a headache...

reply to post by mythatsabigprobe


That was a different agreement, both signed by Georgia and Russia. But I guess that's void now with the new agreement.

It's all still writing in the sand:

Miss Rice brought with her a draft French-brokered ceasefire that would require Russia to withdraw its combat troops from Georgia but would allow Russian peacekeepers to remain in the flash-point separatist region of South Ossetia and temporarily patrol outside the area.

However, Miss Rice said the document would preserve the long-term principle of Georgia’s territorial integrity. “It needs to be a formal ceasefire, which is what we are working on,” she said. “But in order to get to that point there really does have to be important clarifications on a couple of these points (in the ceasefire) in order to make sure that Georgian interests are protected. Because the United States would never ask Georgia to sign on to something where its interests are not protected.” source

The march goes on:

IGOETI, Georgia (Reuters) - A Russian military convoy advanced to within 55 km (34 miles) of Tbilisi on Friday, a Reuters witness said, in the deepest incursion since conflict with Georgia erupted last week.

The advance by some 17 armored personnel carriers (APCs) and about 200 soldiers coincided with a visit by U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to secure Georgia's signature on a French-brokered peace plan to end the fighting. source

Russian Armored Column Moves Closer to Tbilisi NYTimes


[edit on 15-8-2008 by Regenmacher]

Maloy, what do you think of the reports of Serbia selling weapons to Georgia? Is Serbia stabbing Russia in the back for Kosovo... or is it corruption and greediness in the Serbian leadership?

Yes it appears from Russian sources that Russia must now sign it again, and possible SO and Abkhazia need to sign it as well.


I feel that this "peace accord" is now going to be tossed from one side to the other for some time now.

Georgia kills civilians in S. Ossetia -- Russia invades to help S. Ossetian people.

Is that basically the gist of what happened?

www.alertnet.org...

UN's Ban unable to reach Russian leader on phone
15 Aug 2008 17:24:21 GMT
Source: Reuters
UNITED NATIONS, Aug 15 (Reuters) - U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has so far been unable to contact Russian President Dmitry Medvedev by telephone to discuss the crisis in Georgia, a U.N. spokesman said on Friday.

Ban has spoken to Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili, who called him on Thursday.

Asked by reporters whether Ban had also been in touch with Medvedev, spokesman Farhan Haq said, "The secretary-general has been trying to contact the Russian president, so that's a call that we're still trying to arrange. We weren't able to set up a call."

Ban is expected to meet Russia's U.N. Ambassador Vitaly Churkin, possibly on Saturday, Haq said.

A simmering crisis over the rebel Georgian region of South Ossetia exploded a week ago, when Georgia sent a force to try to retake the Russian-backed province, provoking a massive counter-attack by Moscow.

Ban said on Thursday he was alarmed by the humanitarian situation and lawlessness in the conflict areas in Georgia. (Reporting by Patrick Worsnip)

Russian army convoy 55km from the capital of Tbilis

local news here in finland 5.08.2008 20:35

some 13 mins ago

might have been posted

just a heads up

Today's time line

18:30 9 armored vehicles of Russian Army accompanied by 3 Mi-24 helicopters moved towards Tbilisi. They stopped and opened check point near village Igoeti 25 kms from Tbilisi, Kaspi district.

17:00 Russian troops began withdrawal from Poti. They took with them 8 "Black Shark” boats, 7 A type boats, 2 Coastal Guard vessels. They also took equipment from the buildings of the Coastal Guard in Poti.

16:10 Russian soldiers kidnapped 4 member of Namgalauri family from village Ghogheti of Kareli district. Kidnapers moved towards Znauri.

15:30 Russian helicopters are overflying Bordjomi-Tsemi forests and dropping fire setting engines. There are already from 12 to 15 fire locations. Russian military confirmed of flying helicopters over this territory without further comments.

source

yupp 17 vehicle convoy
acording to afp could be less then 40km

[edit on 15-8-2008 by zerbot565]