a draft would be the best thing for this generation

reply to post by Slothrop

I volunteer you to go to Iraq, and fight an illegal war for a useless bunch of sand dunes. I volunteer your children and your childrens children to do the same, and I hope that you are wounded but not killed so maybe you would understand that the wars that neccesitate the draft in the first place should not even be happening.

At this point I don't think thinning out the numbers of an already thinned-out up and coming generation is a good idea. What's needed is to guarantee eduction and health care to those who desire it. This country is dead without an educated and healthy workforce and no amount of slugging it out with other countries will save this one without that. If things drop far enough it will get invaded. The vultures are circling as we speak but it's not too late yet.

reply to post by TKainZero


How? By turning them into mindless clones? Yeah, everyone should be forced to be violent. That will surely help everything.
It's clear that you have no interest in "servitude" to your country, but rather turning everyone into a brainless, heartless brute. We've been playing your game for far too long and guess what? Nobody wins.
Do you comb your hair with a cactus and sleep on a bed of nails, too?

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
And, for the third time, I say: Go talk to a homeless or disabled vietnam draftee. Ask them if they think being drafted "toughened them up" or was a good thing for their lives.

Ask them how it feels when they hear of people (most of which I assume were not drafted) are okay with stealing even more young lives like that.

I DARE YOU.

What about the guys that were drafted, went to Vietnam, and then came back? I know a lot of those guys didn't want to be drafted, didn't enjoy their time in VN, but said they were the better for it.

And that includes a lot of guys that were wounded, too.

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
And, for the third time, I say: Go talk to a homeless or disabled vietnam draftee. Ask them if they think being drafted "toughened them up" or was a good thing for their lives.

Ask them how it feels when they hear of people (most of which I assume were not drafted) are okay with stealing even more young lives like that.

I DARE YOU.

What about the guys that were drafted, went to Vietnam, and then came back? I know a lot of those guys didn't want to be drafted, didn't enjoy their time in VN, but said they were the better for it.

And that includes a lot of guys that were wounded, too.

As I said, I dare you to go to someone who was not fortunate like those you know(and there are hundreds of thousands of them), and as them those things.

Just because not ALL were affected in such a terrible way, does that mean that it's okay that hundreds of thousands of lives were ruined?

Also, I'm not sure what your buddies did, but I'm guessing they didnt see any actual action. I have NEVER, and I repeat, NEVER met a vietnam draftee that considered it a good experience.

reply to post by jerico65



LOL... I haven't met one. I have never come across anyone that spent time in a combat zone that stated they were better for it. The few I know spend most of the time drunk or angry for no apparent reason. The majority of our homeless are Vietnam vets. Statements such as yours make it apparent as to why history will always repeat itself no matter how great the mistakes...

I'm sure if they truly had the chance they would take it all back if someone offered them a job and an education...

On a further note we haven't ever stayed in the dark ages. History makes the same mistakes because people make the same mistakes. We need to start learning from them.


[edit on 7-8-2008 by freakngeckos]

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
As I said, I dare you to go to someone who was not fortunate like those you know(and there are hundreds of thousands of them), and as them those things.

Just because not ALL were affected in such a terrible way, does that mean that it's okay that hundreds of thousands of lives were ruined?

Also, I'm not sure what your buddies did, but I'm guessing they didnt see any actual action. I have NEVER, and I repeat, NEVER met a vietnam draftee that considered it a good experience.

Hundreds of thousands? Oh, yeah, I forgot, EVERY homeless person was a Vietnam Vet. Still buying into that fiction?

Well, considering you have to be in combat to get wounded, I guess you can say they've seen "some action".

And did you really read my post? I said they DIDN'T like it, DIDN'T want to go, DIDN'T enjoy being wounded, but thought that being in VN helped them grow in a way that staying home wouldn't have done.

Good or bad, it's their lives and their opinion. I'm not one to say, "Hey, you're wrong!"

ya know what slothtrop?, I think I see where you are coming from..everyone here is blasting you because they are what you are talking about..We as a people have become quite lazy, and I dont think alot of the "younger generation" has any idea what the term "hard earned dollar" even means!!!
But I think there are other way to instill in us some morals, respect and ect...
The problem is I cant think of what it is.This great country was built with a draft instituted..Not everyone was happy but waaaahhhhhhh, its like instead of the privilaged few its a whole generation that is silver spooned CORRECT???

Originally posted by harvib
LOL... I haven't met one. I have never come across anyone that spent time in a combat zone that stated they were better for it. The few I know spend most of the time drunk or angry for no apparent reason. The majority of our homeless are Vietnam vets. Statements such as yours make it apparent as to why history will always repeat itself no matter how great the mistakes...

LOL, well, I have met those guys.

As I wrote in my previous post, you still believe that every homeless person was in Vietnam? Every VN vet was drunk, or stoned their entire tour?

Sorry, Gus. That's Hollyweird fiction.

Check out a book called, "Stolen Valor". Really good read on the whole Vietnam Vet experience.

I dont know if its been brought up already, but not only is this whole idea of forced service idiotic but very very unconstitutional.

As a teenager of "this generation" I am ashamed of people like the op who believe just because they are old they know everything in the world. Little does the OP know that his little plan goes AGAINST everything this country was founded on. If I do not want to go to war I do not have to go to war. Simple as that.

The fact that he even supports war as a solution for lifes problems is ridiculous. The emotional drama that comes from combat scars a soldier for the rest of their life. Giving them severe fears, guilt, feelings of regret. Basically going to war screws up your life more than it helps.


This entire thread is insulting. Thank god the majority of the posts are against the OP's very stupid idea.

And one last thing, I am sick and tired of adults thinking that everyone my age is lazy, doesnt know what resposibility is or doesnt know how to work. You are just as bad as the people who segregated the blacks. I know what responsibility is, I know how to work for my money, and I know for damn sure that teenagers aren't the only lazy generation. The fact that you are an adult posting on a conspiracy forum during the middle of the day is a bit hypocritical.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by caballero]

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
As I said, I dare you to go to someone who was not fortunate like those you know(and there are hundreds of thousands of them), and as them those things.

Just because not ALL were affected in such a terrible way, does that mean that it's okay that hundreds of thousands of lives were ruined?

Also, I'm not sure what your buddies did, but I'm guessing they didnt see any actual action. I have NEVER, and I repeat, NEVER met a vietnam draftee that considered it a good experience.

Hundreds of thousands? Oh, yeah, I forgot, EVERY homeless person was a Vietnam Vet. Still buying into that fiction?

Well, considering you have to be in combat to get wounded, I guess you can say they've seen "some action".

And did you really read my post? I said they DIDN'T like it, DIDN'T want to go, DIDN'T enjoy being wounded, but thought that being in VN helped them grow in a way that staying home wouldn't have done.

Good or bad, it's their lives and their opinion. I'm not one to say, "Hey, you're wrong!"

Yes, there are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of homeless and disabled vets out there. If you aren't even go to do the research, how are you going to challenge my numbers.

As for your wounded friends, while I think you are flat out lying, I do not believe any of them, if they are real, consider themselves better for having been in combat.
BTW, being wounded absolutely does not mean you have actually seen combat. Lots of "wounds" are from training missions or mishaps on a base.

"It [conscription] rests on the assumption that your kids belong to the state. If we buy that assumption then it is for the state--not for parents, the community, the religious institutions or teachers--to decide who shall have what values and who shall do what work, when, where and how in our society. That assumption isn't a new one. The Nazis thought it was a great idea."

The above quote was said by RONALD REAGAN regarding the draft. But I suppose Mr. Reagan was a big flaming lib, right?

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
Yes, there are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of homeless and disabled vets out there. If you aren't even go to do the research, how are you going to challenge my numbers.

As for your wounded friends, while I think you are flat out lying, I do not believe any of them, if they are real, consider themselves better for having been in combat.
BTW, being wounded absolutely does not mean you have actually seen combat. Lots of "wounds" are from training missions or mishaps on a base.

As I posted before, check out a book called, "Stolen Valor". It will blow a few holes in the "hundreds of thousands of homeless vets" theory. Here's an Amazon link to it. I think you'd find it pretty interesting.

www.amazon.com...=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1218147017&sr=1-1

Now, let's address this claim of my lying. First of all, do you even know me? Do you know my past? My friends? Obviously not, or you wouldn't be spouting off with crap statements like that.

The guys I know were awarded the Purple Heart. You can't get that from a "training mission or base mishap". Gotta be in action with the enemy. So, that sort of shoots down that BS statement of yours.

Have a fine AFSOC day.

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by harvib
LOL... I haven't met one. I have never come across anyone that spent time in a combat zone that stated they were better for it. The few I know spend most of the time drunk or angry for no apparent reason. The majority of our homeless are Vietnam vets. Statements such as yours make it apparent as to why history will always repeat itself no matter how great the mistakes...

LOL, well, I have met those guys.

As I wrote in my previous post, you still believe that every homeless person was in Vietnam? Every VN vet was drunk, or stoned their entire tour?

Sorry, Gus. That's Hollyweird fiction.

Check out a book called, "Stolen Valor". Really good read on the whole Vietnam Vet experience.

It's not Hollywood fiction and I never made a statement about every Vietnam vet. Only the ones I have met. I will say it again. I have never met one that views serving in Vietnam as beneficial in any way. Maybe you live in a different demographic. And to try to justify forcing young people to kill and be killed as being beneficial...

reply to post by Critical_Mass


Totally agree with that. Fighting doesn't just mean physically hurintg others. I have as much respect for a brave soldier as I do a protester willing to put themselves in danger to stop wars.

Really lots of right wing propaganda in the thread here. It's in movies and even those games that the OP so hates. I think education is what is needed.

Wars are won not on bravery but on who has the money and the best scientists as well as most advanced tactics. People out there selling games are making profit too. They are paying tax. The tax then helps the country get more money. That money allows the government to buy better weapons, upgrade the technology, buy more mercenaries etc to help the war.

So please don't think that the games themselves are to blame. They help through the $ you gain and also create jobs to make your economy healthier.

And like I say humans are limited in what they can do which is why you guys are starting to use unmanned drones to fly at speeds the human body can't take. You can have planes that refuel without the need for the human to be there. The future is in using machines to help you kill more efficiently. But this all costs money and who funds all the research? Where does the money come from?? Come on...

Stop bullsh!tting yourself you senile old timers. Your pension comes from the people who are working hard everyday, just not in the more primitive direct sense where it requires being in a warzone themselves.


Every time I see an older generation person blame videogames as their scapegoat it reminds me of the people in the movie "equilibrium" where you had society banning emotions and the solution to everything is to not let anyone read books, make them take a drug to control their brain, and basically make them into robots, in order to maintain peace. That's not any kind of life worth living.

Before you can have freedom you must first awaken to some of the realities of life. You guy might be old but you haven't matured as a human being. If there were an alien race out there watching you they would think of you as some immature kid fighting and killing his brother over control over toys.

You can have a false sense of security through using wars to kill people to bring peace, or you can have real lasting peace which involves working out problems without needing to use violence. This is what needs to be taught to kids. It's not EITHER/OR.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by Snake Plisskin]

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
Yes, there are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of homeless and disabled vets out there. If you aren't even go to do the research, how are you going to challenge my numbers.

As for your wounded friends, while I think you are flat out lying, I do not believe any of them, if they are real, consider themselves better for having been in combat.
BTW, being wounded absolutely does not mean you have actually seen combat. Lots of "wounds" are from training missions or mishaps on a base.

As I posted before, check out a book called, "Stolen Valor". It will blow a few holes in the "hundreds of thousands of homeless vets" theory. Here's an Amazon link to it. I think you'd find it pretty interesting.

www.amazon.com...=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1218147017&sr=1-1

Now, let's address this claim of my lying. First of all, do you even know me? Do you know my past? My friends? Obviously not, or you wouldn't be spouting off with crap statements like that.

The guys I know were awarded the Purple Heart. You can't get that from a "training mission or base mishap". Gotta be in action with the enemy. So, that sort of shoots down that BS statement of yours.

Have a fine AFSOC day.

A purple heart can be given for being in a car accident. Nice try though.

No I dont know you, but I know plenty of people who make outrageous claims such as the ones you are. And they all "know somebody" who coroborates their story. But yet, we never meet that "somebody".

As for your book, I may read it, sound kind of interesting actually. But do you really think one book can prove wrong the overwhelming majority of data out there on the subject? There are always going to be different points of view, but you are going to have to come up with more than 1 book to disprove what most every researcher out there agrees on.

As for you air force special command day...no thanks. I'll take a day without murder.

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
A purple heart can be given for being in a car accident. Nice try though.

Bullsh*t. Purple Heart is for combat wounds. Sorry, Gus, nice try.

Tho I'm not a big fan of Wikipedia, here you go:

en.wikipedia.org...

Or you may want to shoot an email over to these guys. I'm sure they'll enjoy your take on the whole deal:

www.purpleheart.org...

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimisticNo I dont know you, but I know plenty of people who make outrageous claims such as the ones you are. And they all "know somebody" who coroborates their story. But yet, we never meet that "somebody"..

Well, believe me or not. I really don't give a crap. Not losing any sleep here.

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic As for your book, I may read it, sound kind of interesting actually. But do you really think one book can prove wrong the overwhelming majority of data out there on the subject? There are always going to be different points of view, but you are going to have to come up with more than 1 book to disprove what most every researcher out there agrees on...

Whatever. Read the book. I have one question: How do you explain the 45 year old guy claiming to be a Vietnam vet?

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic As for you air force special command day...no thanks. I'll take a day without murder...

"Air Force special command day". Now that's funny! Not even remotely close, but funny.

Oh, yeah, "murder". Guys got back from Vietnam and were called "baby killers". Guys in Iraq are now going to be called murderers. Whatever, Gus.

Thanks for trying; good luck next time. Make sure you get a copy of our home game! You are definitely a no-go at this station.

reply to post by Slothrop


Way to prove your ignorance and lack of so-called "wisdom" that comes with age..

I suppose all military personal and all people drafted are automatically fascist minded and .. ahem .. "patriotic" ..

reply to post by Slothrop


With all the chaos our Military is involved in, not to mention unnecessary involvement, how can you expect anyone with even a tiny amount of common sense to agree with a draft...?

If you had said that this Country's civic ideals have gone in the trash, then you may have an argument for mandatory service. Now, I did not say draft, but service...this could be in the form of the Peace Corps or Red Cross.

I have always been for civil service, but to ask citizens to put themselves in harms way for the benefit of the State, is a no-go. Especially when the majority disagree with the action in the first place.

Just like there is too much reliance on the State in a Socialist society, there is too much reliance on the citizen in a Capitalistic society. There must be a medium, and some philosophers such as Tocqueville have discussed this, but as of yet, there has been no cure all for either one.

Being Patriotic comes in many forms; serving in the military is one.

And another is to start a revolution - and take down the Tyranny that sets policy and places those that love their country in harms way for nothing more than monetary gains; of which most see little tangible effects from the gains. So, I'd be careful what you wish for, 'cause maybe those people in their basement playing WoW might rise up and start some $hit.

Then we will see Patriotism really put to the test...