a draft would be the best thing for this generation

Just curious, how is forced conscription in the US military going to improve the deterioration of civil liberties in the United States?

That's like mandatory volunteerism, the very definition of oxymoron.

If killing in the name of evil makes these guys feel important, let them eat war. Sooner or later they'll go the way of the Dodo. If no one remembers, the draft in Vietnam was a complete failure. The same will be true in this case. Anyways...

Let the robots grow old and rust.

Originally posted by Slothrop
reply to post by krill

 

the gulf of tonkin incident was an example of a noble lie. it was necessary to convince the american people to enter a war whose purpose they wouldn't readily be able to understand.

vietnam was absolutely necessary to stop the spread of communism and protect us interests in southeast asia.

It seems that the propoganda has worked on somebody.

I really dont understand why communism is so bad, Altruism and equality for every single human being. Sounds very peaceful, and a lot better than selfishness and wars because they have something we want and they wont give it to us.

The only people the spread of communism was going to affect so dearly were the industry leaders of the corporate world, they did not want to loose all the money and power they had so they helped stop the spread of communism. It wasnt that communism is evil, its actually better in theory, its that the super rich wanted to stay super rich and they were and are willing to start a war to do so.

Its time to take the red pill and get a dose of reality in your system.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
I would support the idea of a draft only if it was compulsory for everyone.

You graduate from High School and then you serve the government for 2-3 years. Service should not just be military service. You could be put in a conservation corp to fight wild fires and replant forest. You could be put in an Urban Corps to rebuild and/or modernize the infrastructure of the US.

You could be involved with something like the peace corp with emphasis on helping developing countries utilize appropriate technology to improve the lives of their citizens.

Think about the possibilities if we used our most valuable resources ( our youth) in such a manor.

You could also make it mandatory for citizenship here in the US.

If you don't serve then you should never be able to collect benefits from the US in any way shape or form.

Am I the only one that thinks Bob77 is on the right track here?

2 years of mandatory community service, is that so bad? Maybe get some levees fixed. Maybe rebuild some hurricane areas. Maybe learn how other people live, learn some compassion, learn anything more than how to beat Call of Duty 4 in 12 hours or less.

Now if a draft was mandatory....for everyone....in whatever shape or form
that doesn't mean your odds of going to war are greater, if anything it will be much less. Because it would be the tipping scale. Members of Congress aren't going to throw their legacies into a war without it being necessary. We parents would have a bit more incentive to vote people like Bush out of office. He would never ever have gotten a 2nd term if there was a draft back then.

Hey, I was until today against the draft, mostly because I never gave it much thought and equate it with the Vietnam war. I think it is a mistake to think along those lines now. We have a generation that could care less about who runs this country (if they even know who does) what interest then do they have in preserving it? They just assume we will always be #1

Ok, I'm done wasting my breath. But I think Bob77 (kind of like Norway and Israel do I think) has the approach towards the draft that we should consider.

Originally posted by Slothrop
reply to post by krill

 

why exactly was vietnam a necessary war ? i assume you do know that the gulf of tonkin incident that brought us in to the war was a staged false flag operation and has been admited as such. so why was it necessary again?

the gulf of tonkin incident was an example of a noble lie.

wow, a noble lie....so would you call 911 a noble lie?

This is one of the more sensible posts I have seen on this site congratulations.

I fully support a draft the youth of this generation are nothing but lazy spongers bleeding the country dry. They are more concerned with their big mac meals, tv shows and video games than the good of the country.
A good war would be a great opportunity for them it would get them fit, teach them life skills, and boost the economy.

A win for all involved sure a few would get killed but at least their family's would have something to proud of.

I understand the point you are trying to make here. A draft would bring a sense of loyalty to these kids and an understanding of freedom and sacrafice, though were at a point where I don't think people want to goto war without just cause. Nowadays it seems wars are fought with no basis. No one wants to die for big business. Give me a reason worth fighting for and ill go voluntarily, otherwise just secure your own living here.

Originally posted by Shamanator
A good war would be a great opportunity for them it would get them fit, teach them life skills, and boost the economy.

A win for all involved sure a few would get killed but at least their family's would have something to proud of.

Hmm, that would be a comfort for those that lost sons and daughters. Brothers and sisters. Not to mention those that are on the receiving end of this war. What will you and your family be doing in this war?

reply to post by Shamanator


This is a ridiculous debate. Fear in this county is running rampant. It equates to the paranoid so fearful about getting robbed they give up all their worldly possessions before the unseen boogieman gets a chance to. Why are there some so quick to erode this country from the inside out to prevent the country from being eroded from the outside in.

reply to post by Shamanator


Being dead isn't being fit. I guess your idea of life skills is senseless murder? Oh, and the current war on terror is CERTAINLY helping our economy. Get off your grandpa's bayonet.
Another robot, another ridiculous comment.

Originally posted by dariousg
Back to the topic, can you answer the question on the funding part that I posed. That seems to be the part that supporters of a draft or civil service don't want to answer.

Shoot, who knows? That's always the problem with good ideas, isn't it? Where are we gonna come up with the bucks to pay for it?

I think most people here agree a military draft isn't the answer, but a draft of people to do either the military or a form of community service might work.

You said earlier "the thing about being a patriot, about loving your country, is that you don't get to pick and choose which actions you agree with and which actions you disagree with. it's time we understand again that it is good and right to support one's country. "

But this is the very essence of our beloved country is that we do get to pick and choose what we agree and disagree with. I agree that no child should be left without education and food and shelter and free from abuse. I agree that we are all created equal and that we have the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I do not agree with unjustified violence towards anybody be it man or country.

You are not a patriot, sir. You can only be described as any other fanatic can be described...a terrorist. Someone who seeks change through fear and violence. Shame on you. To openly want to send kids, not even old enough to drink, who are armed and scared into a situation where the desired result is bloodshed is simply vile.

Do not mistake me I love my country, but I also love other countries as we are all on this rock for better or worse. Why not make the better of it.

I'm sorry to have to reply anonymously but I forgot my password to my account. I am BurningAlvin if you feel the need to address me directly or through posts. I hope you will change your mind about life and the way things ought to be.

Why always assume that every person that opposes a draft is a computer dork? I might add that these "computer dorks" will use their intelligence to improve life as we know it, whether it be finding cures for diseases or inventing equipment to help the economy. Why should those people die? Because cavemen like you who are only capable of shooting things and nothing else? Please...

Theres an old saying that I think really applies to this topic

"if you're country told you to jump off a bridge, would you do it?"

apparently you would...The MOST patriotic thing you can do, is oppose your government. You've somehow melted government and country into one.

reply to post by Sleuth



I think the US should have mandatory military service like many other countries. Those basement bloggers and video gamers need some discipline and they desperately need a gut level understanding of what it is to sacrifice on behalf of their fellow citizens.

So why exactly aren't you in Iraq playing platooon with the peasants?

Obviously you have a gut level understanding of what it means to sacrifice your life for the bottom line profits of haliburton/ exxon/ shell / monanto/ etc etc

Please enlighten us what it was like when you made the decision to die for the lies spewed out by your government?

Please educate us all on how you fell to your knees in grief when the computer game you were playing , sent a missile into the home of a traumatised family whos only shelter from you war game, was the darkness and bliss of sleep.

Please tell us all sir, how you felt every last horrific emotion of the 4 year old whos body has been ripped apart.
What was it like looking through her eyes in terror at what remained of her parents strewn through the rubble as she took the last breath of her very short life, the life she did not chose to sacrifice but was plucked away by a mindless hero with his finger on an execute button.

Please tell us these important things , the gamers are listening the idle are waiting , the world is your audience . Fortuantely for you everyday there are more little children who wont be gaming, this should satisfy your disquiet untill those you condemn are fodder for your electronic cannons.

Originally posted by Slothrop
i see and hear a lot of paranoia these days about the government instituting another draft. in my mind, a draft would be about the best thing for the current generation of american kids.

ever since vietnam, which was a necessary if unpopular war, american democracy has been debased until it has become no more than a tyranny of the masses. the government is now expected to bow down to popular cowardices and feelings of entitlement. we have welfare and food stamps, but no compulsory service to one's country.

an entire generation of americans is involved in their country in theory only, playing world of warcraft or writing blogs from the safety of basement rooms while the world grows more dangerous day by day.

these people should be made to realize that, in being a patriot and a citizen, something is always at stake. a draft may be the only way.

The government is supposed to be by the people for the people. The world is no more dangerous today than it ever was. There has always been tyrany, there has always been rebelion. I have a family, I have a job, I have a college degree that I use. I'm smart enough to know that this war was started on false pretenses, and I'm smart enough to know someone complaining about people doing nothing but posting on the internet while posting on the internet themselves is a hypocrite of the worst kind.

Originally posted by Shamanator
This is one of the more sensible posts I have seen on this site congratulations.

I fully support a draft the youth of this generation are nothing but lazy spongers bleeding the country dry. They are more concerned with their big mac meals, tv shows and video games than the good of the country.
A good war would be a great opportunity for them it would get them fit, teach them life skills, and boost the economy.

A win for all involved sure a few would get killed but at least their family's would have something to proud of.

This is the most vacuous, retarded post I've ever seen here. I assume that you're not "of this generation", since surely YOU'RE not a drain on the economy. You realize that this generation is paying for your social security RIGHT NOW, and we're not going to have social security, right? Maybe we should send YOU to Iraq. That way, when you get your face shot, 'THIS GENERATION" won't have to support your ass when you can't work anymore.

And as far as fighting for the good of my country, I fail to see how dying in a desert a half a world away is going to be in the long-term best interest of my country. Improve the economy? Ditto. A billion dollars a day are going into the sandbox. That money probably is better spent blowing up them Ay-Rabs than it would be building schools, repairing infrastructure, funding research/ scholarships. Or even paying down our ridiculous national debt. HIGH return on our investments there. What's the average rate of return on a missile that gets invested in a school in Iraq? 7%?

"THIS GENERATION" is going to be cleaning up this mess until YOUR generation finally, finally dies.



[edit on 7-8-2008 by '___'eviant]

[edit on 7-8-2008 by '___'eviant]

While I dont agree with a draft, I do agree with a form of National Service (NS), whether it is the UK or the US or anywhere else.

It could work like this: At school leaving age, you could either:-

Go to college or university (Thus avoiding NS).
Join the Army, Navy, Airforce, Marines (Thus avoiding NS).
Join the Coastguard (Thus avoiding NS).

OR

National Service: Period of 18 months or possibly 2 years.
This would be made up of several different agencies or National Projects such as:-
Forest/Park Rangers
Fire Service
EMT Work
Beach/Pool Lifeguards
Conservation Projects
Environmental Projects

At least this way, you could be doing something for your country. Just an idea.

Originally posted by joe_dirt976
wow, alot of these people say they are "patriotic" but when was the last time anyone one them actually sacrificed anything for their country?


/from merriam-webster
Main Entry: ter·ror·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈter-ər-ˌi-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1795
: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion
— ter·ror·ist \-ər-ist\ adjective or noun
— ter·ror·is·tic \ˌter-ər-ˈis-tik\ adjective

and to elaborate



Main Entry: ter·ror
Pronunciation: \ˈter-ər, ˈte-rər\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French terrour, from Latin terror, from terrēre to frighten; akin to Greek trein to be afraid, flee, tremein to tremble — more at tremble
Date: 14th century
1: a state of intense fear
2 a: one that inspires fear : scourge b: a frightening aspect c: a cause of anxiety : worry d: an appalling person or thing; especially : brat
3: reign of terror
4: violent or destructive acts (as bombing) committed by groups in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands
synonyms see fear
— ter·ror·less \-ləs\ adjective

so that's covers a good amount of people, criminals no doubt. But are you going to defend their rights to mug you if they're american, or are you going to fight them?


the war is justifed in this context

Since when does fighting in a foreign war or making 'sacrifices' = Patriotic?

That is yet another bad term that I have seen today in this thread. Very poor thought process in that.

Patriotic is standing against those the have instituted TERROR. So far, all of the evidence I have seen points to a U.S. sponsored terror network. I hate to say that because it just plain sucks.

Then I hear from people in 'terror' countries and they say that what we report here is not nearly as bad as it is. The 'terror' is being played on us to scare the people into accepting an illegal occupation.

Remember, IRAQ had nothing to do with TERROR. Yet we are still there.

Terror: Scaring your own people with blown up exaggerations in order to achieve your own financial means.

Try that definition. If terror was so rampant then why haven't we been hit again? Seriously. And don't try to play the "we are safer now because of the laws that the Bush administration has enforced." That's a bunch of crap and you know it. If you don't then you are lying to yourself. Our security has been tested over and over and it has failed miserably. We cannot keep illegals from crossing our borders so we are miraculously able to keep terrorists from crossing? Get real.

It's a big fat lie to scare people like you. That's what terrorism is.