a draft would be the best thing for this generation

reply to post by moocowman

If you had taken the time to carefully read my posts, I object to the war in Iraq.

I am no fan of big business and I oppose war for profit.

Like it or not, if the crap hits the fan, the military is what stands between you and those who would kill you and this country.

You need to separate the military from how its power has been abused by the government.

Nice blinders, Slick. It ain't all about Iraq.

[edit on 8/8/08 by Sleuth]

reply to post by Slothrop


The only person who could possibly say such a thing is someone already in the military, or someone too old to get drafted and get their limbs blown off by a roadside bomb.

I personally would not like to become a eunuch just so that I could be deemed patriotic for fighting in an unecessary war.

If I fight, it better be for something damned good. WWII was a just war.

If you see me on the battlefield with a rifle in my hand, it is literally "End Of Days."

Your all going in circles, save yourself the time.

reply to post by Slothrop


I think you must not read any type of history whatsoever, or your view of the world is skewed for some obtuse reason, that we ever needed the Vietnam War, or the current war in Iraq for any reason.

As someone who has read a thing or two, see the saracasm there, about history, there is usually never a reason to have war, except to make the "war machine" more profitable for those who control it.

Any person who would post on here stating a draft is a good thing, obviously does not know anything about history, nor how the American population sees war, and the needless use of war to do anything with exception as a population control effort.

Did you vote for Bush and Cheney, or are you just a spokesperson on their behalf?

The American populace, from all the people I talk to on a daily basis, as well as in My lifetime, hate, despise, and do not want war, for any reason, which is why ignorant politicians have the necessity to lie, cause, or create a reason for war.

I've studied the Art of War all of My life, and I see that it is needless, and have turned it into the Art of Peace for who I am.

Why would you want to perpetuate the cycle of idiocy on Capitol Hill and the White House?

I agree with OP, but for different reasons.

There shouldn't have to be a draft... we should all join up. The reason is:
'dance with the one what brung ya'. In other words- go with your civilization, period.

The US ( and I love her ) is a nation of cold- blooded murderers, most of whom are too cowardly to get splattered with blood.

Like the famous vomit episode with H. Himmler at the concentration camp.


We should stop hiring mercenaries for all this... we should scalp some Indians, rape some Okinawins, frag whole families. Otherwise, we might have to cut back on the thyroid gravy this Sunday. Can' t have that, right ?

Get in there deep and personal. Conscript 'em if you have to.

reply to post by Skelkie3


Sorry for the cynacism in the last post.

I'm just so tired of the evil ones ( people who can murder ) and their
Satanic episodes ( war ).

I question the reason for this post and others by this poster. Each post has been one of very narrow government knows best interpretation of reality inspired or a cointelpro profiling effort initiated by the OP. I am not sure which and if I openly speculate on this subject and start a thread about it the mod deletes the thread so I will pose my concern in this thread.

OK hotshot go ahead and join up. As for me it's been there, done that. Being 60
I've paid my dues a long time ago.

I think that we should be like most other countries in this world where at least the 18 yo boys have to serve at least a 2 year term. and in some cases even the women have to join as well!

reply to post by Slothrop


I agree, institute the draft for just one person.
you.
And may you be used in place of the mine sweepers since metal is something we should protect.

b

I wonder if this was posted because it was so obviosly wrong. This war is a lie and has only served to make us less free.

I'm more affraid of this government then terrorists.

By the way I wish all our troops could come home so we could show them in person that we support them.

Originally posted by Bspiracy
reply to post by Slothrop

 

I agree, institute the draft for just one person.
you.
And may you be used in place of the mine sweepers since metal is something we should protect.

b

Now, that was funny. Draft that and smoke it.

Originally posted by Slothrop
the fact that you weren't able to vote for president bush doesn't mean you should be excused from national military service. the thing about being a patriot, about loving your country, is that you don't get to pick and choose which actions you agree with and which actions you disagree with. it's time we understand again that it is good and right to support one's country.

So you denounce communism and then basically spit that out of your mind which sounds like it was written by Stalin. Well done.

Originally posted by Slothrop
the gulf of tonkin incident was an example of a noble lie. it was necessary to convince the american people to enter a war whose purpose they wouldn't readily be able to understand.

A noble lie? I'm sorry but now you are paraphrasing Herman Guerring, do you even realise that? Propoganda is never a good thing froma government.

"The people can always be brought to do the bidding of the leaders, you simply convince them they are under attack and denounce the pacifists of lacking patriotism." - Herman Guerring

I'm 21 years old. You people of the last generation elected Bush ENOUGH to win. Although I do believe he did not truly win the election, but that matters not. I feel there is no need to vote as the Government will determine who becomes elected anyways. Take Obama for example he has won already and don't debate it. Statistics show he's got it in the bag. Anyways I'm joining the Army not for you or anyone else. I'm not doing it to fight for what many people consider 'freedom' I am doing it to start a career, and not only that I feel it will benefit me towards trying to better myself. I do feel that younger kids 17+ that are on drugs should not be forced into the military, but I do feel they should go through basic training. I have no idea on the effect it would have on giving them a look at reality, but maybe it would help someone. As for you saying everyone should be made to do something; doesn't that strip people from their freedom?

reply to post by Slothrop


"i didn't "stand by", i worked to get bush elected"
- At least you admit you are responsible for this situation.

Honestly what has this country given to people my age? We can go to war and die but we can't even gamble or drink!? I have a feeling (or I hope) that you are trying to make a point about the way ignorant people in this country think.

Being a Patriot is COMPLETELY about being able to pick and choose which actions you agree and disagree with. If the founding fathers hadn't disagreed with the crap going on in England at the time there would be no America. If you seriously feel that a true Patriot follows command you are very misguided.

If you want war get your ass over there and quit trying to have everybody else fight your pointless unjust wars. The war we need to be concerned with is the one here at home that I like to call Bush's War on the Constitution. (which you admit you are responsible for...basically you are the enemy)

Furthermore, it is completely wrong to start wars that have no just reason, and sending military men and women to war to push your own agenda is wrong. If something was actually a threat to the way we live a war and draft would be completely right, but in our current situation it is just wrong.

Tell Bush Sr. good luck on his New World Order for me!



[edit on 7-8-2008 by blahblah123]

Originally posted by Slothrop
duly edited by the bean, upon recovery from indigestion from yesterday's mexican burritos and a multitude of bizarre postings from the mentally slothful.

i see and hear a lot of paranoia from the government instituting yet another level of godless unconcious fear in the current generation of american kids.

ever since vietnam, which was by definition (ie "war") violent, genocidal, suicidal, insane, karmic, evil, murderous and totally unnecessary, american democracy has been a toy of the ruling psychopathic elite, until it has now become no more than a empty concept to control the masses and make them think war and threats of total global annialation is continually necessary to maintain peace. And the government is now expected to bow down to ET greys and those goddamn reptilians and take it up the rear end. The public have fear and confusion, but still regrettably no compulsory slavery and coercion to kill another human brother or sister let alone ET's because someone else said so.

woe is me, an entire generation of americans is hypnotized to tolerate the constant need for war, murder, bloodshed, torture, nuclear holocaust, ecocide, sanctions, slavery, and margarine, needlessly cowering in fear while the world grows safer day by day whilst 99% of all human race merely needs a nice piece of toast with real butter to be happy.

these people should be made to realize that, by the false loyalties to the evil ruling classes, the constitution is at stake. a draft may be the only way to end all life on this planet as we know it.

well unfortunately the gulf of topkin was a staged event much like 9/11 was. Believe in the eyes of the New World Order there is no such thing as countries though I agree with you that kids today my generation are very stupid, lazy, complacent, media obssesed individuals. Try asking the ones who were drafted into Vietnam if they thought it was a good idea

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by RavagedSky
A soldier is nothing but a paid murderer. I will never raise arms against someone I have never met just because a concept like "the government" tells me that violence and murder is ok when I do it in their name.

Really? What about the thousands of soldiers who have never even shot at someone let alone killed them? Are they paid murderers too? And you wouldn't shoot someone who was trying to kill you? Really? You wouldn't even attempt to save your own life? Have you any clue what restrictions our military is under? They cannot just shoot people, nor do they. If you actually spoke to someone who has been overseas you would know that they don't just shoot and kill everyone they see. They practically have to be shot before they can do anything to save their own lives.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by Jenna]

There is quite a difference between defending yourself when an armed criminal breaks into your house in the middle of the night, and defending yourself in a land that does not belong to you where you have been deliberately dropped with weapons to force a brutal regime change.

You can't really call it self-defense when you know that your job title involves the high probability of being attacked.

You are a paid murderer if you are receiving payment to kill others. That's it. It doesn't matter if you're a soldier, a hitman, or a terrorist.

Patriotism is an immoral and vicious virtue.

"Patriotism in its simplest, clearest, and most indubitable meaning is nothing but an instrument for the attainment of the government's ambitious and mercenary aims, and a renunciation of human dignity, common sense, and conscience by the governed, and a slavish submission to those who hold power. That is what is really preached wherever patriotism is championed. Patriotism is slavery."
—Leo Tolstoy, Christianity and Patriotism

"A good soldier is a blind, heartless, soulless, murderous machine. He is not a man. He is not a brute, for brutes kill only in self defense. All that is human in him, all that is divine in him, all that constitutes the man has been sworn away when he took the enlistment roll. His mind, his conscience, aye, his very soul, are in the keeping of his officer. No man can fall lower than a soldier—it is a depth beneath which we cannot go."
— Jack London

I believe in protecting family, friends, property, happiness, and the right to life and liberty.

I do not, however, believe in protecting something as immoral and violent as a state.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by RavagedSky]

reply to post by elskato


Being stupid, lazy, complacent, and media obssesed is no reason to send a person to die for something unjust.
Pretty soon the 10 year olds will be out fighting wars for the old rich white conservative men...who hopefully will all die soon.

They are scared that we have the possibility to change the world. We don't have to live by their rules and morals. We are "crazy out of control whipper snappers" to them because they don't understand that war isnt the only answer and that money isnt everything. A really big thing they don't realize is that respect is earned and not given..and they hate that, everybody should kiss their ass because 5000 years ago they fought in a war, because people back then didnt try to change anything...it is because of the old folks that we are where we are...I work around the elderly old men and they are always bitching about "negroes, gays, poor people, Jews,...basically everybody under the sun...my god everybody is the same and they cant seem to view the wider picture...most of them are very narrow minded theres only one way to do this (the old way of course) shallow individuals.

I have great hope that my generation can at least improve things and change the world. If we ignore the old brainwashed people (they will die soon) and we keep an open mind we can make the world a better place. Don't let people like the thread starter get to you...basically they are just jealous of our potential. Think positive and remember we will soon be in control. (Ooooh scary old people the loud music disrespectful kids will be in charge of the country...We might take away your social security..which we are already paying for you..so maybe you should show some respect..)

[edit on 7-8-2008 by blahblah123]

I voluntarily joined the Navy at 17. It was one of the best things that ever happened to me. Of course, there wasn't a war on at the time and I wouldn't have had to fight in any case because I'm female.

Nowadays, I work at a place that serves troubled males ages 11 - 17. I don't work directly with the boys as I am admin, but I did at one time and I still interact with them at meals and so forth.

Based on my background and experience, I can see the OP's point in one respect. I agree that our youth need discipline. In my personal opinion, many of them also need to learn compassion, respect, personal responsibility, and how to get up off their lazy behinds and DO something.

However, I'm not so sure a national military draft is the way to accomplish that.

I think the problem with many of these kids is that they have been pampered, spoiled, and overprotected. They don't feel part of anything; many of them seem not to even really feel part of their own family. They don't know what it means to contribute, and many of them have no concept of sharing. Making a contribution to their community would help some of that, and give them at least some exposure to discipline and responsibility. They might also learn the satisfaction of a job well done, becoming a contributing member of a community, following through on a commitment, and get some exposure to those less fortunate than themselves. (no matter who you are, there's always someone who fits that description)

I suggest we institute community service at the community (town, city, neighborhood, etc.) level, perhaps while they are still in high school or going to college, and do not pay them. Depending on what they are doing, they may get educational credits for their community service, but no monetary pay. There are lots of "jobs" that need to be done that no one is doing. As a part of the nonprofit world, I know that every agency is begging for volunteers because there are never enough.

So require the teenagers to do volunteer work for their community, for the community itself or for a worthy nonprofit. The structure to handle volunteers is already in place; as is the logistical structure for handling mandatory community service. it would cost very little and would provide at least some of the type of experiences that the OP and I both think American youth need.

(edit to insert words; sometimes my typing doesn't keep up with my thoughts)

[edit on 7-8-2008 by Heike]