a draft would be the best thing for this generation

Originally posted by Wildbob77
I would support the idea of a draft only if it was compulsory for everyone.

You graduate from High School and then you serve the government for 2-3 years. Service should not just be military service. You could be put in a conservation corp to fight wild fires and replant forest. You could be put in an Urban Corps to rebuild and/or modernize the infrastructure of the US.

You could be involved with something like the peace corp with emphasis on helping developing countries utilize appropriate technology to improve the lives of their citizens.

Think about the possibilities if we used our most valuable resources ( our youth) in such a manor.

You could also make it mandatory for citizenship here in the US.

If you don't serve then you should never be able to collect benefits from the US in any way shape or form.

Okay Wildbob. Now answer me this. As I have asked before. How are we going to pay for this 2-3 years of compulsory service? Right now our income tax is high enough. If we start employing a hundred million people then we are going to have to come up with the money somehow. How?

Originally posted by Slothrop
i see and hear a lot of paranoia these days about the government instituting another draft. in my mind, a draft would be about the best thing for the current generation of american kids.

ever since vietnam, which was a necessary if unpopular war, american democracy has been debased until it has become no more than a tyranny of the masses. the government is now expected to bow down to popular cowardices and feelings of entitlement. we have welfare and food stamps, but no compulsory service to one's country.

an entire generation of americans is involved in their country in theory only, playing world of warcraft or writing blogs from the safety of basement rooms while the world grows more dangerous day by day.

these people should be made to realize that, in being a patriot and a citizen, something is always at stake. a draft may be the only way.

I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH YOU! THERE SHOULD BE A DRAFT! And here is who should be drafted, and sent IMMEDIATELY to the front lines in Iraq.

1) Anyone with a net worth over $10 million dollars. You've benefited the most from the freedoms here, you pay the heaviest price.

2) Anyone who's pay is more than $1,000,000 a year, in WHATEVER form it takes (stock options, bonuses, etc.). Same reason as above.

3) EVERY SINGLE BOARD OF DIRECTORS AND TOP MANAGERS of ANY company, public or private, who has profited a SINGLE DOLLAR on the war in Iraq.

4) Every single politician above the township level in America, including all the whitehouse, both houses of congress, and ALL federal and state judges.

Now, THERE is a draft we can agree on! Institute a draft like that, and watch war come to an end in our lifetime!

Originally posted by Wildbob77

You could also make it mandatory for citizenship here in the US.

If you don't serve then you should never be able to collect benefits from the US in any way shape or form.

Okay. If they make it mandatory then they will need to ship us out. What? At birth? We aren't citizens until we turn 18 and SERVE the government?

And if you say we don't serve we don't collect the benefits then I say okay. Stop taking taxes from me.

You see. Your argument is not going to get us anywhere. What you are proposing, in the long or short run, is a revolution against the government. Period.

reply to post by Slothrop



wow... I totally disagree. you said "these people should be made to realize that, in being a patriot and a citizen, something is always at stake. a draft may be the only way." So your saying that we should give up our freedom to be patriot.

You should really pay 5 times more on taxes then if you really love your country why not pay the bills.

If you support all these wars you should pay the bill of these wars not the people that was against it.

I am really sick of hearing Iraq was legit. I also never heard anyone here talking about why the U.S generals were at the hanging of suddam hmmm maybe it was a friendly tea party ???

I can only say this if you like your country enough to give up your freedom you are free to do so but don't drag everyone else into it.


I have said this many times and will say it again. We need to find out every single person that voted for Bush for 2 terms and they should get the bill from the bush admin of all the expenses occured since you supported him and think he done a great job you should be willing to get stuck with the bill.

I seriously think everyone that voted for bush for both terms deserves to get the bill since it was their votes that allowed the damage to be done.

I am sure if we attack Iran we will have a draft because we have to many battles going on at the same time.

I don't understand why people think war is needed. I notice most americans don't know anything about the stock market. The stock market shows a picture of our economy and shows how much the wars impact us over here in the U.S

First gas prices rose... then now we have food prices going up. Then we have shipping pricesing going up and then we have now airfare/taxies going up.

We have cost going up and saleries going down. I bet most americans say hmmm that is good because if prices go up we then make a profit form it since the cost of empolyess go down..ect..ect

I don't get why you say that a draft is a good idea. I am in college currently and their was a lady that works in the military and she told me that there is talks about drafting, she hears this because she talks to other people that works with her and most of them know other people that work at other military bases and they do get visits from important people top noch.

I know that if we do attack Iran we need a draft I don't see how we can have order in Iraq afganistan and pakistan.

but it looks like bush has to attack Iran in aug or sep if he dosen't he will be too late and there will not be a war.

Iran is trying hard to not allow this war to happen this is why bush is getting alot of road blocks to do such an attack.

If we do attack I am just saying our stock market will crash, because Iran has certain control on shipping routes which can effect us and also oil/gas ect. He will strike our wallets.

Just to say that money in a war is the most powerful weapon, it's like fire the more of it the more fire spreads the less of it the less damage they can do.

these are just my comments/thoughts about this subject (drafting)

If you seen that movie made my mikel moore fahrenheit 9/11 asking senators and congressmen if they would draft their kid to our war wnated a signature he only got one 1 signature that was it.

The rest didn't want to. So it's like saying the rest of americans should be drafted but not our kids or family memebers.

So does a draft sound good now. I hope you watch that movie and then rethink about this topic.

Because I know if we attack Iran we will need man power which we don't have.

last 2 years I was in my last year of high school and military people kept coming after me to sign up with the marines and I will get a free hat and a free computer game. I kept saying no. Then I get a call from navada some military base asking if I am interested in working in the army.
They asked me questions about my weaight, body fat, astma ect and told me that I am fit to be in the army. This was right after I registerd for college where the fed aid money for college required me to fill out a form that will put my information in the draft database. I got the draft card which has my info and what number line I am in the draft database.
The guy that colled me he called me back a week ago asking if I talked to my parents about it and what my decision is, which I told him that I plan to go to college and if I do go in the military I would like to be in computers or in the airfoce.

He called again but this time my dad answered it and told him that we are not interested.

My dad has lived in the U.S for a long time and he said he never seen such desperation before.

Those are just my thoughts. What do you guys think??

Wow. I read the first page and that was quite enough for me.

To the OP: That might be the single worst idea I have heard proposed for this country. Congrats you win the brainwashed moron award. Cherish it.

Many have already said what needed to be said so I will make this quick.

Actually, I'm not going to waste any more time on this than I already have. I can only hope you actually absorb and accept some of the replies here and change your view because right now you sound like a brainwashed Obama freak.

Originally posted by Shamanator
This is one of the more sensible posts I have seen on this site congratulations.

I fully support a draft the youth of this generation are nothing but lazy spongers bleeding the country dry. They are more concerned with their big mac meals, tv shows and video games than the good of the country.
A good war would be a great opportunity for them it would get them fit, teach them life skills, and boost the economy.

A win for all involved sure a few would get killed but at least their family's would have something to proud of.

I am absolutely astonished at the severe lack of business sense 'some' of the posters have on this site. Support this? I simply ask. HOW? Tax the living crap out of the people who have already served so that they only take home about 30 to 40% of their paychecks? You people aren't thinking and it scares the crap out of me. More than 'terrorists' do.

And the fact that you automatically lump all of the youths in this country into the big mac eating group is pathetic. The bulk of the kids in my community are out at the park during the summer playing like kids do. I'm sorry that the neighborhood you live in is so devoid of healthy kids. You simply need to broaden your horizon my friend.

*Edit: Changed 'many' to 'some' just in case the wrong people take offense.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by dariousg]

Originally posted by Wotan
While I dont agree with a draft, I do agree with a form of National Service (NS), whether it is the UK or the US or anywhere else.

It could work like this: At school leaving age, you could either:-

Go to college or university (Thus avoiding NS).
Join the Army, Navy, Airforce, Marines (Thus avoiding NS).
Join the Coastguard (Thus avoiding NS).

OR

National Service: Period of 18 months or possibly 2 years.
This would be made up of several different agencies or National Projects such as:-
Forest/Park Rangers
Fire Service
EMT Work
Beach/Pool Lifeguards
Conservation Projects
Environmental Projects

At least this way, you could be doing something for your country. Just an idea.

Once again, this country was founded on the right to choose. The right to choose religion, politics, where you work, what you drive, who you marry(if you marry) etc....

The minute you force servitude, you change the constitution and founding ideas of this country forever.

The government is there to work for the people, not the other way around...

Again, consider the amount of PAYING jobs this would eliminate....

I'm feeling kind of redundant here, but nobody seems to want to comment on these points....

[edit on 8/7/2008 by cautiouslypessimistic]

This topic is such an interesting debate, however, it was wrong from the get-go. The argument is not that people don't appreciate their rights so they need to go to war, the argument is for a mandatory civil service for all 18-20 year olds to better our country.

Our generatrion wouldn't be being trained as soldiers and sent to die but rather as mechanics, technitions, construction workers, and other govenment jobs. For a set time they would work on projects around the nation such as the rebuilding of new orleans or working in federally funded projects, much like Americore.

Ironically, a mandatory civil service would actually keep us out of pointless wars such as the one we are in right now. It creates a connection between all people and their governing body. If every mother's son was going to fight in Iraq tomorrow the protests would stop this war in its tracks.

Though I don't support the idea personally, if done correctly, one could argue a persuasive and correct argument for a draft.

reply to post by Shamanator


A boost to the economy? Please elaborate. Like the current "boost?"

Originally posted by Shamanator
This is one of the more sensible posts I have seen on this site congratulations.

I fully support a draft the youth of this generation are nothing but lazy spongers bleeding the country dry. They are more concerned with their big mac meals, tv shows and video games than the good of the country.
A good war would be a great opportunity for them it would get them fit, teach them life skills, and boost the economy.

A win for all involved sure a few would get killed but at least their family's would have something to proud of.

And I just have to say this. Hopefully a mod will see this and present this yet again to management. We need an 'unflag' button or a 'dark star' or 'sad face' (maybe and 'idiot' face) for posts like this.

Sure, a few will get killed but your parents will have something to be proud of. Their child died fighting on foreign soil in a war that is illegal and not supported by most and is making the men who sent them their rich.

Garsh, I'm so proud!

Originally posted by Slothrop


an entire generation of americans is involved in their country in theory only, playing world of warcraft or writing blogs from the safety of basement rooms while the world grows more dangerous day by day.

um actually the world is mostly a peaceful and beautiful place besides the areas the govt decides to turn to turmoil. sometimes the stupidity of a select group of my fellow us citzens makes me hate america a lot.

if warmongers like yourself get your way and theres more war and a 'draft' it just gives me a nice excuse to leave all the idiots behind for more sensible climates, sure i wont be alone . the most 'dangerous' parts of the world are the brains of certain republicans

reply to post by moocowman

I am a woman. I served my country in the 80's. I wore a uniform and I carried a rifle and I stood ready to defend my country.

I'm older now and I have health problems that preclude me from further serving my country. I would if I could.

Why?

Because someone has to have the balls to defend this place I call home. You obviously aren't interested in doing so. With neighbors like you, who needs enemies?

It ain't all about Iraq, Slick.

Sleuth

[edit on 8/7/08 by Sleuth]

reply to post by Slothrop


The vets I know (some Vietnam) don't want a draft and prefer people that volunteer to be watching their backs.

The latest generation has been stripped of many benefits that one might say are welfare. Alot of reform was done to appease those that consider benefits to be something only the lazy and low class receive without understanding how it benefits them or not really caring.

The Vietnam generation was one of the last to have "welfare" as the New Deal systems hadn't been screwed with yet. Now they're going on the welfare that people pretend isn't welfare as they retire. They want all their retirement benefits (medicare, SocSec, VA) but don't want anything given to others. It doesn't work that way. Get in line if you want to deny things to people. You're the first people the neocons will want to get rid of. They're doing it now by increasing general levels of stress.

I'd say that that welfare generation turned out to be the biggest bunch of entitled brats on the planet. Their parents are very different. The Vietnam Vets also tend to be more introspective and reasonable in my experience. Some are whacked-out weird but not whiney.

(/rant)

To heck with conving or proving. I'll just wait till it all comes to light. All the info is out there about it anyway.

reply to post by Wotan

Wotan, I agree with compulsory national service as an alternative to a draft. It offers more options, yet still provides the structure necessary to teach these kids some discipline and civic responsibility.

[edit on 8/7/08 by Sleuth]

Originally posted by Sleuth
reply to post by Wotan

 

Wotan, I agree with compulsory national service as an alternative to a draft. It offers more options, yet still provides the structure necessary to teach these kids some discipline and civic responsibility.

[edit on 8/7/08 by Sleuth]

Dear God, would someone then PLEASE answer HOW WILL WE PAY FOR THIS? If you think 9 trillion in national debt isn't enough then imagine what it will be like when we MUST employ a hundred million teens for 2 to 3 years.

They won't do it for free. Period.

reply to post by Wotan

Im getting really sick and tired of people assuming that somehow you have to 'do something special' to help your country.

How about I'm rasing a child?

How about I'm involved in the fight for a better investigation for 911?

How about I have a job and do my part to support the economy?

How about I love my wife and remain faithful and by her side no matter what?

How do any of these things I do not contribute to a better America?

Have you ever saved a life instead of taking one? I have. I gave the heimlick manuever (sp) that I was taught at work and saved a life. I dont need to have anything forced upon me to be a better person. It is my personal choice. Freedom is what America is all about.

You have the freedom to make the choice between educating yourself and living in a trailer and cooking meth. What you do with that choice makes you an American including the ones that make choices you don't like.

I bleed Red, White and Blue. I will go down with the ship if that is what it takes and call all others traitors.

But kiss my yankee ass if you think I'm going to war for someone elses choice

Star this post if you love America.

reply to post by dariousg


I think that considerably less than 100 million people graduate from high school each year.

So the question would be how does the government finance a program that would be mandatory for all high school graduates. That's a good question and off the top of my head I don't have a well thought out answer.

But you could think about the potential good from such a program before you shut your mind because of the costs. Remember, our government just spend 750,000,000 dollars on the war in Iraq which hasn't improved our infrastructure her at home.

This would be an opportunity to teach kids job and life skills that they might not have learned in the public school system. It would, hopefully, help people to appreciate their community and/or country a little more. It would also be a great equalizer if all kids had to perform service.

reply to post by Wildbob77

yes yes taking away a personal choice would teach them that personal choice is less important that doing what you are told.

That would in turn enable them to think for themselves and question authority less so that they can be manipulated easier.

reply to post by Wildbob77

People always seem to latch on to the negatives even if the intent and the outcome of an idea are absolutely positive. I'd say this is the biggest reason why we need something like compulsory national or military service.

The naysayers keep forgetting that, whether they like it or not, they are still members of one country. They don't think about the long-term consequences of the death of that country. The here and now is all that matters to them - the fast food, the video games, the sports.

This is how the dream will die. If the men who initiated and fought the Revolution thought this way, the US never would have been.

Strap on some reproductive organs, people. Stand for something other than your individual selfishness.