Who is the real killer in abortion? The parent or the politicians

There are a couple of things wrong with a lot of the typical statistics, before the legality of abortions there we still clean and safe methods to acquire them. The image of the back alley abortion, though it did happen at times (it still does too) it a misconception.

Most of the abortions that do happen are used a a method of birth control, not from a woman's life being in danger (socially or physically). They are treated as pregnancy prevention. When although it is after the fact of being pregnant.

The fact is there is a profound lack of education and resources to a woman seeking this, on average they do not know even their own suffering after the fact. They aren't offered true "choice". I agree with the pp who mentioned the ultrasound, although this is really more of an exception to the rule. I know (personally) girls who have come to this decision and have suffered massively both mental and physical trauma.

I've come to realize that the brunt of this is "The women's right to choose" is a farce. With the women who I've at least talked to there weren't options presented. It was just this one one they got, the abortion being sold as the catch all solution. There wasn't so much as a basic counseling session to at least figure out how they were after the fact (not good, one still is waking up hearing crying babies at night.)

Who is to blame?
Lack of education, society, women, men, so much over sexualized media...

A moment of pleasure can easily lead into a lifetime of pain.

TV doesn't always show that part though.

It really freaks me out how many people think they should be able to force a woman to go through with a pregnancy and force a child into existence. It is one thing to have the personal belief for yourself, but the fact that so many people think they should be able to force their beliefs on others is disturbing.

I'm against abortion not so much of I see it as murder, but more of I don't like people. If you aren't prepared to have kids and if you don't take precautions, then apparently you shouldn't getting it on.
Don't want a kid? There are many prevention methods, have one anyways? Your fault, you messed up and you deserve one of the two things the kid might help you with.
1) Make you suffer.
2) Make you wise up.
Either one is great.
If its rape or your going to die giving birth than sure, kill the little bugger.

[edit on 4-8-2008 by HarlequinChevalier]

Your question is faulty because there is no killing involved in abortion. It's just a medical practice, a late-term contraceptive. Fetuses aren't people.

reply to post by Anesthesia


While I appreciate your story, and are very glad your child turned out well, this does not mean that the child will turn out well in all cases - in fact, the probabilities are pretty poor that one would have a healthy, happy, well-formed, bright child.

And ESPECIALLY with x-rays!!! And tetracycline is nearly a given for malformation.

You didn't say what it was you were taking, but it is likely not something that has the documented reputation of x-rays and tet. That would be my bet.

Originally posted by HarlequinChevalier
I'm against abortion not so much of I see it as murder, but more of I don't like people. If you aren't prepared to have kids and if you don't take precautions, then apparently you shouldn't getting it on.
Don't want a kid? There are many prevention methods, have one anyways? Your fault, you messed up and you deserve one of the two things the kid might help you with.
1) Make you suffer.
2) Make you wise up.
Either one is great.
If its rape or your going to die giving birth than sure, kill the little bugger.

Oh, THERE ya go. Force a fetus to first breath to "punish" the mother (the father is usually long gone). But you have no perspective for the little one who will be neglected and abused, most likely. Nor for the society that must endure the results of a brutalized soul in its sociopathic or psychopathic behavior.

What an idiotic view.

Originally posted by deadbang
Life is about choices...we make them and then live with the consequences...

And if I decide to kill someone who has not threatened my life, the lives of my family, or the life of any other innocent peaceful person does that make me a murderer or am I just exercising my right to choose?

Making the choice to kill an innocent human being, especially a child, is murder whether that human is inside or outside the womb!


Edit begins here:

I just wanted to point out that unintentional killing, however, is not murder as far as I'm concerned. An example would be accidental death while driving or at work around heavy machinery.


[edit on 4-8-2008 by LiquidMirage]

Originally posted by LiquidMirage

Originally posted by deadbang
Life is about choices...we make them and then live with the consequences...

And if I decide to kill someone who has not threatened my life, the lives of my family, or the life of any other innocent peaceful person does that make me a murderer or am I just exercising my right to choose?

Making the choice to kill an innocent human being, especially a child, is murder whether that human is inside or outside the womb!

What is your definition of "human," and how did you come by that view? If it is not viable outside the mother, as someone above pointed out, it is a parasite, not a human. If you use the words of the Biblical God (or a number of other Gods), it is not human until first breath.

So is this something that you personally feel? And if so, do you feel it is your place in the Universe to impose this personal belief on the choices of others? And if so... Why?

Originally posted by HarlequinChevalier
I'm against abortion not so much of I see it as murder, but more of I don't like people. If you aren't prepared to have kids and if you don't take precautions, then apparently you shouldn't getting it on.
Don't want a kid? There are many prevention methods, have one anyways? Your fault, you messed up and you deserve one of the two things the kid might help you with.
1) Make you suffer.
2) Make you wise up.
Either one is great.
If its rape or your going to die giving birth than sure, kill the little bugger.

[edit on 4-8-2008 by HarlequinChevalier]

This is the most ridiculous argument one can give. it's like saying if you don't want salmonella, then you shouldn't be eating tomatoes and if you eat them, then you deserve to get it. Come on now...don't be retarded...people are gonna have sex PERIOD! And an individual can not and should not expect conception to take place every time intercourse take place; nor should they have to give birth is conception take place unintentionally and is unwanted. Anyone that expects that is a RELIGIOUS NUT...and religion has NO PLACE in POLITICS!

reply to post by HIFIGUY


I think the question to ask is: why do people have abortions in the first place?

Approximately 1.5 million U.S. women with unwanted pregnancies choose abortion each year. Most are under 25 years old and unmarried. Women who are separated from their husbands and poor women are more likely to choose abortion than other women. More than two-thirds of the women who seek abortions have jobs. Nearly one-third are in school. More than two-thirds plan to have a child in the future

We are mostly talking about young women in trouble. Who lack education, assistance, or family support.

Yes there are services that support your pregnancy while you give it up for adoption, but many don't want to have to face the social and emotional ramifications of such.

I bet many of the teens are forced by parents to have them. Many had unprotected sex because of boredom. Or both parents constantly working.

If you choose to carry the baby, you have assistance till the child is five and that is it.
But the arguement on the other hand is that the government shouldn't have to raise your children.

Find out why people are having abortions in the first place. Fix it, and then there won't be a need for abortions.

Make sure there are places for teens to keep busy and hang out after school.

Make sure everyone has access to birth control. And a clinic that is 25 miles away is not accessible for the poor.

Yes,there really doesnt need to be abortion unless its incredible cirumstances,the choice should always be there...but really...if a man cant put on a condom...or a woman take the birth control....there really is no hope for humanity anyway...but yah know what....Alcohol! i bet you there is some evidences that show alot of sex without protection is alcohol fueled...

Originally posted by nixie_nox
Make sure there are places for teens to keep busy and hang out after school.

This will never happen...Bottom line is this: Teens like to have sex! Teens have had sex since the dawn of mankind! Teens will continue to have sex! You can educate/scare many teens into chastity, but it sex will still happen. And abortion HAS to remain a viable option. There is no solution...WHY? Because there is NO PROBLEM!

Abortion is a medical procedure, not a social disease!

Originally posted by Lethil
Yes,there really doesnt need to be abortion unless its incredible cirumstances,the choice should always be there...but really...if a man cant put on a condom...or a woman take the birth control....there really is no hope for humanity anyway.

And you intend to give hope to humanity by limiting abortion? Good luck with that!

Originally posted by no name needed

Originally posted by Lethil
Yes,there really doesnt need to be abortion unless its incredible cirumstances,the choice should always be there...but really...if a man cant put on a condom...or a woman take the birth control....there really is no hope for humanity anyway.

And you intend to give hope to humanity by limiting abortion? Good luck with that!

Emmm no? Where you get that idea from? Abortion should always be there as a choice...in the post you quoted i was just demonstrating how outrageous it is people need to get them anyway, in your usual circumstances before sex you either wear a condom or the woman takes birth control...its not rocket science...thats why i said Alcohol...i think aloclhol is a very large contributor to unwanted pregnancy...here in uk i can say it is anyway..

reply to post by Lethil


Well, of course alcohol play a role...so does lack of education, so does rebellion, so does horniness, so does poverty, so does _____ (fill it in w/whatever your excuse is). Not wearing a condom and not taking birth control does not = hopelessness for humanity. Where do you even begin to develop such an absurd statement?

As as side note: My wife and I do not use condoms nor birth control pills...or any other method of BC; however, we do not want to get pregnant! And, If we were to get pregnant, then we WILL be getting an abortion!

[edit on 4-8-2008 by no name needed]

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Well, I can see I am in the minority, so I expect flack on this... I wondered about the abortion thing and struggled as I needed a point of reference. After much thinking, I chose the words of the Biblical God to the Hebrews for when the soul enters the body.

That is "at first breath."

Given that, the answer to the question posed is "neither." Unless farmers are "killers" for slaughtering cattle and swine.

And I want to ask of those of you who are so anti-abortion what you would do in this situation:

You have broken your pelvis, say, and go in for an x-ray at 6 months. Also, you have come down with bronchitis and are prescribed tetracycline.

Now x-rays are seriously bad for a developing fetus, and tetracycline is known to cause serious birth defects ala thalidomide.

Shortly after you have had your x-ray and are nearly done with your 10 day prescription of tetracycline, you are told you are 8 weeks pregnant.

What do you choose to do?

[edit on 8/3/2008 by Amaterasu]

totally agree, alot of these anti- abortionist only think of healthy pregnacies they dont count the ones where the woman or fetous is damaged.
yes abortion shouldnt be a means of contraception but sometimes abortion is needed.
what about families that are to poor to feed the children they have or the rape victims.
i dont see any woman who has an abortion is a murderer and to say such is disgraceful.

and yes im waiting for the grilling to but i dont care

reply to post by Annee


When it comes to a debate in murder I would say the right to speak out is needed. I could see if this was the choice to pick a red car or a blue car, or mac n' cheese over a corn dog sure, don't shove your opinion down my throat. But A lot of people feel these are not "parasites" and are sparks of life.

For those of us who feel this is out right murder, we are not going to sit on our hands and shut up. It's sick. Oh so it has a cord in it's stomach? So what. It thinks. Eats. Has a soul if you believe in that kind of thing.

The argument of "pro-choice" and the right to choose at all is a moot point. Because to make this point your saying I have a right to choose to get on a bus and decapitate someone and eat there flesh!!! Right to choose right? Wrong. When it's in regards to a life and considering another being whether it be human, fetus, or animal. You lose your 100% right to choose. you must now consider that this is another living creature with rights of it's own. And an inability to speak or defend itself is not an appropriate defense at all for whoever wants to go there. My dog can't talk but he doesn't want to die, promise you that.

By your standards your saying that if my wife is in labor, a doctor while removing the baby from her vagina, can shove a knife into the top of his head before he takes his first breath and the cord is cut, and not be charged with a crime? Some of you are just down right insane. You need to re-think your standards.

And just an FYI. People get charged for murder when they cause death to fetuses of pregnant woman. How the hell can you make that possible but allow a person to willingly kill there own?

What a sick system we are brainwashed into. Sex is not for fun you ignorant pies. It's to produce the fruit of the tree. If you can't handle this responsibility then TOUGH. Time to grow up. If the child has a hard life then he has a hard life, he deserves the chance to make it just as your father did and you did.

This isn't a religious debate. It's a humanitarian debate, about killing a life.

Another misguided argument that anti-abortion advocates use is this: The unwanted fetus deserves a voice and we are here to give it.

Well, I'll tell you what...are you fetus mind readers? I imagine the fetus would not want to be born to parents that don't want it...and it surely doesn't want to be born the ward of the state! I dare to wager that the unwanted fetus's voice says "ABORT ME, PLEASE"

The real issue here should be WHY people are all interested in being up in someone else's business. What compells you to worry about what others are doing? I submit to you this challenge: When you live a perfect "Sin Free" life, then go nosing around and lead by example; however, you should be ashamed to select a "sin" and start preaching when you are a "sinner" yourself.

[edit on 4-8-2008 by no name needed]

[edit on 4-8-2008 by no name needed]

I/m not for abortions and its quite easy to say this, i am a man.
on the other hand ,I feel it is the right of the people who are suppose to be free,
it is up to them to choose what is good for them,not what a Religious person chooses for them.
same for drugs ,I believe what gives me the moral authority to intervene, if a person wants to smoke pot I really don.t care if he chokes on it.
It isn't my affair , Why is there decay all around and so much money is spent on
drug prevention , nothing changes only gets worse ,stop the drug war let them choke on the stuff . stop spending tax money on a problem that will never get
better. more freedom to choose is better In my opinion,heck tax the stuff and turn a negative tax cash flow into a positive one. Abortions will not stop just like drugs will not stop being taken,just like prostitution will never end.
Stop wasting tax money trying to stop what will never stop.
Stop mandating what other people can and can not do. Morality is in the gutter today, gangs roam the hood.eliminate most of it ,legalize it all. charge a tax on it all and bankroll some projects with the proceeds .Perhaps better educations with prevention centers in schools would be a good start ,and would go a long way to changing the degradation of moral fiber in America.

I feel so sorry for some of you, I truly do. I don't mean to come off a jack*** here but you are ignorant. You have never felt the kick of a fetus, never heard it's racing heartbeat, or watched one move around in an ultrasound. It is alive believe me.

No name needed I hope something changes in you before you commit such an act. I challenge you to go into a pregnancy ward with your GF and watch an ultrasound. I don't think you would feel the same as you do right now. At least I hope not.