Ask a Mason

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: TerryDon79

Damnit. I forgot about the fabric rolls of York minister.

They are dated to 1350-1360.

(Can't believe I forgot about them)

okay now we getting somewhere, i just need a link between..

a reply to: AldarKose

You could also look into sculptores lapidum liberorum. It's in Latin and dated to 1212. It only mentions freemasonry though.

ETA: You can just google the titles I've given you, but here's a quick LINK

a reply to: AldarKose

The problem with linking things when it comes to freemasonry is you can get some very biased articles (from both ends).

Best way is the old fashioned way. Books and paper.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: TerryDon79

Damnit. I forgot about the fabric rolls of York minister.

They are dated to 1350-1360.

(Can't believe I forgot about them)

I would be very careful about making this to a reference..

The Rose is visible in egypt.. But it doesnt verify freemasonry..

a reply to: AldarKose

Care to elaborate what you're implying?

a reply to: TerryDon79

There is a certain problem, the American freemasonry should be cut off from the European freemasonry.. thats my personal standpoint.. Only thing im interested in is actually, the tool box and the reference to it...

originally posted by: AldarKose
a reply to: TerryDon79

There is a certain problem, the American freemasonry should be cut off from the European freemasonry.. thats my personal standpoint.. Only thing im interested in is actually, the tool box and the reference to it...

And your reason for cutting off something that originates from another?

I've already given you names of documents. You should really read them.

a reply to: TerryDon79

Next to my table i have a book, its over 2000 years, next to it.. i have a reference book which is even older.. But if i go out a couple of hundred meters, i have monuments that predates the both..

And in my bookshelf i have the bible..

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: AldarKose
a reply to: TerryDon79

There is a certain problem, the American freemasonry should be cut off from the European freemasonry.. thats my personal standpoint.. Only thing im interested in is actually, the tool box and the reference to it...

And your reason for cutting off something that originates from another?

I've already given you names of documents. You should really read them.

Im gonna get them and get back to you..

originally posted by: AldarKose
a reply to: TerryDon79

Next to my table i have a book, its over 2000 years, next to it.. i have a reference book which is even older.. But if i go out a couple of hundred meters, i have monuments that predates the both..

And in my bookshelf i have the bible..

I don't understand what this has to do with anything.

Your responses and requests seem very obscure. Could you (in simple terms) explain exactly what you're after?

a reply to: TerryDon79

Well its about really, withholding the true nature of the purpose of freemasonry.. Cause society already has enough fiction.. Its important to keep it "only" to fact and avoid every story, cause it needs to be true to its nature..

If it cant rely on those basic fundaments, well it doesnt fills its purpose and becomes a weird cult with its own stories..

That is what im trying to tell August, only what is true.. leave everything else out.. If american freemasonry cant do that, it has no purpose nor function.. It does more harm than good..

a reply to: AldarKose

So what is untrue about freemasonry? It's a club with secrets, doesn't make those secrets nefarious.

The teachings of freemasonry are spiritual. Surely that comes under freedom of religion?

Something you also seem to forget. An American or European Freemason can visit lodges in other countries because they're governed by the same body.

So if you want to get rid of American freemasonry you would have to get rid of all freemasonry. That would be against an individuals right to learn about their own spirituality.

a reply to: TerryDon79

American freemasonry is philosophical..
Some lodges have a core to observation..
If its spiritual, keep it spiritual, within the spirituality, its a very simple thing..

Albert Pike: Morals and dogmas, its perfect.. Dont claim something as a fact, without proper education.. when it really is about living within the ideals of being human..

Anything taught, preached on the outside of this, is wrong.. The state of the US has its cultural dogma, if you are without a proper education and institution and preach a message.. You really become an "enemy of the state" just like the Chinese government sees the Buddhism when preaching outside the confined compound of its temple.. Or any other state.. What you see as the "truth" is subjective, just like any other dogma or moral practice..

The reason you swear on the bible, is cause you take the creed of aryanism, a scientific approach.. There are three, Nicene, Apostle and Aryanism.. Yours is the latter.. Thats why its important to be a Christian, like someone posted before asking, why, they wont let us in, even though we are masons..
Understand the core, then maybe there is something to actually build upon..

a reply to: AldarKose

Wow. I read that 4 times and can't understand your point.

I'll try breaking it down anyway.

What "core" are you referring to?

What does the cultural dogma of America have to do with freemasonry?

What's your problem with morals and dogma? Is it just that a single Freemason wrote it?

Can you explain about the enemy of the state thing? I don't see any connection with freemasonry there.

Not all Freemasons swear on a bible. You don't have to be Christian to be a Freemason. You don't even have to follow any recognised religion as long as you believe in a supreme/creator being.

ETA: What does any of this have to do with the origins of freemasonry? (Which is what you were asking about)

a reply to: TerryDon79

If you teach your kid one thing, and another family teaches your kid something you think is not right... Will you let you kid visit them again?

The morals and dogmas were written a long time ago, everything needs an update.. Just takes a good writer..

The supreme being isnt that a religious aspect? or did freemasonry invent that?

The origin of your freemasonry is the 19th century, the one in Europe is older and holds freemasonry to its true core.. but it doesnt make freemasonry older than 1717.. Rosecrucians are from the 17th century..

The symbolic is old, the rose is probably 10kya, i do know where it originates.. But it wasnt always a rose.. Origin of masons, well in egypt.. And that is where the rose originates from..

But that does not make your freemasonry older than 18th century..

Edit: It became a rose when they moved north..

dp

a reply to: AldarKose

I already showed you it is hundreds of years older than 1717. 1717 is just when the first grand lodge was formed. Try reading the books and documents I told you about before making bold, false statements.

So what is getting taught in freemasonry that is taught differently eleewhere?

You also don't understand that it's less about spiritual teaching and more about spiritual learning.

a reply to: TerryDon79

If there was no name to certain rituals and the toolbox before the 18th century, how is it possible that your order is older?

The philosophy is old, its very old.. I believe its about 5000 years old.. But its like saying Ipad was invented in the 90s cause i saw it on star trek..

The philosophy and the practicing rituals are not the same.. But yet you claim them to be the same, i have books, that makes it impossible if you dont have a timemachine.. Its illogical

a reply to: AldarKose

The Freemason order (and earlier usage of the word masons) has been documented and referenced since 1212.

Just to use the rose to prove the point of freemasonry is pointless as it has been used before freemasonry was founded. That's why I haven't referenced the rose once.

I don't quite understand your point of books and time machines though. Looks like the ramblings of a mad man.

a reply to: TerryDon79

Jacobs ladder all the 72 steps.. Lesser keys 72, if it didnt have a reference until it came in a book.. Did it exist? sufism 72 virgins, maybe i can cross reference freemasonry till the 7th century? How about King Solomon ? Naaah, im gonna say you guys are from around the 18th 19th century.. Or you make bold claims.. which no actual facts than stories..

Important you guys keep up to rules and boundaries..