Louisiana About to Pass Law to Teach Creationism!!

reply to post by saturnine_sweet


You are right, there are several different versions of creation from various cultures around the world. This post demonstrates just a few that exist. The problem is that there is only one form of creationism that is receiving support to become taught in public schools, and that is the biblical account.

reply to post by Mr Mxyztplk


So your point is, that as an agnostic you cannot believe in any beginning? I asked you about a non-religious view of the start of the universe, and your reply was that you have none because you don't believe in God?

And the bible view, as the other Stardust put it, is actually accepted by all THREE of the major world religions. It is NOT just the CHRISTIAN view.

[edit on 20-6-2008 by jasonjnelson]

reply to post by maria_stardust


well, but i don't see anywhere in the original post anything about it being biblical. I see the word creationism. That could mean any religion. And understand, the proponents of evolution term any opposition as creationism, including ID. Its rather like how Muslims traditionally call everyone else infidels, or how Christians traditionally have branded everyone else as pagans or heathens. In any case, since biblical beliefs were not referenced in the OP, I have addressed creationism as a whole.

Coming back to the point...education should be strictly about the observable and factual, in pre-university settings. Hard science, mathematics, and art. Opinion has no place in compulsory education, because it becomes compulsory indoctrination, and we all know where that leads. (And a look around at what's happening in the US can show us where it is leading for us, too.)

reply to post by All Of You


What is the federal government involved in schools for anyway? This is a state to state issue. That is what the founders intended. And please show me where, in the Constitution, that there is a removal of all religious thought from the state? Seriously, cite it, don't just throw out a misquote like "separation of Church and State NYAH NYUH!

Originally posted by jasonjnelson
So your point is, that as an agnostic you cannot believe in any beginning?

no my point is that
A: I don't know how it began, as in what if anything preceded the big bag.
B: religion doesn't belong in the science class.

And the bible view, as the other Stardust put it, is actually accepted by all THREE of the major world religions. It is NOT just the CHRISTIAN view.

so what? atheists, Wiccans, Buddhists, Hindus and many more all beg to differ

reply to post by Mr Mxyztplk


Atheism is not a religious belief, and ID is not necessarily so...

And thank you for at least admitting that you have no idea whatsoever about our creation.
It gives me hope that all science junkies are not hopeless and might keep an open mind.

PREDICTION:

Within 100 years of THIS point in time, every person who reads this will know FOR SURE what the real answer is, in an up close and personal sort of way. I GUARANTEE IT! (no matter what you believe, or who is right, trust me)

Originally posted by jasonjnelson
And the bible view, as the other Stardust put it, is actually accepted by all THREE of the major world religions. It is NOT just the CHRISTIAN view.

The point is it is still a religious view. Religion has no business in a public classroom setting.

Religion falls under personal belief systems. What right does anyone have to proselytize to another parent's children without that parent's consent?

For example, would a Mormon appreciate a Catholic preaching to their child? Or, how about a Muslim to a Protestant? Dare we forget the hostility between the Irish Protestants and Catholics.

You can be dismissive of the ideology behind the separation of church and state, but it exists for a reason.

reply to post by maria_stardust


Cite this "separation" that you speak of. And be careful to read it through before you start to respond. I am off to work, but I will definitely respond to you when I get home. That is, if you can do this without really swallowing your foot. (REALLY READ what you are going to type here)

Thanks, HAND!

so what? atheists, Wiccans, Buddhists, Hindus and many more all beg to differ

I beg to differ too. After studying all three major religions I formed the opinion that Jews, Christians, and Muslims are the same. The only differences being the manner of worship and customs observed by the faithful. They all share the same deity, and most of the same beliefs. (Although as far as holy books go the Koran is, in my opinion, the most beautiful of the three.) Just because the monotheistic religions make up the lion's share of the world's religious people doesn't mean their mythology should be taught above others.

reply to post by maria_stardust


but the teaching of evolution is the teaching of a personal belief system. Just because it is state sanctioned and scientist approved doesnt change that. As stated before, its a belief in the assumptions of scientists and their naturalistic philosophies. It has no place, either.

Originally posted by jasonjnelson
Seriously, cite it, don't just throw out a misquote like "separation of Church and State NYAH NYUH!

NYAH NYUH... Nice schoolyard taunt tactic. That little "HAND" thing was cute, too. Makes for serious and civilized debate.

Tell you what, first you explain as to why a religious belief ought to be taught to other parents children without their express consent in a public classroom setting.

Better yet, why should religious belief be allowed into the public school system at all?

Because, after all this is what it comes down to.

Isn't Louisiana one of the states doing the most poor in math and science? Figures... I'm rather glad, I'm no where near the bible belt. And while I don't have any quarrels with people believing in creationism as it is ...the schools will be forced to introduce all forms of creationist ideologies from all religions. Hopefully, afterwards, the ACLU will get on their backs for refusing to teach other creationist stories, from other religions that are not Christian...so forth..anyway, it will be amusing

One of the dangers of teaching creationism in the public school system is that there are certain educators who will exploit their positions and preach not teach.

Case in point:
Science teacher dissed evolution and taught creationism

A Mount Vernon teacher undermined science instruction in the public school district by discrediting evolution in his classroom and focusing on creationism and intelligent design, an investigation has found.

Eighth-graders who were taught by John Freshwater frequently had to be re-taught in high school what they were supposed to have learned in Freshwater's class, according to outside investigators hired by the district.

As if that weren't enough, this teacher had the audacity to actually burn crosses onto several students arms. That is flat out child abuse. There is a picture of a student's burnt arm that accompanies the story.

This incident is also being discussed here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Talk about one sick puppy!

reply to post by laiguana


I agree, this is just trying to force the foot through the door to start bringing religion as part of the curriculum.

You can not teach creationism without the religious implications. I guess in a nation with such poor grades when it comes to education this what students need, bible classes.

reply to post by maria_stardust


So rather than accept my challenge, you choose instead to mock me? The school yard taunts are a reference, I'm assuming, to a rather childish and simplistic way of arguing. One that you actually are accepting when you mock my have a nice day. Would you rather I act like you?

I guess you have proven yourself unworthy of debate, seeing as you can't even validate th point you want me to argue. Don't bother answering this, I PROMISE I won't read what all of these arguments eventually become. And referencing some Nut job will only get me to point out all the other NON-religious sickos in our school systems. A system you want to give more power to.

Creationism is not the teaching of religion. Saying that teaching it implies teaching religion is the same as teaching science = agnostic teaching.

The truth is, you are scared by my beliefs, and want to change MY children.

Science INCORPORATES all of God's magesty. You just can't see the forest while looking at your tree.

And let's not lump me into the same category as 16th century windbags who used religion to promote control.

I only believe in Love.

HAND (or not)

reply to post by eric52081


Thanks for the heads up. First the pay raise and now this/ I've sent out e mails and made postings in N.O.(NOLA.COM) area chatrooms with the link you provided.

Originally posted by dbates

Originally posted by maria_stardust
the issue of the seperation of church and state.

Of course you must realize that this "issue" isn't actually mentioned in any law or in the U.S. Constitution. The Constitution only states that Congress can't make laws to restrict religion. Look hard at the Constitution and you won't find the word "seperation" in there anywhere.

True indeed, the seperation is a elite masonic law put in place to seperate us from belief and leave us as shells ignorant in our life. Creationism and evolution are indeed the same but science leaves out glaring facts and twists the truth to suit their needs of power over others.

GOD or Galaxy of Duality is truth. At center of our GOD is a massive black hole in which a state of constant time exists. On one side of our GOD is a feminine vortex sucking all matter and spewing it out a giant phalic on the other side. In a jet of plasma matter swirls back to and around center according to its frequency. Its a gigantic circuit of charged particles that fuel everything and create everything. The sun is electricly charged negative and when these particles in space contact the sun we get a huge constant electric shock effect not fusion. That is why you see sun spots where the core is cold and the surface is hot but the corona is hottest. In time the side that GOD is looking at will fill completely and than boom another big bang.

The luciferian aliens know this and used the knowledge to try and make us slaves to ourselves and them. For the luciferians are fear but we can take that fear and through choice we can grow stronger in belief/spirit. Balance your body and mind with the knowledge of good and evil and take from the tree of life.

Zero point energy is blasphemy against balance and electricty. Anyone who's studied electricity knows its a lack of electrons that drive a circuit's current and to create energy from nothing is improbable.

What everyone needs to learn for themselves is the truth stated from all religions about alien visitors followed by a miraculous geneticly abnormal birth from GOD. I say shinanagins on the luciferians pretending to be GOD. Its a good thing they cant see love like we do, otherwise wed never be able to get the counter-intelligence out to the masses.

Never put yourself above anyone else for we are all the same and to forgive is divine. The aliens want us divided through pride of who is right about life and religion. So we should follow in the footsteps of god and give our pride a toss and let the feminine side of us rule. Maybe then we can finally be a planet free from the four horsemen's tyrany. Now if we can just get the lucferian angels to repent and throw themselves through GODS' feminine sided time loop...

Look, honestly what the hell does it matter. I could have been taught that green spiders laid eggs and we hatched from them............I still would have made my OWN decisions as I grew up. Honestly, I was amazed to learn that Louisiana had schools.

Originally posted by maria_stardust
reply to post by dbates

 

Quite true, nor did I imply such. However, the concept of the separation of church and state has grounds for merit. Just as the government has no business meddling in religious affairs, the same should hold true in regards to mixing religious doctrine into a secular government. In this case public schools.

If a certain segment of the Christian community wishes to expose their children to creationism, that's their right. However, they should not have the right to expose it to children other than their own.

Why should my tax dollars go to fund the teaching of a religious belief in public schools?

I would think that the teaching creationism, which claims the world was created in literally six days, in conjunction with evolution, which states millions of years and actually is validated by science, would only serve to confuse young and impressionable minds.

That's why it's best that these decisions be left to the individual school boards and not the federal government. If you don't agree with the curriculum as a parent, you're free to withdraw your child from that school or move. If you feel that strongly about it, then that's where the beauty of Democracy comes in - you are able to run for the school board next election season.