We Weren't Designed To Eat Meat, Here Is Proof

Maybe we would salivate if we were not taught that raw meat could kill us? Do you think your average bob cat would salivate when a bear approached? I don't think so.

Originally posted by Shar_Chi
I bet dolphins are even tastier, fancy a bite? How about a slice of human?
Ethics come into it at some point, where you have to decide what is right or wrong to eat based on your personal morals. Flavour isn't the final decider, you are.

Yes and no, flavour is the final decided for most things, i don't eat beef because in all truth i don't like the taste much and it's very unhealthy. Not eating dolphins, well i don't do that because they're already kind of low on the numbers and they seem quite smart and it seems wrong to eat a smart animal. It's why i also avoid chimp meat

As for humans, well i think it's illegal to eat them isn't it? Desecratinga body or some such thing, however the major reason not to eat them is because it's bred into us. Most species are not carnivorous unless pushed into an extreme situation, and then even humans are willing o eat their own.

Yes the final deciding factor for some thigns is ourselves, but my arguement is i eat to be healthy and that must include meat, especially when i used to be under heavy physical training. I can tell you now that i tried vegetarianisn as an experiment and i felt extremely tired. I was under heavy physical labour at the time, i followed all the guides and still felt exhausted.

Introducing meat back into my diet fixed the problem in less than 3 days.

Originally posted by Shar_Chi

Originally posted by Mailman
Why would beef,pork,chicken have so much flavor?
why do we have this luxury of being able to enjoy such a juicy succulent flavor thats is pork and beef fat. yes the fat is the most tasty part.

I bet dolphins are even tastier, fancy a bite? How about a slice of human?
Ethics come into it at some point, where you have to decide what is right or wrong to eat based on your personal morals. Flavour isn't the final decider, you are.

I would also agree that flavor is not the deciding factor but survival should be.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by Shar_Chi
I bet dolphins are even tastier, fancy a bite? How about a slice of human?
Ethics come into it at some point, where you have to decide what is right or wrong to eat based on your personal morals. Flavour isn't the final decider, you are.

Yes and no, flavour is the final decided for most things, i don't eat beef because in all truth i don't like the taste much and it's very unhealthy. Not eating dolphins, well i don't do that because they're already kind of low on the numbers and they seem quite smart and it seems wrong to eat a smart animal. It's why i also avoid chimp meat

As for humans, well i think it's illegal to eat them isn't it? Desecratinga body or some such thing, however the major reason not to eat them is because it's bred into us. Most species are not carnivorous unless pushed into an extreme situation, and then even humans are willing o eat their own.

Yes the final deciding factor for some thigns is ourselves, but my arguement is i eat to be healthy and that must include meat, especially when i used to be under heavy physical training. I can tell you now that i tried vegetarianisn as an experiment and i felt extremely tired. I was under heavy physical labour at the time, i followed all the guides and still felt exhausted.

Introducing meat back into my diet fixed the problem in less than 3 days.

I've run into the same problem although my diet was a bit different. I didn't go completely vegan but made veggies and fruits a primary and kept my diet EXTREMELY low fat. My testosterone levels dropped significantly on the diet, my strength dropped noticably and my joints started hurting. yes I had them tested and they dropped in half over a 12 week period. I increased my fat intake and meat intake and presto my hormone levels went right back up to NORMAL levels.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by jfj123]

reply to post by jfj123

Organic extra virgin olive oil for the joints my friend, I have a twist of lemon in mine

Originally posted by Shar_Chi
reply to post by jfj123

 

Organic extra virgin olive oil for the joints my friend, I have a twist of lemon in mine

My problems cleared up once I increased fat in my diet and ate more appropriate amounts of meat. Unfortunately I've seen no evidence that olive oil of any kind lubricates joints.

Originally posted by jfj123
Unfortunately I've seen no evidence that olive oil of any kind lubricates joints.

Awww you breaka the Don's heart

Originally posted by Shar_Chi

Originally posted by jfj123
Unfortunately I've seen no evidence that olive oil of any kind lubricates joints.

Awww you breaka the Don's heart

Actually I think over eating broke the Don's heart

reply to post by jfj123


Your comments on hormone levels are well made, fats and animal motabolites are some of the primary components in creating certain hormones. Testosterone is of course one of the big players in the male body, and i will say that when i tried going vegetarian for a little while, i noticed a big loss in explosive muscle power. Slow contraction was also reduced but it's the explosive actions i was noticing limits on most. After a short session of intense sparring i was exhausted, absolutely on the floor. In another session whilst ona meat friendly diet, i was able to do the full session and wasn't majorly out of breath and so started another session.

To me the fact i could go longer on meat is down to a mix of testosterone, adrenaline and creatine, meat helps provide the building blocks for all of these thigns, creatine of course being in the meat itself. I could train longer which will lead to more health (note i wasn't overtraining), so meat seems like it is needed for heavy, intense activity.

Whislt you might be able to scale a tall mountain as a veggie, you'll be able to scale it as a meat eater and then carry on running, there is the difference to me.

Originally posted by Johnmike
Then where would we get Vitamin B12 from?

Vegan diets are notoriously deficient. You can generally be healthy if you eat eggs and drink milk, but that's about it.

You can get B12 from other foods like in England we have Vecon which is like marmite which also contains B12. Although I do eat some meat. I have many friends who say they get all the vitamins that they would get from meat. From other ways.. Nuts ect..

Hmm, I must remember to look under the bed for all my deficiencies, after 10 years of vego diet without any supplements they gotta be around here somewhere right?

Originally posted by swamp123
You can get B12 from other foods like in England we have Vecon which is like marmite which also contains B12. Although I do eat some meat. I have many friends who say they get all the vitamins that they would get from meat. From other ways.. Nuts ect..

Yeah, it's not so bad if you're smart about it today because they put vitamins in everything. I'm just talking about naturally, as in, if humans didn't fortify foods with vitamins.

reply to post by swamp123


Err no i'm sorry, we were discussing a natural diet, not genetically modified yeast. That is where veganism and vegetarianism fall down in the evolutionary ideal. Also it doesn't address the other issues of bodybuilding needs, or any severely physical activity.

i personally mainly eat vegetarian , mostly cow, beef stew is my favorite vegetarian dinner out of them all, mmmm tasty

reply to post by Shar_Chi


Sorry are you talking vegetarian or vegan? Vegetarians are fine becuase they can consme eggs, milk, cheese etc, they will get all their B12. Vegans are another matter and although many claim they're fine they are usually consuming fortified foods, breakfast cereals being a key to it all. they also supplement and if they don't they are actually medically deficient.

B12 is mostly an animal based product, the only other source is soil bacteria and if you want to grab handfuls of soil then go for it. My other problems are listed above due to my own, personal experience or heavy physical activity.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I've been vegan for two years with no noticeable deficiencies. I'm a strong climber, ripped, and have no chronic/consistent pain whatsoever. Can't just be Shar_Chi and myself, can it, doctor?

reply to post by DeadFlagBlues


Skipping over your whole condesending nature, i will again state that you havn't been under heavy physical contraints. Climbing, whilst physical is not heavy, oh and yes i've done that myself, i love climbing. Climbing, whilst difficult isn't the kind of heavy labour i'm going over. Why don't you go over the thread and fidn the bodybuilder who is vegan and no where near the size of meat eating bodybuilders.

Have you ever had your blood levels tested to see your B12 levels btw? I would be interested to see the results, i would also be interested to see if your B12 sources were fortified. Many vegans don't quite realise that.

Oh and again you overlook the idea of surviving and optimal health. You can survive on potatoes for 12 years if you choose to, but you wn't be at your optimal health, the human body is amazing in it's coping mechanisms.

[edit on 26-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply to post by Danger Girl


if this was soo then why do our front and back teeth have points?
our insicors are meant to rip meat not to chew on leaves

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Weird.. I didn't realize I was dying when I was working on a conduit and wire pulling crew when I was 20. Lifting 140 pound, 10' pieces of conduit, and pulling 750 through said conduit. It must have been sheer luck that I didn't die doing that 7 days a week, for 9 months straight. I also must have been very lucky in that I am now a wilderness guide and pulled a 71 mile trip with a 77 pound bag on.



Call me lucky....

reply to post by DeadFlagBlues


Again i will state the human body is amazing, it can cope with all sorts of things. If you ever saw the program "bodyshock" you may have seent he girl whi lived off of nothing but potatoe and bread for nearly 11 years.

I will again ask if you have ever had your B12 levels tested? Also have you ever consumed any fortified foods? It's very common that even vegans are unaware as to which cereals are fortified. The other day i picked up a plain bran flake serial in the supermarket, it had no added sugar, no artifical ingredients and yet was fortified with certain vitamins and minerals. The mains onles being the B vitamin group and Iron.

Have you also had your hormone levels checked? I have (they're normal btw) but have you? I ask that out of sheer curiosity becuase most vegans will have reduced levels of testosterone (if male) and other hormones. I point above to my case of showing marked difference under a vegetarian diet, or are you saying that's not true as well?

Edit

I decided to go looking for vegan biased studies about B12, and guess what i found. A study, backed by a vegan soceity, totally dedicated to teh vegan belief saying that B12 isn't supported bya vegan diet.

www.vegansociety.com...

* eat fortified foods two or three times a day to get at least three micrograms (µg or mcg) of B12 a day or

*take one B12 supplement daily providing at least 10 micrograms or

*take a weekly B12 supplement providing at least 2000 micrograms.

No doubt even this won't be proof enough for you that a vegan diet is one that isn't optimal without supplementation or fortified foods. I should again point out this is from a vegan society.


[edit on 26-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]