American 'Ultra Black' Reversed Engineered Projects

reply to post by sherpa


Yes We walk in similar interest circles it seems.

As far as I can tell tt all stems from the book. People picked it up and ran with it - its an aviation Urban Legend (unlike some things!).

Even Janes have distanced themselved from it, because although he worked (still works?) for them it's all theoretics and no substance.


reply to post by jkrog08


Ties to Lockheed with this stuff come from the Tier-3 (see the similarity) Darkstar project, which was black, and has since been cancelled.

Darkstar

TR3 is a bastardisation of Tier 3.

Be careful. People run a long way with a little information, especially on the internet, where any one can claim to be, and know, anything

I doubt there is an Ultra Black...i could just say there is an Ultra Ultra Black,Black ops are probably just split up into various sectors,plus i heard most presidents dont even know it exists..only a select few.How do they get the money if not even Presidents know about them? Maybe the pentagon losing 3 trillion $ went somewhat towards helping..

reply to post by jkrog08


I have seen you've been taking some flak for this.. Jim Sparks actually talks about his experience and something similar to top level or "ultra black" projects as you put it..
I just think no one can know for sure.. unless they believe in a personal experience they've had with it and believe what they experienced.. im saying how would anyone know when the whole topic is debatable at best unless directly involved?
"I don't know if its true or not.. just wanted to put it out there for your own interpretation" I took as you didnt 100% believe it.. just figured we'd enjoy hearing about it... Since I wont ever know for sure unless I somehow get involved in flying or designing/building some crazy aircrafts
I will just enjoy what I read...

my opinion anyways...

reply to post by GrOuNd_ZeRo

I've had an independant source in the Airforce tell me that the TR-3B Astra is real and that it is the real designation, my source is part of Space Command and flies the F-16C Block 30.

With respect that does not scan, why would Space Command be flying F-16s when their area of operations is missiles and satellites.

Looking at the website I have found no reference to terrestrial flight operations and I can't see why flying conventional aircraft would be a secret.

www.afspc.af.mil...

I also know that 1st Special Forces Detachment Delta uses TR-3B's for deep black operations which I have been involved in and i'm still suffering from the consequences of that, this was before I joined the US Army.

But this is a ground operations command.

www.specialoperations.com...

So when you say uses do you mean transported by, if this was the case then surely there would be sightings around their area of deployment.

This is all academic of course since the TR3-b has to be proven to exist first before you can start assigning roles to it.

edit sp and links



[edit on 8-6-2008 by sherpa]

Where could they get the money?
Well, 3 trillion would help, a bit, but I'm guessin that most of the money comes from patents released from various 'grey' projects, arms dealing, drug running maybe even pharmaceuticals, then you have the syphoning of alloted funds, skim a bit off the top and delegate this rest to the various sub departments, money is bound to be 'lost' in red tape.

Where could they get the pilots?
Best guess I'd have would be the USAF, they've had their own 'Space program' for decades now, so their pilots could be more than competent dealing with terrestrial (super/hypersonic?) and non terrestrial (sub/superluminal?) craft, testing or not.

Black vs 'Ultra' Black
I agree with a few people on here, what you consider to be 'ultra' black, I would myself consider to be black, maybe even a dark grey (lol). The TR's or the Aurora project, considering the possibilites, wouldn't be that high up, consider off world bases, Fleets of FTL craft, moon bases, time travel, teleportation, I'd consider these 'Ultra' black, these are the ones they have NO intention of releasing. Anti-gravity (hate that term) or gravity manipulation would be an outright certainty compared to these more 'far-fetched', for some, ideas.

Mike Singh has a good Thread on the secret space program, some good material to back up his ideas and speculation. As for Nick Cook's book, hunt for zero point as being all theoretical, he visits the museum of the scientist who invented alot of the 'Nazi' UFO's(Schoberger?), ran by his grandsom I think, haven't read it in a while, some of his diaries are still there showing his work, but alot were taken shortly after the war aswell as given by him before leaving America, to return to Germany, that's some good evidence there due to the scacity of it in this area.

As for if any of this stuff exists, I'll say what I always say, it's possible, the military is AT LEAST 50 years ahead of mainstream (my guess would be 100-200 years, but...), if they are announcing robotic suits, gravity manipulation or energy weaponry as 'breakthrough' technologies in the mainstream, what is the current state of these technologies in the MIC?

good thread, flagged.

thanks. EMM

I think Ive heard it said before that the government/military is about 40 years ahead of mainstream technology. Either way, I would say shooting for 200 years is probably grandiose.

About the F-19 story....
This is completely unqualifiable, (if thats a word)but I thought I would share the story. If you think its BS, thats up to you, I cant defend it since it doesnt have sources. This is just the way I heard it, years ago.

Someone higher up the eschelon decided they wanted to keep paperwork to a minimum on the new Stealth Fighter. To do so, they made it so the Aircraft doesnt exist. To do so, they had to change their classification of it to UNCLASSIFIED. Reasoning, if it didnt exist, it didnt need a top Secret clearance.
So some technician walked out with the plans, and sold them to Testors, who made a model of it, retailing for $19.99. To embelish the story even further, I heard that technician has since been killed.

I know this story is probably BS, but its what I heard. Take it as you like it, but dont put too much faith in it. I thought about qulaifying this story with who I heard it from, but like I said, treat it as a story.
Honestly, to me, its always been entertainment value. Hell, if I tell the story now, I usually add a hook on the end of the technicians hand.

BTW,thanks Neformore, for the new line in my sig. Sums up ATS very nicely these days.

reply to post by neformore


I would agree with you Darkstar post

Obviously Scott heard part of this story. He misinterpreted “Tier-3” to be “TR-3,” which seemed credible because the U-2 spyplane had been reborn in the 1970s as the “TR-1” aircraft. But Scott took rumors of a stealthy reconnaissance development project and speculated wildly, arriving at the conclusion that stealthy spyplanes were already in operation, and had even been used over Iraq.

Source

This would suggest where the TR prefix first started.

And then evlolved either in reality or speculatiively into TR3

In 1991 Scott was back, this time with an article about a top secret stealthy reconnaissance aircraft called the “TR-3 Manta” (“Triangular Recon Aircraft May be Supporting F-117A,” June 10, 1991, p. 20). He wrote that “about 25–30 of the special reconnaissance aircraft—designated the TR-3A Black Manta—could be placed in service eventually, based at Holloman AFB, NM, and Tonapah, Nevada.” He continued: “Several TR-3As are believed to have been deployed temporarily to Alaska, Britain, Panama and Okinawa. More recently, they are believed to have supported F-117A operations in the Persian Gulf War.”

Nearly fifteen years have now passed since that article, and no such aircraft has entered operational service. No photographs of it have been produced, nor has anybody who worked on it stepped forward to discuss it, even anonymously. If a stealthy triangular-shaped aircraft ever existed, it certainly did not become operational or the government would have declassified its existence just as it has for other operational aircraft that start out as classified projects. If an aircraft becomes operational, sightings of it will increase. But the alleged rash of sightings of the “Manta” ended over a decade ago.

But where did the "B" come from.

The date of publication for Zero Point as far as I can determine was September 2001 and Fouche talks about the TR3-b in 1998 which makes me feel there maybe an even earlier date somewhere.

As yet I have not been able to find an earlier reference but things may get a little vague when looking for anything with the TR3 prefix.

I will of course keep looking.

One paragraph from the article at Space Review that I have echoed and also was proffered in the NIDS report.

If the Air Force was so effective at keeping Tacit Blue, the Bird of Prey, and the F-117 secret, why would it fly a much larger top secret aircraft during daylight hours over populated areas?

[edit on 8-6-2008 by sherpa]

Originally posted by jkrog08


Well I'm glad your protecting that member(can he not do it himself?).Also I was being sarcastic when I called you a disinfo agent,not the same as irrelevantly pointing out typos cause you are to ignorant to do anything else!


Anyways believe what you want,I'm done bickering with you,have a nice day.



EDIT to add:

signature
Now that's just ridiculous!

Yep!That just about sums up your opinion on everything up.

What's wrong? Don't like what you hear? I'm glad that at this point, you've only come to attack my signature and some side comment I've made.

It's probably because I'm a disinformation agent.

When you want to talk about the other stuff I've posted so far, lemme know, even if its not what you want to hear young man.

reply to post by jkrog08


Then I do digress and apologize to you my friend but since you do minor in physics you can agree that his account is fatally flawed within the atmosphere.

reply to post by Cypher


Ha,well I can't tell you the approximate dates because like I said it was over nine years ago! Thge base however,is located in Smyrna,Tennessee,USA-hope that helps!

reply to post by GrOuNd_ZeRo


Thanks for your post,is that what your avatar is supposed to be?(TR-3B)It looks like it is warping space and it is triangular,thats why I ask.

I think as far as classifying certain technologies as black or ultra black we have to be careful an not let our own bias(as members of a 'fringe' site used to hearing about mind boggling technologies)affect our logic,example;Some have said that a craft capable of 'mass reduction' and FTL(FasterThanLight)travel is not 'advanced'enough to be a ultra black project.Really?I don't think we are anywhere close by ourselfs of producing a feasible prototype capable of FTL travel(or fast sub light travel).Sure you can 'wrap' your head around it,but so can you with teleportation,Moon/Mars bases,time travel(all of which my source confirmed).The point is not rather you can 'conceive' it,but rather build it or come up with at least an idea on how a FTL drive would work. I am pretty sure mainstream science can't even begin on work to create a FTL engine,let alone mass reduction technology that is 89% accurate in mass reduction!I am sure there are some technologies in the ultra black world that would blow our minds,but alot of it is things already conceived(thanks to sci-fi mostly,lol).My point is that there is not much that could be developed that we could not 'wrap' our heads around! I surely think that 'hyperdrive' or 'warp' drive USAF ships fall into the realm of 'Ultra Black'.

Here is some information on the SR-74 'Scramp'and some other related projects:

The SR-74 Scramp is the daughter ship and rides piggyback on the huge SR-75 until take off. Scramp is from Scram-jet and rocket propulsion. Scram-jet means a supersonic combustion ram jet. Jerald witnessed the flight of the big black Air Force SR-75 carrying the little unmanned SR-74 while inside Area 51. It was sitting piggy-back on its upper raised platform on top of the SR-75 Penetrator.I heard talk about the 75 as far back as the late 70s while at Groom, and I have 2 additional friends who have seen it at Groom.Remember, the SR-74 Scramp can't take off from the ground. It can only launch from the SR-75 mother ship at an altitude above 100,000 feet, and then it can attain orbital altitudes of well over 800 thousand feet or 151 miles.

The Air Force uses the Scramp to launch small, highly classified, ferret satellites for the National Security Agency. It can launch at least two 1000 pound satellites measuring 6 feet by 5 feet. The Scramp is roughly the equivalent size and weight of a F-16 fighter. It can easily attain speeds of Mach 15, or a little less than 10 thousand miles per hourThe NASA Space Shuttle is an antique by comparison. The joke is on the taxpayers. If you think these rumors are far-fetched. Look at the YB-49 and XB-70 flown in 1948 and 1964 respectively. Now look at the SR-75 which has been spotted numerous times.
You say, the government can’t keep a secret.

You’re wrong if you think they can’t.There are new rumours that we’ve placed two new vehicles in permanent orbit. One of these is the Space Orbital Nuclear - Service Intercept Vehicle (SON-SIV). It is code named Locust. The SR-74 and the TR-3B can deliver spares replacement units or SRUs, service fuels, fluids, and chemicals to the SON-SIV. Then, the robotic SON-SIV uses these deliverables to service, calibrate, repair and replace parts on the newer NSA, CIA, & NRO satellites, which are built to be maintained in space.

Source

WOW,so now we are talking about 'Unmanned nuclear powered satellite repair units'.If You think we made this without a little help somewhere along the line from our 'friends' in space than think again.This would defenitaly point to a strong presence in space for us,if you have a permanent orbital vehicle up there to repair things it is only logical that you have a large number of 'assets' up there.The ISS could definitely use this as it would save massive amounts of efforet,money,and time required to launch a shuttle up there to repair something.Will the PTB let them use it?Maybe,maybe not-but I am willing to guess if it does than the astronauts are 'tight lipped' about it.Likely it would be one of those things only in a grave emergency will the PTB allow it to assist the ISS saying "We have a new 'prototype' that might be able to help you."

Like I have said for a while,the real space program is with the military.


Heres a rendition of the TR-3B:



Heres a schematic for a 'mass reduction apparatus':




[edit on 6/8/2008 by jkrog08]

Here is a brief report of the Illinois sighting of a 'black triangle'.

L. Scott Miller, professor of Aerospace Engineering at Wichita State University in Wichita, Kansas said"I suspect that the people in Illinois saw an airship of some type. Is it operational? I don't know. Would it be 'sexy enough'

for the Defense Department inventory, compared to other high-tech aircraft like the B-2? I don't know," Miller said.

"Each sighting requires a great deal of analysis. A witness's perceptions of speed, acceleration, and size are likely of very little value,"

Miller said.

"I have taken an approach of first identifying needs -- or mission requirements -- and technology availability. Then I compare

those with the cold raw, simple facts of a sighting, not the conjecture or guess work of a witness," he said.

"I suspect that, as a result, perhaps up to 30 percent of the recent 'Triangle UFO' sightings are of black world aircraft,

jets or airships," Miller concluded.

Source


[edit on 6/8/2008 by jkrog08]

A 'Stealth Blimp Airship'?I think likely not,considering other accounts of these 'triangles' moving at rapid speeds and performing incredible maneuvers.

[edit on 6/8/2008 by jkrog08]

The best UfO investigations are in Spanish, my favorite researcher is Salvador Freixedo.

The Extra-terrestial Menace book is a deep research about the matter of this forum:

I do not know if you can find the book in English.

La Amenaza Extraterrestre

[ salvador freixedo - la amenaza extraterrestre - Upload a Document to Scribd Read this document on Scribd: salvador freixedo - la amenaza extraterrestre ]

Ok so far we have covered the following reported craft in the 'ultra black' world:

1.TR-3A-Predecessor to TR-3B
2.TR-3B-Flying 'triangle' air/space craft likely utilizing propulsion concept similar to anti-gravity(mass reduction) as well as conventional propulsion.Numerous sightings.
3.SR-74-'Daughter' ship to SR75,numerous sightings of both(Aurora sightings,donut contrails)
4.SR-75-'Mothership' to SR74,both 74 and 75 were follow ups on the SR71,likely using hypersonic technology.
**Here is a summary of the SR-75(Penetrator)

Area 51 - the Groom Air Base facilities, has a 6 mile long runway, the longest in the US. The Department of Defense and CIA’s most exotic aerospace vehicles are tested and modified at the Groom Lake facilities.Why a 6 mile long runway? You need a runway this long if the minimum, or stall speed of an aircraft, is a very high speed. Aircraft without wings, like wedge shaped lifting bodies, or those with 75 degree swept back wings, have a very high stall speed. So they take off very fast and land even faster.


It’s a place where curious outsiders circulate rumors, about aliens and extra-terrestrial technology, being utilized to accelerate the various programs at Area 51.My sources estimate that up to 35% of the SDI funding was siphoned off to provide primary expenditures for the Air Force's most secret 'Black Program’, which started in 1982. It is called - The Aurora Program.


Aurora is the code name of the ongoing project to build and test advanced aerospace vehicles.For the last few years, high-tech buffs speculated that at least one new and exotic aerospace vehicle existed. The SR-75, the first operational Aurora Program vehicle, went operational after 2 years of flight testing and modifications in 89.


The top secret SR-75 is a hypersonic strategic reconnaissance, or SR spy plane, and is called the Penetrator. It is also a mothership, which I will explain shortly. Hypersonic speeds start at approximately Mach 5. The SR-75 replaced the SR-71 spy plane, which was retired in 1990, by the Air Force, who said, "there is no replacement, all we really need is our spy satellites to do the job. Ha! The new SR-75 is capable of positioning anywhere in the world in less than 3 hours. It carries multi-spectral sensors, such as optical, radar, infrared, and laser. It collects images, electronic’s intelligence, signals intelligence, and illuminates targets.

Source

5.SON-SIV:Orbital permanent satellite repair station(nuclear powered,unmanned)
6.Teir 1,2,3,4-UNKNOWN black world craft,possibly alternate name for the TR series craft.

Also does anyone know what the following video is of?Has it been 'debunked'?(The video won't play on here so you have to go to the site.)Youtube

So now we know of some of the craft,I want to mention some 'other'ultra black projects I was told of and try and find some collaborating evidence.

Another things my source told me was that we(US government)have "gigantic,rectangular space craft motherships"that we have been using for some time,these are huge and 100's of years ahead of anything we have.They are part of a secret 'space fleet' and carry several smaller ships within them,as well many crew members.They have capabilities to travel many times the speed of light(how fast I don't know)and use total reversed engineered alien sub light and super light drives(all I know is it is magnetic and affects gravity and space-time).They are totally silent and have a 'adaptive camouflage system'that allows them to hover right over head a enemy without being detected,they 'blend in' or become part of the sky(so if you look up you see like nothing is there).There is some tell tale signs you can locate it by if you know what to look for.The edges of these craft,though 'camouflaged' can distort the real space around it(you can see odd breaks in the sky that don't belong there,I hope I am explaining this well so you all can understand but it is difficult to explain until you see it.)especially at night,which is when I saw it(at the exact time and place X said to look!)I was looking up at the stars and suddenly a section of sky about(estimation)300-600 yards by 200-400 started moving slowly,but at a steady pace!!No sound,nothing-it looked like the lights below the craft were trying to mimic the stars in the sky,but for some reason they were out of place somewhat.(like they don't expect us to know star positions!)So this craft just flew overhead(about 500 feet up,no more than 1000 feet and that is probably to high)continued on a linear direction(not sure of it was east to west or what) and was gone,needless to say I was speechless.Apparently we have secretly had a very strong and steady presence in deep space since at least the 70's and were up in space well before that(50's,maybe sooner,but definitely by then).Also he mentioned what is already well known throughout the 'conspiracy community' about bases on the Moon,Mars,underground,and deep underwater in places like the 'Mariana Trench'(that is the deepest spot known on Earth,it plunges down over 7 miles[~37,000 feet!]).He mentioned that there have been battles over control of some of the bases on the Moon and Mars,both with other countries and alien forces. We all know of the reported battles in Area 51 and the 'Dulce Wars',well they happened according to X.One thing he told me was of a battle on the Moon between the Soviets and USA,so maybe the 'Cold War' wasn't so cold!Like I said this source had some extraordinary claims so I urge you all to make up your own minds based on what available evidence you have and my testimonies verifying some of his claims,as well testimonies of others throughout the web that touch on the same things he spoke of.Again,I can not verify any of this beyond a doubt,but I believe it to be possibly true,you make up your own minds.

EDIT to add:This isn't the first time I have mentioned this 'Rectangle Craft' on "ATS",I also mentioned it here in this thread.

[edit on 6/8/2008 by jkrog08]

Originally posted by jkrog08
reply to post by GrOuNd_ZeRo

 

Thanks for your post,is that what your avatar is supposed to be?(TR-3B)It looks like it is warping space and it is triangular,thats why I ask.

All of these "Black Projects" you keep bringing to the surface on ATS may very well be interelated to the Bilderberger Group. Here's a quote I posted elsewhere. I also submitted this to DIGG on your behalf, jkrog08

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
I was thinking about this today as I was posting elsewhere, and the thought struck Me that these other threads may all be interlated, because the things happening in them I reference may be directly or even indirectly influenced by the Bilderberger's.

Blackwater : Right-Wing Conservative America, Whether You Like It Or Not...

G.I.Jane vs Rendition...Hollywood vs Reality...Training vs Torture...WATERBOARDING

United States Quits Human Rights Council

The reasoning behind this hypothesis is that when it comes to all things dark and hidden, being that the Bilderberger Group attempts to constantly stay hidden in the shadows with their meetings as well as their comings and goings, that these types of things like the organization of Blackwater as well as C.I.A. Rendition Programs may very wel be paid for in some way and or influenced by the Bilderberger Group.

I posted these all in quotes in one of the threads I reference in this thread :

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
I just posted this over on there two threads, and since it is one quote I put there, I thought I would share it here as well :

Blackwater : Right-Wing Conservative America, Whether You Like It Or Not...

United States Quits Human Rights Council

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
I just posted this over on this thread here :

United States Quits Human Rights Council

This really should concern a lot of American citizens in that if we as a nation are stepping away from an important Council like this, it only spells disaster for America.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
If the United States had stepped away from the Human Rights Council, that can only really mean one thing. That being that the U.S. Government is not going to acknowledge human rights in open quarters, since it is already not acknowledging it behind closed doors, with the C.I.A. Black sights, where there is torture going on in the name of our freedoms, but via a surrogate country doing the actual torturing.

For instance I mention waterboarding in this thread :

G.I.Jane vs Rendition...Hollywood vs Reality...Training vs Torture...WATERBOARDING

One of, and I mean one of My sources of some of this information was this book :

Ghost Plane: The True Story of the CIA Torture Program

As well as this book also :

Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army

Which I reference in this thread here :

Blackwater : Right-Wing Conservative America, Whether You Like It Or Not...

[edit on 8-6-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Hey,thanks for submitting this for me,and thanks for all your input.I just got back from reading some more of your 'Bilderberger' thread and your short story(Haven't finished but its a awesome suspense story!)I too believe that this is interconnected,I have always thought that the 'shadow'government mostly isn't politicians or military at all.My source stated that all these projects are ran by 'individual groups working for the government',but not 'affiliated' with it by any obvious means besides a mention here or there of a budget item or something.You see that way you have 'plausible deniability'!In essence what I am saying is the 'shadow' government hires these people to start 'non-official military projects' which themselves become 'shadow' programs.It is now a enormous entity operating outside the realm of accountability to the American people,military,or government since it is still in essence 'corporate'.What they do(from information gathered and source)for some of these projects is take the best of the best from the Air Force,Army,etc and bring them into this 'civilian para-military' program and thats how it works,so no trail to follow,no official Senate questions to answer,no accountability.