American 'Ultra Black' Reversed Engineered Projects

Originally posted by ufo reality
TR-3A and TR-3B ASTRA flying triangles are from reverse engineered alien technology. Made by Boeing Phantom Works 53 in Australia.

I find that interesting, could you tell me anything more ?

The origin of that information would be good if you have any links.

wow u spend more time bickering over things than u do discussing relevant points(i hope my punctuations not offending anyone)
Yes, we all are aware of reversed engineered technology and,
No, of course we can`t verify anything, thats why its a conspiracy theory and how can u all argue over technology that u have no first hand knowledge of? the argument that any potential new technology is impossible because it defys (our) laws of science is preposterous, when can anyone say they know everything? how many times have humans had to rewrite there theories. all i`m saying is, we each of us have a valid point and no less credible than anyone elses given the nature of the beast.

I previous poster mentioned that projects are "compartmentalized"..at least in the Defense world you may only work on a small piece of a much larger "system". THus the large majority of those who are cleared essentially know nothing. Based on certain requirements you might speculate how/where it might be deployed. Your speculation might surprise/shock you.

Originally posted by jkrog08
Heres some more information.......

CEO Ben Rich, the hand-picked successor of Skunk Works founder Kelly
Johnson and the man famous for the F-117 Nighthawk "Stealth" fighter, its
half-pint prototype the HAVE BLUE, and the top secret F-19 Stealth
Interceptor.

Whats your source on this? There is no F-19, unless whoever wrote it bought a Testors model kit with it on the box.

Ben Rich and Lockheed certainly wouldn't have admitted to it if there was either, because if one got built it never made the public realm, and as such would still be a classified project.

Strikes me that whoever wrote that doesn't know what they are talking about.

[edit on 7/0608/08 by neformore]

Well that is interesting, but I need some proof and not just speculation .

Good day ol chap!

Originally posted by ufo reality
TR-3A and TR-3B ASTRA flying triangles are from reverse engineered alien technology. Made by Boeing Phantom Works 53 in Australia.

Given that the speculation for the TR-3B only exists in Nick Cooks "Hunt for Zero Point", and that practically everything on the web is a re-hash of his speculation are you typing something that you know here, or parroting something that you think you know?

Theres a big difference.

Actually the craft is completely possible if Fran De Aquino's Mass Shifting Research is true, and it only becomes a matter of 'slightly' creating a gravitational field in front of the craft - which would simply shrink the distance between it the object you are traveling to.

users.elo.com.br...

[edit on 7-6-2008 by gulfstreamsalt]

reply to post by sherpa


Hey Sherpa,I'm glad you stopped by!I am currently looking over information for the 'TR-3A/B' and the 'F-19' Stealth Interceptor,I will post the information shortly.(Although I can't promise it will be a huge help!)


p.s.-I have added you as a friend by the way.(I like your threads,lol)

[edit on 6/7/2008 by jkrog08]

I thought I might point this out to those who don't believe my source or are leaning that way.It is odd that the very same method 'X' told me the craft uses to travel FTL has been mentioned here from other sources(the front of the craft driving it by some form of gravity/electromagnetic manipulation)

reply to post by neformore

Given that the speculation for the TR-3B only exists in Nick Cooks "Hunt for Zero Point

Hi, neformore, I did not realise that, so all references to the TR3-B are from that one source, is that specifically for the triangle or the prefix ?

It seems funny that I am treading in your footsteps on one or two subjects did we not last talk on my nazi disc photographs thread ?

Originally posted by jkrog08
reply to post by sherpa

 

Hey Sherpa,I'm glad you stopped by!I am currently looking over information for the 'TR-3A/B' and the 'F-19' Stealth Interceptor,I will post the information shortly.(Although I can't promise it will be a huge help!)


p.s.-I have added you as a friend by the way.(I like your threads,lol)

[edit on 6/7/2008 by jkrog08]

Ok, thanks, I appreciate your efforts and I am happy you have enjoyed my threads, your not after a loan are you

Ok so I found much more information than I thought I would on these TR-3s and some other 'black' craft.Search results for the 3A and 3B were completely different from each other as the 'A' appeared to be a sub sonic platform and the 'B' appeared to be the exotic reversed engineered craft,although they both are considered in Ufology.First the TR-3A or the 'Black Manta' appears to have been a compliment or follow up to the F-117,serving as a 'Battlefield Operations Platform',it was(is?) sub-sonic and greatly resembles the B-2 Spirit.There are rumors that it was responsible for the laser ranging of targets for the F-117 'Nighthawks' in the first Gulf War.Now I think that this is disinformation likely and the TR-3A was either the predecessor to the TR-3B(code named 'Astra') or like one site says "a totally different platform(ie;reconnaissnce vs attack)using the same core technology."It is possible,but not likely that simply the TR-3A was a 'conventional' black project and the 3B was an 'exotic' project.Apparently the TR series and other unkown,but of similar technology craft are(were)being developed under a project codenamed "Aurora",yes that "Aurora".This strikes me as likely as I always felt that Aurora was a project name,not a crafts name,also it is a nice coincidence that my source said the very same thing.

Notice that I keep using words from both past tense and present tense as the information varies on development dates and it is likely that similar,newer generation craft(or the same generation)are still being produced and tested today.The information agrees that it is highly likely that the first of these Aurora project craft were rolled out and operational by at least the mid 1980s.As I said it was 9 years ago when I spoke with X,so some aspects of the conversation I have obviously forgot,but I will tell all I remember as I remember more,the more digging I do.The following is from the websiteAmericanAntiGravity.com and the information confirms what I was told and says some things I did not know,it is a very interesting read.

*****Editor's Note: This reprint of the TR-3B specifications claim is based on information generally credited to Edgar Fouche, who claimed involvement with this project in the 1990's. We make no claims about whether this is factually accurate or not, but this story becomes more interesting as time progresses. What was originally considered to be a "wacky UFO-claim" seems to be the benefactor of a great deal of coincidence as AG research moves forward.

Simply put, the TR-3B's claim to use an MHD torus filled with a "virtual plasma" of high-pressure mercury is strikingly similar to the unrelated claims of Igor Witkoski about the construction of the Nazi Bell device, as well as anecdotal evidence relating to other instances of AG-effects in mercury in the presence of RF-fields. Additionally, a plasma-toroid is the only means of replicating some aspects of Eugene Podkletnov's superconductor experiments on a larger scale than achievable through traditional Type-II ceramic superconductors (plasma's and SC's both absorb magnetic field lines). It should be noted that none of the invidividuals in any of these claims were aware of each other's existence when they published their work, making the similarities quite striking***

The tactical reconnaissance TR-3B's (code-named Astra) first operational flight was in the early 90s. The triangular shaped nuclear powered aerospace platform was developed under the Top Secret, Aurora Program with SDI and black budget monies. At least 3 of the billion dollar plus TR-3Bs were flying by 1994. The Aurora is the most classified aerospace development program in existence. The TR-3B is the most exotic vehicle created by the Aurora Program. It is funded and operationally tasked by the National Reconnaissance Office, the NSA, and the CIA. The TR-3B flying triangle is not fiction and was built with technology available in the mid 80s.Not every UFO spotted is one of theirs.


The TR-3B vehicle’s outer coating is reactive to electricalRadar stimulation and can change reflectiveness, radar absorptiveness,and color. This polymer skin, when used in conjunction with the TR-3Bs Electronic Counter Measures and, ECCM, can make the vehicle look like a small aircraft, or a flying cylinder--or even trick radar receivers into falsely detecting a variety of aircraft, no aircraft, or several aircraft at various locations.A circular, plasma filled accelerator ring called the Magnetic Field Disrupter, surrounds the rotatable crew compartment and is far ahead of any imaginable technology.


Sandia and Livermore laboratories developed the reverse engineered MFD technology. The government will go to any lengths to protect this technology. The plasma, mercury based, is pressurized at 250,000 atmospheres at a temperature of 150 degrees Kelvin and accelerated to 50,000 rpm to create a super-conductive plasma with the resulting gravity disruption. The MFD generates a magnetic vortex field, which disrupts or neutralizes the effects of gravity on mass within proximity, by 89 percent. Do not misunderstand. This is not antigravity. Anti-gravity provides a repulsive force that can be used for propulsion. The MFD creates a disruption of the Earth's gravitational field upon the mass within the circular accelerator. The mass of the circular accelerator and all mass within the accelerator, such as the crew capsule, avionics, MFD systems, fuels, crew environmental systems, and the nuclear reactor, are reduced by 89%.This causes the effect of making the vehicle extremely light and able to outperform and outmaneuver any craft yet constructed--except, of course, those UFOs we did not build.


The TR-3B is a high altitude, stealth, reconnaissance platform with an indefinite loiter time. Once you get it up there at speed, it doesn’t take much propulsion to maintain altitude.At Groom Lake their have been whispered rumours of a new element that acts as a catalyst to the plasma.With the vehicle mass reduced by 89%, the craft can travel at Mach 9, vertically or horizontally. My sources say the performance is limited only the stresses that the human pilots can endure. Which is a lot, really, considering along with the 89% reduction in mass, the G forces are also reduced by 89%.


The TR-3Bs propulsion is provided by 3 multimode thrusters mounted at each bottom corner of the triangular platform. The TR-3 is a sub-Mach 9 vehicle until it reaches altitudes above l20,000 feet--then God knows how fast it can go!The 3 multimode rocket engines mounted under each corner of the craft use hydrogen or methane and oxygen as a propellent.In a liquid oxygen/hydrogen rocket system, 85% of the propellent mass is oxygen. The nuclear thermal rocket engine uses a hydrogen propellent, augmented with oxygen for additional thrust. The reactor heats the liquid hydrogen and injects liquid oxygen in the supersonic nozzle, so that the hydrogen burns concurrently in the liquid oxygen afterburner.The multimode propulsion system can; operate in the atmosphere, with thrust provided by the nuclear reactor, in the upper atmosphere, with hydrogen propulsion, and in orbit, with the combined hydrogen oxygen propulsion.


What you have to remember is, that the 3 rocket engines only have to propel 11 percent of the mass of the Top Secret TR-3B. The engines are reportedly built by Rockwell.Many sightings of triangular UFOs are not alien vehicles but the top secret TR-3B. The NSA, NRO, CIA, and USAF have been playing a shell game with aircraft nomenclature - creating the TR-3, modified to the TR-3A, the TR-3B, and the Teir 2, 3, and 4, with suffixes like Plus or Minus added on to confuse further the fact that each of these designators is a different aircraft and not the same aerospace vehicle. A TR-3B is as different from a TR-3A as a banana is from a grape. Some of these vehicles are manned and others are unmanned.

Remember when I said X told me about alien craft being able to 'mass shift'or 'manipulate mass'?Well that report from a different source says the same thing.

The question I ask is "Why the rocket engines?"It seems like they wouldn't last long enough.(even with the reduced mass rocket engines burn fuel extremely quick)Would the nuclear reactor allow them to last longer or is it just that with 89% of its mass negated the rocket fuel becomes more like a 'high powered jet fuel'?


Heres an excerpt from Wiki(which concurred with other sites concerning the 3A) about the TR-3A(Black Manta).I believe that the following was the disinformation given to conceal the true nature of the program.

The TR-3A Black Manta is reputedly a United States Air Force spyplane. It is allegedly a black program, and its existence is officially denied.

The TR-3A is claimed to be a subsonic stealth spyplane with a flying wing design of some sort. It was alleged to have been used in the Gulf War to provide laser designation for F-117A Nighthawk fighters (attack bombers), for targeting to use with laser-guided bombs (smart bombs). The TR-3A is supposedly manufactured by Northrop Grumman.

Because there is no hard evidence of the involvement of any other stealth aircraft in the Gulf War, another hypothesis has arisen. This holds that whatever vehicle has been identified as the "TR-3" is nothing more than a prototype for the B-2 Spirit stealth bomber.

Continued....

Sources:

Wikipedia/TR-3A

AmericanAntiGravity/TR-3B





[edit on 6/7/2008 by jkrog08]

reply to post by sherpa

Ok, thanks, I appreciate your efforts and I am happy you have enjoyed my threads, your not after a loan are you

Yea,I need a loan.............a loan for the truth.Lol,really all I want is for you to add me as well.

Originally posted by jkrog08

Well I am glad you can tell me what I do or do not know,and that I am making something up. I wish I were as smart and 'informed'(lol)as you Sir,well you seem to know it all,so why not just close down ATS?You are right,we should all believe you,you know what I say is false,there is no government cover up,everything is a well performed fictional hoax!

You're welcome.

Edit to add:Yea you can get above 'Black',saying that you know you can't is pure ignorance.All 'Ultra' means is that unlike normal black projects there is much more secrecy and these things are developed in MILITARY bases,not a CIVILIAN 'SKUNK WORKS'HANGER.It is simple really,less people know and no one knows the 'whole piece' except a few high up individuals.So to sum it up for you;it is MORE SECRET THAN BLACK.

Black projects have a range of secrecy, you can't really get above that unless you want to start making stuff up. It really depends on your particular job. You say "less people know, no one knows the whole piece". That's how projects usually are and it's to protect defense secrets and anything sensitive relative to the project.

Oh and since when did a piece of paper such as a 'Non Disclosure'agreement stop anyone from talking?If you believe a piece of paper is enough to 'shut people up' then "I have some land I wana' sell you."You actually sound like a government disinfo agent IMO,not saying you are,JUST you sound like one!

I am a government disinfo agent, you got me. If Non-Disclosure Agreements weren't effective, then I would imagine 1000s of people around the U.S. that work on sensitive projects would be coming forward because Treason and being put into jail for the rest of their lives is much more comfortable. Anyone in the business of secrecy and has access to the type of sensitive material you're touching on won't be stupid enough to release information because they know it won't be hard to find them.

But I guess that piece of paper doesn't do much.

Hold on a sec..

An Engineer is here from Area 51, we're going to go have coffee and talk about the new electromagnetic aircraft they've been developing there, because he has access to everything.

OH! Dude! There's more here now! Ya what a party. We're going to have a big group discussion for lunch I can tell! Man.

hahha that piece of paper doesn't stop anyone obviously!

Originally posted by jkrog08


How mature

,I always love when an ''ATS'' member who can't offer anything of value to a thread resorts to irrelevantly calling people out on typos and/or name calling

That's funny, I could of swore you just called me a disinfo agent.

If you want to find out so bad about all the black projects, go to school like regular people do, get a degree in an engineering field specific to Aerospace, work really hard, get first in your class, develop theoretical aircraft or some form of exotic propulsion -----> Join the Air Force.. do really well there and good from there.

There's your biggest step as opposed to hanging out on an internet message board where the information you'll receive isn't going to be genuine if it's still classified.

You'll be stuck too hard in the conspiracy realm and just be deferred from reality, but hey, your choice.

Well apparently the F-19 missing was just a 'business' decision by Northrup-Grumman as at the time(early 80s)they wanted their new jet to be designated the F-20 for various reasons.(Note-The F-20 'Tigershark' was a failure and was never sold)Of course some say that the F-19 is a secret fighter,it may be but t he evidence points otherwise.

The F-19 fighter designation has been one of the recurring mysteries of the postwar era. There is an apparent "hole" in the fighter sequence between F-18 and F-20. Was F-19 never assigned to any fighter aircraft as the Air Force claims, or is it a cover for some supersecret "black" project that is yet to be revealed? All throughout the late 1980s, it was sort of an open secret that the Air Force and the Lockheed "Skunk Works" were working on a project to develop a "stealth fighter" that would be invisible to radar. It was assumed by almost everyone that this project bore the designation F-19, since that designation had apparently been skipped when F-20 was assigned to a Northrop design. In July of 1986, the Testor Corporation of Rockford, Illinois released a $9.95 plastic kit model of what they called the "F-19 Stealth Fighter". Tom Clancy referred to a "F-19 Ghostrider" in his 1986 novel Red Storm Rising as part of a plot involving a future European war.It is now known that the designation "F-19A" was officially skipped at Northrop's request. Since the F-5G turbofan adaptation of the F-5F was basically a completely new design, the company wanted to have a new designation assigned to it. The next designation in line would be F-19, but Northrop preferred an even number because the Soviet competitors in the export fighter market of the early 1980s all used odd numbers, and Northrop wanted to stand out from these.

So it was all about business(as usual)but it does raise a question about what happened to or where are the other 'missing' designations?Of course some are secret projects,but how many?


Source

reply to post by Masisoar

That's funny, I could of swore you just called me a disinfo agent.

Well I'm glad your protecting that member(can he not do it himself?).Also I was being sarcastic when I called you a disinfo agent,not the same as irrelevantly pointing out typos cause you are to ignorant to do anything else!


Anyways believe what you want,I'm done bickering with you,have a nice day.


EDIT to add:

signature
Now that's just ridiculous!

Yep!That just about sums up your opinion on everything up.



[edit on 6/7/2008 by jkrog08]

[edit on 6/7/2008 by jkrog08]

In general, people have little conception of the problems involved in reverse-engineering a device or a propulsion system, and that's just for a terrestrial design.

For anything that's even mildly advanced and is from a non-terrestrial source, to be of value we'd need a lot more than the final device.

Even technology merely 10e4 years in advance of ours might be nearly impossible to understand, let alone disassemble safely and engineer.

Having the final device or technology or a crashed (even if still functional) propulsion system is only marginally helpful in a majority of cases. For instance what good would a microchip do if we hadn't already mastered the electromagnetic energy spectrum? The majority of the time just trying to disassemble a technology will destroy it, and highly advanced technology (such as a nuclear reactor) might not be abe to be disassembled by a more primitive species.

What's more important to have and understand are the Production Methods, not the final device.

All the stories seem to be based of a technology which is almost exactly the same level as ours, or maybe a few dozen years in the future. The probability that another sentient species could come here and have technology which is close enough to ours that we could benefit from it has got to be very, very small.

So I think it's safe to discount all or nearly all stories of reverse-engineered alien technology.



[edit on 7-6-2008 by Badge01]