Sea Sheppard Captain shot by Japanese Whalers

Vox2442, what's your opinion of the media coverage in Japan regarding whaling? Coming from someone who lives there, I mean.

Originally posted by mungodave
reply to post by vox2442

 

I accept what you say..... I have never been to Japan.
And you are right... my beliefs are based on the information
I hear and read in Australia.

i ask you this though..... how is the Japanese claim to whaling for scientific research valid in your opinion........ considering they claim they are not whaling for commercial purposes?

EDIT TO SAY:
and you eat it as a supermarket type product?

[edit on 7/3/2008 by mungodave]

On the edit question:

Yeah, I can buy it at the supermarkets here in town, usually as a fresh meat. There`s several different cuts, as with beef or pork. A whale steak will set me back about the same as a decent sized steak of aussie beef. You can also buy it canned, which is quite cheap. I`ve never had that, because I tend to stay away from canned foods for some reason.

On the other question, it`s fairly straightforward, and is outlined quite clearly by the Japanese (although almost never reported in the western media): the scientific research being carried out has at it`s core the aim of defining whale populations (this is multifaceted: birth rates, sexual maturity age, diet, stability of food supplies over time based on fat to muscle ratios, and so forth) - this is basic conservation science data gathering. The end goal of this research is to define future catch limits, when the resumption of commercial whaling resumes.

The Japanese have been operating under the terms of the original whaling moratorium - that commercial whaling must cease to allow species to recover from the effects of 2 centuries of whaling. That was the agreement. The Japanese position is in line with the original agreement.

It`s also useful to keep in mind that we`re talking about whaling for meat, as opposed to Oil and bone - which were the root of the problem the last time around, accounting for the overwhelming majority of global whaling activities.

Did I answer your question? Sorry, been a long day.

reply to post by mungodave


There seems to me to be a witch hunt against whalers. I just want people to get the facts, and see something other than the propaganda. It's like brainwashing. Whaling is a resource and has been for a very long time. I know some activists want the eskimos to starve to death, because the animals are "cute". I want them to think again.

Originally posted by watch_the_rocks
Vox2442, what's your opinion of the media coverage in Japan regarding whaling? Coming from someone who lives there, I mean.

I`m not sure exactly what you mean.

In terms of quantity? quality? recipes? give me a bit more to go on..

Originally posted by Hellmutt
I know some activists want the eskimos to starve to death, because the animals are "cute". I want them to think again.

There Inuit not eskimos and there's a difference, Inuit only kill what they need and use what they kill, not just the meat. everything, bone, skin, meat, etc.

[edit on 7-3-2008 by Edn]

Originally posted by vox2442

On the edit question:

Yeah, I can buy it at the supermarkets here in town, usually as a fresh meat. There`s several different cuts, as with beef or pork. A whale steak will set me back about the same as a decent sized steak of aussie beef. You can also buy it canned, which is quite cheap. I`ve never had that, because I tend to stay away from canned foods for some reason.
Ok , understood.

On the other question, it`s fairly straightforward, and is outlined quite clearly by the Japanese (although almost never reported in the western media): the scientific research being carried out has at it`s core the aim of defining whale populations (this is multifaceted: birth rates, sexual maturity age, diet, stability of food supplies over time based on fat to muscle ratios, and so forth) - this is basic conservation science data gathering. The end goal of this research is to define future catch limits, when the resumption of commercial whaling resumes.

And you need to catch, slaughter and eat HOW MANY whales to do the above?

The Japanese have been operating under the terms of the original whaling moratorium - that commercial whaling must cease to allow species to recover from the effects of 2 centuries of whaling. That was the agreement. The Japanese position is in line with the original agreement.

My understanding is that whaling within Australian waters, let alone a whale santuary, is illegal and may I say , bloody immoral.
It`s also useful to keep in mind that we`re talking about whaling for meat, as opposed to Oil and bone - which were the root of the problem the last time around, accounting for the overwhelming majority of global whaling activities.

Did I answer your question?

Sorry, been a long day.

reply to post by mungodave


On the first point:

How many would be acceptable, from a statistics point of view, to establish framework for responsible catch limits? 1%? 0.05%? 0.005%? Given that the current minke population as given a low estimate of 350,000 and a high of 700,000 in the southern ocean, and that we`re talking less than 1,000 per year right now... well, you do the math.

On the second:
Australia has a claim to those waters, that pretty much no one else in the world acknowledges - that`s the other side of the antarctic treaty that you all vehemently defend. the whaling program is perfectly legal under the terms of the moratorium.

third. .. plankton? come on, mate. baleen whales have been long known to chase shoals of fish. you`re probably thinking of krill, that feed off of plankton.

Vox2442, I posted on the first page about a mate who went to Japan for a few months and said that the media coverage of whaling over there is very scarce.
Do you find it's regularly mentioned in the media? Said mate had the impression that the majority of the Japanese public had no idea what was going on with regards to the controversy surrounding the subject.

Originally posted by vox2442
reply to post by mungodave

 

On the first point:

How many would be acceptable,

Sir.. I think you miss my point.
Do you need to slaughter ( and butcher on deck) 1000 whales to learn their mortality rate, breeding cycles etc?. Bunk. The fact is the Japanese gov't KNOW it is illegal to fish whale down here, and declared it research. Not us.

We dont allow toothfishing here either.... but for some reason we dont disarm our boats when they enforce this.
So if the Japanese are not harvesting meat why the hell are they taking so many whales.

On the second:
- the whaling program is perfectly legal under the terms of the moratorium.

Ok ... so we are fishing?... or " doing research?

third. .. plankton? come on, mate. baleen whales have been long known to chase shoals of fish. you`re probably thinking of krill, that feed off of plankton.

Humpbacks eat krill and stuff......... not fish.... and they are the whales
most loved and protected here, and also the ones the Japanese gov't decided they would " research" this year...... as far as I know they backed down, and moreover were Not allowed to harpoon.


Yes... I am passionate about this topic.
Mungo

[edit on 7/3/2008 by mungodave]

reply to post by watch_the_rocks

Just got down to your post and have to say, without reading the others, "evil prospers when good men nothing", or something like that,
If it wasn't for the "sea shepard" doing it's thing, then there would be no news on the tv tonight!, nothing but the usual.As much as I deplore violence of any kind "sometimes, you gotta fight to be a man"If we don't bring prominance to these actions then they are going to continue till there is no fight left to fight!.
And at the end of the day we MUST fight for what we believe in. The world is in too much trouble for it to be left to the polititions. We must stand up, and in order to do that, sometimes we gotta fight, if that means people get hurt, then that should show others the strengh and the stance of those fighting.If we stand back and let our values and beliefs get walked on for nothing more than a diplomatic peace-fire than what are we but then blowing wind?
to make a difference, we must first make the effort, that requires toughness and an ability to soldier on, saying "oooh, we shouldn't be doing that" just doesn't cut the the mustard when it comes to people risking their live for a common cause.
If the captain was expecting a bullet then he would probably be wearing a vest: he was, therefore he was., That's because he is fighting a war that is unseen by the common people, it's a war that involves more than just whales,it's a war that includes every single person on this earth. It's a war that if we lose, will mean the end of the world,as we HAVE known it.
Because it will mean, if we lose, that money has won, and that's all there is left to die for.

Originally posted by mungodave
Humpbacks eat krill and stuff......... not fish....

[..]

Yes... I am passionate about this topic.

Humpbacks do eat fish.

The species feeds only in summer and lives off fat reserves during winter. Humpback whales will only feed rarely and opportunistically while in their wintering waters. It is an energetic feeder, taking krill and small schooling fish, such as herring (Clupea harengus), salmon, capelin (Mallotus villosus) and sand lance (Ammodytes americanus) as well as Mackerel (Scomber scombrus), pollock (Pollachius virens) and haddock (Melanogrammus aeglefinus) in the North Atlantic.[10][11][12] Krill and Copepods have been recorded from Australian and Antarctic waters.[13] It hunts fish by direct attack or by stunning them by hitting the water with its flippers or flukes.

Humpbacks

If you are passionate about the subject, you should have known that...


[edit on 7/3/2008 by Beachcoma]

If you are passionate about the subject, you should have known that...


[edit on 7/3/2008 by Beachcoma]



Arghhh..I concede your wikipedia......BUT its the KILLING of the whales unnecessarily that I am passionate about.........get it?

Originally posted by watch_the_rocks
Vox2442, I posted on the first page about a mate who went to Japan for a few months and said that the media coverage of whaling over there is very scarce.
Do you find it's regularly mentioned in the media? Said mate had the impression that the majority of the Japanese public had no idea what was going on with regards to the controversy surrounding the subject.

Ah, ok, I`m with you now...

The controversy angle gets a bit of mention, when the time calls for it. When the sea shepherd guys boarded the whaling ship, there was a bit of coverage of the anti-whaling angle - IIRC there was a 5 minute news digest piece on international reactions to whaling on one of the networks around then, just to remind everyone of something they already know (ie. that the Aussies don`t like whaling very much), as well as some commentary from a few Australin politicians, Japanese politicians, and so forth. I seem to recall a couple of man on the street things around them, at least one of which first showed a streeter from Australia before showing a Japanese city (might have been Osaka, but it`s been a while, and I can`t remember exactly). There was a bit more introspective news on the topic when the humpback hunt was being discussed. When the ships left this year, there was coverage of the event - alongside a few shots of greenpeace protesters dressed as a happy whale or something. Vague memory of that.

The debate tends to be fairly truncated though, if only because it tends to be re-hashed every year. It`s a Sunday paper kind of story, if you know what I mean by that. People know what`s going on -but it is by no means the patriotic media spectacle that it is in the Australian media.

Other than the controversy end of it, the actual whaling gets a bit of mention, when the fleet goes out or returns, and there`s a bit of mention from time to time about whale meat stocks, I`ve seen that once or twice. I`ve seen a couple of Diet members commenting on various things around the story as well, over the years. All in all, though - it`s kind of a background story, if it`s not breaking news.

Another thing to keep in mind - Japanese people also tend to shy away from arguments. I`d be willing to bet that any personal brush off as far as the whaling debate goes that your mate got was simply because he`s Australian, and people know what they`re going to get when they start answering questions about whaling with an Aussie.

I tend to try to steer the conversation around to hockey whenever one brings up the subject at the bar, because it takes about 35 seconds before the air is rife with baffling, profanity laced Australian Idioms... and after that, the scene is just got a bunch of confused, startled Japanese people being shouted at, and me in the middle trying to explain what "stone the crows" means in Japanese. Not wanting to get into an argument is not the same as not knowing.

If you kick a tiger in the nuts a few times, you can expect to get bitten.

To me, it seems as though the group in question (as articulated by supporters) is using some seriously violent means to interrupt what is - even if I don't like it - a legal enterprise.

As another astute poster pointed out; use violence, expect it in return. There has got to be a better way to pursue a end to this kind of fishing. I am suggesting the political route: engaging the hearts and minds of those that create the demand for the products in the first place.

Of course, I wasn’t there, have never been there and am only offering my opinion based off of what we are talking about and making the assumption that the “facts” of the matter at least resemble reality.

=)

Paul Watson is a madman, but he is on the side of the angels. I have sent dough to Sea Shepherd myself, and will do it again. I donno about whales being 'cute', but I thing killing and eating them is at least as reprehensible as eating ape. Go whale watching...get a feel for their level of intelligence.

Kudos for Watson!!

Nobody... and I mean NOBODY says " Stone the crows" over here.........The Aussies will back me up.


You wouldn't be the Kiwi spokesman for the whaling company would you?... the one all over the ABC today?

Originally posted by mungodave

Arghhh..I concede your wikipedia......BUT its the KILLING of the whales unnecessarily that I am passionate about.........get it?

Food is a necessity, is it not?

Sustainable fisheries management is a necessity, is it not?

Employment is a necessity, is it not?

Preservation of cultural heritage is a necessity, is it not?

Quick question, as you`re passionate: How much of Australia`s Aquaculture relies on Krill? How much cash does that bring in, per annum? Did the Australian government bat an eye when the Krill catch - the whale food - in your supposed territorial waters increased from 450,000 tonnes 2.6 million tonnes per year? Which will have a greater impact on the whale population, hunting 1,000 a year, or robbing them of their food supply? Does that story get any press? Made the news here...

Originally posted by mungodave
Nobody... and I mean NOBODY says " Stone the crows" over here.........The Aussies will back me up.

Really? I`ve heard it more than a few times from Aussies here - but in this case, it was used as an example, being the only phrase that came to mind that wouldn`t get me either red-flagged or slapped on the wrist for trying to get around the board censorbot.

I am "with" those who would choose not to whale and would defeat commercial or "research" whaling. I am underwhelmed how "well-informed" and "US-ethically challenged" ATS site staff are about this. Must be genetic to spin like that. I won't bore the membership with the actual history... many folks just don't care. Fine.

The crew of the Shepherd don't kill whales or shoot Japanese humans in international waters. I can't say I'd be so "charitable". Shoot my Captain? It ain't about whales anymore. Got an address for the shooter? The shooter's boss?

The Japanese spin-pigs and their lilly-livered Yank-scum allies. Laughable as that "US President". Having fun in Okinawa Amerikantski's? Minke-whale burger anyone? Go Ahead.

JMHO for entertainment purposes only...

Cheers,

Vic

US Dept of State source: "U.S. Position on International Whaling Issues".

Sea Sheperd Int'l: "Japanese Scramble to Spin Shooting Story".

[edit on 7-3-2008 by V Kaminski]

reply to post by V Kaminski


apanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Nobutaka Machimura was quoted as saying to the media, “Is it all right to hurt humans in order to protect whales? I think whales are cute and important creatures, but even so, hurting humans is unforgivable."

That is quite the spin--accusing Sea Shepherd crew, who did not injure anyone, of hurting humans after Japanese whalers and the Coast Guard deliberately injured human beings to protect an illegal whaling operation.

The Japanese Coast Guard admitted to the media only a few days ago that its officers were armed with rifles and sidearms. Now they are denying they have rifles.

The Japanese keep changing their story.
The most important fact remains that the Japanese whaling fleet is illegally killing endangered whales in a whale sanctuary in violation of international law and an Australian Federal Court order.






In case u dont know where the "cute" reference comes from

Star again Vic

Mungo