Uncle beheads toddler in supermarket

reply to post by yanchek


Sorry, my bad.
Ok, maybe not little kids.

Pop quiz:
The last 10 beheadings that got worldwide attention were commited by?

Answer:__________________________

Originally posted by Alxandro
Pop quiz:
The last 10 beheadings that got worldwide attention were commited by?

Answer:__________________________

Criminals.

Second line

Originally posted by Alxandro
Pop quiz:
The last 10 beheadings that got worldwide attention were commited by?

Answer:__________________________

People who were being off topic

How many more times does it have to be stated that religion is not the issue here?

Originally posted by neformore
How many more times does it have to be stated that religion is not the issue here?

Exactly!


I find that people enjoy blaiming everything on religion. Any religion. it's the person that commited the crime, not the religion.

reply to post by neformore


Is it ok if we talk about culture?

Is it alright if we express our opinions that maybe this particular crime is an example of the problems of Muslim culture?

If this were a crime that we would associate with Western culture, would it be alright if we wondered about how it reflects on Western Culture?

Originally posted by poet1b

Is it ok if we talk about culture?

Is it alright if we express our opinions that maybe this particular crime is an example of the problems of Muslim culture?

From Alxandro's article

"For a whole two days everybody was depressed and too shocked for words. It is not something you hear of every day here. It is not something accepted or part of the culture," said Fatany.

So, I think culture thingy is of the table too.

Why don't we look at this as domestic dispute that ended up in tragedy and discuss the rising trend of fatalities in family circles around the world? You know, the pathology of societies.

[edit on 5-3-2008 by yanchek]

Originally posted by poet1b
Is it ok if we talk about culture?

Is it alright if we express our opinions that maybe this particular crime is an example of the problems of Muslim culture?

But...it isn't is it?

Children get murdered in every nation, by people of varying religious/cultural backgrounds every day. I linked to three child killings in the US in my post above.

So, shall we talk about US Culture and - using your premise here - how lousy that is, and how its indicative of major problems with the framework of the USA, and how Americans are all sick murderers and thats whats wrong with the world today?

I would imagine you find that notion unpalatable. Of course, its not the case - so why are you trying to make it the case in this thread?

If this were a crime that we would associate with Western culture, would it be alright if we wondered about how it reflects on Western Culture?

Killing a child is killing a child is killing a child....isn't it?

Does it matter if its done in the East, West, North or South? its just as despicable.

The only thing that keeps people coming back to this thread, it seems, is the percieved ability to once again have a go at anything middle eastern, or muslim.

Well its funny because if you read the ABC, MSN, FOX, CNN websites, I bet you'll find a story about a child being killed in the USA today. You'll probably find a couple. Its the same in England with the BBC, Sky or ITV sites.

This was a crime by a deranged individual. Its sick enough without people wanting to try and turn it into a race/religion/"culture" exercise.

[edit on 5/0308/08 by neformore]

Killing is killing. In the middle east the patriotic way of killing someone is cutting their heads. Sorry, but that's the way it is over there. I suppose it's like saying, "Hey look, at least i'm doing it in a traditional way". Not saying it's better to do it that way. But, here in America is was ok to hang blacks during slavery and that was seen as the right thing to do. Of course this guy has to get his head off cut off too! not saying the guy is right, but in their culture it is acceptable to kill people like that..and here in the US it's not. Guess we have to understand their culture a little better.

But don't get me wrong. what the guy did was absolutely horrific.

Originally posted by jedimiller
Killing is killing. In the middle east the patriotic way of killing someone is cutting their heads. Sorry, but that's the way it is over there. I suppose it's like saying, "Hey look, at least i'm doing it in a traditional way". Not saying it's better to do it that way. But, here in America is was ok to hang blacks during slavery and that was seen as the right thing to do. Of course this guy has to get his head off cut off too! not saying the guy is right, but in their culture it is acceptable to kill people like that..and here in the US it's not. Guess we have to understand their culture a little better.

But don't get me wrong. what the guy did was absolutely horrific.

I don't think we do, I think it is fair to say the the culture there is a lesser one than western culture *for all it's failings*.

No perfection, but simply better and worse

reply to post by blueorder

Originally posted by blueorder
I think it is fair to say the the culture there is a lesser one than western culture *for all it's failings*.

That is one of the most arrogant statements I have ever read here at ATS.

Are you serious?

What makes you think your any better than the 'average' person born and raised in the Middle East?

Something that has been put to you, and others, repeatedly in this thread (and ignored BTW) is that some worse things are happenening in your own backyard yet you still have the audacity to judge those that you know nothing about.

CT

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist

That is one of the most arrogant statements I have ever read here at ATS.

settle pettle

Are you serious?

deadly- if you, for one minute, think that I view the "culture" in Saudi Arabia as equal to western culture, then you are sadly mistaken.

A country which bans any religion bar Islam, a country which makes woman cover up and treats the word of a woman as less than that of a man *making her guilty of adultery when she is raped*, which cuts limbs off thieves etc etc (I could go on) is infinitely worse than anything offered in the west.

Yes we in the west have failings, we have evil people (human beings can be evil wherever they happen to live) but to suggest that means one cannot make a judgement call on what is clearly a debased lesser culture, then sir, I do not bow to such moral cowardice.

What makes you think your any better than the 'average' person born and raised in the Middle East?

I rather doubt I said such a thing

Something that has been put to you, and others, repeatedly in this thread (and ignored BTW) is that some worse things are happenening in your own backyard yet you still have the audacity to judge those that you know nothing about.

CT

see above

Originally posted by neformore
How many more times does it have to be stated that religion is not the issue here?

I agree.

I have after a couple of days reading this article made my way back to comment on it.

I feel that the fact this occurred in a public setting whereby the weapon used to behead the child was accessed in the shopping centre, shows to me that this is indeed a man who has lost all sense of control.

A man who has reacted outside of 'normal' sensibilities.

I liken this horror to the man who threw himself and his children during an argument with his wife off a hotel balcony. His children died and he lived.

Man Throws Children, Self Off Hotel Balcony

The images of this man after the horror were gut wrenching. Regardless of what anyone thinks he deserves, to see a man come to terms with what he has done...was I believe, in the above instance, more severe than any punishment the Judiciary would pass down.

This I believe is one of those horrors. A person loses all sense of control and reacts without all sensibility then wakes up and has to live with that moment of sheer madness.

Madness does not discriminate. It is a temporary or permanent human condition.

reply to post by blueorder

settle pettle

Im settled. I was just making my opinion known.

if you, for one minute, think that I view the "culture" in Saudi Arabia as equal to western culture, then you are sadly mistaken.

Im not sadly mistaken, I was well aware of your feelings on this matter.

A country which bans any religion bar Islam, a country which makes woman cover up and treats the word of a woman as less than that of a man *making her guilty of adultery when she is raped*, which cuts limbs off thieves etc etc (I could go on) is infinitely worse than anything offered in the west.

So now what. You want to compare failings? Its not enough that children are dying every day, in every culture?

Whats worse?

The beheading of an 18th month old

The starving to death of a 5 month old

To me, they are both horrific and disgusting acts that for some reason humans are able to commit. And I dont give a damn where it happened or what religion the sick criminals follow.

CT

A Texas mother cuts off the arms of HER child and is found not guilty by reason of insanity.
Another drowns HER kids and is also found not guilty by reason of insanity.
In both cases each suffered from postpartum depression and each had gone through previous bouts of depression, not to mention psychiatric care and/or suicide attempts.
One had been investigated earlier by CPS, though it was decided she did not pose a risk to her children.
The other was urged not to have any more children.
To put it bluntly, they both had issues.

Sure they were Christian, but in both cases, as wrong as these crimes were, their intent was to protect THEIR OWN children from "evil".
I am not making excuses or condoning their actions just trying to point out some obvious differences, (ONE) they both had previous bouts with depression and (TWO) they both killed their own, and not someone elses, to protect them from impending evil.

I sure would hate to think that the uncle is just a normal person walking the streets and snapping at whim, killing someone elses kid out of spite. Since there is no way of knowing if he is mentally unstable, there will no way of knowing if justice will ever be served.

Of course we don't know much about the incident in Riyadh but why is every news report a carbon copy of the next?
Is it because some feel this is not news worthy? Is it because it is a common occurrence?

reply to post by Alxandro


You are correct.

What gets me is if he wanted to "get back at her" why not do something to her or her positions (a child is not a possession).

I believe, the point you were trying to make was the method used for the murder.

In other countries children die all the time.
Some are killed, but to the best of my knowledge, beheading is a ME/Muslim "thing".

There was a rash of videos from ME showing beheading of live conscious people, just sick beyond my ability to understand.
It is not just murder; it is a sick soulless method of doing so-meant to cause as much suffering as possible.

I am sure some will counter with well the US/UK/...... that is completely beyond the point.
The point being the beheading of an infant in ME by a Syrian.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
I believe, the point you were trying to make was the method used for the murder.

Murder is murder regardless of how it is committed, be it stabbing, slicing, dicing, beheaded, run over, pushed off a cliff, drowned, hanged, shot, poisoned, electrocuted, bombed or whatever else people can think of. So why make a distinction when it's beheading? It still results in death.

Personally I think stabbing or drowning is worse. Can you imagine being stabbed to death or drowned? I shiver at the thought. Such a slow and painful death. But ultimately the end result is the same, so what's the point? Why split hairs?

Anyway, on topic, this article seems to detail more of the circumstances behind this gruesome murder of an innocent child --

Dad Denies He was there at Son’s Beheading

For Alxandro:

Dr. Muhammed Al-Hamed a consultant psychiatrist, did not rule out that Tameem could be suffering from severe depression despite his quiet at the crime scene. "The calmness depicted by the assassin indicates that he is psychopathic," Dr. Al-Hamed told Al-Riyadh.

Keep an eye on that paper if you're so fascinated by this. There's only two English language on-line newspapers from Saudi Arabia. The other one is Arab News.

Oh, yes one more thing this link is about news elements; details on what makes a story newsworthy. Something from Newswriting 101. The timeliness element has disappeared... might explain why the news outlets outside of SA no longer talk about it.

reply to post by neformore


"So, shall we talk about US Culture and - using your premise here - how lousy that is, and how its indicative of major problems with the framework of the USA, and how Americans are all sick murderers and thats whats wrong with the world today?"

Sure, why not, start another forum on the subject. Haven't there already been forums on these subjects? Do you honestly think that Muslims do not read about these types of horrific killings in the Western world and past judgment on Western culture?

It doesn't make any sense to be on a forum saying, you can't talk about this and you can't talk about that. What else are we here for, on Above Top Secret?

How about this?

Muslim culture seems to like using murder and terrorism to make political points, and to drive home their obstinance.

This reminds me of the Honor killings that we hear about, where the youngest son is given the task of killing his sister for turning away from the Muslim religion. This puts out a very clear message to all Muslim women who might consider turning away from Islam, do so at the risk of death. If you don't think acts like this send a powerful message, then you are in denial.

What is the point of having this discussion if we are not going to discuss what leads to this type of horrific killing?

Or is the real problem that we shouldn't be able to criticize Muslim Culture?

There are some extreme acts of violence taking place in your area right now, but don't worry it's happening across the county border. If you were to cross the border and go to the nearest town, it's okay because it's all happening in a different town. Even if you go to that town, you'll be fine because it's happening on the south side. Should you venture to the south side, it's still peaceful because all the violence is in a different street. If you go to that street, things will be cool as long as you don't go to the other end. Even if you do go to the other end, it's still alright because it's all on the other side. Cross the street and you'll be safe unless you go into the end house. If you go into the end house you'll find a man who has just murdered his family.

Is this a bad area, a bad county, a bad town, is the north side bad or is it just the street that's bad, possibly just that end. Is the end house bad, or is the guy who shot his family bad?

Nope, he's a postman. It's postmen who are bad!!

...or maybe he just did a bad thing and in fact it's got bugger all to do with where he lives or what his religion, job, colour and favourite newspaper is!!

Hmm, so the way you were brought up, the morals that you were taught have nothing to do with whether or not you might become a murderer?

or what particular crime you might commit?

How many Christians kill their sister because she turned her back on Christianity?

I guess there is nothing we can do to reduce horrific crimes that are committed in all cultures.

reply to post by poet1b


My answer would be:
No, No, 42 and I would not necessarily agree (in that order).