The Evolution of UFO Design

reply to post by antar


Thanks for your reply!

Originally posted by crestone
Don't mean to go off topic, but why is it that most designs have an aerodynamic aspect to them, but don't seem to interact with our atmosphere? Witnesses note that in many cases there is no air movement, no sonic boom generated when they take off at incredible speeds. Puzzling to me

I guess the idea is that as long as they're flying in our atmosphere, it doesn't hurt to have an aerodynamic shape. It's a bit more efficient than trying to push a brick or a sea urchin shape through the air, even if you've got a matter/antimater fusion reactor under your seat.

However, as I said above, if they were really that interested in efficiency, then they would just send tiny, insect-sized probes, or no probes at all, relying on our broadcasts and small relay devices to gather all the information they need, whether they're from another planet or another time. Which tends to suggest that it's not all about just gathering information. At least one of the reasons they're here is that they really want to be seen. But why? What does it accomplish? The whole thing is baffling.

I have a sneaking suspicion that is why governments, and in particular the U.S. government, is so non-committal about UFOs. Because UFOs just don't make any reasonable, logical sense, and they can't figure them out. I can imagine them tearing apart some crashed or captured saucer and not having the slightest clue as to how it flies, where it's from, or why it's even in our existence. It's something any government would want to keep secret.

[edit on 4-3-2008 by Nohup]

Originally posted by Nohup

I guess the idea is that as long as they're flying in our atmosphere, it doesn't hurt to have an aerodynamic shape. It's a bit more efficient than trying to push a brick or a sea urchin shape through the air, even if you've got a matter/antimatter fusion reactor under your seat.

That's an interesting perspective for sure, but what if the craft is capable (as it would appear in many cases) to generate it's own gravity (or gravity bubble). Then physics such as inertia and external gravity sources shouldn't apply.

Hense, I don't necessarily see a compulsory need for aerodynamics as a brick will cut through our atmosphere like butter and as easily as a pin would.

Perhaps this could also be put down to differing races utilizing different levels of intelligence and technologies. Perhaps some craft are governed by external forces such as gravity etc and some aren't.

It could be possible that some "races' can do the dimensional "flip" yet can't traverse the vast expanses of space, (where some form of anti-grav would probably be required).

Nice thought provoking post Nohup!

Originally posted by Nohup

Originally posted by crestone
Don't mean to go off topic, but why is it that most designs have an aerodynamic aspect to them, but don't seem to interact with our atmosphere? Witnesses note that in many cases there is no air movement, no sonic boom generated when they take off at incredible speeds. Puzzling to me

I guess the idea is that as long as they're flying in our atmosphere, it doesn't hurt to have an aerodynamic shape. It's a bit more efficient than trying to push a brick or a sea urchin shape through the air, even if you've got a matter/antimater fusion reactor under your seat.

[edit on 4-3-2008 by Nohup]

Thank you for your post.

I probably didn't formulate my question re aerodynamic design properly. My point was that they are not flying at all by our definition. No interaction with air molecules, hence no sound and wind movement or sonic boom. And yet they seem to use an aerodynamic form. Why not use a brick? Could this be more related to esthetics than function?

reply to post by crestone


I thought your theory was quite clear crestone. I agree that it's very strange that we don't see air displacement or sonic booms in many of the witness testimonies.

The 3 'objects' I encountered myself (which were very close to me) displayed this ability... but they weren't of the 'nuts & bolts' variety. More 'plasma-like' in appearance. They also displayed spawning technology and changed physical dimension before shooting off from a stationary position, (no sound).

Originally posted by NohupI guess the idea is that as long as they're flying in our atmosphere, it doesn't hurt to have an aerodynamic shape.

Another aspect is that conventional aircraft at a distance can take on a roughly discoid shape, or lenticular appearance.

I picked a Corsair, only because it was the first image I came upon that showed a head on view. I was looking for a rear-quarter tail view, which I think the Trinidad sighting is, but couldn't find one with a cursory search. The type of craft is similar to a light aircraft (not the Corsair, specifically) and if you look closely, the dot below could be one of the wheels on the landing gear, the other wheel rotated out of view.

As we've all seen, the F-117 and the B-2 definitely resolve at a distance to a rough saucer shape.




[edit on 5-3-2008 by Badge01]

i have to agree with sherpa's post showing how the description of ufo's over time changed. also antar's post of how people evolve, so does the way they describe what they see.

the post by truth doesnt make a noise, proposing a worm design is one that is fascinating. basically a craft that can adapt its shape to its flight needs. i can't even begin to understand the engineering behind that and the materials needed to make it so.

unfortunately with so many hoaxers adding to the variety of shapes and styles of craft that get reported and/or documented only adds to the mystery.

reply to post by Badge01


You could very well be right on that one Badge01! I live close to a commercial flight path and I've seen similar effects (though not identical) on smaller planes. However never to the point that you couldn't make it out as an aircraft but at a quick glance you may be inclined to take a second look!

Very good images to back up your theory!

That's a big star from me!

[edit on 5/3/08 by InfaRedMan]

Originally posted by crestone
Why not use a brick? Could this be more related to esthetics than function?

I suppose the aliens or time travelers just like the shapes they come up with, and they "customize" their craft according to what they think looks cool. If you're able to create your own gravity field or some other field where you don't interact with the atmosphere very much it wouldn't matter what the shape of the craft would be, only the shape of the field. In that regard, a saucer shape would be one of the least efficient designs, since so much of it as it tapers to the edge of the saucer would be too small for practical use. If you're hauling aliens/people around, they need space to sit or move. Your design is again limited by the requirement of having passengers.

One possible reason for a disc shape is to use the body of the ship itself as two concave lenses facing each other, to focus or nullify a field or force into points external to the ship. Maybe a little something like this:



Unlike that old cartoon image of a sailboat with a big fan on it blowing the sail, which then moved the ship, this might have the effect of actually creating a kind of force well (gravity, perhaps, but not necessarily) that would "suck" the ship toward it while also moving the point of the well, since it is external to the ship itself. The ship would continue to fall toward the hole (or maybe the supermassive singularity), but never get to it. This would be sort of the same thing that happens to an orbiting body, except that in this case it would happen in a straight line through space. Or subspace, or hyperspace, or isospace, whatever you want to call it.

Just an idea.

reply to post by crestone


No sonic boom? You're right.
When a spacecraft like the one on my avatar completes a delta
maneuver there is no sonic boom because the warp field created
by the reactor decreases the mass of the spacecraft from its
natural value of about 10 tons down to an artifical zero.
Plug a MASS of zero into Force=Mass X Accelleration. What happens?
The technology is known as Spacial Deteriation of Mass.
It sounds like science fiction but this is what is really happening.
The warp field also allows the spacecraft to travel in nonlinear time.

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by crestone

 

No sonic boom? You're right.
When a spacecraft like the one on my avatar completes a delta
maneuver there is no sonic boom because the warp field created
by the reactor decreases the mass of the spacecraft from its
natural value of about 10 tons down to an artifical zero.
Plug a MASS of zero into Force=Mass X Accelleration. What happens?
The technology is known as Spacial Deteriation of Mass.
It sounds like science fiction but this is what is really happening.
The warp field also allows the spacecraft to travel in nonlinear time.

Thank you for your post. It sounds very scientific, but I don't understand a thing. Could you please translate it in lay man's terms? What gives you certainty that "this is what is really happening"? Not trying to disprove you, just curious

reply to post by Eurisko2012


I think we're more likely to see anti-grav than warp if you are to believe the scientific studies into the sheer amounts of energy it would take to warp space. Our sun would be a watch battery in comparison (& at best). It's quite possible that anti-grav requires nothing more than manipulations of naturally occurring resonances.

If you take gravity away from Einsteins famous equation E=Mc2, then the whole 'theory' falls down like a deck of cards. You no longer require infinite energy as the 'craft' won't become infinite in it's mass as it accelerates toward light speed (...and beyond). Inertia and friction etc no longer apply. For me, warp tech just sounds like a plain waste of energy and ultimately destructive.

That's my 2 pennies worth on Warp.

reply to post by Nohup


Great diagram to illustrate the theory Nohup! I find this a VERY intriguing method of propulsion. I recently heard a guest on C2C that spoke of this.

To digress 'slightly' but not totally. I also pondered on the why's of the elliptical shape of the classic saucer vehicle many times when I was younger. Please don't laugh at this - I was a kid.

One day I was eating an orange which had a lot of pips. As I dug the pips out, I squeezed the tapered end between my forefinger and thumb and watched them shoot out and fly across onto the lawn.

I wondered to myself if UFO's employed a taper for the same reason. I kind of imagined a force being applied to the rear of the craft (like space collapsing) from above and below and forcing the craft forward in a constant manner.

I wondered if they could create a temporary 'tear' in space that would then close behind them.

Please - I asked you not to laugh! .. but who knows hey!

reply to post by crestone


Crestone, you may have to wait until December 21, 2012 to get
all the technology spelled out for you. You can go to
www.boblazar.com... to get the basics of what is going on.
In Lazars tape he explains how the warp field is formed by
the basketball sized reactor. If you go to his webpage you can
see the cross section of the sport model in my avatar pic.
You can see the 3 Gravity Wave Caterpillar drives in the
lower propulsion section. You can actually get it up off
the ground with no reactor online. You just can't do a delta
maneuver.
It's not magic. It's just technology. This is all really boring info
to the grays and other aliens who have reached Earth in numbers
and diversity.
The huge cigar shaped starships have the ability to FOLD space
by shutting time off. T=Zero

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
I wondered to myself if UFO's employed a taper for the same reason. I kind of imagined a force being applied to the rear of the craft (like space collapsing) from above and below and forcing the craft forward in a constant manner. I wondered if they could create a temporary 'tear' in space that would then close behind them.

Please - I asked you not to laugh!

.. but who knows hey!

I remember a dream I had as a kid where I swear I "saw" the structure of space represented. Like conical, shifting "blobs" of energy with a kind of odd surface tension that kept it together. Bust the surface tension, and no force, no space. You could go as fast as you wanted. Maybe if I was smarter, I could have figured out the math and been a real Einstein. Who knows if there's some other kid out there dreaming the same thing who could make it happen?

reply to post by Nohup


So I wasn't the only Freaky Kid! lol! Actually, the concept sounds nice. Who knows eh! It could all be true. Dreams are for learning so anythings possible.
Thanks for sharing that dream Nohup.

reply to post by Eurisko2012


I thoroughly immersed myself in ALL Bob's stuff years and years ago but I must admit that I've become a bit more "skeptical" about both Bob and his 'science of the saucers' as the years has passed.

Without going back into the sheer amounts of energy required to 'fold' space again...(I've been there)...

What would happen if (for instance) you and I were in a small craft occupying the very same part of space that the 'mothership' needed to fold?

Would we perish?
Would we be squashed?
Would we not notice anything?

Also, what replaces the space while it's in a folded form? A void? Is the other space forced to stretch or is the folded space simply torn away from regular space for the time it is folded. I've never been able to get my head around that part. I'd also imagine major disruptions to anything close by with that amount of energy being manipulated.

Oh Yeah, I nearly forgot to mention, thanks to whoever was responsible at ATS for rewarding me back my points. Much appreciated!

[edit on 7/3/08 by InfaRedMan]

Nice thread

I'm not so sure theres been an "evolution of UFO design" though. I do wonder if more than one species is visiting the planet.

Somethings to bear in mind.

Our aerodynamic principles are unique to this planet and the density of our atmosphere. Its possible that there are planets capable of supporting life that have a different composition than ours. If so, things may look entirely different.

What about the notion of differing kinds of life based on other elements than carbon?

The design principles of aliens may very well be completely different because they are - by definition - alien. We base our anlysis of objects based on what we know, which is our (perfectly natural) arrogant human assumption of what is correct.

If you look at the universe, you'll see that stars come in massively different varying sizes, from Red Hypergiants through to White Dwarfs. Its possible that planets can evolve in the habitable "zone" of any star, but if they do the type of life that might develop there will have wildy differing characteristics.

Our shape and form is dictated by the conditions we live in. Nature has decided that our exposure to the sun, gravitional conditions, atmospheric conditions and natural predators favours a 2 legged biped with the sensory organs close together and off the ground. BUT, planets come in all shapes and sizes too. Its entirely possible that you could have a supermassive planet with small sized occupants or a smaller planet with tall ones.

What I'm getting at is that varying craft sizes are only relevant to their occupants. It may be possible to have a craft four foot across that has 4/5 small aliens in it. Conversley you could have a craft 50 foot across with one 15 foot occupant. In both cases its highly unlikely you'll ever see whats inside because conditions that favour us may prove deadly to them outside of their vessel and life support systems.

We don't know enough about the universe or how conciousness is formed/hive minds etc to take a guess at minium alien "scale", which is why these "worm/plasma/clouds" things that are seen occasionally fascinate me - imagine if those things are actually whole clusters/fleets of minute craft operating in unison with a hive mind?

Generally, I conjecture that the majority of creatures that would want to visit this planet would do so because they favour the conditions here in the same way that we do - but don't forget that human "intelligent" life on this planet can range in height from 4-8 feet tall, and whales and dolphins - which have the brain capacity to equal ours range from 12 ft to 110 ft in length.

reply to post by Nohup


Interesting. Thanks!

reply to post by Eurisko2012


Why December 21, 2012? Is that related to Bob's link?