Soon U.S. Citizens Must Ask for Government Permission to Fly or Travel

I have posted this piece before, and I am sure I will post it again. But I think about it every single time people begin to argue in favor of having their rights taken away, and fail to see how fascism and tyranny take hold.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the sick, the so-called incurables,
I did not speak out;
because I was not mentally ill.

When they came for the Catholics,
I did not speak out;
because I was a Protestant.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

- attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group.

Now stop and think about our Constitutional rights as the groups of people mentioned above. This time around the evil-doers are not picking one group after another. We are all being targeted at the same time. Our liberty is being drained from us, as if by a vampire in the night. A creature we do not see at first, then refuse to believe when we do see it, then when you finally do believe, no one else will listen to you.

reply to post by jackinthebox

Hi Jack,
That's one of my favorite quotes also. I've posted it probably six times since joining ATS in January. I wish it weren't coming to pass, but the dark clouds are on the horizon. As I said on a different thread tonight, I think people are getting to the point where they are afraid to speak out. The Intelligence agencies are everywhere, even, I'm sure,on ATS, lurking. It's pretty sad when law-abiding citizens have to worry about their own government coming after them for merely speaking their minds.
We need to keep speaking out, until they drag us away. The more people that hear the truth, the harder it will be for them to quiet us.
The truth will set us free.

Originally posted by jackinthebox

(1) Why DOES the government want to take over the responsibility? (2) Because they have so much surplus cash they might as well? (3)There is no reason to believe that the airlines have not been doing their jobs thoroughly and correctly. (4) "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

(1) I don't understand this either, all this does it put the cost of checking peoples name against a no-fly list onto the US taxpayers, instead of only the people who are fliying!

(2) They'll just print some more.

(3) I haven't heard of any terrorists hijacking a plane or bombing anything lately in the US. So, I would guess they were doing a pretty thorough job.

(4) My sentiments exactly!

Whenever the government does something, it is always more costly than if it was done in the private sector thanks to all the red tape that goes along with it.

[edit on 3/3/08 by Keyhole]

I see from the last few posts that everyone is just sticking to the general anti-Bush rhetoric. Anyone who compares Bush to Hitler is either ignorant of the facts or too young to know any better. At this point, all the paranoia is well within the range of historically common. People have thought their governments were out to get them since their existence. So a certain amount of descent is expected, even healthy. I take issue with people summing up all of 20th century history with the words “papers” or Hitler.

I wish some of these people could travel around the world and experience a police state or political suppression… they would be very happy to return home to the US. I care very little about what people think in other countries about what goes on here. I don’t see people lining up to get into other countries…

Sometimes… just sometimes… our government needs to do something to ensure our freedom. Sometimes the bad guys need to know they are bad. If that didn’t happen, we’d be no better then the French! LOL!

quote]Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by resistor

IMO, all this increasing need for documentation and security for travel is meant to condition people to accept a single form of ID that will incorporate all others

You're right, and when that happens, the terrorists will find a way to forge the document, or get someone to produce a legal one, obtained illegally.

Same as it ever was.

reply to post by Apsaroke


Particularly well said.

Originally posted by moniker
I'm sorry but it's not actually your country. It's your governments' country and they will do as they please without you having a say about it.

That is the unfortunate fact of the matter right now. It need not remain so however. Rather than people refusing to fly, we need the people to reject the status quo in all it's forms, and create the change we wish to see.

reply to post by Jake the Dog Man

I wish some of these people could travel around the world and experience a police state or political suppression

Well, you're wrong on several points. First, I'm not that young, in fact, I was alive during WWII. Second, I have traveled to Europe, Africa, and the entire Western Hemisphere. No, I didn't go to Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia,the Soviet Union or China. However, in all of the countries that I traveled, I never had a problem with a "police state".
That said, it doesn't mean I don't love America, I DO. I just want it to continue to be free. Freedom requires constant vigilance . If you don't recognize when there is a problem, and speak out, then soon you will have no freedom. What the posters have done here is expressed a concern with some of the things that are going on. Many of those things, our Founding Fathers would have had a problem with. Look at the quote on my signature. The Fed is exactly what Jefferson warned us against.
Look at our"foreign entanglements":
George Washington stated in his Farewell Address of 1796: "The Great rule of conduct for us, in regard to foreign Nations is in extending our commercial relations to have with them as little political connection as possible. . . . ‘Tis our true policy to steer clear of permanent Alliances, with any portion of the foreign World."

No, WE are not the problem. We are POINTING OUT the problem. Sticking your head in a hole, and making believe that the problem does not exist, will not make it go away.
Please give it some thought. Go back and read what our Founding Fathers wanted for this country. Then look at some of the things that this Administration is doing. Look at what ALL 3 of the remaining presidential candidates believe in, when it comes to foreign entanglements. Things will not change, if more of us don't stand up and be heard.

reply to post by Keyhole

Can You Say "PAPERS ,PLEASE"!!!

Come on folks, we've know that this change was to be implemented since at least last September.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Heck, John Lear even commented on it.

I'm not even so sure it's that big of a deal anymore.

(rabble rabble rabble)

Edit: added rabble for effect.

[edit on 3/3/08 by cbianchi513]

reply to post by Keyhole

Whenever the government does something, it is always more costly than if it was done in the private sector thanks to all the red tape that goes along with it.

Your comment reminds me of something that Jimmy Carter did when he was President. During the "Energy Crisis", Carter ordered all of the government buildings to maintain certain temperatures, to reduce heating and air conditioning, and thus conserve energy. Unfortunately, because of the way the White House and older buildings worked, in order to get the temperature to a certain point, it used a combination of heating AND air conditioning. The result was that in order satisfy his edict, the White House ended up using almost TWICE as MUCH energy, and was used before the edict was put in place. That's the government. No brains, no thought, just do it, because we say so!

reply to post by Jake the Dog Man

Sometimes… just sometimes… our government needs to do something to ensure our freedom.

[edit on 3/3/0808 by jackinthebox]

Originally posted by Jake the Dog Man
I see from the last few posts that everyone is just sticking to the general anti-Bush rhetoric. Anyone who compares Bush to Hitler is either ignorant of the facts or too young to know any better. At this point, all the paranoia is well within the range of historically common. People have thought their governments were out to get them since their existence. So a certain amount of descent is expected, even healthy. I take issue with people summing up all of 20th century history with the words “papers” or Hitler.

I wish some of these people could travel around the world and experience a police state or political suppression… they would be very happy to return home to the US. I care very little about what people think in other countries about what goes on here. I don’t see people lining up to get into other countries…

Sometimes… just sometimes… our government needs to do something to ensure our freedom. Sometimes the bad guys need to know they are bad. If that didn’t happen, we’d be no better then the French! LOL!

1. Not everyone is on an anti-bush rhetoric. So don't generalize.

2. This is a fall back position that just drives me insane. The "If you don't like, leave it" rebuttal. I'd offer you that the folks that are up in arms over the current state of affairs do indeed love their country, so much so in fact that they remember the principles upon which this country was founded and love this country enough to be vocal when things move in the opposite direction of those principles.

3. Yes, there are countries that are in a much worse controlling position that we currently are. Do you really recommend that we adopt the philosphy of "Well, since we're still a step ahead of Country X, we can afford to hand off a few more freedoms." -or- do you suggest that we sit quietly by as the freedoms completely erode until we're identical to those countries you have in mind? You don't stop a freight treign once it's reached its destination. You have to stop it once you realize where it's heading.

4. How do you rationalize taking away freedoms to ensure freedom? That's a bit of an oxymoron, no? There is nothing about data-checking US Citizens that even hints towards helping to keep this country free. If they were data-checking all Non-US citizens arriving into the country, of course, that has my full support. But this is an action that is being taken against U.S. Citizens who are supposed to have specific individual rights and freedoms in this country. That reeks of control, not ensuring freedom or safety.

It must really be a bummer to live a life where you're so scared that a "terrorist" is lurking around the corner that you'd actually support and endure the humility of being treated like a criminal without any just cause on your behalf for that treatment to be directed towards you. It's also sad that you'd look at your fellow Americans as suspected terrorists so much so that you welcome them having to take off their shoes and ensuring that their name is not on a list. Even though these people have never done a thing in their life to warrant such a data check.

I do indeed fear it is far too late not only for the US, but for mankind as a whole.

Aside from that, I don't see your point.

The point Shar was trying to make is that policies established by Clinton through Executive Orders could have easily been reversed or offset by Bush with his own Executive Orders. Considering that the democrats and republicans make such a huge deal out of their differing positions on policy that you would think a president with 8 years to make changes would have reversed policies they opposed during their campaigns. Yet Bush made no effort what so ever to alter any policies established by Clinton during his term.

I think the date problem is irrelevant to the point of the post.

A list filled with assumptions on your part. I simply think your statements show that you may have principles, but you don’t understand, or care to ignore, that not everyone does. Obviously a list isn’t going to contain everyone intending harm, but you way allows known criminals to move about freely.

You are right though, there may be no hope. People with your views are often the loudest, especially if you have someone harmed when it could have been prevented if someone had simply checked a list.

Trying to get the government to understand that the common citizen doesn't need a chaparone,is like trying to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig. Politicans are going to do what they have done for the last fifty years.Sell us out !!They have allowed the borders to fail to spark another emergency situation,that they have to remedy at the cost of our freedoms.While they pocket the taxes paid in by illeagle workers using stolen Social Security numbers.(to the tune of 400 million dollars a week) That the illeagles won't ever file for.We have the best government money can buy! Don't believe it? Just take a good look at who is really running the country.Corporate America

What the people in this country need to do is accept reality and evidence that lead to factual truths. No matter how hard it is to believe, wish it werent so or painful it is, or most of all making yourself evaluate yourself and changing your point of view or admit wrongs. Then the people of this country can put fear into the heart of our government , because we are the ones with the "Power", and do a total renovation that is long over due. In some nations, the government fear their people, shocking. Most in this country instead act like an abused dog, showing love and loyalty for it's master moments after getting the # kicked out of him. Never learn, but i guess you can always just blame illegal immigration, gay marriage, and al qaeda. Has anyone seen idiocracy? I agree.

Originally posted by Shar
reply to post by jackinthebox

 

Please let's not give them anymore ideas. OMG. Communism here it come's.

Honestly, once again I see this as another step toward's making one take a mark upon them or the chip in them to do or buy or sell anything. Just like it was written about over 2000 years ago. And, people want to say it's not true. Yet, it's happening right in front of their eyes.

They have thought of everything already and need no ideas from us- believe me they know exactly what they are doing and there is nothing to stop them short of a lynching. Communism/fascism/dictatorship has been the plan all along (IMO). I have a feeling that after this summer we will begin seeing tanks rolling through the streets of many American cities and towns.

reply to post by dk3000

Communism/fascism/dictatorship has been the plan all along (IMO).

You are right. Check out the new thread I just created. TWO brand new articles today:
www.abovetopsecret.com...'

The headline is:
Fascist America - CA Judges Orders NO Homeschooling!

In my response, I cite a second news article from today:

A new plan by a California lawmaker would allow schools to be used to promote the overthrow of the U.S. government, and let teachers in public district classrooms "inculcate in the mind of any pupil a preference for communism," according to a traditional values advocacy organization.

BTW, I' am not trying to hujack this thread. I mentioned the above, because it directly relates to your comment. The timing was quite ironic.

[

America, Land of the Unfree

nTextt=Century Gothic]Text[/font]
Welcome to America, Land of the Unfree. I should be ashamed of how I've avoided any and all political involvement in the five years since I've been an expat living in Costa Rica. My husband is a Viet Nam Vet who worked for the Postal Service for almost 36 years and retired here, Paradise. This "Paradise" we have moved to is fast becoming Westernized and there are so many "expats" here from all over the world trying to live a free life in a foreign country trying to be more like their N. American neighbor. We have no political voice here and many blame Bush for the way of the world. I blame the U.N. and our political apathy, in and out of the country. I can't stand being "Stateside" for long. Everywhere you go, someone is watching. Under scrutiny like this it's no wonder there seem to be a lot of paranoid, murderous individuals running amuck, "Stateside."
Welcome to "America, Land of the Unfree" where 1 in 100 Americans are incarcerated and we still have blood running in the streets.
Last but not least, thank you U.N., for making all this possible.
Living in Paradise

Oh yes, thank you U.N. for making all this possible.

reply to post by jackinthebox


Great post jackinthebox!!! Great quote too, I've been looking for that one!
You have to wonder how long we as a country will take this crap the Federal Government tries to put on us!?? It's quite sick actually....some old guy that I work with here actually said to me one day, since we were talking about civil liberties and freedoms during war time...., "I think civil liberties should be taken away during war time." Said it with a straight face and all. This guy is an accountant too, real dumbass and I also asked him if he knew how the Federal Reserve worked. He said it was regulated by Congress....I just laughed in his face and didn't talk to him after that since we all know who really runs this country and our money supply.
So it's no surprise to me that we will have to ask permission soon to travel outside the country and even, soon enough, inside our own country. I've posted these videos before but have any of you seen these posted before???
www.checkpointusa.org
www.youtube.com...

and this video.....

www.youtube.com...

This sort of thing happened in Nazi Germany too and the people did NOTHING!! How long until it's time for Americans to act???? I didn't know I had to verify my citizenship in the LAND OF THE FREE!!!?? What a sick joke!

Cheers,

Purduegrad05


[edit on 11-3-2008 by Purduegrad05]

reply to post by MarsSentinel
My thoughts on the matter exactly.. I haven't flown on a plane since I was in high school many many moons ago, and I haven't missed the experience at all. Who enjoys being cramped up in a small, stinky cabin with a bunch of people they don't know anyhow?

Simply stop flying, take a bite out of their profits, and the regulations will change. Flying is a luxury, not a necessity for the majority of people. It saves them a little time and maybe a little cash depending on their destination. Is it worth the invasion of their privacy? I guess that's something they'll need to decide for themselves. I'd rather walk first personally..





[edit on 3/11/08 by LLoyd45]