Ask a Christian (even about the paranormal)

reply to post by saint4God


sorry but that is nonsense,

I'm not saying there are other life forms but Ezekiel is talking about the seraphim and cherubim

they are two orders of angels doing similar roles within close proximity to God hence the wheels within wheels a work within a work.

granted the angles are described as weird compared to humans but angels they are.

the fold that mentions other sheep are the gentiles and not the sheep of the house of Israel.

When you read the Bible it has to be in context, as for the paranormal, it is straight forward what God says and that is to not get involved.

with respect of course

david

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
OK, as a believer:

What do you think of the possibility of sentient extra terrestrial life? Since God so loved mankind that he gave us is son to kill, did he give aliens another son just for them? Are we god's 'favorite' kids because he gave us, and only us a Jesus?

If Aliens were to come to Earth and tell us a similar story about a 'savior' of theirs, would it be accepted as God giving up another son to another planet by Christians, or would it be rejected because only we are allowed to have a 'Jesus'?

hello,

could i squeeze in here?

God became flesh and lived as a man. he didn't have a son in the human sense.

If there is other life on another planet he could do and could have done the same.

As for Aliens coming to earth and telling a story, well as a Christian we know God is not the author of confusion, ergo the message the aliens would give would be the same as the one way have in the Bible, anything else could be dismissed.

many thanks

david

Originally posted by drevill
well as a Christian

Maybe then you can answer my questions on page 12 ?, seems as if the "hard" questions just get ignored

Deny Ignorance

reply to post by helium3


I'm a Christian; I'll bite. Those questions are only problematic if one adopts a literal interpretation of the early chapters of Genesis, which I and many other Christians do not adhere to.

First of whitecastle thanks for replying to my questions. So basically its only the early chapters of Genesis that are SCI-FI ?, are the rest of the chapters to be taken literally ?. Who gets to decide what books and what chapters are to be taken decide ?.

Originally posted by helium3
First of saint4God thanks for taking the time to answers everyone questions, i just have a few questions.

1: In the bible its states the world and humans where created around 6000 years ago (4000BC) in the time of Creation, and Adam and Eve...etc. Also evangelist records state Adam was the first man (Luke 3:38). So how do you explain

a. 475 million years ago there was plant life on earth, thats a extremely long time to exist without sun light as is was only in 4000BC when in the first days of creation God created light.

b. Who created the dinosuars, reptiles, proto-amphibians, arthropods and multicellular life as they where here on earth 100+ million years ago ?

c. How come there is no mention of dinosuars, reptiles, proto-amphibians, arthropods and multicellular life in the bible among other things ?. It makes no
sense if God created these things to leave them from his official written word.

hello there,

well i'll have crack seeing as you asked me..


1) plants an millions of years ago, i don't believe there was, what proof is there? Science comes out with different figures all the time from different people, look it up, a graph could be made. which is true??? The only think you can assertain from a fossil is that at some point something was around and it got covered and then compressed.


(carbon dating in unreliable, and yes i also suggest this when Christians are trying to prove certain things, Christians cant pick and choose when this is useful (Turin shroud as one example)

b) How do you know dinosaurs were around millions of years ago? ok if you are using secular science ill accept your stance. God didn't leave them out of his word. Book of JOB mentions a big reptile

proto-amphibians are not proof of anything but what they are, the mudscipper for example, if it was an example of Macro evolution, it shouldn't be here it should be something else by now.
anyhow,

Genesis 1:20-23 is quite clear about the animals and their kinds and that God made/created

Genesis 1:21 KJV

And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

any one can argue about the interpretation of Whale (sea creatures?)
however please note the following "GREAT" means a lot of and also note that that many types of animals were made from out of the waters, hence the amphibians etc. you can go on in genesis and read from an "evolution point of view" (although in reality God made everything) how this came from that etc. its brilliant

dinosaurs well you can read Job 40 and 41 psalms 74 and and although not in the Bible today the book of Enoch is quite good


Many thanks

david








[edit on 6/4/2008 by drevill]

Originally posted by helium3
First of whitecastle thanks for replying to my questions. So basically its only the early chapters of Genesis that are SCI-FI ?, are the rest of the chapters to be taken literally ?. Who gets to decide what books and what chapters are to be taken decide ?.

Brilliant Point,

a follow of God has to accept the Bible as a whole,

Typically when people dismiss parts of the Bible it shows a lack of faith In my mind, and yes, i am going to hold my hands up that at times, i lack in my faith for which i hope the Lord forgives me.

Christians that dismiss Genesis as sci fi, as you said, are questioning Gods Authority and power, start there as a Christian and then what? God becomes a God of their own image.

Take Care

david

p.s sorry about the rant, liberals eh? cant live with em but bless them in as much as they make you look a little deeper

Originally posted by drevill
plants an millions of years ago, i don't believe there was, what proof is there?

Where is the physical proof of Adam and Eve, Jesus, noah...ect ?, but yet Christians infactically believe there physical existence ?. Dont you think its a little irrational to infactically beleive the physical existence of say Jesus Christ with absolutely NO physical evidence he ever walk this earth, BUT then deny the existence of dinosaurs 250 million years ago when we have museums full of there remains ?.

My point here people are blinded by there faith, this is how religions people deal with the absurd and ludicrous.......just have faith. Why is it a Christians will ask for proof of dinosaurs but no physical proof of Adam and Eve ?.

Originally posted by drevill
a follow of God has to accept the Bible as a whole

This i agree with 100% you either take its as a whole or not at all. Because by picking and choosing are you no defeating the word of God ?

Originally posted by drevill
p.s sorry about the rant, liberals eh? cant live with em but bless them in as much as they make you look a little deeper

Not at all, i just glad someone would engage the discussion.

[edit on 6-4-2008 by helium3]

[edit on 6-4-2008 by helium3]

Originally posted by helium3
First of saint4God thanks for taking the time to answers everyone questions, i just have a few questions.

1: In the bible its states the world and humans where created around 6000 years ago (4000BC)

Where? No need to provide the link that 'explains' it, I've read it and it makes some gross assumptions and generalizations.

Originally posted by helium3
in the time of Creation, and Adam and Eve...etc. Also evangelist records state Adam was the first man (Luke 3:38). So how do you explain

What is 'evangelist records'? It's the first time I've heard this term.

Originally posted by helium3
a. 475 million years ago there was plant life on earth, thats a extremely long time to exist without sun light as is was only in 4000BC when in the first days of creation God created light.

Looks like guesswork on the the 475 million part, but I'll go with it. How do you know God created light on 4,000 BC?

Originally posted by helium3
b. Who created the dinosuars, reptiles, proto-amphibians, arthropods and multicellular life as they where here on earth 100+ million years ago ?

God, by definition, would've had to.

Originally posted by helium3
c. How come there is no mention of dinosuars, reptiles, proto-amphibians, arthropods and multicellular life in the bible among other things ?

Many people believe the Bible does mention such beings in the words "Behemoth", "Leviathan" and other creatures we can't quite pin down. I'm uncertain.

Originally posted by helium3
It makes no sense if God created these things to leave them from his official written word.

Unless the were not the focus of His message to us. He doesn't mention cockroaches. Doesn't mean they don't exist. Nor are cockroaches fundamental to our daily life.

Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
It's very possible that the Catholic and Protestant churches will literally come together, maybe not in our lifetimes, but eventually.

That would be nice, I think.

Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
Islam could be another mover for this. A huge influx of Muslims to majority-Christian countries may spark the Christians into seeing themselves not as Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox, Mormons, etc. but simply as Christians. (Focus on similarities not differences.) Even Jews might be drawn into this, but less likely. This will be true even if Christians and Muslims coexist peacefully (which I hope).

I wouldn't bet on any Christian mergers with Islam or Orthodox Judiasm. The foundations are different, unlike Catholicism and Protestantism. I like to think that the Protestant movement was heard, albeit hundreds of years later. Catholics can now get their own copy of the Bible in a language they understand. A big plus.

Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
Good. Many people aren't.

I'm not afraid to admit when I don't know something or when I'm wrong. It's an important part of the growth process. I agree too many people make assumptions about these things.

Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
The problem now is finding which one is right - or which ones are right.

Indeed.

Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
It is possible to be e.g. a Confucian and Buddhist at the same time, without contradicting the principles of either religion. Most East Asians are. It is only the Judeo-Christian-Islamic religions that claim exclusive truth.

The problem with lumping Judiasm, Christianity and Islam together are some very important and fundamental differences. Confucianism and Bhuddism didn't seem to have this problem since the foundations weren't opposite. I thought Confucianism was a philosophy, not a religion. That may have helped unless I have the history wrong.

Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
Religion is not science.

Science describes what is observed and the mechanics behind it. Religion describes the larger questions of why, for what purpose, where it came from and where its going as well as things that are not observed. They're not divorced, they're married...but some friends of the wife will never be friends with the husband.

Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
It is impossible to conduct objective tests and prove that (e.g.) Sikhism is right, and Zoroastrianism is not.

I wouldn't be too sure. A lot of religions failed the science test and are no longer followed.

Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
Religion is highly personal too, which leads into my earlier statement that some belief systems are right for some people but not others.

To some, science is highly personal. Others, computer gaming is highly personal. I've seen controllers and keyboards broken over what...a game? Religion is important, but it doesn't mean people need to get upset about it. If you want to see someone get upset, mess with either their food or their money. If you've worked in food service or banking (done both), you know what I'm talking about

Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
You'll have to agree that most so-called Christians are too lazy to do that.

I don't think I can wag my finger at anyone except myself and the nature that I've known.

Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
I'm not sure if "lazy" is the right word though. Religion is a large part of tribalism, and most people automatically accept what they were born into, with perhaps a little teenage dabbling into "spiritual fads" but no serious
critical evaluation.

There is also plenty of hidden racism here, which is not surprising since tribalism is the root of racism. People of all races are so shocked when a white person converts to Buddhism, but find it acceptable for non-whites to convert to Christianity. Buddhism and Christianity are both universal religions with no ethnic affiliation.

I don't know about tribalism being the root cause, but people do make too many assumptions. I'm still not sure why this is. Diversity isn't mere skin color. It goes much much deeper than that.

Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
Does it also matter the type of sin? I know the Roman Catholic church classifies them into Venial and Mortal, but that is just the doctrine of one church.

I think it is more human nature to say "well, yeah, I stole a pen from work, but that isn't is bad as so-and-so taking extra coin from the cashbox". Stealing is stealing. The problem is we're so materialistic we think that the object we're stealing plays more of a role in how 'bad' it is versus the thought or carelessness that goes through their mind. People are shocked when a rich person seals a 'little extra' because it means more to us and them. To them, it's only a pen.

Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
This is a strong personal matter to me, as I feel that Christians, Christianity, and purportedly-secular society put too much emphasis on judging people for the spiritual equivalent of victimless crimes. Examples are idolatry, sorcery, blasphemy, and sexual unorthodoxy. It's like the teacher who really cracks down on gum-chewing - but turns a blind eye to bullying, and may even encourage the bullies to beat up gum-chewers. Part of this is cowardice.

Yep, always easier to point out someone else's faults rather than our own. I believe this is the reason behind Jesus saying:

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." - Matthew 7:1-5

Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
I know, I am not God, and cannot speak for him or know his rules. But I do know how I feel towards that teacher (or an equivalent authority figure) as I limp home bleeding. Hopefully you can relate.

One thing believers believe is that God is just. However, believers don't believe a lightning-bolt flies out of the sky and strikes someone dead when they mess up. The flood in Noah's time happened one drop at a time.

"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled" - Matthew 5:6

Because we have been wronged, should we be angry and wrong them back? How does this make us any different than the wrong-doer?

"Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"says the Lord. On the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." - Romans 12:19-21

Surely that will make you different than your persecutor. In addition, we're asked to forgive. It sounds contrary to our nature...and in fact it is. But, it works. Sometime with very, very surprising results.


[edit on 7-4-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by indierockalien
Simply put, my question is this. What makes you think you are right?

I don't think I'm right. In fact, I know I'm not right. If I were, I'd likely have no need for God.

Originally posted by indierockalien
"Ask a christian" seems to imply that you are a guru of sorts,

Nope, see original post as to reasoning behind thread. Also, there seems to be an assumption that I'm "the Christian" instead of "a Christian". But, that's not what the title says, nor did I mean to imply that I'm the only "a Christian" who would respond on this thread.

Originally posted by indierockalien
and that you are here parading around your knowledge,

I don't know a lot. Went through school, college, like everyone else I'm a specialist in what I studied, the jobs I've had and hobbies.

Originally posted by indierockalien
which in your opinion is more profound than let's say.... Muslim knowledge...

Quite an assuption you've made here.

Originally posted by indierockalien
and you're understandably proud of your faith,

Not proud. If you knew of the stupid things I'd done to find the right conclusion, pride would be the furthest thing from one's mind.

Originally posted by indierockalien
as you've been conditioned to be no doubt.

Behold! My enormous brainwashing powers! Look into my eyes @_@

Originally posted by indierockalien
I just get an atmosphere of aloofness here. Like "Christians really do have all the answers. Look here and you'll see!"

If a Christian says they have all the answers, then they're not Christian. That's not who Christ said has all the answers, erego they're not following him.

Originally posted by indierockalien
Another question. What if your religion is what's wrong with the world and you had undeniable proof sitting in your face?

What if I told you that because I was wrong, proof sat down right in front of my face?

Originally posted by indierockalien
...which....ehem..... well nevermind.... but What would you do, if that were the case?

Such proof would have to demonstrate how my previous proof was not proof.

Originally posted by indierockalien
Would you be able to accept that this thing you gave up your whole life's meaning to was actually just a control mechanism to keep you ignorant from the truth?

Controlled by...whom? I didn't seek God and find truth. I sought truth and found God. A bit different than the approach of many others as I've come to understand it.

Originally posted by indierockalien
I don't think you would be able to face the truth.

More assumptions, but I don't mind. You've been conditioned to have them. Free your mind, rock!

Originally posted by indierockalien
THE TRUTH is what we're here for, is it not?

Ya.

Originally posted by indierockalien
Or maybe it's just to push our own agendas

What is my agenda?

Originally posted by indierockalien
or our own musings on why our "what the truth might be" is even truthier than someone else's "what the truth might be" is.

No such word as 'truthier'. I've looked it up, no dice. It is either true or it is not. www.merriam-webster.com...

Originally posted by indierockalien
In the end, FAITH is based on lack of evidence,

I'll have to disagree because I required evidence to have faith.

Originally posted by indierockalien
taking somebody else's word for it.

Negative again.

Originally posted by indierockalien
Who's word are you taking? The word of an organization with THAT kind of bloody unholy track record?

I was not affiliated with any organization when I found nor did I join one until a decade and a half afterwards. Assumptions can be dangerous, careful.

Originally posted by indierockalien
They wrote the Bible.....

Who is the 'they' you are referring to?

Originally posted by indierockalien
and also killed anyone who didn't read and worship what it was about....

Who did? The Bible says not to kill. Why write not to kill then tell people to read it? Sense is seeming to unravel here.

Originally posted by indierockalien
and the Bible is what you base all of your faith

Not the case. The Bible came into play after connecting with God, which was after the evidence and in-between faith. The chronology seems a bit contorted in the sequencing of events you're presuming.

Originally posted by indierockalien
and your "evidence" of your faith's supposed power and goodwill....

You've defeated your own thread

It ain't locked yet and surely not defeated yet.

Originally posted by indierockalien
by just simply stating that you are Christian, and therefore interpretting reality with a pre-set filter that blocks out any bits of reality that do not fit in with what your filter will allow through.

Ah, ye olde 'blinder' accusation. Should you ever get the chance to know me before speaking, perhaps you'd see things differently than what your preconceived blinders have place upon you.

Originally posted by indierockalien
So, NuHup was very astute in his observation that asking a Christian about the universe is like talking to a wall or a tree.... no it's worse than that, because at least the wall and the tree don't try to justify gullibility with complicated lies they tell themselves and everyone around them. Maybe the trees give us the best answer. What is the universe? No response.

Figure it out for yourself.

All the best with that. I speak to living things that can give answers.

Originally posted by indierockalien
NOTE: I really don't understand why philosophy alone hasn't had the ability to silence this myth that is the story of Christianity already.

It isn't philosophy that silences myths, but facts and realities. I think facts and realities have done an excellent job at silences myths.

Originally posted by indierockalien
If you are born of the flesh, Son of God or not, you are still experiencing humanity through human senses, so right away, you are born with filters. Everyone is. Unless jesus was just wearing a human suit and was some bizarre thing living inside,

BINGO! The Word became flesh and existed before Abraham.

Originally posted by indierockalien
The only way to be perfect is not to be at all.

The only way forward is the way back? This can be a fun game.

Originally posted by indierockalien
We worship things because we think they are more perfected than us... but we should really be worshipping ourselves because imperfection is the reason we exist.

Uhm...what?

Originally posted by indierockalien
Be ye not GOD???

First you start off saying I have an inflated sense of ego, now you're calling me god? That's an interesting twist. The direct answer is no, I'm not God, neither are you.

Originally posted by helium3
saint4God, id hate to think you are avoiding my questions ?

Nope, just slow. Had to work overtime to get product finished...then training on Saturday.

reply to post by helium3



Hello

I cant offer physical proof of Adam and Eve, but neither can science of proof of claims of this that and the other for millions of years ago.

Both of us have a starting point of faith. I believe the Bible as my experiences say its true, if you know what i mean.

all the best

david

Thanks for this thread...sorry if these questions have been asked before but here goes... (Please keep in mind I was raised Catholic, but recently believe there is no one right religion, if there is a god at all)

- If you were born in the forest, and not raised to believe in a certain religion, do you honestly believe that you would chose Christianity as the "right religion" if you were to study all religions critically

- Do you believe there is a "right religion"? One that if you are not following it, you will go to Hell?

- Do you believe every word in the bible to be fact? New and Old testament?

- The bible claims the earth is only 4,000 years old, when science has proven that wrong, how do you explain this?

My main problem with religion is that is usually what is taught to you... similar to how someone may be a fan of a certain sport team because that is the city they were raised in, but it is very rare to see someone like a different sports team for reasons other than it being where they were raised...

Hope that analogy makes sense...

Originally posted by drevill
sorry but that is nonsense,

Quick to dismiss, are we Dr.Evil? Careful with that judgement hammer, it has two heads.

Originally posted by drevill
I'm not saying there are other life forms but Ezekiel is talking about the seraphim and cherubim

Ah, so aliens are nonsense but angels with many faces, wings and fire that come down from wheels are perfectly reasonable? Personally I think either/or or both are reasonable. Where does it say in Ezekiel that they are in fact angels? Further, it says "When the living creatures moved". Does that mean angels are living creatures? Do they die? Many are the questions, few are the answers. Certainly yes, the implication may be that they are angels, but are angels the only being that serve God? (the answer is 'no' for that one) Are angels alien to us?

Originally posted by drevill
they are two orders of angels doing similar roles within close proximity to God hence the wheels within wheels a work within a work.

Interpretation. A nice one I think (could be quite accurate), but am interested in the substantiation.

Originally posted by drevill
granted the angles are described as weird compared to humans but angels they are.

Possibly. Probably. Hard to say though. Here's the thing. If God created 'weird' being like angels, why would He not plop weird creatures on all the little specks in the night sky?

Originally posted by drevill
the fold that mentions other sheep are the gentiles and not the sheep of the house of Israel.

That is how it is interpreted, yes. But, Jesus tells us many parables. Many that most did not fully understand at the time. A 'pen' is a boundary by which sheep cannot cross. Would it be fair to say space is a boundary that mankind cannot cross to other stars?

Originally posted by drevill
When you read the Bible it has to be in context, as for the paranormal, it is straight forward what God says and that is to not get involved.

with respect of course

david

I appreciate the added respect and surely it is mutual. I agree that context is very important, but also know the dangers of making assumptions about what it 'must say' or 'must mean' even though it doesn't from a literal standpoint. God is paranormal from our viewpoint and we are involved. The devil involves us whether we want him to or not and is also paranormal. We're not to play games with the paranormal, surely. These are serious matters of which we should recognize our limitations of control (as in, we really don't have any). I'm looking forward to further dialogue. It sounds like you're speaking on a wavelength that really challenges my thinking. Also, I like your animated pic from Meez. Got a few of them myself



[edit on 7-4-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by whitecastle
I'm a Christian; I'll bite. Those questions are only problematic if one adopts a literal interpretation of the early chapters of Genesis, which I and many other Christians do not adhere to.

I'd say even interpreting it literally, the timeline still does not mesh. There's no indication of the beginning of time in Genesis, only that it happened, God started it, and what happened during the course of events. Was it literally 6 days to make everything? My question is, if God is God, why not? It could go literal or metaphorical regarding 'days' but the more I read the Bible, the more literal I'm finding the results.

Originally posted by noslenwerd
Thanks for this thread...

Glad you're enjoying it, I was surprised to find it interesting as well.

Originally posted by noslenwerd
- If you were born in the forest, and not raised to believe in a certain religion, do you honestly believe that you would chose Christianity as the "right religion" if you were to study all religions critically

Paul mentions that the law was "written in the heart", that is to say deep down we have a gauge as to what is good and what is evil. It's as if someone who knew nothing saw a person getting tortured, would they feel something? The answer should be yes. Revelation 20 speaks about judgement and I believe these things are addressed there. The judgement does not go easily however.

Originally posted by noslenwerd
- Do you believe there is a "right religion"? One that if you are not following it, you will go to Hell?

Again, we have to take the whole Bible as the book telling the story. John 3:16 speaks on how one can be saved from judgement. Those who aren't, refer to Revelation 20.

Originally posted by noslenwerd
- Do you believe every word in the bible to be fact? New and Old testament?

I do unless shown otherwise.

Originally posted by noslenwerd
- The bible claims the earth is only 4,000 years old,

No it doesn't.

Originally posted by noslenwerd
when science has proven that wrong, how do you explain this?

See above.

Originally posted by noslenwerd
My main problem with religion is that is usually what is taught to you...

It wasn't for me. I didn't grow up Christian so I guess the rest of the paragraph doesn't apply in my case. If you're saying someone who was raised Christian should know whether what they believe is true or not, to that I agree. God doesn't disappear if you ask if He exists. Give it a shot, I did.

[edit on 7-4-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by drevill
sorry but that is nonsense,

Quick to dismiss, are we Dr.Evil? Careful with that judgement hammer, it has two heads.

Hello Saint4God

regarding the Nonsense comment, you are quite right. My apologies

it was frustration.

Ah, so aliens are nonsense but angels with many faces, wings and fire that come down from wheels are perfectly reasonable? Personally I think either/or or both are reasonable. Where does it say in Ezekiel that they are in fact angels? Further, it says "When the living creatures moved". Does that mean angels are living creatures? Do they die? Many are the questions, few are the answers. Certainly yes, the implication may be that they are angels, but are angels the only being that serve God? (the answer is 'no' for that one) Are angels alien to us?

What i'm saying is that Angels being UFO's or even having the need to use them is, in my mind, nonsense.

Interpretation. A nice one I think (could be quite accurate), but am interested in the substantiation.

I can provide further textual evidence if you wish, try this first (my apologies it is very basic and by no means the be all and end all

Originally posted by drevill
granted the angles are described as weird compared to humans but angels they are.

Possibly. Probably. Hard to say though. Here's the thing. If God created 'weird' being like angels, why would He not plop weird creatures on all the little specks in the night sky?

How have angels always appeared to men? as men.

That is how it is interpreted, yes. But, Jesus tells us many parables. Many that most did not fully understand at the time. A 'pen' is a boundary by which sheep cannot cross. Would it be fair to say space is a boundary that mankind cannot cross to other stars?

Parables are to be understood by his people look at strongs number 833. Here the fold indicates the courtyard of the house of the lord as it did in the OT. There is nothing wrong in thinking the other. Its just we have to look at Gods word and find the truth, despite what we might thing or try to retro fit into a passage. Let the Bible Guide you rather than look for passages that fit any of our own thoughts.

I appreciate the added respect and surely it is mutual. I agree that context is very important, but also know the dangers of making assumptions about what it 'must say' or 'must mean' even though it doesn't from a literal standpoint. God is paranormal from our viewpoint and we are involved. The devil involves us whether we want him to or not and is also paranormal. We're not to play games with the paranormal, surely. These are serious matters of which we should recognize our limitations of control (as in, we really don't have any). I'm looking forward to further dialogue. It sounds like you're speaking on a wavelength that really challenges my thinking. Also, I like your animated pic from Meez. Got a few of them myself

God is paranormal in this sense i agree, however with regard to THE paranormal the Lord has given us specific guidelines of what we should avoid. My own personal opinion is that UFO's are demonic activity posing as UFO's. WhilstI agree that an Angel could transform into one i honestly believe they do not based on how they appear to man throughout the Bible.

I believe these are the same demonic entities that "appeared to the Sumarians etc throughout time, claiming to be gods from the heavens. This is what they want to be.

All the best

David

[edit on 8/4/2008 by drevill]

Originally posted by drevill
Hello Saint4God

regarding the Nonsense comment, you are quite right. My apologies

it was frustration.

S'all good, I can understand . Though around here there are many who wouldn't.

Originally posted by drevill
What i'm saying is that Angels being UFO's or even having the need to use them is, in my mind, nonsense.

Angels wouldn't need physical and mechanical UFO's. They seem to decend, ascend, and appear on their own. I'd like the press on the point for the following questions...

Admittedly, this sounds very vehicular in nature:

"As I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the ground beside each creature with its four faces. This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like chrysolite, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. As they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the creatures faced; the wheels did not turn about as the creatures went. Their rims were high and awesome, and all four rims were full of eyes all around.

When the living creatures moved, the wheels beside them moved; and when the living creatures rose from the ground, the wheels also rose. 20 Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, and the wheels would rise along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels. When the creatures moved, they also moved; when the creatures stood still, they also stood still; and when the creatures rose from the ground, the wheels rose along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels." - Ezekiel 1:15-21


So...if the wheels ARE the creatures, why call them two different things? What are angels doing on vehicles in Ezekiel? Or are they not angels? Why doesn't Ezekiel call them angels?

Originally posted by drevill
I can provide further textual evidence if you wish, try this first (my apologies it is very basic and by no means the be all and end all

S'all good, this is an exploratory thread. I appreciate the video clip, but there's too much in parentheses to be candid.

It's like saying:

I went to the store (meaning warehouse) and bought some apples (rather, I filled out a purchase order to request appleseeds and they said they would ship them Monday charging them to my business account).

Originally posted by drevill
How have angels always appeared to men? as men.

Do you believe that 'as men' is the only form angels can take?

((Got to go, will finish post later on))

Originally posted by drevill
Parables are to be understood by his people look at strongs number 833.

Awhosa whatsa?

Originally posted by drevill
Here the fold indicates the courtyard of the house of the lord as it did in the OT.

Why limit the the kingdom to only earth?

Originally posted by drevill
There is nothing wrong in thinking the other. Its just we have to look at Gods word and find the truth, despite what we might thing or try to retro fit into a passage. Let the Bible Guide you rather than look for passages that fit any of our own thoughts.

Hehe, you and I are saying the same thing here

Originally posted by drevill
God is paranormal in this sense i agree, however with regard to THE paranormal the Lord has given us specific guidelines of what we should avoid.

Indeedy.

Originally posted by drevill
My own personal opinion is that UFO's are demonic activity posing as UFO's.

Whoahooo! Okay, UFO's can't possibly be angels, but sure they can be demons?

Originally posted by drevill
WhilstI agree that an Angel could transform into one i honestly believe they do not based on how they appear to man throughout the Bible.

How many men do you know have four faces and wings?

On the whole, I agree angels appear as forms that we readily recognize and are comfortable with. It seems they do this for our benefit rather than theirs or God's.

Originally posted by drevill
I believe these are the same demonic entities that "appeared to the Sumarians etc throughout time, claiming to be gods from the heavens. This is what they want to be.

Motive is there, surely it's possible. Demons posing as aliens however, seems lacking in motivation.

Originally posted by drevill
All the best

David

You too. I'm enjoying this and apologize if it seems/seemed like I'm railing against you, but found that iron sharpens iron best.