Ask a Christian (even about the paranormal)

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I don't really know why I was so frightened but that was the feeling I had.

I think it's wise to listen to our feelings and seek to understand why we have them. In this case, it sounds like it was not an angelic visit. I also don't think it was your grandmother. If you hadn't seen your grandmother in a while and her spirit arrives, wouldn't someone be happy about that? Or at least comforted?

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I think angry was not the right word, more like resentful, but don't know who to be resentlful to.

Maybe yourself because you feel at fault for something? A lot of times people regret that they didn't do more with a person who has passed away or said "I love you" often enough. Maybe resentful that she moved on and left you here hurting? Resentful to God for taking her away from you and your family? I don't know. I think you've got a much better chance at answering this than I do. I remember talking to my daughter about the loss of her grandfather (spouse's side). He was Christian man who did his best to take care of the family. I asked her, "Is heaven a fun place?" It took her a moment to think about it, then realized, "Yeah". I nodded, "You bet it is! It is a party that never ends. God is there, the place is filled with happiness and love. Sound like a good place to be?" Again, "yeah". "So he's there having a great time. We will all have our time to go there too. Yes, we'll miss him in the meantime, but I'm sure he can't wait for us to join him." I went on to explain that we have important work to do here that God wants us to do, but in time it will be the reward.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I understood everything you said, and you have a gift for sorting things out.

Thanks! But hopefully I'm relaying the message rather than giving my own foolish advice.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I understand what you meant about using our trials and suffering, I "get it" how that works, I really do.

You're one up on me! It was a hard concept for me to comprehend and still struggle with it at times. I've had only minor losses and suffering in comparison to many. When the heat turns up more, I hope I can stand as true to the Word as I do today.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I have read Corinthians often, where Paul talks about asking the Lord to remove the thorn and he tells him "My strength is made perfect in weakness" -- who else but the true God could come up with such a concept?

Perhaps one of the most difficult parts of the New Testament. I get the overall message after re-reading it a half-dozen times. There's still always that one part of my mind that can't seem to wrap around it entirely.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I just get these periods of complete unworthiness, I have off and on all my life.

Unworthiness is the glass half-empty. Humility is the glass half full. Same volume, different way of looking at it. You're Biblically aligned in feeling this way:

"John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie." - Luke 3:16

John the Baptist essentially says, "I'm not even good enough to take off Jesus' shoes."

"For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted." - Luke 14:11

"Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 18:4

Originally posted by Bumbeni
Your reply helped me a lot and I thank you.

Sure thing! Glad it was a help. Fellowship is very important for us. To talk with other believers allows us to compare experiences, share joys, pray and lend compassion for sorrows. I grew up (spiritually) knowing only two means of spiritual growth. When I added three more...I cannot begin to describe how everything started to take off. These are:

1.) Prayer - this is our link to God. Tell Him about the hard times, share with Him the joys, give thanks for all He has done.

2.) Bible - It's a hard read from beginning to end because so much has changed since "In the Beginning". My recommendation is Matthew, then Acts through Revelation. After that, maybe the three gospels then go from Genesis to Matthew. Use it as a reference manual. Ask questions like "What does the Bible say about eye for an eye?" Then look for examples and answers.

3.) Fellowship - When you hang out with other believers, talk a bit about what God is doing in your lives. "They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers." - Acts 1:14

4.) Worship - Many people make the mistake of thinking worship is a place. True, we go to church to worship but it does not end at 11:30am Sunday morning. We should constantly be aware of and returning to God's presense in our speaking, praying, singing and football. (Threw that last one in there for fun. Betcha you think of God next time you watch football ). Here's a good example:

"And she added, "We have plenty of straw and fodder, as well as room for you to spend the night."

Then the man bowed down and worshiped the LORD, "Praise be to the LORD, the God of my master Abraham, who has not abandoned his kindness and faithfulness to my master. As for me, the LORD has led me on the journey to the house of my master's relatives." - Genesis 24:25-27

Try that next time you arrive at a hotel on a business trip. No doubt you'll get some strange looks. But lemme tell you, to be thinking and talking about God when someone offers you a play to stay is really having your heart and head in the right place. Can you write your monthly bills while saying "God, thank you that so many people have worked so hard to bring me electricity". Can I get an amen to that?

5.) Ministry - When you hang out with non-believers, ask God to give you the opportunity to talk about it with them. Remember when Jesus gave God's message, he did not speak with self-righteous indignation, he didn't get angry with them or impatient. If this is a stumbling block for you (as it has been for me in the past) feel free to U2U me and I can give some pointers to help.

[edit on 16-5-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God



The haunting or whatever you might call it started a short time after she passed away. I was 10 years old at the time. I had another sister in the same bedroom who never woke up or experienced any of this and another sister in the room across the hall, who had moved into my grandmother's old room, and she never had any of this experience either, and a brother in still yet another upstairs room, and he never heard anything. I just could not understand why ME, why did I have to deal with it. Of course in time I learned to stop dwelling on it, but I think the resentment part may come from the fact that no one believed me and no one else had to go through it. Something I left out in earlier description is the fact that my grandmother's room was over the attic area, she passed in the middle of the night, and the whole family was awake at the time. A mysterious fire started in a storage closet in the garage directly under her room around the time she passed away. Strage huh? It was a time of total confusion. She was quite ill with cancer and was a Christian Scientist, so she had suffered horribly with breast cancer w/o ever seeing a doctor. The cancer actually worked it's way through the outer layer of her skin; I remember helping to change her dressings when I would come home from school, but we weren't very close. She was only close with my oldest sister.

That is interesting to me, about you having a harder time grasping the aspect of the Lord's strength being made perfect in our weakness. Funny thing is, I don't remember how many years ago it was, quite a few, but when I read that the first time, it was as if everything came into perfect alignment for me. Suddenly the trials I had gone through weren't just bad memories anymore, they felt more like trophies then, like I had weathered the storm and still believed, I had been victorious. I suddenly felt I had been tried by fire for a purpose. I realized that I was fortunate to know the truth, and realized that nothing could ever shake my faith or beliefs. But being the pessimist that I am, I also began to feel a deep sadness and almost a sense of guilt, about why I was so fortunate to be a believer, and since then I always wonder why, are we believers chosen? Why do I believe but others will never believe, and so they are doomed? Well I am getting too wordy here better move on. That leads me back to the unworthiness part, which I hope you are right, is just humility and actually a good thing when all is said and done.

I was feeling quite low today about a lot of things and you helped to lift my spirits and I thank you. I was looking around for anyone who had posted in your thread, to find a Christian to talk to. Only one guy was online but he replied that he wasn't a Christian. He wasn't at all offended that I asked him in a u2u, then shortly after that your reply showed up. Again, thanks.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I just could not understand why ME, why did I have to deal with it.

If you were being targeted, it would've been to great advantage to the entity to convince you you're alone and crazy. Seems to have worked to some degree. Glad you were able to pull out of it.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
Of course in time I learned to stop dwelling on it, but I think the resentment part may come from the fact that no one believed me

I believe you...and can tell you some things to where you probably would not believe me.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
A mysterious fire started in a storage closet in the garage directly under her room around the time she passed away. Strage huh?

Hard to say. Did anyone find the cause of fire? What was in the storage closet? Other things kept in the garage?

Originally posted by Bumbeni
It was a time of total confusion. She was quite ill with cancer and was a Christian Scientist, so she had suffered horribly with breast cancer w/o ever seeing a doctor. The cancer actually worked it's way through the outer layer of her skin; I remember helping to change her dressings when I would come home from school, but we weren't very close. She was only close with my oldest sister.

I've lost a few family members to cancer even with doctor's help, though the chances of recovering are greater especially with early detection.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
That is interesting to me, about you having a harder time grasping the aspect of the Lord's strength being made perfect in our weakness. Funny thing is, I don't remember how many years ago it was, quite a few, but when I read that the first time, it was as if everything came into perfect alignment for me.

Sweet

Originally posted by Bumbeni
Suddenly the trials I had gone through weren't just bad memories anymore, they felt more like trophies then, like I had weathered the storm and still believed, I had been victorious. I suddenly felt I had been tried by fire for a purpose. I realized that I was fortunate to know the truth, and realized that nothing could ever shake my faith or beliefs. But being the pessimist that I am, I also began to feel a deep sadness and almost a sense of guilt, about why I was so fortunate to be a believer, and since then I always wonder why, are we believers chosen?

Oh no, I was afraid this question would come up eventually . This is one part where myself and some members of my church have some very passionate discussion (not heated or angry, just with feeling) with a flurry of scriptures, experiences and related references. A Presbyterian of the Calvinist teaching will likely say full-tilt everything is pre-destined. A Baptist relies heavily upon free will where we as believers choose God.

For me, I think it's like asking a husband this question, "Did you marry your wife, or did your wife marry you?" The answer is, the couple married each other. Being forced to choose one makes it really difficult to fully comprehend the relationship dynamics of love. More or less over time you've had affinities for each other and some attraction is generated until you come together.

We're the son/daughter who ran away from home. Of course our father loves us...but He lets us make our decision in the hopes we'll come home, as I see it.

It's a "middle of the road" kind of answer. There's a slight danger in believing we have no effect on our environment, which is spiritual laziness. Likewise there's a slight danger in believing that God had not been involved in connecting in the relationship. The consequence is not being able to appropriately use the tools God had given us of Faith, Hope and Love. That's the short answer as best as I can put together, but certainly wouldn't mind discussing specifics.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
Why do I believe but others will never believe, and so they are doomed?

Aha, you've stepped on one of the landmine dangers I'd just mentioned. By believing in total Free Will, we feel a sense of obligation that we have to go around saving everybody else they burn in hell. It is a needless worry and fear which overinflates our sense of self-importance. The answer is to listen to God, do your job as a saint (obedience), trust in God and He will ensure success.

The opposite landmine are those who forget obedience (doing their job) because "God will take care of it for me". Wrong answer. Fac et spera = do and hope.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
Well I am getting too wordy here better move on.

I'm having fun, hope you are too.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I was feeling quite low today about a lot of things and you helped to lift my spirits and I thank you. I was looking around for anyone who had posted in your thread, to find a Christian to talk to.

*writes a prescription for fellowship*

Originally posted by Bumbeni
Only one guy was online but he replied that he wasn't a Christian.

Happens a lot here. I had a person in my prayer group who suddenly lashed out at everyone misquoting scripture and implying we were servants of Satan O_o before storming off. Hokay, whatevah. May God lead them home.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
He wasn't at all offended that I asked him in a u2u, then shortly after that your reply showed up. Again, thanks.

Glad to help. It's a team effort. Feel free to U2U anytime as well if there's something you'd like to explore in great depth or not broadcast on the net.

[edit on 16-5-2008 by saint4God]

Actually I did u2u earlier today about something better discussed off thread, you just haven't looked at your mail I suspect.

I am on the fence about the free will thing. What scripture do you use for that? What about where Jesus says his sheep hear him? I really believe I was born with an innate belief in God, The Son and The Holy Ghost. I have no idea why I was, but I have known it as far back as my memory goes and I wasn't raised in church.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
Actually I did u2u earlier today about something better discussed off thread, you just haven't looked at your mail I suspect.

Done , may be away from PC for a few days though, friend is visiting.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I am on the fence about the free will thing. What scripture do you use for that?

Pro Free Will? Or Pro Predestination? There are multiple to support both. This is how I arrived at the conclusion that both are correct in a dynamic state.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
What about where Jesus says his sheep hear him?

I believe that's the ability to discern his voice versus a fraud or a theif. Surely the passage can mean more in many situations.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I really believe I was born with an innate belief in God, The Son and The Holy Ghost.

Could certainly be possible, yet I would like to assert you have the ability to choose or reject that belief at any and every time. This also can be supported Biblically.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I have no idea why I was, but I have known it as far back as my memory goes and I wasn't raised in church.

Awesome. A Presbyterian church (PCA moreso than PCUSA) can perhaps explain more as to why. They break it down with Justification, Sanctification, and so forth...like different stages of feeling you're a part of God and growing in the relationship.

I was an aggressive agnostic until shown otherwise. I also almost made a bad decision. I suppose one could argue God let me do it, but I do feel like I initiated my mistake and had I not cried out for His help, I would've been toast. Burnt and without butter.

[edit on 16-5-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by AshleyD


love the thread.. i think what they mean is what was done to the native americans, with slavery, and other cultures that were destroyed by early missionarys with the bible used as an excuse to do so, some of it as ordered buy the church christian and catholic, by people in leadership positions in the church by picking church dogma and ignoreing what jesus himself told us to do. a lot of good christians and catholics were swept up into the frenzy.. and anyone who disagreed was dealt with one way or the other.. while things have mellowed out a lot.. there still is the fact that if disagree with u'r pastor or congregation u face ostration, ridicule, and considered to be against the church and a devil worshiper... the last was from experiance.. so while i can say that not all christians r this way most of the congregations have been and continue to do so...


P.S this isnt meant as an attack on christianity,, just some facts that need to be faced honestly.. while i believe in jesus.. my faith in the church and its leaders isnt so great

go back even further and bible leads back to the sumerian 7 tablets of creation..

Originally posted by scorand
love the thread.. i think what they mean is what was done to the native americans, with slavery, and other cultures that were destroyed by early missionarys

By whom? Name one missionary who did these things. Pick up a history book starting with James K. Polk...and no he was not a missionary. As part native american, this twisted version of history you've laid out is disgraceful.

Originally posted by scorand
a lot of good christians and catholics were swept up into the frenzy..

Actually the good Christians were the ones who were not 'swept up into the frenzy'.

Originally posted by scorand
there still is the fact that if disagree with u'r pastor or congregation u face ostration, ridicule, and considered to be against the church and a devil worshiper...

I've disagreed with my pastor and congregation in a public forum and was not considered to be against the church and a devil worshiper. I'd actually become a member aftwards. Why is this?

Originally posted by scorand
P.S this isnt meant as an attack on christianity,,

No, not at all. Thanks for coming here to ask your question.

Originally posted by scorand
just some facts

May I state some opinions as 'fact' as well?

Originally posted by scorand
.. my faith in the church and its leaders isnt so great

Obviously. I understand you may have had a bad church experience. If the church was going against the Bible, I believe you did the right thing charting your own course...but in fairness, there are many many churches that do comply with the Word of God. Seek and you'll find, friend.

[edit on 19-5-2008 by saint4God]

Someone I am close to whom I have always known to be a Christian read the Davinci Code and afterwards informed me that she believes Jesus did in fact get married and have a child --- she explained that all young Jewish men were married when they reached adulthood, and that there is no way Jesus could have carried on in a village as a single man. She has other reasons why she believes he was married but the above was the main reason she gave. She believes all the stuff about the royal bloodline, etc. etc. She also told me she believes Jesus is the Son of God but that he was not born of a virgin. The thing I am curious about is, can a person believe that Jesus is the Son of God and accept Him as her Savior, but not believe the other divine truths, and still be saved? The bible only says He who believes in Me shall not perish. Does a person have to believe everything connected w/ Jesus to be saved?

Originally posted by Bumbeni
She has other reasons why she believes he was married but the above was the main reason she gave.

Wedge #1. This wedge is driven by those who claim a Rabbi must be married. Although a Rabbi is allowed to marry, I haven't heard yet that this was required for the title. Secondly, was this a title he chose? Or those who listened to him and called him that. Thirdly, do you believe the Sanhedrin made him a Rabbi? Fourthly, do you think anyone would allow a post-crucified Jesus to marry? Fifth - and travel to France? Six - With no one ever knowing? Etc.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
She believes all the stuff about the royal bloodline, etc. etc. She also told me she believes Jesus is the Son of God but that he was not born of a virgin.

Wedge #2, now she is no longer a believer it seems.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
The thing I am curious about is, can a person believe that Jesus is the Son of God and accept Him as her Savior, but not believe the other divine truths, and still be saved?

The problem is this. In order to believe that Jesus was not conceived by the holy spirit, one must say that John 1:1 (and dozens of other verses) are wrong. The Bible isn't a grocery store, you can't pick only the things that are tasty, you have other things to consider like your health.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
The bible only says He who believes in Me shall not perish. Does a person have to believe everything connected w/ Jesus to be saved?

Let's get back to basics. Everyone say with me...

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life..."

*pause* Hold up! Here's the part everyone leaves out...

"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." - John 3:18

"I came from the Father and entered the world; now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father." - John 16:28

This is not a metaphor. As soon as Mary told Joseph, Joseph began packing his bags:

"Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly" - Matthew 1:19

Angel goes "hold up Joe!" :

"But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit." - Matthew 1:20

Any of us can sling Bible verses all day saying that this was The Holy Spirt and Mary, but here is what happened to your friend. She read a fictional book (the author admits it is fiction) and she believes it over a factual Book that is the Word of God. If this doesn't strike her as a problem, then surely she needs help to see that.

[edit on 19-5-2008 by saint4God]

Hi, thanks for the reply. I think what happened was my friend had always had doubts about the miracles connected w/ Jesus, especially the virgin birth, then she read that book & it helped to cement those doubts and I think it sort of cleared her mind, as though she has the real story now. It is troubling to think how many thousands of people were misled by that book. I know the author calls it fiction but I saw him on tv a couple days ago, and I got the idea he believes in what he wrote. What he said was that he could not prove the things he wrote. But I think he believes them.

I wish I could talk to her more about this, but I have found out that I am not very good at witnessing for Christ. I don't mind when people ridicule me, but when they ridicule Jesus, the person who gave his life for them, I get a little hot under the collar.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
Hi, thanks for the reply.

Always a pleasure

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I think what happened was my friend had always had doubts about the miracles connected w/ Jesus, especially the virgin birth, then she read that book & it helped to cement those doubts and I think it sort of cleared her mind, as though she has the real story now.

A very good observation I think and explains what Christ is saying here:

"Listen! A farmer went out to sow his seed. As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants, so that they did not bear grain. Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up, grew and produced a crop, multiplying thirty, sixty, or even a hundred times." - Mark 4:3-8

Originally posted by Bumbeni
It is troubling to think how many thousands of people were misled by that book.

As you've mentioned, there are people who are seeking justification to what they believe instead of believing what the Bible says. If not for this Davinci fiction book, do you think some other birds would've come along?

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I know the author calls it fiction but I saw him on tv a couple days ago, and I got the idea he believes in what he wrote. What he said was that he could not prove the things he wrote. But I think he believes them.

I got the same impression.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I wish I could talk to her more about this, but I have found out that I am not very good at witnessing for Christ.

Be a friend first. Pray to God to give you the opportunity. It will come up, be prepared. Remember how Christ talked to his disciples. It wasn't out of anger, self-righteousness, or impatience. Do you know how to take someone on a tour through heaven, mankind's problem, God, Jesus and Faith like he did? If not, we can talk about it in U2U.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I don't mind when people ridicule me, but when they ridicule Jesus, the person who gave his life for them, I get a little hot under the collar.

There are many non-believers who don't understand why this is. I'd like to ask them, "do you know how you'd feel if someone talked about your mother in a degrading way? Well, consider that only to the extent of the person who made you everything that you are." I understand we may feel upset, but compassion is the trump card. I for one, was not born a believer. I was a skeptic who required and demanded answers. In my cursing I would demand, "God D*mmit!" among other inappropriate slurs. Instead of God turning to me and replying, "No, God now damns you!" *blast*, He sat back and let me hear myself say it over and over again. The coals were heaping on my head every time until I collapsed under the fiery weight realizing what I'd done. Sometimes silence speaks louder than words. Sometimes we need to reach beyond that and say, "wow, sounds like you're really upset at God." More than likely they'll brush it off "it's just a saying" and you can nod. For just a brief moment however, you've given pause to think about what was said.

[edit on 19-5-2008 by saint4God]

Would the miracles preformed by Jesus be considered paranormal?

I have never really understood that parable about the seed, the farmer. Are you comparing the book author to the farmer? I enjoy the parables of Jesus but that is one that always perplexes me. I am not sure who is the farmer, who/what is the "seed" etc?

My "friend" is really my sister, and I am very sad that she has eyes but does not see, has ears but does not hear. Yet she is a brilliant college professor, the smartest one of all of us kids. I know that I don't have the words to change her mind, ever. She's too "intellectual" for me to have any influence.

She goes to church, she is kind and generous, honest, and she does believe in Jesus and accepts him as Lord. I can't imagine a person like that being sent to the other place, I don't even like to say the word.

Originally posted by earthman4
Would the miracles preformed by Jesus be considered paranormal?

Absolutely! When I was replying about about The Holy Spirit, it doesn't get more paranormal than a Ghost of absolute Good.

On paranormal:

Main Entry: para·nor·mal
Function: adjective
Date: circa 1920
: not scientifically explainable : supernatural

www.merriam-webster.com...

Turning water into wine without the addition of grapes fails any method of chemical formulation. Walking on water defies the elements of mass and density. Resurrecting from the dead after many days has never been seen anywhere else biologically. Making the blind see...well, we can kinda do that with instruments and procedures...but can you do it with spit and mud? Creating a person from one woman and a spirit...that breeches the realm of any dimensional understanding. The list goes on and on. When you tell a non-believer that Jesus was born from God, lived in the flesh, died and rose to heaven, is it any wonder they look at you like you have three-heads?

[edit on 19-5-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I have never really understood that parable about the seed, the farmer.

Parables are tricky. The best way to understand them is with a group of people reading it and talking about it. It helps consider the different viewpoints and zone in on the meaning.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
Are you comparing the book author to the farmer? I enjoy the parables of Jesus but that is one that always perplexes me. I am not sure who is the farmer, who/what is the "seed" etc?

The farmer is God. The Word of Christ are the seeds. We're the types of ground. The author would be a bird in this case. All debateable, surely but would go something like this:

God sends the seed/Word (through Christ). This seed lands upon us. Some of us are the path. Hard, unaccepting. Easy pickings for the bird...those who take the seed away from us. Shallow ground are those who are excited by the word at first, but then when the heat is on (the sun comes up) they fold and give up the faith. The ground with thorns (always being around those seeking sin or to harm you spiritually) causes one to fall into that trap of sin again, choked off from God. The furtile soil is the believer who accepts the word, grows deeply with it, lives with it every day, weathers all storms, and perseveres under the spiritual attack. Only after that will they bear fruit...the food that feeds others and gives back to God.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
My "friend" is really my sister, and I am very sad that she has eyes but does not see, has ears but does not hear. Yet she is a brilliant college professor, the smartest one of all of us kids.

I would be careful not to confuse wisdom with intelligence.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I know that I don't have the words to change her mind, ever.

It is not your job to change her mind. Do you want her to become a "Bumbenitarian"? It's you're job to deliver the message and the Holy Spirit's job to give her the faith and repentance she needs to approach the Throne.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
She's too "intellectual" for me to have any influence.

Then you've already failed. Have you forgotten that God is your strength? We're talking about the same Being that made heaven and earth, raises people from the dead, and parts the sea to save His people. Are you saying you are the stumbling block that God cannot move? He'll provide the opportunity. Ask Him to give you the words for when the opportunity presents.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
She goes to church, she is kind and generous, honest, and she does believe in Jesus and accepts him as Lord. I can't imagine a person like that being sent to the other place, I don't even like to say the word.

Family affects us most, and it should. We have the most opportunity to help the people we're close to. You're her brother for a reason, and vice-versa. You're to carry each other when you fall. I know what the wrong answer is - to cut them off and put distance between you. I know this because I did this to both my aunt and sister for many years instead of offering forgiveness and patience. I'm glad that today I can say we've become family again. It certainly could've been too late. Nothing is more expensive than regret.

Worry is founded upon fear, and is the opposite of hope. Hope is one of the three tools Paul tells us about in Corinthians - hope, faith, and love. Faith builds hope. Hope builds faith. Love builds hope. Use all three.

"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?
"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." - Matthew 6:25-34

Well I understand that parable finally, thank you. You did a good job explaning that, maybe you should write a "Bible for Dummies" book?

haha no I certainly don't want anyone to be a Bumbenitarian! I just get the idea she is very comfortable in her beliefs now, and she thinks I am being "holier than thou" if I try to explain to her why I believe in divine miracles of Jesus. I have not been using the internet very long, just a couple of years, and in that time I have realized how many millions of people don't believe. It was a shock to me, I had no idea there were so many nonbelievers.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
Well I understand that parable finally, thank you. You did a good job explaning that, maybe you should write a "Bible for Dummies" book?

I do have a lot of experience being a dummy ...now if only I could really get that whole Bible comprehension thing down.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
haha no I certainly don't want anyone to be a Bumbenitarian! I just get the idea she is very comfortable in her beliefs now, and she thinks I am being "holier than thou" if I try to explain to her why I believe in divine miracles of Jesus.

Faith isn't a race or a contest...but patience and compassion are sure to win hearts.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
I have not been using the internet very long, just a couple of years, and in that time I have realized how many millions of people don't believe. It was a shock to me, I had no idea there were so many nonbelievers.

That wasn't as shocking to me as how few people had experience with demons/Satan. I came here expecting to hear many similar tales, but there's actually only a small handful who were as aggressively foolish as I was. ATS is healthy for a believer because many believers tend to hang out with other believers over time whether realizing it or not. It has a lot to do with common interests. I wouldn't walk into a casino and expect to meet a priest, for example. We're not to abandon any non-believing friends...in fact, we should seek them out as actively as we seek out believing friends. Preaching to the choir gets ya the "amens" but it's only making yourself feel good

You mentioned being foolish, is that in connection with the paranormal? Is your "story" here on this thread?

Originally posted by Bumbeni
You mentioned being foolish, is that in connection with the paranormal?

Yep. I used to be an aggressive athiest/agnostic (flip-flopped between the two). I believed one of two scenarios existed:

A.) What you see is what you get. When you die, that's it. Nothingness, you simply cease to exist. When considering eternity, the 70 + - years here on earth means nothing as well therefore life is meaningless.

or

B.) Something does exist beyond the human realm and it was messing with me by failing to prove its existance.

The 'aggressive' part was acting upon the above assumptions in an attempt to prove it true...which is where the foolishness came into play.

Originally posted by Bumbeni
Is your "story" here on this thread?

No, though I had posted it once before. Realizing it provided no benefit I had not repeated the overview. I'd also make the mistake of giving too much detail one time to someone only to find out the other person wanted to try the same, did so, and ended up on a very steep downhill like I did. I hope he pulled out of it since I hadn't heard from him after the ordeal went full-steam. It's a lot to put on one person's conscious.

[edit on 20-5-2008 by saint4God]