Ask a Christian (even about the paranormal)

Originally posted by Balez
However i do believe they are a bit different

Unless all angels are demons from the begining

Other way around as it is written. Demons are ex-angels. There's no record of the reverse occurring.

Originally posted by Balez
No i dont believe that, i do believe that the fallen ones are staying out of both Satans and Gods buisness, and from a strategic standpoint, Satan would lose alot from attacking them, and then he would be open from attack from God and his angels.

This seems to underestimates both the leadership, authority and power of Satan. A bit dangerous, I wouldn't call what seems to be a bluff.

Originally posted by Balez
I'll U2U you 3 of the events

Looking forward to it.

Originally posted by Balez
Sorry, i forgot about the religious interpretation of that term

Still, the real nercomancy is used by very bad people with twisted conceptions of what they are doing.

Hmm...not necessarily. I have meant plenty who are doing so to try to help friends and loved ones. The conceptions are probably misconceptions, but wouldn't go as far as saying they're any more 'bad' and 'twisted' than you or I on a daily basis. This is by no means a way to justify either they or us are 'good', rather the opposite.

Originally posted by Balez
We could classify necromancy in three stages.

1. Summoning a spirit to instill in an object (Ouija boards exculded since the spirit is not trapped).
2. Summoning a spirit/poltergeist to take over a dead animal/human body.
3. Summoning a poltergeist/demon to take over a living being, animal/human.

These are the three main uses for real necromancy.

There's more than listed here, but these are three things that can be done.

Originally posted by Balez
Agreed with 110%

[edit on 25-3-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by Balez
I have to agree with you on Lucifers name, however i thought it went something like "The bringer of light" taken from a morning star.

We have a masquerader in our midsts! Jesus is the light, prince of peace, but Lucifer acts like he's the one:

"And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve." - 2 Corinthians 11:14-15

Originally posted by Balez
Well, some of the episodes in the bible are a bit jumbled up imo.
I still believe them to be two different entities.

"He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years." - Revelation 20:2

Originally posted by Balez
Or did the bible start with the fall of the angels?

The Bible was more focused on telling the human history from a chronological standpoint. When we started scratching our heads saying "I don't get it", that's when we were clued in on what's been going on in the universe.

It wasn't until the last book of the Bible that we get a more complete story:

"And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back." - Revelation 12:7

"The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him." - Revelation 12:9

Job is said to be one of the oldest books of the Bible. I don't know if it's true or not, but we can see where Satan tries to go toe to toe with God:

"One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them." - Job 1:6

Is Satan bound in Hell? Nope, not at all.

"The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."" - Job 1:7

Originally posted by Balez
Was a very long time since i read the bible, perhaps i have to refresh my memory a bit.

Piecing together a chronology of angels and demons isn't easy because it wasn't the intention of the Bible. The Bible was not meant to explain the whole universe to humankind. It was intended to give humankind the direction necessary to establish their own relationship with God.

Originally posted by Balez
And something else i find difficult to accept is that a being who is supposedly to have been 'good' turn to pure evil.

Ah yes, the ability to choose comes back to haunt us yet again.

Originally posted by Balez
Now i dont know how angels think, but it sounds improbable to me.
Unless he was instabil and got psychotic.

Could be, but doubt it. There's plenty of evidence to suggest angels can make decisions just like humans. God apparently does not involve mindslaves in the business of his kingdom.

[edit on 25-3-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God

This seems to underestimates both the leadership, authority and power of Satan. A bit dangerous, I wouldn't call what seems to be a bluff.

Ofcourse not, no one should never put themself in the way of Satan, no matter what, what you and I believe may be different, but that is what belief is about...

Hmm...not necessarily. I have meant plenty who are doing so to try to help friends and loved ones. The concepttions are probably misconceptions, but wouldn't go as far as saying they're any more 'bad' and 'twisted' than you or I on a daily basis.

Still this is a litteral view of a word, you go by what the religious term means, i do not.
The christian view is that all contact with the 'dead' no matter what it is, is necromancy.

There's more than listed here, but these are three things that can be done.

Yes there are, but they all use the same three ingredients, that why i classed them in three stages

I see a difference however on certain contact methods and necromancy, necromancy is usually never used for contact, it's used for instilling objects or dead and alive animals / humans with the spirit, to put a spirit or anything stronger in an object is more or less a curse.

What my remark about being twisted and bad was about these three parts, usual contact i.e trough a Oiuja board could be dangerous, but you are not putting the spirit in a dead or alive object and trapping it there.

A spirit is a spirit no matter what it's classification is, they are dead for a purpose and should, Not be brought back to life.
It is twisted and perversed.

As you see, i view necromancy in another way than what the religious term is.

Back to the ex-angels thing....
I have friends who i believe are a bit, crazy, they experiement with summoning demons.
I have warned them on several occasions not to do that.
They dont listen.

However they seem to have succeeded in doing that (and surprisingly they are still alive) and also gotten some answers, demons however lie alot, but this demon in question said that their race was not angelic in origin, and this demon claimed that their race was in existance before the angelic race.
They asked for it's name, but the only thing they got were a few growls
That could mean that their names mean power over them.

If we wish to believe this is up to each and everyone to judge for themself.

Anyways, i'll stop rambling now....

Originally posted by Balez
Still this is a litteral view of a word, you go by what the religious term means, i do not.

I didn't give a definition, merely stating necromancy is more than these three things.

Originally posted by Balez
The christian view is that all contact with the 'dead' no matter what it is, is necromancy.

Necromancy literally means: Dead Magic. The dictionary says:

1 : conjuration of the spirits of the dead for purposes of magically revealing the future or influencing the course of events.

www.merriam-webster.com...

I think it's important when we're using these terms to establish where we're getting the definition.

Originally posted by Balez
Yes there are, but they all use the same three ingredients, that why i classed them in three stages

Okay, just wanted to be sure we weren't drawing boudaries around something so broad.

Originally posted by Balez
Back to the ex-angels thing....
I have friends who i believe are a bit, crazy, they experiement with summoning demons.
I have warned them on several occasions not to do that.
They dont listen.

Usually the case. Many of us are "see to believe" kind of people. I know I was.

Originally posted by Balez
However they seem to have succeeded in doing that (and surprisingly they are still alive) and also gotten some answers, demons however lie alot, but this demon in question said that their race was not angelic in origin, and this demon claimed that their race was in existance before the angelic race.

What better way to hide a heritage than to deny it? As you'd said in your preface, "demons however lie alot".

Originally posted by Balez
They asked for it's name, but the only thing they got were a few growls

That could mean that their names mean power over them.

It's a foolhearty thing, to think one can control a demon by merely knowing it's name. If that were true, Satan/Lucifer/the Devil would be puppet-controlled by everyone...which clearly he's not.

Originally posted by Balez
If we wish to believe this is up to each and everyone to judge for themself.

Anyways, i'll stop rambling now....

I don't think it's rambling. Having detailed discussion is improtant.

reply to post by saint4God

It's a foolhearty thing, to think one can control a demon by merely knowing it's name. If that were true, Satan/Lucifer/the Devil would be puppet-controlled by everyone...which clearly he's not.

There are alot that suggests that demons can be bound with name magic.
This is where I believe the difference is between demons and ex-angels.
And then we have "legion" called so by what they claim "we are many".

What better way to hide a heritage than to deny it? As you'd said in your preface, "demons however lie alot".

This is the part i dont understand, what does it matter, one way or another? We have the bible as a historical record when it is about this, we supposedly already know their heritage, however i will not claim to know what a demon think....

Necromancy literally means: Dead Magic. The dictionary says:

Yes i know that, which has been inspired from a religious standpoint.

Litteral meaning:
Necromancy comes from the word "nekromanteia" and "nekro" means corpse, "manteia" divination (late latin).
Corpse Divinitation
Source

You and me, we have our differences, we have our own convictions, both i guess are from experience, but one mans experience is not the same as the next man.

I've read alot of books, some of them are what people would call "black magic" or "dark arts" much of my knowledge comes from these books, many of the meanings in those books have not the same meaning as a word has today.
If someone wish to work with books like these, they better well know what they mean, or either it will not work, or they will do something that is terribly wrong.

Some of them are just jibberish and nothing works in them, but some of them are very very dangerous, just reading one of the books i opened, you really needed willpower...
Still i always tell people to not go for a goal like these books since it is unhealthy in any way, like joining a Satanical cult is, you wont notice it untill it is too late.

Hey all, sorry I haven't been around the last few days. I've been sick and needed to work a lot of overtime. An ugly combination. Not better yet, but at least work as calmed a bit. Thanks for your patience.

Originally posted by Balez
There are alot that suggests that demons can be bound with name magic.
This is where I believe the difference is between demons and ex-angels.
And then we have "legion" called so by what they claim "we are many".

Which brings up a good point. Why would they freely offer up their name if it means giving up control? That'd be very undemon/unexangel like, wouldn't you think? If one considers mere age of a demon/ex-angel, would not at least some knowledge or beguiled-wisdom come with that?

Originally posted by Balez
This is the part i dont understand, what does it matter, one way or another? We have the bible as a historical record when it is about this, we supposedly already know their heritage, however i will not claim to know what a demon think....

Same here. It does matter however if one believes a demon is telling the truth and in truth it is not. It matters a lot.

Originally posted by Balez
Yes i know that, which has been inspired from a religious standpoint.

We'll have to start a thread: The Dictionary, A Religious Conspiracy

Originally posted by Balez
Litteral meaning:
Necromancy comes from the word "nekromanteia" and "nekro" means corpse, "manteia" divination (late latin).
Corpse Divinitation
Source

A dictionary that gives horoscopes, that's interesting. Actually though, the definition from there is the same as what I'd quoted above:

"1. The practice of supposedly communicating with the spirits of the dead in order to predict the future. 2. Black magic; sorcery.
3. Magic qualities."

www.thefreedictionary.com...

What surprises me is next to the word is this picture of a 'witch riding a broom' :



That's liable to offend someone.

Originally posted by Balez
You and me, we have our differences, we have our own convictions, both i guess are from experience, but one mans experience is not the same as the next man.

T'is one of the beauties of life's journey.

Originally posted by Balez
I've read alot of books, some of them are what people would call "black magic" or "dark arts" much of my knowledge comes from these books, many of the meanings in those books have not the same meaning as a word has today.

I'm not quick to dismiss the contents of those books (because of religious bias or otherwise). I've seen a lot of 'crazy shiitake go down' to not brush it off because of only what I've read or heard of. In fact, much of it provides confirmation of my beliefs.

Originally posted by Balez
If someone wish to work with books like these, they better well know what they mean, or either it will not work, or they will do something that is terribly wrong.

Some of them are just jibberish and nothing works in them, but some of them are very very dangerous, just reading one of the books i opened, you really needed willpower...

I appreciate this warning. Hopefully it will be heard since it's coming from both sides.

Originally posted by Balez
Still i always tell people to not go for a goal like these books since it is unhealthy in any way, like joining a Satanical cult is, you wont notice it untill it is too late.

Funny you should mention that. That's exactly what I was pursuing B.C. I suppose it wasn't too late for me though I was being treated as if it were.

[edit on 27-3-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God

Which brings up a good point. Why would they freely offer up their name if it means giving up control? That'd be very undemon/unexangel like, wouldn't you think? If one considers mere age of a demon/ex-angel, would not at least some knowledge or beguiled-wisdom come with that?

Well they dont really give their name up freely and atleast not the whole name.
Yes that is very uncomonlike for an angel, which is why i believe that demons are not ex-angels.
Which is why that everytime someone has contact with a demon they will never get the demons real name, only torture will give that...

Same here. It does matter however if one believes a demon is telling the truth and in truth it is not. It matters a lot.

The only ones affected here would be the christians, if the demon would be telling the truth

We'll have to start a thread: The Dictionary, A Religious Conspiracy

Haha, that is a good idea... perhaps we will do that at some time.
If you think of it, how much has religion influenced our way of thinking? And could that have been put in books depending on our thinking in religious terms or not?
Would be interesting to know what we would find out....

A dictionary that gives horoscopes, that's interesting. Actually though, the definition from there is the same as what I'd quoted above:

It is not really a definition of the word, it is an association of the word, big difference.
The definition of the word is "Corpse Divinitation" .
That is the meaning of the word necromancy, litteraly.
But it is associated with other types of black magic, rites and so on.
That is what i meant with the religious terminology of the word, because the word in itself does not mean more than corpse divination.

And to know what that term exactly means.... you need to read some scary books, which now when i think of it, i explained on my previous post like this:

I've read alot of books, some of them are what people would call "black magic" or "dark arts" much of my knowledge comes from these books, many of the meanings in those books have not the same meaning as a word has today.

And when you read some of these books, you really need the full meaning of the word, not what it is associated with, but the meaning and the understanding of it.
And also, where it came from and how it was used to be able to use it.

It is not simple....

Originally posted by Balez
Well they dont really give their name up freely and atleast not the whole name.
Yes that is very uncomonlike for an angel, which is why i believe that demons are not ex-angels.
Which is why that everytime someone has contact with a demon they will never get the demons real name, only torture will give that...

And a mere mortal can somehow summon powers to harm the immortal? Humans give loads of information when tortured because we fear death, have a family, want to live life like normal. An immortal being would be much less likely to give up eternal control I'd think, even under temporary sufferage.

Originally posted by Balez
The only ones affected here would be the christians, if the demon would be telling the truth

All the best with that thinking. It matters not to believers in God, they're already protected. The prone targets (such as I was before being a believer) have much more to be concerned about.

Originally posted by Balez
Haha, that is a good idea... perhaps we will do that at some time.

Originally posted by Balez
If you think of it, how much has religion influenced our way of thinking? And could that have been put in books depending on our thinking in religious terms or not?
Would be interesting to know what we would find out....

A good study without a doubt.

Originally posted by Balez
It is not really a definition of the word, it is an association of the word, big difference. The definition of the word is "Corpse Divinitation" .
That is the meaning of the word necromancy, litteraly.

Mancy is divination, but divination is one kind of magick. A supermarket isn't an apple-store per say. The word has grown from its literal translation it seems. For literal translation, you win the point certainly. My concern is more or less with the actual practices.

[edit on 1-4-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God

And a mere mortal can somehow summon powers to harm the immortal? Humans give loads of information when tortured because we fear death, have a family, want to live life like normal. An immortal being would be much less likely to give up eternal control I'd think, even under temporary sufferage.

Who has said that demons are immortal?
Perhaps if they were ex-angels that would be true, however we dont know what the truth is, we 'believe' it to the be truth.
However, the real truth might be very different from what the bible claims

All the best with that thinking. It matters not to believers in God, they're already protected. The prone targets (such as I was before being a believer) have much more to be concerned about.

I think you misunderstood me a bit there....
What i meant was that if there were some way to prove that demons are not ex-angel's, the claim from the bible that they were would be untrue, and that is were the christians would have problem to explain, not only that, where would the real ex-angels be?
As a believer, that would not be a problem for you?

Mancy is divination, but divination is one kind of magick. A supermarket isn't an apple-store per say. The word has grown from its literal translation it seems. For literal translation, you win the point certainly. My concern is more or less with the actual practices.

Agreed on that.
Some practices should not be tried, or even thought about.

My point was not about to win the argument, it was to show you that, confusing the terms at times, or think them to be something they are not, could be very dangerous.
As i know that you would not touch any of the practices, my point was more directed to those who read this, and have the notion of trying...

Always interesting and fun to talk with you

Originally posted by Balez
Who has said that demons are immortal?

Didn't realize this was in dispute. They're procreating mortals then? Or have all died off?

Originally posted by Balez
I think you misunderstood me a bit there....
What i meant was that if there were some way to prove that demons are not ex-angel's, the claim from the bible that they were would be untrue, and that is were the christians would have problem to explain, not only that, where would the real ex-angels be?
As a believer, that would not be a problem for you?

Ah, thought you meant demons were a problem for Christians (since we believe they exist). I think I did misunderstand. To this point, yes, it would be a problem if the Bible made a claim that was untrue. The error would need to be sourced.

Originally posted by Balez
Agreed on that.
Some practices should not be tried, or even thought about.

My point was not about to win the argument, it was to show you that, confusing the terms at times, or think them to be something they are not, could be very dangerous.

I dig it.

Originally posted by Balez
As i know that you would not touch any of the practices, my point was more directed to those who read this, and have the notion of trying...

Always interesting and fun to talk with you

Along a similar line, I'd made the mistake of sharing details of my past to a person here on ATS. Though they told me they would not do something so "stupid" (as I called it), they did. I believe their motive was to extract that information from me to give it a try. Althought that intent was likely there from the beginning, I cannot help but feel responsible for providing those details.

[edit on 1-4-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God

Didn't realize this was in dispute. They're procreating mortals then? Or have all died off?

I would not call them mortals, they live for a very long time, because they can die, it's just not what is death to us, and no, they do no procreate.
Dont forget that this is only my theory of demons, it could be right, it could be wrong.

Along a similar line, I'd made the mistake of sharing details of my past to a person here on ATS. Though they told me they would not do something so "stupid" (as I called it), they did. I believe their motive was to extract that information from me to give it a try. Althought that intent was likely there from the beginning, I cannot help but feel responsible for providing those details.

No need to feel guilty about it though
If they would not have gotten it from you, they certinly would have found it somewhere else.

I know about a site that is, dedicated to the paranormal, and only that.
The users on their forum is very serious about their beliefs in what they do, however you need to be a member for some time and prove that you are equally serious to share your knowledge, then you get access to some really good material.

Originally posted by Balez
I would not call them mortals, they live for a very long time, because they can die,

Gotcha, but even still you'd think they'd learned a bit more about human savvy and intuition during that time to ensure humans cannot control or destroy them.

This seems to be a difference, since Christianity states they exist forever:

"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever." - Revelation 20:10

Originally posted by Balez
it's just not what is death to us, and no, they do no procreate.

Are you suuuuure? (why yes, I intent to throw a curveball after the answer. Should be fun for believers and non-believers alike)

Originally posted by Balez
Dont forget that this is only my theory of demons, it could be right, it could be wrong.

I think one of the highlights of our discussion is how flexible we are to consider things on both sides of the fence. I know I don't have all the answers and probably intentionally so. (not sure I'd want all the answers, that'd make life really difficult to accomodate everyone seeking them)

Originally posted by Balez
No need to feel guilty about it though

If they would not have gotten it from you, they certinly would have found it somewhere else.

I've told myself that...though wouldn't classify the information as common. I came to ATS with the assumption that everyone new this stuff and was surprised to find otherwise. Hopefully if anything through the course of my time here I've learned how to be helpful and use better discretion.

Originally posted by Balez
I know about a site that is, dedicated to the paranormal, and only that.
The users on their forum is very serious about their beliefs in what they do, however you need to be a member for some time and prove that you are equally serious to share your knowledge, then you get access to some really good material.

Although I understand the concept, I don't really believe in 'proving my worth'. The person I am now is the same as the person who first joined in most regards. I've intentionally not gone into ATS' special/secret access forums. If it can be said there, it should be able to be said here. It'd be a bit hypocritical to whine/cry about secret conspiracies while at the same time hosting one. Have I bit the hand that feeds me hard enough yet? Love you guys.

Originally posted by sizzle
Many acts were done in the name of Christianity, but not necessarily by true Christians. "Wolves come in sheeps clothing." "Many shall come in My Name, but are not of Me." _Jesus Christ

This advice applies just as well (if not moreso) to the hordes of "Mary Whitehouse Christians" and save-your-soul-by-making-your-earthly-life-hell sadists than it does to channeled spiritual entities.

Quite frankly, the negative emphasis given to arcane science (i.e. "the occult") by certain types of Christians is counterproductive. I have seen people who have been helped by Ouija boards, Tarot cards, "unholy" spirits, Native American sweat lodges, and the like. Yes, there are evil spiritual entities floating around, and there are also ways to protect yourself from them. How do we know that someone like Pat Robertson or Jack Chick is not possessed by a demon claiming to be Jesus? Maybe they want us to rush in and go blindly experimenting with arcana to provide fodder for their fellow demons? The old Forbidden Fruit ploy, remember?

A simple question here. Do dogs have souls?

First of saint4God thanks for taking the time to answers everyone questions, i just have a few questions.

1: In the bible its states the world and humans where created around 6000 years ago (4000BC) in the time of Creation, and Adam and Eve...etc. Also evangelist records state Adam was the first man (Luke 3:38). So how do you explain

a. 475 million years ago there was plant life on earth, thats a extremely long time to exist without sun light as is was only in 4000BC when in the first days of creation God created light.

b. Who created the dinosuars, reptiles, proto-amphibians, arthropods and multicellular life as they where here on earth 100+ million years ago ?

c. How come there is no mention of dinosuars, reptiles, proto-amphibians, arthropods and multicellular life in the bible among other things ?. It makes no
sense if God created these things to leave them from his official written word.

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
Yes it does, but IIRC little to say about people of good character, aside from the issue of faith and good works. The old faith alone vs. good works conflict which was a one of many causes of the Protestant-Catholic split.

It did, and I for one think it's time for the split to be over. It's long overdue, both Paul and the book of James seems to agree.

Most of the mainstream churches have been moving closer, and coming to agreements over principles. It's not like the "damn the heretics from the other church" days. It's very possible that the Catholic and Protestant churches will literally come together, maybe not in our lifetimes, but eventually.

Islam could be another mover for this. A huge influx of Muslims to majority-Christian countries may spark the Christians into seeing themselves not as Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox, Mormons, etc. but simply as Christians. (Focus on similarities not differences.) Even Jews might be drawn into this, but less likely. This will be true even if Christians and Muslims coexist peacefully (which I hope).

(Note, I said that I was a pagan, not an atheist!)

Yep, I'm familiar with the differences.

Good. Many people aren't.

Whoever is in charge of the Universe decides - not us. It is up to us to find out what those rules are, and follow them the best we can. All religions claim to be the right one, to have the truth, and all that.

Yes, but just because all claim this does not mean none are right.

The problem now is finding which one is right - or which ones are right. It is possible to be e.g. a Confucian and Buddhist at the same time, without contradicting the principles of either religion. Most East Asians are. It is only the Judeo-Christian-Islamic religions that claim exclusive truth.

Religion is not science. It is impossible to conduct objective tests and prove that (e.g.) Sikhism is right, and Zoroastrianism is not. Religion is highly personal too, which leads into my earlier statement that some belief systems are right for some people but not others.

Just being born into a particular religion is no proof that one is right. I say this because I have heard so many people tell me essentially that - that they have found the right god and religion because they happened to be born into that family/tribal environment.

I'll agree with this. Also interesting to note that no-one is born Christian. You have to be born-again

in the faith.

You'll have to agree that most so-called Christians are too lazy to do that. I'm not sure if "lazy" is the right word though. Religion is a large part of tribalism, and most people automatically accept what they were born into, with perhaps a little teenage dabbling into "spiritual fads" but no serious
critical evaluation.

There is also plenty of hidden racism here, which is not surprising since tribalism is the root of racism. People of all races are so shocked when a white person converts to Buddhism, but find it acceptable for non-whites to convert to Christianity. Buddhism and Christianity are both universal religions with no ethnic affiliation.

They did violate so many of the commandments of their own God (especially "thou shalt not kill/murder" many times over.)

Agreed again. But, how many times have you and I violated God's law? I can't wag my finger to you, but I can at myself. I'd say several times a day. A sin is a sin, no matter how great or small. For example, I've gotten briefly angry this morning on the way to work:

Does it also matter the type of sin? I know the Roman Catholic church classifies them into Venial and Mortal, but that is just the doctrine of one church.

This is a strong personal matter to me, as I feel that Christians, Christianity, and purportedly-secular society put too much emphasis on judging people for the spiritual equivalent of victimless crimes. Examples are idolatry, sorcery, blasphemy, and sexual unorthodoxy. It's like the teacher who really cracks down on gum-chewing - but turns a blind eye to bullying, and may even encourage the bullies to beat up gum-chewers. Part of this is cowardice.

I know, I am not God, and cannot speak for him or know his rules. But I do know how I feel towards that teacher (or an equivalent authority figure) as I limp home bleeding. Hopefully you can relate.

Simply put, my question is this. What makes you think you are right?

"Ask a christian" seems to imply that you are a guru of sorts, and that you are here parading around your knowledge, which in your opinion is more profound than let's say.... Muslim knowledge... and you're understandably proud of your faith, as you've been conditioned to be no doubt. I just get an atmosphere of aloofness here. Like "Christians really do have all the answers. Look here and you'll see!"

Another question. What if your religion is what's wrong with the world and you had undeniable proof sitting in your face? ...which....ehem..... well nevermind.... but What would you do, if that were the case? Would you be able to accept that this thing you gave up your whole life's meaning to was actually just a control mechanism to keep you ignorant from the truth?

I don't think you would be able to face the truth.

THE TRUTH is what we're here for, is it not?

Or maybe it's just to push our own agendas or our own musings on why our "what the truth might be" is even truthier than someone else's "what the truth might be" is.

In the end, FAITH is based on lack of evidence, taking somebody else's word for it. Who's word are you taking? The word of an organization with THAT kind of bloody unholy track record? They wrote the Bible.....and also killed anyone who didn't read and worship what it was about.... and the Bible is what you base all of your faith and your "evidence" of your faith's supposed power and goodwill....

You've defeated your own thread by just simply stating that you are Christian, and therefore interpretting reality with a pre-set filter that blocks out any bits of reality that do not fit in with what your filter will allow through.

So, NuHup was very astute in his observation that asking a Christian about the universe is like talking to a wall or a tree.... no it's worse than that, because at least the wall and the tree don't try to justify gullibility with complicated lies they tell themselves and everyone around them. Maybe the trees give us the best answer. What is the universe? No response.

Figure it out for yourself.

NOTE: I really don't understand why philosophy alone hasn't had the ability to silence this myth that is the story of Christianity already. If you are born of the flesh, Son of God or not, you are still experiencing humanity through human senses, so right away, you are born with filters. Everyone is. Unless jesus was just wearing a human suit and was some bizarre thing living inside, I'd say he still approached the philosophy behind his preachings in a very human way, and therefore, a very filtered and skewed way.

The only way to be perfect is not to be at all.

We worship things because we think they are more perfected than us... but we should really be worshipping ourselves because imperfection is the reason we exist.


Be ye not GOD???

Originally posted by Corum
A simple question here. Do dogs have souls?

Oh I love this one! I seriously doubt a room full of believers (or anyone) would agree on the answer. I think I know where this is going too. The Bible mentions dogs 40 times, but within them most are analogies. Simply put, the Bible doesn't say.

On to branching thought then and let's round about think on the situation. On many near-death experiences, we hear about those who were reunited with lost loved-ones including pets. Interesting. Point 1 for "yes". Can dogs make a decision between 'right' and 'wrong' as they see it? Well, dog owners would more than likely also say "yes". Does a dog have the ability to rationalize, consider long-term consequences, and other forms of what we consider humanlike sentient thought? A point for "no". Is a dog confronted with the eternal question of accepting Jesus Christ as their personal savior and being cleansed of their sins? Not that we can tell. So...where does this leave us?

In Revelation, there's no "judgement of the animals". It means one of two things as I see it:

1.) It's none of our business.

or

2.) Animals are not judged.

Out of the two, I'm more persuaded by the second. IF they have a soul, does that mean all dogs go to heaven? Or all get tossed into eternal fire?

Here's the thing. The big difference between humankind and animalkind is the ability to choose or reject their relationship with God. It seems in the dog world this is static. Angels work hard to please God. A lot of dogs work hard to please their mortal masters. Could it be they follow us where we go? I could spend a whole thread on this, but I digress. I don't want to give my conclusion (I do have one, just not sharing yet) until I get to hear from the other folks on the thread...so please pipe up .

saint4God, id hate to think you are avoiding my questions ?

Im still waiting