New Abu Ghraib Images (WARNING: very disturbing)

these are low class uneducated losers. just look at the folks doing the torture, the come from trailer trash, haven't got laid in the last 5 years people. it does not surprise me, what do expect form these individuals.

this is disgusting.
I don't believe that commanders forced the prison guards to
take pictures with corpses while smiling and giving a thumbs up.

You have to be pretty demented and far gone to be able to do that kind of thing.

I'm scared when these people return and are amongst us in society. But then a lot of veterans do have mental problems after serving in a war.

What kind of training does the military give their people?

Originally posted by Nunny
You need to look beyond your paranoia and hatred for the government and Bush, and look at the big picture. Because I assure you, there is a MUCH bigger plan and game at play here --- by both sides.

And what is that game plan? Is it oil, is it a continuation of the Crusades?

reply to post by Christian Voice


okay, you were CLEARLY judging people who didn't agree with your worldview, about things like 'unborn babies'(something i didn't even know existed! i thought it was a 'fetus') and the rest of the list.

you were in the military? did you forget this?:

THOU SHALT NOT KILL

because, that's supposed to be a pretty hard and fast rule.

from 'the onion'
"Look, I don't know, maybe I haven't made myself completely clear, so for the record, here it is again," said the Lord, His divine face betraying visible emotion during a press conference near the site of the fallen Twin Towers. "Somehow, people keep coming up with the idea that I want them to kill their neighbor. Well, I don't. And to be honest, I'm really getting sick and tired of it. Get it straight. Not only do I not want anybody to kill anyone, but I specifically commanded you not to, in really simple terms that anybody ought to be able to understand."

christians who bomb abortion clinics are confused. christians who kill are confused. christians who seek revenge are confused. christians are supposed to"

do unto others as they would have done unto them
turn the other check
forgive
and be HAPPY TO DIE, 'cause HEAVEN(!!!!AHHHHHHHHHH!!!) is waiting for them.

i don't believe in jesus, anymore, but i DO believe in 'his' parables as the best way to run a harmonious society.

so, even though i'm an unbeliever, i still am 'more christian' than you IN DEED and attitude. i will NEVER pick up a gun and pull the trigger. ever.

humble thyself before the lord, and have no fear, brother, for the lord loves everyone, even suicide bombers(remember, He died for our sins so we wouldn't be held accountable, anymore. no more sacrificial lamb, dude. no more hell for sinners.

thank you, jesus.

[edit on 1-3-2008 by billybob]

Oh thank you Jesus. for your compassion your grace and your Mercy.

Or are you the Jesus of vengeance and wrath. Turn the other cheek is just so much BS. They are a darker brown and must be subjugated to the white mans will. Praise Jesus and his everlasting glory.

[ASIDE] That was an interesting way to post your feelings Whaaa, not bad, just different. I had to read it twice before I realized that I had read it correctly the first time.



I stand by my views on the matter with the prisons and torture.
These people are not tried, they are not held with any known reasons... and yet they are being tortured.
1: The US is supposed to be a morally bound country, yet it's permitting torture.
2: The actual terrorists would never allow themselves to be captured alive, and if captured anyways, would likely rather kill themselves in their cells than be left at the mercy of their "infidels". Hence, the possibility of these prisoners being actual terrorists is incredibly remote.

... That leads to one thing. These prisoners are simple civilians like you and I, the US Military simply thinks that they might know something useful, and because they don't cooperate with threats (I wouldn't either), they are having the information tortured out of them. (With a little added sexual and fecal humiliation between torture sessions)

When everything is added up, this paints a very scary picture indeed. The fact that the citizens of the US aren't raising hell over this simply tells the current administration that these tactics are likely to work in the US as well... on their own civilians.

Hell of a way to make sure your people don't disagree with you... threaten to torture them indefinitely.

This thread has the words of Dostoyevsky ringing in my ears; “The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.”

At the moment, I'd have to say that things are looking regrettably uncivilized.

Christian voice was right, alot of Christian bashing. Can't you people debate this thread without bashing someones faith? I don't think so.

As simplistic as it sounds, the one question that keeps running through my head after seeing the video is: are we de-sensitized or simply unevolved? Being weak of character would de-sensitize somebody easier. However, being weak of character and unevolved would be a more dangerous combination.

This is all very horrible and sad. All you can really do is hope/pray that justice will be served and that those who do/have done such atrocities towards their fellow man will realize their wrongs. I really wish Johnny and Dave would talk about this on the ATS podcast...as a way of getting more people to see what's going on. (I'm sure a majority of you have heard it) But listen to the song "Vicarious" by Tool from their 10,000 Days album. Sadly, it's such a true statement

Perhaps the author and the originator of this post should pull their head out of their *SNIP*, and show us pictures of Abu Graib BEFORE US forces took it over.

You would see the beheadings, hands and feet being cut off with swords, prisoners cuffed and tossed off the roof, ritual beatings in the courtyard and various other brutal beatings and killings.


The pictures I saw in this post are of nothing worse than your run of the mill college hazing and fraternity / sorority rituals.....

None of the prisoners died from the acts, while many college students have from their rituals.

You all really need to pull your heads from your *SNIP*.

Mod Edit: Lets keep it clean eh?

[edit on 3/1/08 by FredT]

Originally posted by DisabledVet
Perhaps the author and the originator of this post should pull their head out of their ass, and show us pictures of Abu Graib BEFORE US forces took it over.

You would see the beheadings, hands and feet being cut off with swords, prisoners cuffed and tossed off the roof, ritual beatings in the courtyard and various other brutal beatings and killings.


The pictures I saw in this post are of nothing worse than your run of the mill college hazing and fraternity / sorority rituals.....

None of the prisoners died from the acts, while many college students have from their rituals.

You all really need to pull your heads from your asses.

Your a very compassionate person. You seem nice and very caring. That's respectful

Oh wait you don't seem to be any of that.

reply to post by DisabledVet



First, you need to maintain civility. Secondly, we hold ourselves to a certain standard of conduct. My brother is a soldier too, and he wouldn't do this kind of crap. I know you don't think this is too severe, but it's a large blow to the psyche of Iraq, and fuels more hatred for us. That is why things like this are held in contempt, it doesn't help it hurts. If you were over there then you certainly know the veracity of cultural difference, because of that we need to act with more responsibility, restraint, and ETHICS. Without these virtues we are indiscernible from the enemy in the eyes of the Iraqi people, and we're there for them right? At least that's the new excuse. If it is the case then we need to examine our actions and not make dubious comparisons. We're America, and we don't torture because we want to be set apart from barbarism.

The question of whether we torture or not is answered by which road we choose to walk on. Civility or barbarism...Take your pick.

Exactly what kinds of torture do you think we are doing to those criminals? Do you think we are burning them with pokers, removing their limbs, sodomizing them with spiked bats, cutting out their tongues? I haven't seen any such evidence. Some things that went on there got bad out of hand, but nothing physicly debilitating. No, I don't think it's time for cookies and ice cream for them.

I don't want my opinion to come off as harsh as it does. I do think the soldiers there took things way too far. But like it has been said here before, this is not new news, those are not new pics, and this has been dealt with. Constantly bringing it up helps nothing but to breed hatred for the US. This is not a typical representation of the US. Don't judge our whole military by the actions of these people.

reply to post by deesw


Actually, it is the ACTIONS of these soldiers that bring hatred to America. Not our debate.

I believe these soldiers didn't have the proper discipline, regardless I watched that ridiculous clip of pictures that have been going around the internet like no one's business, and was amused to see that one was clearly faked (the one with the camel). The others I've seen before.
I happen to agree with Christian Voice on this one, we are at war and keeping it all P-C is not part of any military strategy. If it upsets you that terrorists are not given the VIP treatment, then look away.

Originally posted by deesw
Christian voice was right, alot of Christian bashing. Can't you people debate this thread without bashing someones faith? I don't think so.

Can we separate a so called "Christian Nation" from the actions of its military. Are Christian nations held to a higher standard than the heathen. Aren't we supposed to ask ourselves; "what would Jesus do" or is that just a bumper sticker to indicate the piety of the driver of the car?

I think these are all valid questions that need to be asked of ourselves as a nation. It serves no purpose to parrot back, "they chop off heads". Are we to be held to a higher standard as the leader of the free world or are we as barbaric and morally bankrupt as our perceived enemy's?

I know that these are not easy questions. We as a nation need to come to terms with what kind of culture we want to portray. Are we base and degraded as the Nazi's became or shall we lead the world by example.
The greatest most moral and compassionate people this planet has so far produced. Or a corrupt, despicable parody of what the founding fathers envisioned.

We still have a chance, although a slim one, to embrace the good and light.

The choice is ours!













1

Originally posted by laiguana
I believe these soldiers didn't have the proper discipline, regardless I watched that ridiculous clip of pictures that have been going around the internet like no one's business, and was amused to see that one was clearly faked (the one with the camel). The others I've seen before.
I happen to agree with Christian Voice on this one, we are at war and keeping it all P-C is not part of any military strategy. If it upsets you that terrorists are not given the VIP treatment, then look away.

I don't want any terrorist being given special treatment...But if you've ever been to an American jail they treat you bad enough in there. We DON'T need to be exemplifying the exact opposite of what we say we stand for. Otherwise they make liars out of all of us. I try my hardest to be an honest person. To say what I mean and mean what I say. I first heard that term when I moved to the US. My brother and I grew up with that, kinda made it an unofficial motto. He an I have both seriously opposed this sort of behavior. The difference between he and I is that he is in the US Army and I am not.

He joined the Army because it was always his dream, even before we moved the the US, to be a soldier in this Army. He sees the Army, and indeed the whole of the Military of the US, as an honorable institution with values and virtues unsurpassed. A just force. And has honestly exemplified this image. To allow this would be to accept a moral standard that we were once against, if you lower your standards, you never really had them in the first place.

Originally posted by laiguana
If it upsets you that terrorists are not given the VIP treatment, then look away.

It upsets us that the majority of 'terrorists' are innocent people being held without trials.

Again, there is half of the country who KNOWS that this is the truth, and there is the other half who are up to their necks in denial "Oh it's just criminals everyone, nothing to see here. They're all guilty. No trials necessary."

Get real. This isn't about military tactics anymore, it's about basic human justice. Torture could be completely out of the picture and you would STILL have a bunch of innocent people held in prison for years on end without a trial and STILL have a bunch of nitwit government-toadies claiming that no trial is necessary.

I am SO glad to be on the sensible half of this country. I am slowly beginning to despise the other half.

[edit on 1-3-2008 by NewWorldOver]