New Abu Ghraib Images (WARNING: very disturbing)

The prisoner abuses don't just make America look bad, they make the whole West look bad. The Muslim world groups us all together, as we do we them.

Anyway, what's happening with the torturers and murderers? Are they being prosecuted?

Originally posted by Christian Voice
What gives you the right to say they are not criminals? I think the bunny hugging has run rampant. I have not read anything from a legitimate news source that proves that prisoners are being tortured that are just innocent individuals that we just want to punish.

Seriously, do you see Christ water-boarding?

reply to post by rizla




Sorry, but the image i just got was of the happy jesus from Dogma standing over someone being waterboarded giving the thumbs up...lol, it was entertaining...sorry.

/ontopic

But yes, this does make the whole west look bad. I mean, imagine for a second the roles are reversed....you are a muslim who supports the war in iraq. Then one day you see all these wonderful pictures or your innocent countrymen being tortured and uttely humiliated....what would you do? What if those were pictured of americans being tortured by iraqi's?

Originally posted by Christian Voice
What gives you the right to say they are not criminals? I think the bunny hugging has run rampant. I have not read anything from a legitimate news source that proves that prisoners are being tortured that are just innocent individuals that we just want to punish.

It is well known that they are being held there without charge, evidence or trial. Do your research.

Here's just a few of the MANY reports witnesses etc.

Kids 8 -11 years old there? How can they be criminals?
www.foxnews.com...

Charges, witness reports too, being held called a terrorist for no reason.
www.timesonline.co.uk...

www.guardian.co.uk...

www.cageprisoners.com...

www.cbc.ca...

rwor.org...



[edit on 29-2-2008 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by Christian Voice
What gives you the right to say they are not criminals? I think the bunny hugging has run rampant. I have not read anything from a legitimate news source that proves that prisoners are being tortured that are just innocent individuals that we just want to punish.

It is well known that they are all held there without charge, evidence or trial. Do your research.

[edit on 29-2-2008 by _Phoenix_]

They may be held there without trial, but I think it may be a bit of a stretch to say they're held without evidence, if you're trying to imply the entire population of detainees. Sure there are some that are suspected to have done things, but there are also those that have been caught in the act of doing things.

reply to post by Silenceisall


I can't believe there is even a debate taking place...I thought we didn't torture period...This is ludicrous.

reply to post by WorldShadow


I realize you must be a young person who is easily influenced by others and have yet to gain any worldly experience.. Don't be so easily influenced and think for yourself....Do you really believe that our troops who are fighitng for our country and many others are going to come home and spread dissention and commit crimes on fellow citizens? Does a butcher go home from a hard days work and slaughter his family??? one thing you bleeding heart, terrorist sympathizers must understand is that we are at ....get this....one sec...we are at WAR.....we might not all agree with the circumstances involved that waged it...or some may..but we are at war nonetheless and our fellow countrymen need our support not our animosity..you must not have any friends who are in Iraq....would you shun a friend as readily as you do all the others? You should get a beating just to open your eyes....We are in a country who is in a region of the world that has done nothing but kill each other..and brutally so...ever since they existed... grow up ...life is tough..and War is War...and read between the lines sometime at what the media is not showing you...that being the many thousands of Iraqi's who are happy we are there..The media is the main problem they only show us what they want us to see...which is what they did in Vietnam....look up other countries news blogs..you might get a hint then.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by BlueRaja


This is quite a comical observation. Would you care to share your statistics on education level and literacy rates in Iraq?

I don't know about statistics but I do know from a couple of Iraqi friends that a lot of Iraq was actually quite wealthy before the war, and they had good education too.

Ba'ath Party members were well off, but the average Iraqi was not living a carefree and affluent life.

www.pbs.org...

"Education: Literacy rate, 58%; school enrollment, 49%"

Those that live in and around Baghdad(or other metropolitan areas generally could read, though not necessarily at a collegiate level).

Avg yearly wages were $2500-2700.

I meant wealthy as in they could afford everything that they NEED, like food etc. Most could without much problem, obviously there were some more poor like everywhere else.
But now it's become harder because of the war. They have become poorer.



[edit on 29-2-2008 by _Phoenix_]

And what are the education rates and earnings now that the civilians are living in fear? Now that we've waged war against a country who never declared it themselves?

After following this post and seeing the response from the so called Christians; now I understand the the bumper sticker "God save us from your followers"

This is not a blanket indictment of all Christians, just the blood thirsty, selfrightious arrogant ones. You know who you are. And so does the Christ.

It's a brave new world, welcome to the monkey house.

I had hoped that America would hold itself to a higher moral standard. I guess I was very naive. Maybe soon we can return to "one nation under God" but there seemes to me to be evil masquerading as righteousness.

[edit on 29-2-2008 by whaaa]

reply to post by SilentBob86


if you think that what is going on in that prison is torture then you should find out what torture really is....look up what the japanese did to captured americans in WWII, or what the veit cong did to pow's....or any other country has done in the name of war..those people have it easy.......our own prison system treats inmates worse...

reply to post by johnsky


The question though is who are they in fear of? Us or insurgents? Are you taking the responsibility of blame away from those that are creating the havoc, merely because you feel that we shouldn't have been there in the first place?

Originally posted by Stumpy1
reply to post by SilentBob86

 

if you think that what is going on in that prison is torture then you should find out what torture really is....look up what the japanese did to captured americans in WWII, or what the veit cong did to pow's....or any other country has done in the name of war..those people have it easy.......our own prison system treats inmates worse...

Torture is torture, who cares who tortures the worse?

I keep seeing posts saying " well these guys did this and that!, so what our guards did is not as bad! "

That's like saying "Kicking a kitten in the head a few times ain't that bad, I mean look at those guys who put them in a microwave, and rip their skin off."

It doesn't matter who is the baddest, it's still bad. I mean come on? Whats the point your trying to make?

Well whaaa and johnsky, why are you two only lashing out at the people on this thread that claim Christianity? There are people on this thread that don't have a problem with what is going on in the prison and they have not claimed Christianity. Why aren't you lashing out at them? I think it is obvious that this is a very anti-Christian website.

reply to post by whaaa


when dealing with religion there is always evil.......Religions are responsible for more death through out history than all of our so called political "wars" combined.......what is going on today is life...it's normal...it's expected, us being animals and all, or maybe you forgot about the 300,000 + iraqi's that saddam himself gassed.....one evil to another,,we bleed for peace..everyone does..but peace will only exist when there is no blood left..so get used to it

Could someone please answer the question I posed earlier- what positive result do we hope to achieve by fixating on this event, and looking for new pictures from the same event that's already been documented and condemned? It seems like all that is happening is keeping liberals and the Arab world upset at the USA.

reply to post by _Phoenix_

Well for one I am happy that my security is not in the hands of people like you....if it was then i would be speaking german right now...oh and good thing is you folks will never win.....you are the kind of person who would watch someone "torture" his family and then say "oh well..." and do nothing about it...be happy that america still tolerates your type

Does American have a defence dept.?
Does America have an offence dept.?
Our government has killed over One Million men, women, and children as if the end justify the means. Would our wonderful government blow up your city if they thought Osama was there? Damn right!
Remember New Orleans where the Mayor's own mother died because for 5 days no one was allowed to go in to rescue. Just watch in 10 years, if we don't destroy the planet, there will be new industry where people once lived. No comp for their loss. Just a prison camp to live at behind barbed wire like they are now.

reply to post by whaaa



I agree. I'm a Christian myself, and Christ doesn't torture. Nor would he condone such actions. The man lived and died fighting for such causes. To call ourselves Christians and condone torture, illegal wars, fraud, destruction of the environment, ignoring the poor and the sick...This is no land of god. When are my fellow Christians going to realize that the road to heaven is not paved in intolerance? When are my fellow Christians going to realize that the word of God and Christ are what matters, not what Jerry Falwell or any church says? Remember that Christ achieved what he did because he challenged the establishment for it's corruption. We must do the same now, As followers of his teaching, we cannot allow this sort of thing to take over our faith. We would be no better than any murderer if we did so.