Lakota Indians Withdraw Treaties Signed With U.S.

Originally posted by ChrisF231
So basically your saying that a series of Kosovos in place of what was the US is a good thing? Do you have any idea of what that will do to the economy (stable nation = stable economy)? Or even what will happen in terms of quality of life?

Of course not, I mean as long as the evil Nazi federal government isent around then everything is great right? Talk about flawed logic

Some of you need to quit smoking whatever it is your putting in that pipe because if you keep pushing this agenda then we will end up in a situation that will make Bosnia and Kosovo look likes child's play.

I'm not advocating that at all! I hope to god that it never happens. All it would take to change things is a series of reforms. Take the lobbiests out of Washington, and the money of big business, and then our government would work for the people again.

The Lakota are doing this as a way of drawing attention to their plight. Across the country we are all in this together, and we can change things for the better. Not by secession, but by reforms.

I grew up in Maine and saw how the indians there from the island were treated. Indian Island is a small island in the middle of a river this is where the government put them. They were to stay there and not to leave. I have seen some babies sick and dying there that could not be treated at a regular hospital due to the fact they were indians. I think its time for all indians to fight back. The blacks have had more rights over the years then the indians do now. What is up with that? The indians were here first. give them back what is theres. I love this and I hope that all indian nations do the same thing. and kick some booty.

Hilda

Originally posted by lakotawillfail

here is the point the US is like a parent to the lakota. the lakota is the child and the parents take care of the child and keep it safe but when the child gets out of hand they punish it. just the same case except on a different scale. and the child doesnt get to grow up and become independent. but the US feeds them it is the US keeping them alive.

If only your brilliant analogy were as simple as that. Just think -- The US could be charged with child abuse and neglect, then the Lakota children could be free of their abusive parents.

The Lakota are a repressed culture and they have been subjected to a prescribed lifestyle that is not the lifestyle of the Lakota people. They have been forced into living within reservation boundaries, forced to submit to the world of "white man", and forced to give up their culture. None of this aligns with the Lakota culture. Is it any wonder that the previously submitted statistics are as dismal as they are? We who call ourselves "Americans" should be ashamed of these statistics.

When this country was "discovered" and then later "founded", white man determined that this country was for-the-taking. Nevermind that the country was already occupied. Nevermind that the occupants had their own civilization. But make no mistake about how our "civilization" began -- white man has spent MILLIONS trying to get everyone to believe that "civilization" began after this country was "founded". On their terms. And white man's "civilization" would dictate the future. After all, they had royalty interests and deeds and such. Oh, and law, being what-it-is, ruled this land. White man's law. Unbeknownst to those Indians.

So the Indians were provoked into battle for trying to defend their claims to their own sustainable lifestyle and their land. Yet the Indians were considered by white man to be savage beasts.

Most of the US public schools provide a very limited and white man biased smear of the truth of our country's events. It disgusts me to see and know how the real truth has been suppressed for more than a century. Wasn't it so smart to create the myth of "civilization" so that it could be perpetuated further, thus establishing the white man ideologies and belief system for all. And look at white man and how "civilization" has created the mess we call "civilization" now.

All one needs to do now is to examine which culture and/or society is the better one. Is the white man's society (aka "civilized" society) better for the world, in general, or is an Indian society better? To answer this, one needs to examine their own personal belief system and their own values. Many people believe that white man has thrust our "civilization" into hell. Our current society with the continued indoctrination of the Government and the need-greed mindset has had an enormous negative impact and has been on a destructive path for more than a century. Yet with all of our financial ruins of late, our continued need for the war machine, our ignorance with pollution, and our big corporate takeover of America selling out to third world cheap labor markets, there are people who actually think that the Lakota would be worse off without the government.

Ya gotta love it when someone thinks that way.....

reply to post by Zoltan


I think as much as anything it is fear. If you read lakotwillfail's postings, you find threads of fear woven into the tapestry of the words. Fear that a change, even if it benefits many, will not benefit him personally, and may cause him some hardship.

This is what modern America teaches to the young; look out for self first. Never put anyone else's needs above your own. Never mind what is morally right, do that which is expedient.

I do understand, and sympathize with this person. But at the same time, I feel that until we can view the problems and desires of others from their viewpoint, we will never progress as a species.

And the implication that the Lakota are children, being taken care of by the "Great White Father" is straight out of the 1800s mindset. It is essentially no different than the idea that blacks needed the plantation lifestyle just as much as their white masters.

It is the refuge of minds unable to see people, and are stuck on some image that was instilled in their formative years.

You might even start getting a decent profit from your crops.

lol wheat is up to $9-$10 a bushel it dont get much higher than that if anything it would be lower cuz they cant afford that. u mite not know this but pine ridge is one of the poorest places in the US i think its like 2nd or 3rd poorest and they cant afford that. also they would never let a white guy be a part of their nation because they shoot each other up there. they arent civilized or organized enough to pull of their own nation. now if it was a place like Lower Brule Rez then they might be able to but the thing is they are too smart to try to become a nation cuz they get alot of benifits from the US. so dont say they get ripped off cuz ur wrong. just this summer they got a new 3 lane paved blacktop (paid by the US government)

Originally posted by lakotawillfail

You might even start getting a decent profit from your crops.

lol wheat is up to $9-$10 a bushel it dont get much higher than that if anything it would be lower cuz they cant afford that. u mite not know this but pine ridge is one of the poorest places in the US i think its like 2nd or 3rd poorest and they cant afford that. also they would never let a white guy be a part of their nation because they shoot each other up there. they arent civilized or organized enough to pull of their own nation. now if it was a place like Lower Brule Rez then they might be able to but the thing is they are too smart to try to become a nation cuz they get alot of benifits from the US. so dont say they get ripped off cuz ur wrong. just this summer they got a new 3 lane paved blacktop (paid by the US government)

And how much of your wheat profit is being subsidized by the government? How much are you making from putting unproductive land into "conservation" year after year? How good are your tax write offs on machinery? In other words, like most farmers, I'll bet that without the Feds propping you up, you would go under within three years.

And why do you suppose the rez is so poor? Just a bunch of drunk Indians? Or could it be because there are no jobs, no futures? Can you not see that this is a plan by the Federal government to force young Natives to give up their ties to home, to family, to the past, and to move out into this thing we call America? It is just as creative as the boarding school ploy where they were not allowed to speak their own language.

And as an aside, I take it, since you are no longer saying I must be some city "pu**y" that never has lived in Mission, that you have had time to reflect on the more personal things that only someone that had lived there would know. Do you need further proof?

Just as I spoke the truth about that, I'm speaking truth now. Change may come, or it may not. But it is not in anyones interest for things to go on the same as they have for a century there. You can be a part of that change, or you can stand in it's way. You can help find solutions, or be a part of the problem. Which will you be the most proud to tell your grandchildren that you did?

ok if u truly believe them becoming their own nation is good then let me ask you this:
how will it benefit them in anyway?

Originally posted by lakotawillfail
ok if u truly believe them becoming their own nation is good then let me ask you this:
how will it benefit them in anyway?

This is from one of my prior posts...

Ok we all know their life style sucks even with any subsistance that they may or may not get from the Government.

The real question here is what do they gain by their withdraw? If as I think Cavscout as stated in past posts that they would gain access to natural resources on their lands that they do not have control over now then that could easily be a good reason to withdraw.

If these resources would elevate them finally out of the horrendous lifestyle they are stuck in now and give them the freedom to live the way they would like to live and not some shadow existence of the white man then is there anyone who has posted to this topic see this as a bad thing?

I'm coming up on brick walls!

it might be that ~somebody~ is blocking access to links....


for instance...i go to: www.lakotafreedom.com...
and the three pertinent links(at page bottom) about the 'declaration' don't work

then i go to: afterarmageddon7.blogspot.com...
and attempt to read the article "Descendants of sitting-bull crazy-horse
break away from U.S. - Putin threatens support"..."
but i get stonewalled again



maybe the govt is denying access in some manner, because the movement is gathering momentum and (allegedly) has the ear & possible support from dozens of nations and indigenous peoples worldwide
~connected via the www. net~

[edit on 26-12-2007 by St Udio]

reply to post by St Udio


I'm not surprised. That is standard tactics when the government wants something kept from the media and most of the world.

At the Second Battle of Wounded Knee, there was a blockade, with nothing in or out. And even though there were women and children that were not even part of the activity, the US took a course to starve the settlement into submission. (I won't name names, but the blockade was run often with food in pickup trucks.)

Originally posted by NGC2736
. And even though there were women and children that were not even part of the activity, the US took a course to starve the settlement into submission. (I won't name names, but the blockade was run often with food in pickup trucks.)

a couple of years before the Wounded Knee... police action

many of us 'street people' aka 'the great unwashed' 'hippies'
knew and formed friendship with a human-being known to the
Washington DC comunity as 'Indian Frank'... he held office
in the 'Bureau of Indian Affairs' as he was selected by his home community to carry their 'voice' to the federal government.

I do not know for certain... but it warms my heart to think
the exceptional human-being, self introduced to the world as 'Indian Frank'
was committed enough and freed enough from his work duties to have been involved with those at Wounded Knee
~freedom fighters who tried to circumvent the federal seige~

happy new year, all



[edit on 26-12-2007 by St Udio]

Originally posted by lakotawillfail

You might even start getting a decent profit from your crops.

lol wheat is up to $9-$10 a bushel it dont get much higher than that if anything it would be lower cuz they cant afford that. u mite not know this but pine ridge is one of the poorest places in the US i think its like 2nd or 3rd poorest and they cant afford that. also they would never let a white guy be a part of their nation because they shoot each other up there. they arent civilized or organized enough to pull of their own nation. now if it was a place like Lower Brule Rez then they might be able to but the thing is they are too smart to try to become a nation cuz they get alot of benifits from the US. so dont say they get ripped off cuz ur wrong. just this summer they got a new 3 lane paved blacktop (paid by the US government)

It would be interesting to learn how and where you have reached your generalized conclusions about the Lakota. Your statement "they arent civilized or organized enough to pull of their own nation " needs some serious explanation.

The remainder of what you wrote was just too ignorant to even address.....

Hey if all of the NON Indegenous Americans (if there is such a thing anymore) get kicked out of the future re-allocated lands of the Indians they should just run across the border into mexico. I think that is kind of poetic. I was born in East-Oaxaca officer!

whats interesting is the fact i've seen nothing about it on the news.

for 1 the lakota have no resources on their land that they arent allowed to get. it is all open to them.

2) i am not saying they are savage but u dont know them like me u dont live in the area. they are the second poorest county in the US (i researched that and it shows from going there), also they kill each other alot the murder rate is very high. with poverty and lots of murder there is no way they are organized and civilized. there is ur explanation.

3) the government probably dont care about this at all because they know they cant pull it off and be successful.

4) no one answered my question: How will this help the indians in any way?

5) another question: What lifestyle do they wanna live that they already cant?

6) they choose to live in houses and not tepees because houses are better.

7) why would u want to preserve ur culture? u would never advance! us whites dont still ride horses or wear suits of armor. we didnt save our culture .

also the government didnt block it because if u look at the site its supposed to link to the site is within lakotafreedom.com it is just mistyped on their behalf.

Originally posted by NGC2736
reply to post by Zoltan

This is what modern America teaches to the young; look out for self first. Never put anyone else's needs above your own. Never mind what is morally right, do that which is expedient.

I do understand, and sympathize with this person. But at the same time, I feel that until we can view the problems and desires of others from their viewpoint, we will never progress as a species.

NGC,

Your words are eloquent, you are describing to me the generation of young in America today to a T. The first paragraph describes my children perfectly, but they were not raised that way. I guess the system has raised them without my permission.

Means is wrong because he speaks for himself and the minority, but not for all Lakota. I am with him in spirit though.

Guz

spelling

[edit on 26-12-2007 by Guzzeppi]

wow i cant believe u listen to that guy! the indians have as much freedom as you and me they do not lose any freedom at all!! they can live as normal or as cultural as they want to. the US doesnt stop them from living their way of life. havent u heard of pow wows?? they still have them!! the government doesnt come in and say no pow wows!!

Now I'm "that guy", eh? You do have a way of trying to make certain people seem like a missing link on the human evolutionary tree.

You have your idea of truth, and your own idea of right, and you are unwilling to hear anything else. Like so many, you want to decide what an Indian should be happy with, and just how free he is.

The trouble is, you sound like an unhappy man that is doing his best to convince himself that he is free. And let's face it, you wouldn't be here, on a CT site to have found this thread if you were that "happy with the government" person you want the Lakota to be.