Lakota Indians Withdraw Treaties Signed With U.S.

Wow, this one really has the rednecks running scared! Keep up the good work Lakota Nation. Even it it fails it's well worth the effort and you never know, you may start a new precedent

It has to be one of the most ignorant statements to say something like, "Well, someone was here before them, so they aren't really natives."

The point being, you don't go attack and kill a man in a house he just moved into, that someone else used to live in, and give the excuse that, "Well, he wasn't the first person to occupy that house, so it's not his. The house is a house and it is okay for anyone to occupy it, as long as they have the power to drive the previous occupant out!"

I really don't understand that line of thinking. People that think like that, must also, by basis of their logic, think that is is entirely okay for another nation/people to take over the USA and it's land. It would also be okay for someone to raid your apartment and take it over! After all, "Duh, we are the immigrants, hmm, and someone owned this land before us!" I'd be willing to bet that someone occupied YOUR HOUSE before you did, so... an of course, you can't bring legality into the picture here, for obvious reasons.

So what is it? Whoever has the power can take whatever land they want? Is this the mentality of some people here?

Originally posted by Shar_Chi
Wow, this one really has the rednecks running scared! Keep up the good work Lakota Nation. Even it it fails it's well worth the effort and you never know, you may start a new precedent

LOL, hey, you might want to be careful using the term redneck! It seems that you get warned if you do!

I'm prepared to take one for the team

Originally posted by ChrisF231
Exactly, the "Native Americans" are not natives at all being that they came across the land bridge from Asia during the last Ice Age. The people on this board wont admit that though because then they wouldent be able to take a swipe at the US government.

If we were the real fascist country this board makes us out to be, 90% of you (that are Americans) would be sitting in prison awaiting trial for treason by now.

Maybe I'm being obtuse, but could someone please explain to me how this statement remotely justifies attempted genocide?

Or the breaking of legal obligations entered into by a party of good faith?

Or even simply the shoddy treatment of citizens?

Some folks really need to understand that patriotism has nothing to do with blindly towing the line. It's about doing whatever it takes to make sure the ideals and welfare of the people come first. Even (and especially) those who are less fortunate. Even if that makes the Administration your enemy.

I hope the Lakota can pull this off and live as they were meant to. It has been a long time coming. look foreward tohearing how it all progresses.

reply to post by Xtrozero


Since the government stepped in and took thier lands remember the trail of Tears. Why they live in such a poor state now- was because of the interference- Indians became sick then died. After a 150 years of government control I believe they lost their ability and knowlege of how they lived before. This is why the government should have left them alone.

55.7 millions acres is Indian Land. The government had treaties not deeds to that land. So the US has no claim at all to that land. (I'm still trying to make sense of all this. )

Originally posted by TheoOne
What about those who were occupying North America before indians, hmm?

You ever wonder how the Indians started occupying North America? I'm pretty sure Indians are immigrants, too, right?

Genetic studies indicate that they were the first people to set foot on the Americas (North, Central and South) in a single wave of migration. There was nobody else before them.

Gene study supports single main migration across Bering Strait

The researchers examined genetic variation at 678 key locations or markers in the DNA of present-day members of 29 Native American populations across North, Central and South America. They also analyzed data from two Siberian groups. The analysis shows:

o genetic diversity, as well as genetic similarity to the Siberian groups, decreases the farther a native population is from the Bering Strait – adding to existing archaeological and genetic evidence that the ancestors of native North and South Americans came by the northwest route.

o a unique genetic variant is widespread in Native Americans across both American continents – suggesting that the first humans in the Americas came in a single migration or multiple waves from a single source, not in waves of migrations from different sources. The variant, which is not part of a gene and has no biological function, has not been found in genetic studies of people elsewhere in the world except eastern Siberia.

Link to actual paper: PLoS Genetics - Genetic Variation and Population Structure in Native Americans

Further reading: Peopling the New World | A Mitochondrial View

Originally posted by Leyla
Since the government stepped in and took thier lands remember the trail of Tears. Why they live in such a poor state now- was because of the interference- Indians became sick then died. After a 150 years of government control I believe they lost their ability and knowlege of how they lived before. This is why the government should have left them alone.

55.7 millions acres is Indian Land. The government had treaties not deeds to that land. So the US has no claim at all to that land. (I'm still trying to make sense of all this.

)

If breaking the treaties would give them greater access to the land that is already theirs, and then allowed them to truly become independent of the federal government by creating their own source of revenue I am all for it.

This could also allow them to live the way they want to live and not in some shadow existence of the white man. I am all for a person to gain the enlightenment that they wish to gain, and if true independence from the US provided it then I would be very happy for them.


[edit on 22-12-2007 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by Beachcoma


Genetic studies indicate that they were the first people to set foot on the Americas (North, Central and South) in a single wave of migration. There was nobody else before them.

well, they might be wrong???

timesofindia.indiatimes.com...

reply to post by dawnstar


Interesting article, but it doesn't dispute the study. In fact it probably reinforces it and shows that the Native (South) Americans were much more advanced than people gave them credit for.

From your link:

It showed that a full-fledged urban civilisation existed at the place around 2700 BC. The archaeologist and her team found a huge compound at Caral: 65 hectares in the central zone, encompassing six large pyramids, many smaller pyramids, two circular plazas, temples, amphitheatres and other architectural features including residential districts spread in the desert, 23 km from the coast.

That's 4700 years ago. The study I linked shows that they came in a single migration through the Bering Land Bridge 12,000 years ago.

So what exactly was your point again?

As I said in another post you can basically redraw the whole world if you went with whoever was here first owns it mentality. You might even say that there is some guy in Africa that owns the whole world.

If we look at the population in America prior to 1492 at a rough estimate there was 10 million Indians and within 200 years that number was greatly reduced mainly from diseases from Europe to a half a million. Indians were also war like in their own way and routinely fought with each other and all the spoils went to the victor, they were not very nice in their treatment of each other either.

As all this starts to unfold we need a starting point to determine in our modern times of who owns what, because to say the Indians own America we would need to ask which Indians own what part and what part of their land is actually some other tribe that they warred with long in the past, or what land was owned by the 9.5 million that died over 200 years, and who owns that land now?

Then we also need to look at the great tribe of the white man that in Indian fashion warred with them and won and took their winning spoils.
There is not a country on this planet whose boundaries were not created by war with the victor establishing those boundaries. This might seem distasteful to many here but that is just the way it was.

Today though in our modern times the only thing we can go on is the land and treaties that were provided to the Indians in the mid 1800s for anything prior to that means nothing since those treaties revised or started the agreements we have today.


[edit on 22-12-2007 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by Ironclad


Left to their own devices, the natives have the highest alchoholic addiction rates which contributes to the highest suicide and infant mortality. Alchohol is in the Western Hemisphere now, you can't change that. Hordes and countries, etc have invaded regions around the globe throughout history, changing cultures over and over again. It happens. To bad, so sad. That's just life on Earth. Get over it.

Originally posted by Beachcoma
That's 4700 years ago. The study I linked shows that they came in a single migration through the Bering Land Bridge 12,000 years ago.

So what exactly was your point again?

I agree for the Americas are water lock and until the last iceage 12,000 years ago there wasn't a way across.

Some have spoken of how the Lakota would fail because if they are not now managing to save their reservation, with government help, how could they possibly do it on their own?

Just stop and think about that?

The BIA controls 90% of the land "For the tribe", but it is a federal gravy train for those who lease the land. If you want to extract some mineral or strip mine or run a major agribisiness on Indian land, you go through them.

And since the earliest treaties, these corrupt profiteers in the BIA and Indian Agencies have been taking kickbacks so that the rich get to exploit the poor. Unless you're an apple, it's hard to get ahead even in a small way on the rez. (For those that don't know what an "apple" is, it's someone who has become white in everything except skin color--one who has "sold out" to the greed concept--an apple is red on the outside but white on the inside.)

The tribal "Government" is most often a puppet government, installed by the BIA-much as it happens in countries around the world when the US comes in and topples them. Rich companies rape the land, the federal government runs the rez through manipulation, and Indians are caught in the middle.

"Well why don't they leave?" For the same reason you don't leave the US. It is home. It's where parents that need care are at. It's where cemeteries are filled with important names and dates. Where there are those that understand the lifeways of others. It is home.

I have said before, this may not be the time, this may not be the right people, this may not be the way. But the yearning to be free will not stop. If this is just a minor symptom or a major outbreak of the "freedom disease", I cannot know. But I am sure that about the underlying problem, which is the US government.

[edit on 22-12-2007 by NGC2736]

Originally posted by dawnstar

Originally posted by Beachcoma


Genetic studies indicate that they were the first people to set foot on the Americas (North, Central and South) in a single wave of migration. There was nobody else before them.

well, they might be wrong???

timesofindia.indiatimes.com...

That's a good one Dawn, we are all related.
Go look at some pictures of the dress of Siberian shaman or Tibetan

www.lifeevents.org...

z.about.com...

www.face-music.ch...

www.stalvik.com...

And don't forget the Vikings


[edit on 053131p://bSaturday2007 by Stormdancer777]

This is great news for the Lakota nation. If successful they will set a precedent for all indigenous people on this planet.

I am wondering if other American Indian nations will follow suite ??



res

My Personal Opinion

Reply to: humannunaki

Common man everybody has there own vices, The cities have high incidences of illicit drug use of all races and alcoholism isn't only high in the Native population either bud.

Yes hordes of other cultures have invaded other cultures etc etc but North America wasn't really invaded, yes there was conflicts but most of the lands were traded in treaties for lands which were broken.

I also read about someone posting about Natives warring all the tine lol common now the Natives had skirmishes and not wars of the grand scale people of other cultures perfected it to.

Now I don't have a problem with any culture being here just trying to promote the facts, I'm not infallible and I could be wrong so don't get mad at me If some of my information is slightly askew.

I just think people should try and get along instead of nasty comments and yes I'm a hippocrite in that respect and could work on that issue myself.

anyway hope everybody has a great day.

Originally posted by arcnaver

 

You are wrong on the financial aid deal. They Want it, they believe they have a blood right to it.

They lost the War! Do you think other countries would just hand over the land to natives in this manor? Heck no! Why should the US. The US won the War and should reap the rewards. Stop being Defeatist Liberals.

They withdraw from the treaty, good bye support and good bye land. Reservations are a sham anyways. The Natives wont, dont and refuse to integrate or upgrade themselves. Sulking over how the White Man is oppressing them. Sounds very familiar to me actually.

They do have a blood right to it. Women and children were massacred so that the U.S. military could overtake North America, no efforts of peacemaking were kept on Americas part.

They didn't 'lose' any war, in fact, white people were being offed by the thousands because Indians had the advantage. If these treaties weren't signed, white people would have been too terrified to settle the Americas. They needed an upper hand first.

Natives don't sulk about anything. They genuinely don't know any life different than the one they've been born to, which is a sad and frustrating life. You don't know this because you're indoctrinated to think like a racist by the very country that you believe 'won' the war against indians.

IF you take away a persons means to survival, then yes, you are morally obligated to provide the necessities for them.
and this is what was done to many of the tribes...they were uprooted from the land that we thought would be good for our use and settled on land that we thought was useless (who would guess that this useless land would be so enriched with natural resources like uranium??)

if we had taken the time then to make sure that they were able to live off that useless land then, then maybe we wouldn't have been obligated to still be taking care of them now. But then, we would have had to accept that the way of life that they chose didn't jive with ours, better to force them into the cities to build our skyscrapers for a small salary, ect...