Lakota Indians Withdraw Treaties Signed With U.S.

So basically your saying that a series of Kosovos in place of what was the US is a good thing? Do you have any idea of what that will do to the economy (stable nation = stable economy)? Or even what will happen in terms of quality of life?

Of course not, I mean as long as the evil Nazi federal government isent around then everything is great right? Talk about flawed logic Some of you need to quit smoking whatever it is your putting in that pipe because if you keep pushing this agenda then we will end up in a situation that will make Bosnia and Kosovo look likes child's play.

Ok we all know their life style sucks even with any subsistance that they may or may not get from the Government.

The real question here is what do they gain by their withdraw? If as I think Cavscout as stated in past posts that they would gain access to natural resources on their lands that they do not have control over now then that could easily be a good reason to withdraw.

If these resources would elevate them finally out of the horrendous lifestyle they are stuck in now and give them the freedom to live the way they would like to live and not some shadow existence of the white man then is there anyone who has posted to this topic see this as a bad thing?

reply to post by Xtrozero


I sincerely doubt that the Lakota Nation will withdraw from the Union, no matter my personal feeling on the subject. The desire to be free of many enforced ways is painful to a lot of people, but the complete separation is politically unlikely.

However, because it is legally possible, the threat of it actually taking place is a good leverage tool to pry some of the greedy corporations off the land, and to return greater autonomy to the real citizens.

The Federals tie up court ordered compliance on treaty obligations for years. The meddling in local affairs by far off Washington is constant. State government is just as busy trying first one way and then another, to rule the Nation. And worst of all, the BIA is every bit as heavy handed and corporate sponsored as the CIS or the ATF.

If the Federal Government just lived up to the treaties they signed, without trying to "manage" the Indians, if they were not there to be a cover for the greedy bloodsucking corporations, then the whole Lakota Nation would be rolling in prosperity.

Maybe the threat of separation and political ties to China would be enough to rid the Rez of the outside influence it is now suffering under.

Perhaps that is the whole point of this being put forward without the endorsement of those needed to really make it more than a strong gesture.

just a curious thought. The lokato lands are set in what is now several states. Did the indians gain any state rights when those states joined the nation? If so, then thoeretically, wouldn't the lakota nation have been assimilated as territories prior to statehood, and thus, a referendum would have need to be put through to accept statehood. Did they vote on the referendum? did they have the option?

Just some stuff I was thinking about. I think it would be awesome if they gained there independence, after all that is the true spirit of America. Some special words come to mind.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness"

This being said, although they were a nation previously, so much time has passed that Americans now reside in lokota nation land. I think there should be a referendum held in the states that the lakota nation resides in. Are those states willing to give up reservation lands, for a seperate nation. Additionally, do those that are withdrawing from the treaty actually represent the lakota tribe?

Tribal Government
Council Representative Office/605-964-6685

Tribal Administration
Tribal Chairman: 605-964-4155

Edit to add email address++++++++++++++++

[email protected]

Edit ended +++++++++++++++++++++

I personally, couldn't find any of there names as members of the commitee, or administration of the tribe. Additionally, if they spoke for the tribe, I would think that the tribe would have some info on there website, at the least about it.

Has the Lokato tribes, as a group ratified these documents? After all, if they haven't then its just a couple of people "CLAIMING" to speak for the people, when the people haven't elected, or selected them to speak for them.

How about someone calling the administration and asking about it and posting the results here.


cheers,

Camain

[edit on 24-12-2007 by camain]

the lakota will never succeed and here is why

if they do get their own nation they will have no military, they will be locked from all trade, they will not govern themselves good.

what will they do with US money?? it will be voided there because they arent the US and the US is gonna want that money back.

if this nation is made it will not last long because there will be no money given to them by the US anymore and no more food. for those of u not from this area the government gives the tribe commods which is free food.

they will have no way to feed themselves.

eventually they will give up and want back in the US but when they get back in the US probably wont make a treaty they will probably say that they can only be back in if the land is transferred to the US. then they will have lost their land completely and be further behind of where they were.


THIS WILL NOT WORK!


its a nice try but not thought through. also what if the US declares war what will they do?? they will completely lose their land! russel is a dumbass and so is any other supporter of this.

reply to post by lakotawillfail


You signed up on Christmas Eve, and took such a screen name, just to spout your opinion in such a way? Damn, this must really be important to you. So which mega-corporation that's despoiling the land do you work for? Don't worry, if by some chance this happens, they'll deport you so fast you'll be in Omaha before you find your seat on the bus, with a good tale to tell in the bars about escaping the heathen Indians.

well for one i was interested in this topic so i thought i would check it out. for two your on during christmas eve also. for 3 i dont work for a corporation ruining the land. for 4 this is south dakota on the rez there are no big corporations out here on the rez. im sorry but ur probably just some pussy hippie from the city who dont know #. like i said there are NO CORPORATIONS out here!!! its pretty much bare land. its either farmed or grazed by cows. so dont start this corporate # and thats a problem for them because they will have no corporations or financial systems.

here is the point the US is like a parent to the lakota. the lakota is the child and the parents take care of the child and keep it safe but when the child gets out of hand they punish it. just the same case except on a different scale. and the child doesnt get to grow up and become independent. but the US feeds them it is the US keeping them alive.

Isn't '08 an election year for the USA?

If so, why on Earth would a government, from any nation - let alone America - try to settle this by force?

(Not that anyone yet has talked about the use of force, I'm just assuming based upon recent American history).

The way to solve this dilemma is the old fashioned way: Organise a meeting between the President, at the White House, and various Elders, Chiefs, Representatives from the Lakota Nation.

Make it public. Live TV, open access to media.

Let both sides 'vent ' their point-of-view.

Then, say, after the week-long meeting, you end up with a happy stalemate:

A. Bush appearing like he's heard the concerns of the Lakota Indians

and more importantly

B: The Lakota Indians feel they have been given a fair chance, on all maor media channels, to talk about their grieviences/disputes to wider mainstream audience, instead of though often cynical channels like, say, (ahem) ATS.

Look, to solve this requires understanding.

Understanding from both sides. It's not a "We wont the battle 200 years ago then we're right" argument. That's simplistic.

It's also racist.

I've posted before on this issue. I'm from New Zealand. We have a hell of a problem with 'Treaty' negotiations.

And you know what, we (myself included, a European/Pakeha urban male) make an effort to listen. And 'we' have been let off lightly.

Very, very lightly. In terms of land settlements, only 4% of what could have been taken has been turned over to Maori.

New Zealand has come off lightly in terms of paying back money too to Maori tribes ($NZ2 Billion instead of a more more inflation-adjusted $NZ50 Billion).

Why? Because we listened, acknowledged, and set about to better the welfare of the people concerned.

No, we ain't got it right, Far from it. But at least it's a start. As opposed to our nearest neighbour, Australia.

To settle this issue requires cool heads and a good old fashioned meeting (Hui), and sort this potentially bloody embarrassing mess out.

[edit on 25-12-2007 by Mr Gunter]

[edit on 25-12-2007 by Beachcoma]

Originally posted by Dero

Originally posted by spacevisitor

“Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee” and this is the way it really happened.

Really? If that's how it really happened, you must have actually been there, right?

Hi Dero, actually you are right, I wasn’t there of course, and in reality it was even worse.

Originally posted by Dero
I call shenanigans. C'mon your source is wikipedia?? There's a reason it's free, ya know.

Well, perhaps you are in a way right again, so I googled a bit and find this source, and guess what, its also free, ya know.

The Europeans brought with them not only a desire and will to conquer the new continent for all its material richness, but they also brought with them diseases that hit the Indians hard. Conflicts developed between the Native Americans and the Invaders, the latter arriving in overwhelming numbers, as many "as the stars in heaven". The Europeans were accustomed to own land and laid claim to it while they considered the Indians to be nomads with no interest to claim land ownership. The conflicts led to the Indian Wars , the Indian Removal Act empowered by President Andrew Jackson in 1830 and other acts instituted by the Europeans in order to accomplish their objectives, as they viewed them at the time. In these wars the Indian tribes were at a great disadvantage because of their modest numbers, nomadic life, lack of advanced weapons, and unwillingness to cooperate, even in their own defense.

The end of the wars more or less coincided with the end of the 19th century. The last major war was not really a war, it was a massacre in 1890 where Indian warriors, women, and children were slaughtered by U.S. cavalrymen at Wounded Knee , South Dakota , in a final spasm of ferocity.

A stupefying record of greed and treachery, of heroism and pain, had come to an end, a record forever staining the immense history of the westward movement, which in its drama and tragedy is also distinctively and unforgettably American.

Source; www.nativeamericans.com...

Well, I dont think we would send in the military ... try more like the US Marshals and the BIA Police, possibly the National Guard - it would be like the AIM Wounded Knee Siege in the 1970s.

[edit on 25-12-2007 by ChrisF231]

Originally posted by lakotawillfail
what will they do with US money?? it will be voided there because they arent the US and the US is gonna want that money back.

Are you saying that US Dollars are not acceptable forms of currency in any other country?

That is interesting, because I travel abroad a few times a year, and most places will happily accept US Dollars in payment, and in those countries that don't I can always find a currency exchange to help me out.

I am sure this tribe will do just fine making money from casinos and whatever natural resources are on their lands.

Originally posted by lakotawillfailif they do get their own nation they will have no military,

They have no need for an army... they are completely surrounded by the USA. Who can attack them? Well, of course the USA can attack them, but even if they had a huge army that wouldn't stop the USA anyway, from what I have seen in the past. I am not saying the USA would win, but it wouldn't stop USA from attacking LOL. And besides, who is to say they will have no military? What will stop them from forming one?

Originally posted by craig732

Are you saying that US Dollars are not acceptable forms of currency in any other country?
That is interesting, because I travel abroad a few times a year, and most places will happily accept US Dollars in payment, and in those countries that don't I can always find a currency exchange to help me out.

That makes no sense to me either. Lakota would have to accept USD in order to stay alive if it were to become its own single entity away from the US.

I am sure this tribe will do just fine making money from casinos and whatever natural resources are on their lands.

Casinos are hardly a way to go about making a solid profit for a nation.

They have no need for an army... they are completely surrounded by the USA. Who can attack them? Well, of course the USA can attack them, but even if they had a huge army that wouldn't stop the USA anyway, from what I have seen in the past. I am not saying the USA would win, but it wouldn't stop USA from attacking LOL. And besides, who is to say they will have no military? What will stop them from forming one?

Well lets be real, Mr. craige. The USA is the worlds sole superpower. I think that answers your question in the form of a war with a nation that would just now be trying to establish itself. Lakota wouldnt be able to compete with the US in regards to attracting scientists either. Scientist are the valuable asset to any nations military for obvious reasons. R&D cost also need to be taken into consideration. And the US currently accounts for nearly 40% of the worlds spending on R&D. I dont want to derail this thread by getting into pure speculation, a war with the US by this newly sovereign nation would be suicide for lakota. I think we all know that though. Even the Lakotians.

I am not sure, but didnt Abe Lincoln say that any state that tried to succeed from the union would be met with force? I am not for sure on this, if someone could help me out on that?



[edit on 25-12-2007 by West Coast]

reply to post by lakotawillfail


Yes, I was on here on the 24th, and again today. But I didn't sign up yesterday, taking a name that has a built in subject bias so narrowly focused, either.

And this "pussy hippy" lived at Mission SD and worked on a cattle ranch there long before the Second Battle of Wounded Knee. So I'm no city boy that doesn't understand.

As to corporations. You do understand that for religious reasons, the Lakota try to protect the Black Hills as well as their own scrubland Rez? So when uranium mining seeks to come to SD, it worries the whole Nation.

www.rapidcityjournal.com...

Big corporations, any way you slice it. And if you read carefully you'll see why there is a bit of worry here. Their method puts selenium and arsenic back into the holes, often to end up in the ground water. And the largest claimholders in the area uranium are mining companies.

And since the government is the biggest controller of uranium in America, and the BIA is a government agency, how hard would these corporations have to work to get every bit of Indian land they wanted? And how easy would it be for the BIA to coverup any groundwater problems that came from that?

You came here with an agenda, to make it all sound ridiculous, and to assure us there were no big corporate interests with an eye on SD. You are wrong.

I revise my opinion that you work for the corporations. You sound just smart enough to work for the BIA.



[edit on 25-12-2007 by NGC2736]

lol i dont work for the BIA and also i farm some of the land in that area and if they become a nation what will happen to my land?? i have winter wheat planted on it and i also have worked alot with cows and still do. so if they are a seperate nation do i then lose my crops i put a lot of money into?? i dont think i am willing to let that happen. also i doubt ur from mission SD. if ur truly from there what is the area code of south dakota and the first 3 numbers from mission?

reply to post by lakotawillfail


Better yet, look up the old Teachout ranch. It was the T bar A just south of town heading towards Valentine. It was directly across the road from the L7. I drove cattle spring and fall to the White River for summer grazing. I remember when the jail had a sign that said "Heartbreak Hotel" over the door.

Talk to some old timers.

Originally posted by lakotawillfail
...also i farm some of the land in that area and if they become a nation what will happen to my land??

Maybe after taking the land back
Maybe you'll be set up with a small little spot
called pailface reservation where you'll get promises
that are never filled.

I'm sorry you'll loose you land but hey at least you
weren't killed in getting it taken from you right?

I think my people have been patient enough.

ur ppl seriously stfu i mean the lakotas are not oppressed by white ppl they might have been 150 years ago but not today! and none of the treaties that werent lived up to ever effected u in anyway it may have effected ur ancestors but not u so stop complaining and just go on with life on the rez. and as for my land i am not going to let a bunch of racist activist indians take it away from me. its not my fault they hate white ppl. i mean i dont hate natives i have lots of native friends. i live on 15 miles from the rez and i am not racist so why are some racist against me? on the subject of racism why is it that its ok for natives to be racist against whites but not whites against indians??

Well, despite your post telling everyone to stfu, I will point out that many Indians have white friends. And it hasn't made any difference. Indians still get the short end of the stick because the government knows that even a totally united voting block of Indians can't effect elections on a national level.

I doubt anyone really wants your land. I have stated before that the majority of Native People all over this country only want self rule and a ceasing of the Indian treaties being ignored when some rich fat cat from Washington sees a chance to make a buck off of them.

And nothing has been said, outside of the heated exchanges here, about deporting people based on them not being Indian, even if this somehow did come to pass. Don't you imagine the Lakota would need good wheat farmers? If you chose to become a citizen of that new nation, what would change so much for you personally? You might even start getting a decent profit from your crops.

Now, if you don't stop cussing at me, I'm gonna' come back up there and take your scalp.

reply to post by mythatsabigprobe


Hm wonder if they would allow human mutts (I do have a little Cherokee in me but not enough to be a member in any tribal thing) to move there. If they are able to break away.