I have a few words about Mr. Paul

Thank you! And I have yet to see Ron Paul excluded from any debates either unlike Mike Gravel and now Dennis Kucinich. Richardson however has been rising in the polls so that gets him some more time however. Even at the last debate apparently Chris Dodd had more air time. For the other issues on Paul and any other candidate you're curious about visit www.ontheissues.org... I use them all the time and they're very reliable. I've checked them with people I keep an eye on and it's right. On the main page they have all the candidates listed of the two parties so I believe you just click the person's picture and it'll show you all that information you're wondering about.

Originally posted by Mutantalien1947
Ron Paul has not been shut out of anything and there is no conspircy. I watch Fox News and it was almost the lead story every hour about how much money he raised but it doesn't mean anything and he will never be elected as president. Most people at a time of war don't want a candiate who is talking about bringing all the troups home from around the world. That is stupid and the American people know it and is nothing more than a calculated ploy to appeal to democratic voters. I haven't seen one ad of his. What are his plans on building a fence on the border. What about oil independence, social security, high taxes, food prices, the war on terror, tort reform, partial birth abortions, stem cell research and on and on. And how about all the other candiates that have been shut down like Joe Biden, Bill Richardson, Tancrato, Hunter and the others that aren't front runners.

Look at the other polls. Did they have Dennis Kucinich or Mike Gravel on the democratic side? Did they have any other low tier candidates on either/or? Uh the last time I checked people were talking about the present not a few months ago. Maybe they didn't have him listed because there wasn't enough intrest. Again money does not equal votes.

Originally posted by NGC2736
reply to post by Mutantalien1947

 

Now just go back and look at the polls from the last few months. The candidates you mention were on them, and they fell out by their own lack of merit. But most of those same polls did not have RP on them.

I wonder why?

[edit on 18-12-2007 by SouthernBelle82]

reply to post by SouthernBelle82


Now Belle, take yourself an early afternoon mint julip and relax, I wasn't implying that I would ever knowingly shout at a lady.

Just look up the last 8 polls conducted by the Associated Press. They started back in March, and they didn't include Ron Paul on the list of choices until the very last poll they did in November.

Sweetie, that's called purposely ignoring a viable candidate.

And so now apparently it seems that the AP is the only poll out there right?

Originally posted by NGC2736
reply to post by SouthernBelle82

 

Now Belle, take yourself an early afternoon mint julip and relax, I wasn't implying that I would ever knowingly shout at a lady.

Just look up the last 8 polls conducted by the Associated Press. They started back in March, and they didn't include Ron Paul on the list of choices until the very last poll they did in November.

Sweetie, that's called purposely ignoring a viable candidate.

SouthernBelle is a plant... give her no never-mind. Since she is not part of the solution, she is part of the problem period

Now, let's see if I can get this right... if not, oh well.
My RP holiday lighting:

Originally posted by SEEWHATUDO

Up until last year I was a die hard conservative republican without a care in the world, I tuned in to my daily dose of Sean Hannity every evening and was perfectly content, proud of being an American and believed I was absolutely free. What a bunch of lies!

I am sorry, but I highly doubt this.

This rhetoric is used by a load of shills who bash conservatives, fox news, bush and anything not liberal to their way of thinking.

"Hey I used to be a full blown (insert your opposite here) but I got da truth now and [blah blah blah]..."


While I agree the MSM is a bag of dog and pony tricks.. your comment is almost as bad.

Why do I call you out?

1. Conservatives do not think all is well in the world and we certainly have cares and concerns. You flippant comment makes it sound as if all conservatives could care less about anyone or anything.

This is 100% pure LIBERAL rhetoric with no basis in reality.

2. You saying you "believed I was absolutely free.", is not indicative of being a conservative, if you thought you were "totally free", you are/were ignorant to our system in the US, but again, I suspect that statement was for effect.


3. Hannity doesn't lie any more than his counter parts "lie".
Most of what the talking heads say on the "news" shows are based on the slant of their political affiliation and their opinion.

Keep in mind Hannity isn't a NEWS Program. (but you knew that)

A true conservative would take much of what he says as "truth" because it fits within their own belief system. A Liberal would call them "lies".

Homicide bomber Vs. Suicide bomber anyone?

It's more opinion than anything else.

You believing they are "lies" now shows us you were never a true conservative, or you are lying now to make a point.

4. Hannity is not Main Stream media, not even close.
It is for conservative consumption. You won't see a balanced debate there any more than you would on Bill Maher or Keith Olbermans show.

Just as Bill and Keith are 100% truthful, honest and without question in liberal eyes, so are O'reilly, Hannity and Rush in the conservative eyes.

5. So now you are no longer “proud” to be an American?
Everything good America and Americans have done and will do in the future doesn’t mean anything? You perceive elections to be frauds and conservatives to be evil now so we should no longer be “proud”.

That is just really sad that you could be corrupted so easily.

Originally posted by SEEWHATUDO
I have 3 beautiful children that I love with all of my heart and I will do anything and everything to provide them with a bright future.

While I do not doubt that at all, if you fill your kids with information you glean from ATS you are doing them a disservice, telling them the elections are rigged, 9/11 was an inside job, there are aliens among us is just as bad as not telling them the opposite opinions.

It is none of my business but if you want them to grow up with a solid head on their shoulders you should let them see the world for what it is and not color it so much with your own prejudices..


just sayin.


as a conservative, I resent people like you who do this on forums all over the net and I am really tired of it.


I apologize for jumping off topic, I am a RP supporter and I hate the MSM for the lack of serious reporting. I just couldn't let this person get away with this, there is far too much of it here.

reply to post by SouthernBelle82


No, they are not. However, since they are one of the most widely distributed news agencies around, it does matter. Now I imagine I could go find more, I do recall seeing over half of the national polls leaving RP off just a couple of months ago. But it is not germane to the here and now.

You are not only allowed to disagree with the supporters of RP, me included, but I encourage you to do so. That is the American way, as it should be. It is the reason that members of my family have been sending soldiers to every war and "peacekepping" event since the 1700s.

You mentioned the abortion issue as a factor to be adverse to RP becoming president. But you failed to note the reason he voted against it. If you actually read up in this area, you will be surprised to find that he feels it is a states rights issue, and not something the federal government has any business deciding on. Again, following the Constitution.

But it is not this one issue, it is the concept of following the Constitution or having a society where rule by presidential decree becomes the norm.I realize that you have your set of perceptions, and I have mine. I can only hope, for the sake of this nation, the the twain shall one day soon meet. I urge you to honestly and without prejudice, review the voting records of all the candidates, and their reasons for that vote, and then decide what is best. No more, or less, should be expected of everyone.



[edit on 18-12-2007 by NGC2736]

Originally posted by NGC2736

You mentioned the abortion issue as a factor to be adverse to RP becoming president. But you failed to note the reason he voted against it. If you actually read up in this area, you will be surprised to find that he feels it is a states rights issue, and not something the federal government has any business deciding on. Again, following the Constitution.
[edit on 18-12-2007 by NGC2736]

I Like RP as much as the next guy but lets be clear eh?

en.wikiquote.org...

So do you say that to all the people with opposing view points or am I just special? There have been other people who have posted here with opposing view points with one post and leave. I'm actually trying to debate but y'all apparently just want people who agree with you and kiss your ass. Sorry hun the real world doesn't work like that either.

Originally posted by CowGirrl
SouthernBelle is a plant... give her no never-mind. Since she is not part of the solution, she is part of the problem period

Now, let's see if I can get this right... if not, oh well.
My RP holiday lighting:

reply to post by Mutantalien1947

What are his plans on building a fence on the border.

No amnesty, but border fence isn't so important
Q: You voted to support that 700-mile fence along the border with Mexico. Is there a need for a similar fence along the border with Canada?

PAUL: No. The fence was my weakest reason for voting for that, but enforcing the law was important, and border security is important. And we've talked about amnesty, which I'm positively opposed to. If you subsidize something, you get more of it. We subsidize illegal immigration, we reward it by easy citizenship, either birthright or amnesty.

Source: www.ontheissues.org...

What about oil independence

Voted NO on criminalizing oil cartels like OPEC.

Opponents support voting NO because:
We can only affect OPEC subsidiaries in the US. So the result of this bill would be to hurt US companies while not affecting OPEC itself.

OPEC is a cartel, but we have to deal with it diplomatically. The Sherman Anti-Trust Act was designed for US monopolies, not international state-run cartels.

We should focus on domestic policies to affect gas prices. We cannot respond to a short-term crisis with a long-term response.

Voted NO on removing oil & gas exploration subsidies.

Opponents support voting NO because:
I am wearing this red shirt today, because this shirt is the color of the bill that we are debating, communist red. It is a taking. It will go to court, and it should be decided in court.

This bill will increase the competitive edge of foreign oil imported to this country. If the problem is foreign oil, why increase taxes and make it harder to produce American oil and gas? That makes no sense. We should insert taxes on all foreign oil imported. That would raise your money for renewable resources. But what we are doing here today is taxing our domestic oil. We are raising dollars supposedly for renewable resources, yet we are still burning fossil fuels.

Voted NO on keeping moratorium on drilling for oil offshore.

Opponents support voting NO because:
For 30 years, opponents of American energy have cloaked their arguments in an environmental apocalypse. They have tried to make the argument that no matter what we do, it will destroy the environment.

This amendment takes out all of the energy production. It is a callous disregard for the jobs that have been lost over the last 30 years of following an anti-energy policy. The people who work in oil and gas, their jobs are in the Middle East or Canada. We have exported their jobs. If this amendment passes, we are going to send the rest of them. We should know how important it is to create jobs in this country, to create clean natural gas in this country, so that it can be the bridge to the future.

Source: www.ontheissues.org...

social security

The Social Security crisis is a spending crisis. The program could be saved tomorrow if Congress simply would stop spending so much money, apply even 10% of the bloated federal budget to a real trust fund, and begin saving your contributions to earn simple interest. That this simple approach seems impossible speaks volumes about the inability of Congress to cut spending no matter what the circumstances.

Source: www.lewrockwell.com...

high taxes

In Washington we hear a lot of talk about tax cuts, but the rhetoric does not always match the reality. For most Americans, taxes remain too complex and too high. After the tumult of the upcoming midterm election, it is imperative that Congress gets back to basics and addresses our terrible tax system.
Lower taxes benefit all Americans by increasing economic growth and encouraging wealth creation. I’m in favor of cutting everybody’s taxes – rich, poor, and otherwise. Whether a tax cut reduces a single mother’s payroll taxes by forty dollars a month, or allows a business owner to save thousands in capital gains and hire more employees, the net effect is beneficial. Both either spend, save, or invest the extra dollars, which helps all of us more than if those dollars were sent to the black hole known as the federal Treasury.

Source: www.lewrockwell.com...

food prices

Syracuse, N.Y.: Food Security is an important issue in this country. You have stated you don't support agriculture subsidies. What is your vision for our food security and the future of American farming? Can we feed ourselves if we need to, and how can we ensure a safe local food supply in a time of rising oil prices and dwindling supply?

Rep. Ron Paul: I think we absolutely could supply our own food without subsidies. With them, you're paying for overproduction. I don't think there'd be a bit of a problem with food security, if you reject that notion you reject the whole notion of the free market system. Once you get the government involved in agriculture you'll have nothing but problems and expenses -- now we're in an inflationary period again, and food prices are going up and they're going to continue to do so.

Source: discuss.washingtonpost.com...

the war on terror

The clincher is this: the strongest motivation, according to Pape, is not religion but rather a desire "to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory the terrorists view as their homeland."
The best news is that if stopping suicide terrorism is a goal we seek, a solution is available to us. Cease the occupation of foreign lands, and the suicide missions will cease. Between 1982 and 1986, there were 41 suicide terrorist attacks in Lebanon. Once the U.S., the French, and Israel withdrew their forces from Lebanon, there were no more attacks. The reason the attacks stop, according to Pape, is that the Osama bin Ladens of the world no longer can inspire potential suicide terrorists despite their continued fanatical religious beliefs.

Source: www.antiwar.com...

reply to post by Mutantalien1947

tort reform

First, this is federal meddling in an area of law not given it under our Constitution or legal tradition.

Second, as experience has shown, federal "solutions" tend to dumb down a process, rather than encourage excellence. One need look only at that state of our schools to see the most practical example of that premise. In the arena of law, one can examine the results of the 1973 Roe v Wade decision, which took abortion law out of the purview of the states and gave it to the federal courts.

Source: www.ronpaulforums.com...

partial birth abortions

stem cell research

The issue is not whether the federal government should fund one type of stem cell research or another. The issue is whether the federal government should fund stem cell research at all. Clearly there is no constitutional authority for Congress to do so, which means individual states and private citizens should decide whether to permit, ban, or fund it. Neither party in Washington can fathom that millions and millions of Americans simply don’t want their tax dollars spent on government research of any kind. This viewpoint is never considered.

Source: www.lewrockwell.com...

and on and on

I could go on and on if you give me more questions but I would really suggest watching interviews online and using Google, for my sake. I hope I cleared some things up for you though.

You seem to be focused on just one poll. I don't know about you but I go by all the polls to get an idea. You can't just go by one poll because that doesn't give you enough of a look at what's going on with polls. And as I said I don't do online polls since anyone and everyone can spam them for their candidate no matter who it is. Well apparently not to majority of the people in this thread. Majority of them are being very disrespectful and just wanting their own view points and instead of treating me with some sort of respect for my views they just bash me and tell me I'm mentally ill and all this other bullcrap because I happen to have the nerve to believe in a different form of government. It's hypocritical and typical. And hun that's what I've done. I'm going nothing more than Ron Paul's own voting record and his own words and nothing more.

Originally posted by NGC2736
reply to post by SouthernBelle82

 

No, they are not. However, since they are one of the most widely distributed news agencies around, it does matter. Now I imagine I could go find more, I do recall seeing over half of the national polls leaving RP off just a couple of months ago. But it is not germane to the here and now.

You are not only allowed to disagree with the supporters of RP, me included, but I encourage you to do so. That is the American way, as it should be. It is the reason that members of my family have been sending soldiers to every war and "peacekepping" event since the 1700s.

You mentioned the abortion issue as a factor to be adverse to RP becoming president. But you failed to note the reason he voted against it. If you actually read up in this area, you will be surprised to find that he feels it is a states rights issue, and not something the federal government has any business deciding on. Again, following the Constitution.

But it is not this one issue, it is the concept of following the Constitution or having a society where rule by presidential decree becomes the norm.I realize that you have your set of perceptions, and I have mine. I can only hope, for the sake of this nation, the the twain shall one day soon meet. I urge you to honestly and without prejudice, review the voting records of all the candidates, and their reasons for that vote, and then decide what is best. No more, or less, should be expected of everyone.



[edit on 18-12-2007 by NGC2736]

Belle, you being a socialist is not what makes you deranged, you highjacking this thread, and throwing your baseless rants throughout the pages of this discussion is what makes you deranged. You are more then entitled to your opinion, as I am and everyone else is on this site. However when you keep posting when people have asked you to either join the original topic, or leave, you just keep going. I know you are going to a community college, you have all this information that is being pumped into your head, and you want to share it with all of us. After all it is such a good idea according to you and whoever put it in your head, it just has to be the only way. You arent going to convince anyone here that socialism is what we need to help this country. So please for the love of all that is good, add to the original topic or leave. Someone was nice enough to start a thread on why we shouldnt support Ron Paul, please go there to continue your opposition to him, we will all be glad to continue dialogue with you in there.

reply to post by SouthernBelle82


Oh look, the entitled waste of societies money is back! Did you need another leg up? Come here to lobby for a tax increase so you could buy more cheeseburgers with your welfare check?

Here's a good read on the topic, also might explain why SouthernBelle is so against RP if she's for Huckabee.

Who Are These Kooks? by Chuck Baldwin

reply to post by gormly


But his personal opinion isn't the point. Hell, he could just as easily believe in euthanasia, yet support the Constitutional position of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".

Too many people want to vote for what they want, not what is legal under the Constitution. The federal government now leaves almost nothing for the local population to decide. This is why we have a "nanny state". Those things that are not directly listed in the Constitution as federal rights are up to the states to decide.

Now the guys a baby doctor, so do you really expect him to be for abortion? For Pet's sake, you're not voting the guy in as American Idol, you want somebody that follows the law. We've already had too many people in the Oval Office who thought they had a mandate to change America.

reply to post by SEEWHATUDO


Like the days before and after the Great Civil War. America (specifally middle class christian whites) are again faced with a daunting delima ---

"What side of the moral fence should they be on"???

Do they roll with their traditional political Golden Boy's?? The ones who respresent "all thats good for the continued & immoral warring conquests of their race" or do they jump on the ship of reality??

HUMMM??

Do they continue down the road of ignorance and keep societial slavery alive ...or do they stand up and vote for what we know is morally right for the a peaceful continuation of mankind.

Will the same middle class White America... have the "BALLS" to do the right thing they feel in their gut... or just stand back and vote for their lying, FAKE ANGELS of democracy and so called freedom, again?

Right now (M.C.W.A) or middle class white America hold the cards in their confused hands like always... Right?? You are the majority.

Understanding all those assassinations of all who where actually good for the people (Lincoln, Kennedy & King) will they make the right choice this time?? Can M.C.W.A see past the BS this time and see Ron Paul makes sence -- or will they again be the puppets Bob Dylan sings about in his famous song??

...........ONLY VOTES WILL TELL

On front page of cnn.com:

Who is Ron Paul, the $6 million candidate?

Looks like a little MSM attention!

Funny how you haven't said that to anyone else who has come into the thread and posted their opposing view points as well. You're just signaling out me which is pathetic. Get over it already! You're bitching about it more than I am. Being pumped into my head? Uh hello hun that's the whole point of going to college! Learning about your major so you can get that degree so you can get a job! Did you go to college hun? Do you have a degree in something? Well if you do than you were "brainwashed" too. Pathetic. So take your own rant. You aren't going to force me or the country to go with libertarianism. You're a hypocrite and nothing more. I have my own opinions that are different from yours. Get over it!

Originally posted by gunner36
Belle, you being a socialist is not what makes you deranged, you highjacking this thread, and throwing your baseless rants throughout the pages of this discussion is what makes you deranged. You are more then entitled to your opinion, as I am and everyone else is on this site. However when you keep posting when people have asked you to either join the original topic, or leave, you just keep going. I know you are going to a community college, you have all this information that is being pumped into your head, and you want to share it with all of us. After all it is such a good idea according to you and whoever put it in your head, it just has to be the only way. You arent going to convince anyone here that socialism is what we need to help this country. So please for the love of all that is good, add to the original topic or leave. Someone was nice enough to start a thread on why we shouldnt support Ron Paul, please go there to continue your opposition to him, we will all be glad to continue dialogue with you in there.

Aww how sweet. You're showing your ignorance and doing sterotypes. Awww!!! Oh do you drive on the roads that were paved by the federal government? Well better not do that. Do you get mail delivered to your house? Oops there you go again. Do you support having the fire and police departments? Oops there you go again. Hypocritical and typical.

Originally posted by aravoth
reply to post by SouthernBelle82

 

Oh look, the entitled waste of societies money is back! Did you need another leg up? Come here to lobby for a tax increase so you could buy more cheeseburgers with your welfare check?