FLIGHT 93 - The Biggest 911 Smoking Gun!

The next post i quoted in its fullness do to the quality of the opinion and the fact i acidently burried it without anyone seeing it.

Thank you Eyewitness for you contribution.






[edit on 10-1-2008 by IvanZana]

Originally posted by eyewitness86
We have all heard and seen the tape of the news interview with an eyewitness that was on the scene. He said that there was a hole about 15-20 feet long and about 10 feet wide. It was smoking but there was no fire, no wreckage at all, NOTHING to distinguish that a plane had crashed. This news piece also mentioned and showed the wreckage strewn over miles.

I can dig it up if need be, but it is a classic and I assume most here are familiar with it already. It proves that there was, just like at the Pentagon on the first report, NO PLANE debris and no evidence of any plane crash at all. One person sees a smoking hole and some stooge says ' A plane crashed ". then, the guy goes out and tells everyone that HE saw a ' plane ' crash because he saw smoke and someone SAID it was a plane. They assume and spread, over and over, until the lie becomes established as fact!! At least to those who rely on others to ferret out the truth.

There was NO huge airplane at the Pentagon OR in Pennsylvania and it all was part of the mirage and coverup. The plan was brilliant, and one reason I want the perps unmasked fully is to know what genius staged this affair: It had to be a team of people with amazing skills and seared consciences, to be sure. They had to be convinced that initiating the ' struggle ' against ' terrorism ' was worth the sacrifice of several thousand lives on 9-11 and almost a million more overseas since. They will kill as many as they need to to accomplish their primary goals. Their goals are laid out in the PNAC paln and other documents that reveal the intent of the AIPAC/ Cheney cabal. Bush is a moron, a stooge..used and discarded by the real players as needed.

Why do you think that the Bush clan is buying up hundreds of thousands of acres of land way down in Paraguay? No extradition from there, a comfy life hobnobbing with the old Nazi mentors from days gone by, little Georgies hero's..and a warm and safe way to insure a free and lush lifestyle until the grim reaper rides into town to face off the scoundrels and intoduce them to their new boss, Lucifer.

But for now they believe that they are untouchable; they ignore all laws they do not care to abide by, they murder and kidnap whomever they wish without scrutiny from any agency or person, they run this nation trillions of dollars into debt and ruin the economy, they lie us into wars for profit and territorial conquering ...and the Republicans applaud and cheer!! The Democrats cower in their lairs and wonder if they will get in trouble if the dare take the monsters to task at all. Why, Fox news might call them bad names!! Their corporate pals who lavish money on them might stop the flow..nope, better not mess with that, huh?

No wonder this nation is on the rocks..in every way. The people are so far removed from the real truth that they are literally living in a created reality..

Recall the immortal words of Carl Rove? He said that we mere humans were living in the ' real world ' and that was gone now: He said that they were ' Creating the new world and new reality..those in the reality based world will lose, because the new reality is not what they think it is"..or words to that effect. I am not quoting but that was the general gist of it. Reality based thinking is old fashioned now!! Because the Bush gang has created and is creating its OWN reality, and we must all change our view of reality to match what they say it is...see?

Never in American history has such an evil and nefarious gang gotten to such high office. The criminals pardoned by Daddy Bush are all now the main players in Jr. Bushies world. Felons and murderers and cheaters and liars..political animals without a shred on decency among them all..that is the group that Bush and Cheney placed in charge. No wonder the Justice Dept. has fallen apart..no wonder the CIA is furious with the traitors at 1600 Penn. Ave., no wonder the dollar is worth less and less..it is all part and parcel of the grand plan, purposeful and intended to bring the middle class to extinction in America and place a police state into effect.

Nothing is done by accident. Not at that level. There are no spontaneous moves, it is all calculated far in advance. The media is gone..worthless..and the people are ignored by the newspapers and such. NO investigative journalism has taken place, except for Greg Palast and a few others, very few, for over 10 years. The Clinton scandals were the last time the media stuck its nose up the skirts of the players..not because what they found last time disgusted them, but because they were told not to..never ever look for dirt where our ' friends ' are concerned, and believe me they have friends everywhere the dollar is God..or rather, the Swiss franc or any other stable currency.

If Sibel Edmonds would be given the appropriate time on nationwide TV, and if someone with half a brain were to interview Norman Mineta and then Dick Cheney and explain what happened that day in the bunker, we would see the kind of reaction that gets things done. The people would be outraged. But 90% of Americans have no idea who Sibel is and what her case is about...and 90% of Americans, even if they have questions, still do not believe down deep that 9-11 was an inside job. They mostly think negligence, as that always seems to be the most plausiable answer ; the government screws up so much that people assume anything that happens can be marked up to incompetence..but of course we know better.

Mere incompetence could not explain the Towers turning into dust, or the fact that the FBI testified at the Mossaoui trial that NO calls took place from Barbara to Ted. ZERO seconds on the one call that made it thru. ZERO. There were NO calls from the Olsons, so why did Ted lie? Why has no reporter asked him why he lied? No, incomeptence can only avvount for a small fraction of one percent in any case..the system would have worked if it had been allowed to, but it was not. The CHENEY ORDER is a smoking gun and we all know it. WHY didn't the 9-11 Commission call the ' young officer ' in to ask him " What was the order that the VP gave that you were referring to?" Then he would say: " The order to stand down the Pentagon defenses". And then the fan splattering would start.

But of course, it would take a reported with a brain and guts to do it. And a paper or network that would dare risk the wrath

Originally posted by eyewitness86
They had to be convinced that initiating the ' struggle ' against ' terrorism ' was worth the sacrifice of several thousand lives on 9-11 and almost a million more overseas since. They will kill as many as they need to to accomplish their primary goals.

Okay, then what do you think would prevent them from knocking off a few more people that figured out how they did it?

I guess the fact that no one who investigates these allegations has been silenced or killed means that the folks who supposedly committed this now no longer care if someone finds out it was faked?

Anyone who is able to kill thousands of their own countrymen would have no qualms about getting this website (or any other) shut down if they came close to exposing them. What is a few more peoples deaths on your hands after pulling that.

As soon as I start hearing about people who investigate this getting killed or silenced, I might start acutally believing that there is something going on here.

reply to post by Pilgrum


Now you are really stretching physical reality. You want to assume whoever made up that bogus list did not mean what they wanted to mean. That is their problem. They created the confusion, with the part of the population versed in the fields they wanted to bogusly tinker with, and no expert in those fields among them at the head of the class.

Most either dropped out of college (Cheney from Yale in his sophomore year as a generational student who would have been tapped for Skull and Bones), and/or were so wealthy they never had a work a day in their lives at grades or a real job. Their touted grades are not even credible, considering their projected characters as adults. Cheney only attended Yale to get out of the Vietnam draft and lottery. Once it was over, he felt free to be a college drop-out and go to work for the Nixon people.

They owe a full explanation to the general public, and they (whoever specific they are) has to give it. That would people in the Bush adminstration. Their "evidence" bogusly fed to the general public. They have some tall explaining to do on that one and much more bogus "evidence" they fed to the general public. Like no positively ID'd plane parts, bodies, or luggage at and around Shanksville, PA.

Lets not debate over if cell phone can be used.

[edit on 10-1-2008 by IvanZana]

reply to post by IvanZana



From my perspective, I am seeing assumed reasons the personally use to rationalize their way through just Shanksville, PA, I would never have had the opportunity to see otherwise. Unless I deliberately searched for it, with hope of finding specifics in thousands upon thousand of forums across the Internet.

This forum gives dedicated opportunity to soundly refute those bogus assumptions, with valid reasons many people never think of giving, such as audit of all that bogus paperwork someone in the Bush administration is obligated to qualify upon demand. Demand by the general public and/or demand law makers in Congress and/or a court of law.

reply to post by OrionStars
Can you discount the still-living recipients of those calls plus the fact many were recorded?
I can't believe they were 'in on it' too or how big is this throng of accessories to the crime going to swell to

reply to post by Pilgrum


Then you do not understand how radio waves can get on overload, with people trying to use the same frequency, particularly, the further away from ground towers those frequencies must travel, without any interference onboard, in-between, or on the ground.

If the pilot jacks up his gain for any reason, though on another dedicated frequency, that can interfere with airfone use though airfones are on a different frequency.

Ever have to keep tuning a radio when a station you are listening to appears to be off frequency? It is not necessarily off frequency. You can be running by another station on another frequency with higher power, and have that frequency interfer with the station's to which you are listening. Anything can interfere with radio waves. Airfones were never as dependable as the rationalizers of the "official" reports contend them to be.

I seriously doubt any alleged hijakers are going to be allowing any alleged hostages to give away their plans, when they have many miles left to go to hit their intended targets. As was the case of alleged Flight 93 taking the long scenic route over Cleveland, Ohio and backtracking 100s of miles.

People cannnot realistically fall back on, "Well, they were stupid hijackers.", and at the same time contend the alleged were brilliant enough to get as far as they were alleged to have gotten. You cannot have it both ways.

reply to post by Pilgrum


Would you care to hear about the telephone party lines? Before modern tech primarily stopped all that with private lines for every individual line to any individual telephone location.

Please keep in mind, I lived during those days when party lines were the norm not the exception. Same principle when interference occurs between radio waves on the exact same frequency.

Only telephone lines and a switchboard at the telephone companies control that not radio waves. Still, I have had strangers cutting into my telephone conversations through no fault of their own, after individual private lines became the norm at telephone switchboards.

reply to post by eyewitness86


From the location in the air those tapes were filming, no one could clearly distinguish what they saw on the ground. We were told by reporters it was aiplane parts, but no reporters were allowed to film up close and personal. Reporters, including those from Fox, said they were told, which means they did not see or tape it up close and personal.

It was supposed to be a crime scene. We have already been informed, in this discussion, by the "official" report side, that the FBI got there first before local first responders. How would anyone else know what was there if they were not allowed on the scene first as first responders? The pieces of hearsay were described as anywhere between the size of a telephone book to a briefcase (larger than a telephone book). There was no actual up close and personal immediate filming of anything on 9/11/2001 immediately after the alleged crash.

Voice morphing is now down to a science, as proven many times already. All the perps had to do was get a few seconds worth of a persons voice, from a tapped phone, a mike placed anywhere, etc. and then morph the words they want heard and place the call. The few calls that may have been real sound exactly like someone reading from a script, and a script that makes no sense at all. For example:

Listen to Betty Ong talk about her situation. Listen to her voice, her words, and her demeanor. It is just as if she is reading from some script, or has someone at her elbow giving directions. She is really repeating what she is being told relayed from the FRONT of the plane. The transcripts, which I posted elsewhere on ATS, show that in the front of the plane ( 77 ) supposedly headed to the Pentagon,the flight attendant up front was just as puzzled about what was happening as Betty was: NO ONE in the crew or that made a cal saw anyone enter the cockpits!!

They keep wondering if a highjacking is taking place..imagine that! Betty repeats what she is told: There is gas up front, people cannot breathe..BUT she is breathing fine, and there is NO coughing, yelling, raised voices, nothing in the ambient noise on Bettys call to suggest that any crisis was going on. None. The girl up front was repeating what SHE was told..and then it was relayed to Betty in the rear of the plane, who was relaying it to the ground. Betty was NOT describing what she was SEEING. she was describing what she was TOLD by the stew up front.

Then, as if that isn't enough intrigue for one flight, Barbara olson allegedly did the following, depending on which story of Ted's you believe: There are several. First, Ted said that Barbara had called him from a seatback phone. Twice. Then, when it was brought up that there might not have been any seatback phone service and there was no record on any billings of any calls to him, the story chaged!! Imagine that! Now, Ted said that Barbara called COLLECT ! She supposedly had FORGOTTEN her credit cards, all of them, that day as she traveled on business ( yeah,right) and had to BORROW a card from some soul so generous that they let Barbara call her husband rather than the card owner calling THEIR loved ones to say farewell..talk about generous souls!! What are the odds?

Then, Ted remarries and all is forgotten; until the trial of Zacharias Mossaoui. the FBI agents testified that there were ZERO calls of ANY duration made from that plane to Ted. It listed TWO attempts, and NO completions. Only ZERO seconds on the one call that might have gotten thru. ZERO. So, either Ted lied and is a part of the thing, or he was voice morphed and the perps just didn't count on the discrepancies in the phone records to ever be examined in a detailed manner: The trial made that possible.

In any event, there is adequate proof from the Olson scam that the cell calls were either faked or part of the GAMES that day. most people do not place the GAMES up front like they should. Without the games, there could be no 9-11. Inserting flase blips onto the radar was a prime part of the plan, and allowed for excuses and delays to be accepted as surface evidence and dismissed. Betty was taking part in the games..or so she thought. The people who were taken out and eliminated thought that as well, no doubt.

To the poster that wonders about the perps not killing even more people: Every time some action is taken, it risks exposure to some degree. The perps know this. they always take the MINIMUM number of actions to accomplish their goals, as this limits as much as possible their exposure. The less incidents, the less that may be discovered in the future, the less people involved. Minimizing is a critical part of any operation, trimming all the fat off and leaving only what is necessary to get the job done.

Why should Bush and Cheney care about ATS or what is on the net? The congress and senate are too timid to do anything, and they know damned well that WE cannot do anything but educate each other, so they fear nothing, and unless they fear something, there is no reason for them to bother with it at all. And, who knows how many behind the scenes people have died since the event? No way to tell. look at how many biologists that have high security clearances and work on secret stuff have died under very weird circumstances..there are too many to be coincidence.

Remember, 9-11, as bad as it was, is just one element in a series of incidents that are meant to determine the outcome of the Neocons intended coup..a total coup. They no doubt have other plans in the works to push and shove us into a place where Bush's new executive orders giving him full control will seem to be legitimized, at least to the drones who watch Fox and the totally worthless congress and senate. that will be the nail in the coffin, from their the burial can be delayed, but it will come. America in ruins, the people controlled, the media cooperative to the max....they win, in other words.

When repressive measures are taken, they are seldom ever lifted again. The ' protection ' seems so vast and comforting the the pundits that we will never again see a Constitutional Right be of any use to us. Bush thinks the Constitution is just a ' Goddamned piece of paper ' anyway so no wonder he defactes on it so regularly. Did you know, by the way, that OUR tax dollars pay for Bush's POOP to be saved and kept in secure containers and carried around the globe with him when he travels? True! It is so no one can analyze his ' essence ' and determine state secrets or some hogwash..probably so the painkillers and SSI's and booze and coke doesn't get discovered!!

All it really takes to pull off a 9/11 or install a Nazi regime, is the Establishment counting on people wanting to remain ignorant and apathetic coupled with "What's in it for me?" The masses will follow in large numbers - carrots on sticks for self-serving reasons. The conspirators are always foiled, by people refusing to allow anyone else to do their thinking for them, plus, feeling that deep emotional bond between all of the ecology, including humanity.

I highly recommend the reading of Aldous Huxley's Brave New World and George Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm. Human nature is completely spelled out in those fictional books, both positive and negative human nature.

Voice morphing, airphone, cellphones, are not the topic at hand.

A little off topic and highly debatable.


The topic was to prove that no Plane crashed in Shanksville.

[edit on 10-1-2008 by IvanZana]

[edit on 10-1-2008 by IvanZana]

reply to post by COOL HAND


How do you know they have not been? Do you know them personally?
Do you believe every time someone is murdered someone else runs to the police, including family members? They don't. Particularly, when people are playing in the major league of the ulta-wealthy, powerful international Establishment. "Suicides" and "natural causes" are falsely recorded far more often than the general public realizes. They are the most surreal cases of "suicide" and "natural cause" recorded in medical documentation.

Try the Vatican Bank scandal (Roberto Calvi) for validation of "suicide". Even Scotland Yard personnel testified in court it was the strangest case of "suicide", they had ever witniessed in all the years of being on that police force. The Mafia murderers were finally captured and found guilty, in a court of law, of murdering Roberto Calvi. No truthful suicide there.

Then try the surreal "natural death" claims surrounding Pope John Paul I, setting out to clean up the corruption in the Vatican and Vatican Bank.

www.guardian.co.uk...

It goes on more than anyone know. 9/11 is no different, considering who was truthfully involved in 9/11 mass murder of our own people. Murder is nothing to those types of personality disorders. They are sociopaths. They have no iota of conscience. The unholy trinity - Cheney, Rove and Rumsfeld - are living proof of that 24/7.

If people do not think 9/11 tracks back to the Vatican Bank scandal and further, they truly need to do research for follow the money and paper trails into 9/11/2001.

Both W's grandfathers (Walker and Bush) were working in direct collaboration with Hitler and the Nazi regime for several years. Both as fraternal brothers of Hitler and Hess, through Chapter 322 Skull and Bones/German Thule Society, and industrial-financial go between for banking families, such as the Rothschilds and US based Morgan family (Morgan-Stanley financial empire). FDR finally had to seize their US assets when the US finally declared war on Germany. Those men directly aided and abetted Hitler's rise to power in Germany.

reply to post by IvanZana


No one should be considering cell phones. Unless the planes were equipped for cell phones, which those alleged planes would not have been Cell phones are orderd shut off on airlines once they taxi on the runway begins. They can interfere with the instrument panel and the pilot's radiowave communication between air and ground. Same way and reason hospitals order all cell phones to be turned off inside the hospital.

Originally posted by OrionStars
How do you know they have not been? Do you know them personally?
Do you believe every time someone is murdered someone else runs to the police, including family members? They don't. Particularly, when people are playing in the major league of the ulta-wealthy, powerful international Establishment. "Suicides" and "natural causes" are falsely recorded far more often than the general public realizes. They are the most surreal cases of "suicide" and "natural cause" recorded in medical documentation.

No, I don't know them.

Does anyone here know of anyone who was investigating 9/11 who has suddenly disappeared or been silenced?

Even if someone found some kind of smoking gun evidence, how would they get the word spread? The gov't would prevent their use of technology to spread it (while at the same time trying to find them to elimnate them).

The fact that none of these things has happened, further proves that no one has found ACTUAL evidence that it was anything other than what we all saw.

reply to post by eyewitness86


EC-130 psyops planes do not need the real person's voice, nor does any other tech sitting anywhere else. EC-130 cargo plane has the ability to intercept radar waves and telephone transmission, plus, use voice synthesis, so the receiver will not know it is not the person to whom they believe they are speaking. They can intercept into telephone transmission. The same way they wire tap phones overtly or covertly. All voice synthesis tech needs is enough words, through telephone intercept, to exactly emulate that person's dialect, vocal chord pattern sounds, pronounciation of words, and breathing pattern sounds when talking.

That is what they exactly synthsize. Then every word uttered by another person sounds just like the voice pattern of the one to whom that voice actually belongs. Even parents will be unable to tell the difference, particularly if someone throws a little static into the transmission and reception of both parties on a telephone.

It is no different than people having individual distinctive writing, and expert forgers have such artistic expertise, even experts have troubled determining what is real and what is not. Same with paintings, etc.

Even individual fingerprints are not safe from forgers any longer and have not been for a very long time. In nature, no two sets of fingerprints are identical. With forgery, they appear to be but are not.

reply to post by Pilgrum


After what I just posted for technology in voice synthesis, how do their loved onoes know they were actually speaking with their loved ones so far away? The answer is - they don't. That is how sophisticated technology was then and more sophisticated now.

reply to post by IvanZana


With all due respect, Ivan, it is all at the heart of determining what was possible or not possible on 9/11/2001. It is not just whether or not there were no plane parts, passengers or people on site or scattered miles away from an alleged crash scene. It is all those details as well.

Something has to be possible before it can transpire at all. That means paying heavy attention to details of what is or is not possible. The obvious is not what normally cracks open cases. We have enough innocent people in prisons, and finally being released, to prove that.

reply to post by eyewitness86


Ted and Barbara Olson are part of the PNAC membership. I would not be surprised to learn Ted committed bigamy in attempt to do more cover-up for the Bush administration.