Ramblings of Finnish school shooter

reply to post by starviego


I've honestly felt like that. Then I stopped taking my Antidepressants and got better.

I wonder how many of those people were taking medication that the pharm. companies absolutely refuse to accept, can cause such things...

No point talking to the doctor about it, they just give you a sneer and tell you there's nothing wrong with the AD's.

Yeah... And santa claus delivers their pay packets..

Latest news tell that also the school's nurse was one of the victims. The shooter has died last night at the hospital (Finnish time).

Eight dead, eleven wounded, but only one with a gun wound.

Originally posted by starviego
Acute schizophrenia, huh? Many school shooters have a record of being mentally 'treated' at some point before their rampage, though they are almost never diagnosed as schizophrenic beforehand. And most of the surviving school shooters do their time in the big house, not the nut house. Tellingly, their shrinks are never even interviewed.

Being prescribed any of the mind chemical altering drugs that are thrown around as magic pills, can cause a plethora of problems.

A young teen is prescribed an AD and the next thing theyre shooting up the school - yet never does the pharmaceutical company take full responsibility.

Zoloft on trial

What about Zoloft, in particular? Is it dangerous for children? Precisely because studies involving children are not required before a drug can be used in children, we simply don't know for sure.

Pfizer, the maker of Zoloft, denies that the drug causes delusions, hallucinations, or triggers violence. Responding to the defense strategy in the Pittman case, Pfizer issued a public statement rejecting the crime's connection to its popular antidepressant. (The statement, notably, does not mention specific concerns about the drug's effect on children.)

Link

Yet, the trail of trauma left in the aftermath of these drugs, is compelling.

Some of the patients who have suffered an akathisia reaction have been driven to horrible deeds. Matthew Miller was a 13-year-old who committed suicide less than a week after starting to take Zoloft. Donald Schell, 60, took two Paxil tablets before experiencing hallucinations and then shooting himself, his wife, their daughter, and their granddaughter to death on Feb. 13, 1998. On March 4, 1993, two weeks after starting to take Prozac, William Forsyth stabbed his wife 15 times as she lay in bed, and then leaned on the knife to kill himself. Reginald Payne, 63, a teacher in Great Britain, suffocated his wife and threw himself off a cliff in March 1996, after having taking Prozac for just 11 days.

Link

And not always without result -

In July, 2001, a federal jury in Cheyenne, Wyoming ordered GlaxoSmithKline to pay $6.4 million to Donald Schell's relatives. In that case, the relatives found internal GlaxoSmithKline documents showing the company was aware that a small number of people could become agitated or violent from Paxil. Despite this knowledge, Paxil packaging does not include a warning about suicide, violence or aggression.

Link

Im sure you know the details of the columbine shooting better than most, and have read reports that Eric was taking Zoloft a few weeks prior to the shootings.

The list goes on.

Having been on Zoloft, I know exactly what they are referring to. Having looked up the insane side effects and found one report after the other of people reporting the same bizarre behavior, and for the most part, NOT realising it until they stop, is uncanny.

The companies who do research these situations claim not to know how or why such drugs cause hallicinations, suicidal thoughts, violent erratic behavior, etc.

I can tell you why. These drugs that flush the brain with Seratonin act in much the same was as '___' or MDMA or most Amphetamines do. They do not however, cause a euphoria that offsets the otherwise nasty effects.

You wonder why they stopped research of '___' as a valid mood stabilizer in the 50's and 60's. And yet here today we have legal drugs that mimic the effects on the brain, without the euphoria associated with it.

So basically, my point is, I'd be looking at the pharmaceutical companies before anything else, first.

Is it necessary to say that we hope he dies, enjoys live as a vegetable, erase him from history, etc? Even though I do not condone the actions and choices he made, he is still a person with feelings. Suppose a family member did something like that? I dont think you would want your family to enjoy life brain dead. He is a kid as well. I guess this is just a little personal rant, but the bottom line of it is that we shouldnt automatically hate, or something like that.

And perhaps it is this mentality, the idea that we need to kill and watch evil doers suffer, that fuels the minds of these people that perform these evil acts? By hating wrong doers, they go out and deal with them themselves. This make sense to anyone?

Originally posted by starviego
New gun control legislation either is now, or soon will be, winding its way through the Finnish parliament.

ps And by the looks of it, this time they are going to go after the internet, big time. They are already calling him the "You Tube" killer.

Like this guy would not have done this if youtube wasnt around...

Youtube is a source for much more good than evil. But of course the powers that be will jump on this chance to control free opinions.

I read his youtube page and there was nothing there to suggest he would do this. Not the video, not the text. Youtube played no part in this.


[edit on 8-11-2007 by Copernicus]

i agree, there was nothing there to suggest he would do it, but still ,
i do believe youtube should censor these things, Neo nazi is fine by me, but he is looking a bit activist

Originally posted by Copernicus
Youtube is a source for much more good than evil. But of course the powers that be will jump on this chance to control free opinions.

I read his youtube page and there was nothing there to suggest he would do this. Not the video, not the text. Youtube played no part in this.

Ignore his page and instead focus on others who took their time to really rip him a new poopshoot.

And I mean he was a kook. But people were telling him to kill himself, bringing up school shootings, etc..

he already had this fascination, but I can bet there was an inkling of "This will show you lardy!" in there somewhere.

Bottom line is, you are correct. He had this problem all along. But it sure doesnt help when people are egging him on, to a degree..

i too agree, he was very much egged on, but it takes more than that to do what he did, childhood crisis maybe

Originally posted by starviego
New gun control legislation either is now, or soon will be, winding its way through the Finnish parliament.

Well, actually the process had started before this incident. EU wants to restrict gun ownership to 18yr olds or older, whereas in Finland you can get one at 15 for hunting. Finland was opposed to that legislation but we'll see how the tide goes. Though it's not really logical to put that particular restriction in place since the shooter was already 18 so he would've had an opportunity to get a gun legally even under the new legislation.

"I am a cynical existentialist, antihuman humanist, antisocial socialdarwinist, realistic idealist and godlike athiest"...

...and above all else, he was an idiot.

If I were "egged on" to shoot up a school, and I did it, I would be an idiot. So was he. There are no excuses.

The youtube hysteria is interesting, though. Over here (UK) recently there has been an enormous amount of publicity over youtube videos showing bullying and young idiots with guns showing them off to their friends online. The reality is that the interweb does offer an unregulated opportunity for that to happen.

But it's not YouTube's fault. It's the fault of the idiot with the gun. What next - "guns don't kill people, YouTube does"?

As Eddie Izzard puts it: "Guns don't kill people, people do - but I think the gun kind of helps...."

LW

My heart goes out to those who lost loved ones, the death of children is a terrible thing, especially from violence.

I also believe it to be satanic.

Originally posted by Trauma
My guess, and purely opinion: This guy was another mind-controlled school shooter. He posted a video on youtube the day before. Now the government can say that they need to monitor Youtube to prevent crimes. People who post anything mildly threatening will be arrested.

I also agree that the government uses these events to push there own agenda, it seems they like to distort tragedy for there gain.

But this is shark attack syndrome, 1 person gets bit by shark, millions go fishing instead of swimming. It is irrational, and they forget that 150 people a year die fishing.

No laws should be changed, no children should be put under zero tolerance programs, and nobody should think Internet should be 'thought policed' because of this.

Until.

Laws are changed to address the 3000 deaths of Americans or 100,000 Iraq deaths. To reduce the total deaths to less then 8 a year.

Laws are changed to stop the 1000's of DWI deaths.

Laws are changed to save 1000's that die earlier from bad eating smoking or not having health insurance.

Laws are changed to reduce stress so less people die of heart attacks.

Laws are changed to clean up all pollution that can be found to kill over 8 people world wide a year.

Laws are changed to clean up all drugs and end all illegal drug overdoses.

I think you get my point.

As terrible as this is, we need to have the courage to still remember what freedom is, and that sometime bad things happen. We also must have the compassion to help others we see in hardship. We also must have the ability to think and work on the real issues, not the ones we are only told about because of someone elses agenda.

[edit on 8-11-2007 by Redge777]

Originally posted by LoneWeasel
If I were "egged on" to shoot up a school, and I did it, I would be an idiot. So was he. There are no excuses.

Im taking the few two posts referring to me as they both include the phrase "Egged On" which I used. - Edited here because since posting its not the case of last 2 posts.

Let me make this clear, because it obviously wasn't in the post I made.

I DO NOT accept this as JUSTIFICATION for this clown to have done what he did.

He is a kook. A nutjob. But HE was >< close to the edge already, I'm saying PEOPLE WILL point the finger there !

Like it or not, but don't give me curry for it - I read the comments in one video directed AT him, and it was far from rational. He already exhibited the signs of someone on the edge of sanity.

Is giving him crap an excuse? NO.

I never said it was.





[edit on 8/11/2007 by badw0lf]

[edit on 8/11/2007 by badw0lf]

Last night on the radio people were discussing this shooting,and someone said that the internet should be trawled for keywords such as "massacre" "murder" etc.
Which led me to think about the so called "echelon" program...I would have thought such a program would cover the net as well as phone calls,so could something more have been done to prevent this shooting?

How long were the videos posted for?Maybe some computer somewhere should have passed on information about sturmgeist to the relevent authorities?

Originally posted by Silcone Synapse
so could something more have been done to prevent this shooting?

We could force everyone to watch the care bares 12 hours a day, while chained to assembly lines where they could not reach co workers, this might lower the odds of 8 people out of 6 billion dieing.

We could stop all people from being in contact with anyone else without straight jackets on and auto emotion inhibiting drugs and implants to stop any possible violent thought, thousands would die from the drugs, but the odds of 8 people dieing from this kind of violence would go down.

Yes, Billions could be put in jail, guarded by a select few, ofcoarse thousands will die at the hands of the jailers, but the odds of 8 people dieing might go down a bit.

Every time something like this happens I am reminded of being 16 and having fantasies of going into my school guns blazing, punishing my school for being so shallow. Whilst I brooded about the state of the world my peers cared about going out on Friday night, the latest celebrity gossip, and who was doing who. I felt at times like it was my “destiny “to teach them to care about something other then themselves.

There must have been signs, but no one noticed. They didn’t notice because they were busy working crazy hours to pay off the mortgage. They were busy trying to keep order in over crowded classrooms. They were busy fighting the “war on drugs“.

I don’t blame anyone specifically. The people who cared did the best they could. In the end I got through those angst ridden years without doing anything crazy.

I can however understand the feelings that someone might experience that could lead them down this path. I don’t condone it, I do however understand it.

reply to post by Redge777

Woah!! Easy there Redge,
I wasn't saying "lets go all totalitarian Brave new world and spy on everyone."
(Although we are there already)
I was just saying that when video's as obviously unhinged as those by sturmgeist are posted,flags should be raised somewhere.
I mean these keyword searching systems do exist and are used,right?

Originally posted by Radekus
I applaud you, finally someone says it,
I really didn't expect someone to figure this out.
But it goes deeper, he wants revolution,
..

he wanted to live in a different world, that's all, the rest is imho, simply a case of seeking attention. when you start to realise that the world you live in is an elaborate sham, suicide, ie. becoming a statistic, alone does not cut it, because it does not create ripples.

what he said he wanted was toppling today's society, what he got was simply a way out, what he truely intended probably was to leave a mark, somehow, falling into the trap of PR work, which revolves around the idea that everything can be changed by influencing public perception. furthermore, killing a few people just to get 'on air', to be heard is extremely similar to the concept of 'collateral damage', where other peoples' lives are willfully 'spent' like money in pursuit of an ideologically justifed goal.

the real question is whether the guy came up with all the drivel by himself or not. if it was all spoonfed, it begs the question who set the stage.


PS: if he believed that society as a whole worked against 3% of the population, him included, why bother telling them *anything* ? the 3% ought to know, methinks.

The guy wanted people to act in the same manner as he did-

Thats not a revolution,he had no aims other than to kill innocent people.
He was a sick twisted racist loser with nothing going for him in life(probably his own fault with that type of attitude).

If anything,this will just tighten up the rules of society that he was trying to break down.

Total LOSER.

Originally posted by Silcone Synapse


Thats not a revolution,he had no aims other than to kill innocent people.
He was a sick twisted racist loser with nothing going for him in life(probably his own fault with that type of attitude).



Total LOSER.

so he was a loser. what are you? the cool guy? who has all the friends but still makes fun of everybody.

i used to belong to the cool group in school when i was younger (im from finland btw) and we used to make fun of all people, bully people because it was fun. My life was good i had all i needed, today i still go to school i havent had contact with my old friends because they started to bully me. and now all i have left is dreams and thoughts about shooting people at my school taking my own life. and i even have it all planed out, how i could shoot people at my school i wont though.

just like the school shooter the only thing i love today is hate well of course hip hop too

sorry for my bad grammar and bad spelling, and most of you will probably miss understand what i said since i cant express what i wanted to say properly

[edit on 8-11-2007 by dahl]

from reading his manifesto and watching one of his older videos, it seems to me that hes just a "columbine high school massacre" groupie. his beliefs and opinions resembles that of eric harris and dylan klebold, even quoting eric in one of his videos.