Cop Pepper Sprays, Punches, Nearly Breaks Girl's Arm During Curfew Arrest

Originally posted by Rockpuck

I also find it odd that almost all the supporters of this girl are from a certain political side / agenda......

Oh really?

And what political side / agenda is being represented by supporters of this girl and what makes you think you know this?

Originally posted by Observer_PR
Stupid thread.

The cop did the right thing. The punch was instinctual,

you know, resisting and getting worked up when scared and not totally sure what is going on is instinctual...

that is not acceptable though. only the fuzz can be instinctual when they crack her in the face.

i don't care if people don't agree with my feelings that they should train. i stand by my opinions. i never said it would end all conflicts. i never said it would make all situations easy. can't compare prison inmates to 100 pound teens.

there is NOTHING to lose and everything to gain by making/encouraging the cops to train...how could people not want this? i don't get it.

Originally posted by Slayer

All of the things I have listed above can, and should, be debated. I'm not trying to choose sides or give one side of this debate more leverage, I'm merely trying to raise some questions that I think all of us should be asking ourselves.

I was going to debate some but I realized that it really doesn't matter. You want to analyze every few seconds and what we really have here is a girl that was crazed to the point the officer was having a hard time with her. He did what he thought he should do without the luxury we have of sitting back and suggesting what he should have done to make it perfect.

Did he take her in and get her off the streets without her being harmed...enough said...

Ive been caught after curfew when I was about 15 and when the cops came, they asked questions like "what you doin out here at 4 am", "do you have anything illegal on you", and all that stuff. Oh yea, I didnt talk smack or anything to them, i just said stuff like "i was bored at my house" , "no i dont have anything illegal", they searched me of course, i didnt resist. In the end, I was polite and they ended up calling my parents to pick me up. Didnt even put cuffs on me.

After watching this video, im prettysure the girl was doing something other than breaking curfew, or had something to hide, like drugs, and was problably on something - not reacting too much to the mace in the eyes, and taking awhile to act about it - and she should of just been polite and complied with the officer. She would problably of been let off, nobody i know has ever went to jail for curfew, maybe a ticket here and there but nothing extreme.

I believe the officer did the right thing. The girl was resisting and being retarted, not complying, and all that good stuff. If I got bit, I woulda problably done the same stuff, maybe without the punch though. All in all, she more than likely coulda gotten away with just complying and getting a ticket at most. She just needed to be smart, not retarted.

Originally posted by Boondock78

there is NOTHING to lose and everything to gain by making/encouraging the cops to train...how could people not want this? i don't get it.

Well Boondock, I will give you credit for offering some kind of direction or suggestion that is in the area of solutions rather than simply voicing opinions.

It is all valid and useful to discuss and openmindedly see what others think/feel about things.

It is also valid and useful to discuss ideas that may improve and move things in a direction that people aren't so divided. There is alot of gray area here and we are looking at it in black and white.

There are alot of standard training programs implemented by the police force I would have to believe by the way so many of them seem to act the same. Maybe a commitee should be formed in a serious way to look to end the recent rash of what many consider to be excessive force and the mentality that the suspect is already the enemy before a one on one situation even begins to take place between officer and citizen.

Originally posted by Optix
He could of just thrown her in the back of the car.

Originally posted by malcolmdelaney
Cuffing a juvenile who hasn't committed a violent crime shouldn't be considered acceptable behavior. The Cop went overbard right from the get go and created a bad situation.

I already explained how the Use of force Matrix works for the state of Florida, and that a person, regardless of age, has to be Tasered or Peppersprayed prior to an officer using physical force of any kind. Well there is another point here as well, an officer is required to place someone in handcuffs in order to transport them in the backseat of a police car.

Both of these things are laws, so if you have an issue with them you need to take them up with the government which passed them, not with the officer who followed them.


[edit on 10/6/2007 by defcon5]

reply to post by Slayer

Originally posted by Slayer
2) Before he hits her, he reaches up for his radio, as if he's going to radio for help, but quickly goes back to trying to cuff the girl. Why didn't he call for help?

On some radios the officer does not have to say anything to ask for help, he simply needs to hit a button on the microphone. I am not sure if that radio is equipped like that, but the ones carried by DOC officers most certainly are. Its built that way so the officer can get backup with minimum effort being used on his part.

Originally posted by Slayer
3) When the girl "bites" the officer, can we really be 100% sure she bit him? She did put her teeth on his gloved hand, but I didn't see her jaws try to clench down and chomp his hand.

It does not make a difference, just making a movement that causes the officer to think you took a bite at him is the same as actually doing it. You cannot punish an officer for getting his hand out of someone’s mouth before they take an actual bite, and it still escalates the situation. Same thing is true if you made a motion to spit on an officer, even if you missed or did not really spit.

Originally posted by Slayer
4) After the girl allegedly bites the officer, he yells something. Everyone so far has interpreted it has "Don't bite me!", but, could he have possibly said "Don't fight me"?

It makes no difference, because he did not use force beyond what was required to make the arrest. Again it’s a state law that a person is to be peppersprayed or Tasered before an officer has to apply physical force.

Originally posted by Slayer
5) After being punched in the face, the girl seems to stop struggling for about two seconds. Why couldn't the officer have used that time to fully restrain her, instead of pepper spraying her?

Because he was using his hand at that point to grab his pepperspray.

Originally posted by Slayer
6) What was this 15 year old girl doing out this late at night? Why was she resisting arrest so much, was she abusing substances?

There is most likely more to this story then what was posted on prisonplanet, and it would not shock me to find out that they have one side of that story.

Originally posted by Boondock78
actually battery by bodily fluid...
seems there is a law for everything these days

Considering that a large portion of the people that officers have to arrest, the habitual offenders, have some type of body fluid transmitted disease, can you say this is any less life threatening then using a gun? Hepatitis or HIV can kill someone and ruin their lives every bit as much as a bullet can, so why should the charge be less for that?

A 200+ pound officer has a 'small' (his word) girl physically pinned against his unit...she bites him...he strikes her in the face...and that's kosher? Wrong. She was already bodily subdued. You take her to the ground and cuff her. He reacted out of anger & frustration...unprofessional at best.

reply to post by OBE1


Incorrect, there are procedures in this state as to escalation of force, and he followed those procedures correctly.

Originally posted by defcon5

Again it’s a state law that a person is to be peppersprayed or Tasered before an officer has to apply physical force.

If this is true, then this officer was clearly acting in violation of the law. He could have cuffed her on the ground...the strike was unnecessary.

Originally posted by OBE1
If this is true, then this officer was clearly acting in violation of the law. He could have cuffed her on the ground...the strike was unnecessary.

In Florida an officer is allowed to use as much force as is required to make the arrest. It is a law here that he had to pepperspray her when she bit at him and he was going to have to begin to use an escalating level of physical force. There is nothing that says he has to take the person to the ground, that is personal preference. In this case he wanted to take care of the situation in view of the camera, and I would say that was a wise choice under the circumstances. The officer could have literally hit her in the Common peroneal nerve, drove her head into the hood of the car, twisted her arm, peppersprayed her, then cuffed her, and that is still a legal amount of force in this state.

Originally posted by defcon5

It is a law here that he had to pepperspray her when she bit at him and he was going to have to begin to use an escalating level of physical force.

But that's the point defcon, he escalated his level of force prior to using pepper-spray. She was pinned to the hood of his cruiser...not going anywhere. It was a reactionary strike...the officer was PO'd.

There is nothing that says he has to take the person to the ground, that is personal preference.

Effective procedure is proper procedure, and it always trumps 'personal preference'. The longer a situation is allowed to exist, the more dangerous it becomes for everyone concerned. If he had taken her to the ground & cuffed her as soon as she began to resist, instead of struggling with her arm on the hood, he never would have been bitten...she never would have been assaulted.

[edit on 7-10-2007 by OBE1]

"and we should give maps to the people in africa and iraq and uh, such, because poor people don't have maps in the US and uh and such"

Originally posted by enjoies05

Originally posted by dntwastetime
The power of the web has been a effective tool for demonstrating how our officers are abusing the position.

You're on PrisonPlanet. Do you think they are going to tell stories of how the Police stopped a shooting? How they helped someone like they do most of the time? I don't think so. All they show is the rare "bad cop" to turn people against them as a whole.

Thats there job though. We don't praise people for staying out of jail eihter...Thats what you are supposed to do...obey the law and respect others...I don't get credit for opening a door for some old lady or for not shooting somebody so why should the cops need credit when they alraedy make enough to provide a living for their family .
This # needs to be posted and it proves that the screening process if any is flawed with officers..They are letting some of the worst scum on this planet have power over law abiding citizens.....and then when they get into situations they can't handle they don't show respect or poise, they show how iggnorant they really are........these are the real criminals who belong behind bars.........but our world is corrupt...so yea

Also,......If you can't subdue a small girl and cuff her without extra support and without your own strength you are a disgrace to the police force and your country.......Thats why they put them through pysical training .....If you can't take on small girls then you are useless to our country and need to find a differnt job that suits your lack of physical and mental ability.....

This is sad. That cop's career is over and deservedly so.

I hope this girl sues and makes a million bucks. I hope the cop ends up a security guard.

That cop is incompetent.

You're on PrisonPlanet. Do you think they are going to tell stories of how the Police stopped a shooting? How they helped someone like they do most of the time? I don't think so. All they show is the rare "bad cop" to turn people against them as a whole.

Are you saying you don't think something like this should be shown to the public?

I still don't see the punch... is the punch supposed to be right after she bit him? You could pretty clearly see where she clamped down on his wrist, but I don't see the punch.

Regardless, if there is a punch, this is what everyone is bickering about? Punching is a VALID and NORMAL distraction method to gain control over someone resisting arrest.

First and foremost, the dumb little chow was RESISTING ARREST. It doesn't matter what she did before the officer decided to arrest her. She learned the hard way that you do not resist arrest. It was clear as day the officer was doing everything he could to not harm her. Everything that happened is her fault in entirety.

Normally I would say I hope she sues and goes into debt to cover the lawyer and court costs. But in this case there is no lawyer dumb enough to take this case, so as soon as the garbage spewing media finds some other idiot to freak out about, this one will be forgotten.

The punch was right after/while she was trying to bite him, he punched her to stop her and then (after trying to take it out for a while) sprayed her with pepper spray or whatever they have. It wasn't a punch out of a blue or anything, it was a valid way to prevent her from biting him.

I really hate PrisonPlanet for this spin. It's disgusting.

[edit on 7-10-2007 by Johnmike]