A Challenge For Non-Believers Of Christianity

Views I share as well. I guess the best sum up is "I don't want to be defined by my religion."

first off, i did not say I was brought up catholic. I said, IF I was brought up catholic, I would probably be an atheist by now. And I do beg to differ with you on catholics being christian. They go against almost everything Jesus taught. He said, "Call no earthly man, Father." He didn't mean your daddy, either. He meant as in place of 'The Father.' He was specific about NOT putting importance on His earthly family. And you have the catholics, worshipping and praying to His mother. They have specific prayers to the 'Saints." What's that all about? Jesus said, Pray, "Our Father." He said nothing about shouting 'Hail Marys' or counting rosary beads, or slinging Holy water on people, or lighting candles. So, if one more person tells me that catholics are following Jesus' teachings, I'll pull my hair out!!! They are not even encouraged to read the bible for themselves.

Let me stress a point here. Everyone is saying that I am trying to force my beliefs on them. Do you see a gun pointed to your head???? I asked if you would accept a challenge. It's a yes or no question. No need for ranting or raving, or getting your girdle in a knot. Just, yes or no, will do. Thank you.

Originally posted by janasstar
Let me stress a point here. Everyone is saying that I am trying to force my beliefs on them. Do you see a gun pointed to your head???? I asked if you would accept a challenge. It's a yes or no question. No need for ranting or raving, or getting your girdle in a knot. Just, yes or no, will do. Thank you.

everyone?
i haven't seen a single person saying that you're FORCING your beliefs on people.

your challenge is flawed. it ignores more than half of a book.

here's a challenge for you: prove to me that jesus was a historical figure.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
here's a challenge for you: prove to me that jesus was a historical figure.

Oh, give me a break!

You're saying that all the apostles made him up or something. The new testament is an historical account of his life.

You know, you can throw stones all you want but don't deny obvious truth because Dr. Jimjam from the God hater institute has done research and found that Jesus was actually Hamaram from the Jerusalem post office.

*Facedesk*

You really stay busy jumping around poking Christians with a stick, don't you?

I do however agree that you can't exclude the Old Testament when reading the Bible. It's there for a reason although I do realize that the OP was trying to make her point via the new test.

Originally posted by jbondo
Oh, give me a break!

You're saying that all the apostles made him up or something. The new testament is an historical account of his life.

Hmm, actually, its not is it. The Gospels were written years after his death (and you'll note I'm not denying his existence) and as such are probably subject to 'Chinese whispers'. On top of this there are many other accounts of Jesus' life that are not included in the New Testament. There are four published Gospels, however there are incomplete or unpublished gospels from Judas, Thomas, Peter, Mary and Bartholemew, possibly more. Ask yourself why these aren't included in the Bible?

How accurate would an account of your life be if it was based on what 4 people said about you, 50 or more years after your death, and at least 5 other peoples accounts were ignored?

The Bible, as I'm sure has been discussed here before, is a laughably poor piece of evidence for the existence of either God or Jesus.

I'm going to say this for about the zillionth time!!!!!!! ONLY, for the challenge, to stay out of the old testament. I've stated this over and over. I have nothing against the OT. It's obvious that non-believers don't understand it the way it's meant to be understood. I thought MAYBE, if they could grasp the NT first, and get hold of the love msg, they would see that they were reading it all wrong! Is that clear enough?? Do I need to put it in another language?

I have been challenged to prove that Jesus is a historical figure. Is the Encyclopedia Brittannica a credible book? I believe you'll find Him there. Even though the Jews did not accept Him as their Messiah, they do not deny His existence/ When you visit the Holy Land. All the places are there where some of Jesus' most famous landmarks were. See if you can find that much evidence dedicated to a myth.

Originally posted by janasstar
I have been challenged to prove that Jesus is a historical figure. Is the Encyclopedia Brittannica a credible book? I believe you'll find Him there.

a 100th hand source isn't considered a historical proof. i'd say if you gave me a first hand source dating to around 40 CE i'd accept it.

Even though the Jews did not accept Him as their Messiah, they do not deny His existence/ When you visit the Holy Land. All the places are there where some of Jesus' most famous landmarks were. See if you can find that much evidence dedicated to a myth.

the issue with that is that they mark modern jerusalem... which makes no sense. the city of jerusalem that existed in the first century CE is actually a few meters below the modern one...

Originally posted by jbondo

Oh, give me a break!

You're saying that all the apostles made him up or something. The new testament is an historical account of his life.

it's actually 4 accounts that contradict each other AND history. on the issue. hell, i'm not even acknowledging that the apostles existed. anyway, the gospels were written far too long after his death to be considered first hand sources.

You know, you can throw stones all you want but don't deny obvious truth because Dr. Jimjam from the God hater institute has done research and found that Jesus was actually Hamaram from the Jerusalem post office.

....
i'm not denying any OBVIOUS truth, i'm denying something that is only supported by books that are third party sources

show me a first hand source that mentions the man and i'll accept that he existed as a historical figure.

You really stay busy jumping around poking Christians with a stick, don't you?

no, i poke ignorance with a stick, this happens to be one for of it. i don't select christianity for more poking than it's due

I do however agree that you can't exclude the Old Testament when reading the Bible. It's there for a reason although I do realize that the OP was trying to make her point via the new test.

yeah, which is ironic. one of the most misogynistic books of all time being held up as amazing by a woman...

[edit on 8/14/07 by madnessinmysoul]

ACtually what i believe needs to happen is for you to start answering some peoples questions.

You see we have love in our hearts. And im sure the ones that do believe in god have love for god too. But telling us to love the same way and live the same way as the bible dictates us to is just wrong.

Just have a look at the resemblences between jesus and horus... ;-P

[edit on 14-8-2007 by DaRAGE]

Originally posted by janasstar
Let me stress a point here. Everyone is saying that I am trying to force my beliefs on them. Do you see a gun pointed to your head???? I asked if you would accept a challenge. It's a yes or no question. No need for ranting or raving, or getting your girdle in a knot. Just, yes or no, will do. Thank you.

Just poking my head in here again... you seem to be having a rough time of things.

I`d posit that your comments and the "challenge" is proselytizing. I put "challenge" in quotes, because I`m not entirely sure what the challenge is that you`re proposing.

Maybe you could have put it more simply: Read the New Testament as a story, while resisting the urge to put on your trekkie hat on and start pointing out all the plot inconsistencies. Just take it as a story and pay attention to the message, as opposed to a political statement.

Would that be more fitting?

If that`s the case, that`s a big challenge to lay at someone`s feet in the dog days of August.

I have a question for you OP

Christians believe that God created this particular universe as a free act: that is, God was free to not make this universe. but this comes with a set of difficulties, because we can ask why it was that God chose to make this universe, as opposed to a lifeless one, or one with maximum suffering. If the reply is 'it's unfathomable' then the chain of explanation peters out.

If the answer is that the choice was blind then again the element of design is lost, because if the selection was purely whimsical, then the universe is reduced to a divine plaything.

But if the answer is that the decision to make the universe was a profound and considered one which proceeded from God's nature, then one is prompted to ask about the source of this nature.

In other words who designed the designer? making God not god/designer/creator after all.. and thus any book/teaching/tale/fable/whisper related to it is mute as that aint really God..

you see the kicker to me is most wars in history can be ascribed to religion i guess your peace and love msg got lost along the way huh?

and don't give me the free will crap... if 'GOD' is forever then he knows the past the present and the future.. he must have forseen how we would tear ourselves apart and yet he is letting it happen , what type of benevolant creator would allow this ? its sick.

I Challenge you to watch this ..is your faith strong enough?



[edit on 14/8/07 by Quantum_Squirrel]

Thread Author

"Not every one who says to me " Lord Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but those that do the will of my Father"
Matthew 7:21

Enough said. He said it himself, didn't he?
"Love your neighbor as your self"
Matthew 22:36
(Oh, you will oppose and say we must love God of all our heart, but see God is our only witness) See?
That should leave room for most of us? Atheists, Buddhist, Hindus, Muslims and all the rest of us.

WIS

God forgive me. I set out to do a good thing. Before this post I believed that all people were ultimately good and just hadn't gotten the message the right way. I now see the error of my way. I caused a lot of it by my choice of words. I really did not mean that only non-believers had hate in their hearts. I should have posted it, that if you have any hate in your heart. I don't blame you for being offended at that. But several times throughout the post, I have explained this and apologized. But people are only seeing what they want to see.
you guys win. my challenge shouldn't have been offered. someone was right. it should have been an invitation. I thought it would be more exciting as a challenge. I admit it, I was wrong. Keep reading any part of the bible you wish, and finding all the hate you want in it. Because now, I know of a surety, that nothing I say or do, will change it. I really wish I could have shared the true Lord with you. It wasn't a bad thing. But I'm through intruding. Have a Happy!

Originally posted by plague
Well in order to be born again you must surrender to God. That means give up all attachments to the material world. Jesus taught this.
You cannot just walk around and talk of Jesus and God. You must show acts of faith and one of the greatest acts is renouncing this world and giving tour thoughts and body to god. So when you surrender you are showing god whats really in your heart.....

Well, this is where I have the most trouble.
I'm fine with alot of the New Testament. The basic theme of "Be Nice to People" is completely honourable and probably quite radical for it's time.

But this "surrender to God" stuff just doesn't work with me. It's nothings to do with all the technicalities of whether God exists or not. It's that requirement to be obsessed with the Creator. It just doesn't click with me. If there is a God, then cool, fine, perhaps we will meet one day. But at the moment, He isn't trying all that hard to contact me, and I don't have his email address, so I guess we just will live separately for now.

The only evidence I have that things like prayer even matter are from other people. Like the Author of this thread, and Priests, and parents. But they are just passing on what other people have told them. So *shrug* I can't accept their word on the subject with much authority.

I know some people intrinsically Feel It. They Feel God.
But I don't.
All that stuff about "Opening Your Heart To God" just doesn't work for me.
My brain isn't wired that way.

That's cool, go on about your life and be happy. I mean, if that's yor choice. You have to be careful what ya say here. Some people think you're telling them what to do. Please be happy.

[edit on 08/11/2007 by janasstar]

Originally posted by emjoi
.

I know some people intrinsically Feel It. They Feel God.
But I don't.
All that stuff about "Opening Your Heart To God" just doesn't work for me.
My brain isn't wired that way.

Im very sorry to hear this. The thing that I know most to be true is that God is like the sun hes always shining his light of love upon you but you have to be ready to recieve it. He favours no one above anyone. Imagine that your living under a rock (please dont take offence this is just an easier way to explain whta im saying) the sun never shines on you yet from under your rock you can see the light and you can see its shining on others. so you think ...the sun doesnt like me cuz it wont shine down on me but it is shining down you just cant see or feel it cuz of the rock, but if you remove the rock then you will feel the sun rays like the others. you my friend just need to find away to remove your rock. I myself am very lucky I have known god and felt his love since I was a little child. Religion was never pushed on me and by the time I was 13 I had my own ideas of who God was and about life in general. then i found they fit perfectly with the vedic ways....

You know, the worst thing I've done is; that I've set my Lord up to be mocked and crucified, all over again. For that, I am truly sorry. If everyone is willing, I'd like to bring this forum to an end.

It has brought none of the intended results. It has set off more hard feelings and arguments. And that's not what this was about. If I have offended anyone. Please accept my apology. That was not my intention.

i do hope that we can all find a way to live in peace and harmony, without stepping on each other's toes. I'm sorry for what misguided people have done in the name of Christianity. Let's please close this forum before any more harm is done to anyone.

[edit on 08/11/2007 by janasstar]

Jana, I guess you've got to realise that you've stepped into a vipers nest in this forum. You have the extremes in this place from both sides of the track, and so you were always going to get some extreme replies.

Your faith works well for you, so be happy with that. Don't let this place mess that up. All that would do is take away a part of what makes you a whole person.

Even though the Jews did not accept Him as their Messiah, they do not deny His existence/ When you visit the Holy Land. All the places are there where some of Jesus' most famous landmarks were. See if you can find that much evidence dedicated to a myth.

the issue with that is that they mark modern jerusalem... which makes no sense. the city of jerusalem that existed in the first century CE is actually a few meters below the modern one...

Originally posted by jbondo

Boy, can we nit-pick!

show me a first hand source that mentions the man and i'll accept that he existed as a historical figure. Text

You wouldn't accept it if Jesus Himself walked up and handed you the first hand source. Some people say, "Well, if I saw Jesus I would believe. Many people did see Jesus and didn't believe!

I do however agree that you can't exclude the Old Testament when reading the Bible. It's there for a reason although I do realize that the OP was trying to make her point via the new test.

yeah, which is ironic. one of the most misogynistic books of all time being held up as amazing by a woman...

What has me being a woman got to do with it? AND ONCE AGAIN, I NEVER, EVER SAID THAT THE OT WAS TO BE PERMANENTLY OMITTED!!!!

[edit on 8/14/07 by madnessinmysoul]