A Challenge For Non-Believers Of Christianity

Originally posted by win 52
I came to the conclusion about Saturday, by studying and asking guidance from God. I didn't seek the knowledge of a church to teach me what to believe.

The same voice that taught me the understanding of the scriptures, is the voice I take guidence from today. If that is somehow evil, I can't see it, because it is always for good or understanding.

Validation is when scripture and prayer are equal. Or, when church and scripture are equal. If prayer, scripture and church are all equal, you're on the right track

Originally posted by Hallberg Rassy
If we are judged how you live your life, then why the need to believe in Jesus?

This is a good question. The answer is because we don't follow that good spirit. Rather we turn to our own ways and make plenty of mistakes (sins). That judgement does not go easy for us in Revelation. If we had not accepted Christ's payment, then we're going to foot the bill.

God allows holiness and righteousness in heaven. This is a problem for us:

"But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God..."

Not good, however...

"and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." - Romans 3:21-24

Supposing I ran a bottled water company and I offer you a bottle of product to try. Before you take a drink I add, "oh by the way, there was a sewer break during this run and ten percent of that is sewer water". Would you still drink it? Why not? 90% is still good water? Because of that impurity, the whole bottle of water is contaminated.

Originally posted by Hallberg Rassy
and if jesus is the only way to heaven then all of humanity before his arrival on earth is damned?

Nope, back to Revelation 20 again.

Originally posted by Hallberg Rassy
and if jesus Inst the only way to heaven, then why the need for him in the first place.

makes no sense.

They're going to have to square with Jesus one way or another, whether in this life or at Revelation 20.

"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - John 4:16

This illustrates the concept well on why we would need Christ:

"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.
Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father." - John 10:1-18

Originally posted by IchiNiSan
Now, I do have a challenge to the creator and supporter of this thread, did any of you also read the Koran? Or other works of other major religions? Like Buddhism and Hinduism?

Since Jan asked me to answer for her, the answers are yes, yes, yes and yes. I've read the Quran, Bhagavhad Gita, Great Elk Speaks, Tao Te Ching, etc. More impressive to me though was the pastor I had (and also performed my wedding ceremony) who WAS previously Bhuddist, Hindu, etc. in his search for the truth.

Originally posted by IchiNiSan
After all, in my holy opinion, you should keep you mind open for other beliefs, and if you never read it before, I don't think someone should ever claim that his religion is THE religion.

Only if it IS the religion.

[edit on 24-8-2007 by saint4God]

Originally posted by janasstar
Because of recent health issues,

I'm sorry to hear -_-, please have jan in your thoughts and prayers as well.

Originally posted by janasstar
I have asked Saint4God to assume my responsibilties for this thread temporarily, but I am monitoring on the sidelines.

I'll do my best, though lately have been involved in other life activities so I haven't been as attentive as I have in the past.

Originally posted by janasstar
Do you think that Christians don't experience those feelings at times.

I've felt hate before, no doubt will again. I should not and practice not to a much as I can.

Originally posted by janasstar
But the damage is done

No damage done sister, this argument is 2,000 years old. The only thing that has changed are the names.

Originally posted by janasstar
and the mods have recently explained that they will not remove it, and their reasons why.

I agree they shouldn't.

Originally posted by janasstar
I meant it to be a good thing and it came out all wrong.

It is a good thing and didn't come out all wrong. Just because things happen unexpectedly does not mean they're wrong. Talking about this is a LOT better than keeping our own thoughts locked inside of us.

[edit on 24-8-2007 by saint4God]

Hey whirlwind, because I go through posts one at a time, I didn't realize I was toe-stepping. Seems you already had the same answers I'd posted before I did so sorry 'bout that...and...nice work friend.

reply to post by janasstar

Didn't the Word indicate that if we TRULY repent of a sin, (No matter what it is) that we would be forgiven, and it would be cast as far from Him as the east is from the west and cast into the sea of forgetfulness and NEVER remembered against us again?? Personally I never saw any exceptions there. Society seems to want to put them there.

Yes it does say that. He blots our sins out upon true repentance. The exceptions are murder and rape. It isn't that we can't be forgiven for those but not during this life. We must face God to ask for that forgiveness. I've searched through my Strong's Concordance and I can't find the scripture (it will probably pop into my head tonight and I'll be sure to let you know).

If I read this book correctly, a lot of things will be determined on judgement Day. The Word did say that God wasn't willing that any should perish, but that all should have everlasting life.........

He wants ALL of His children to be with Him and look what He does for us. I guess a good example of how hard our hearts can be would be His children during the Exodus. He parted the Red Sea, fed them for 40 years, clothed them, etc. etc. They saw this, lived it and still what did they do? Complained and made a golden calf. When He is said to be longsuffering, I wonder how long that will last?

reply to post by saint4God



My toes are just fine and don't feel the least bit stepped on.

It was wonderful to see it explained in the way you did.

Thank you......Whirlwind

reply to post by whirlwind


Yes, please do let me know on that. Because I have never seen those two sins singled out. The only sin I have ever seen singled out, is blasphemy (rejection).

reply to post by Fett Pinkus


Well to answer the answer the best i can is that back in the days of Noah the earth or more specifically the land was probably in one spot, its called something i just cant remember,
and that would make it easier to do such a thing as this and for all we know it may not have been from the wild some of the animals may have been brought there close enough for them to walk to him and the ark kinda like in captivity.

And the resone that the land moved is that something BIG happened to have all that water come out of nowhere and kill millions or hundreds of thousands of people like a natural disaster or worse we just don't know. Good thing to read to sort of get a picture of what happened is
Genesis ch.7 10-24 especially verse 11. so go read that and for my hypothosis believe what you like but it makes more sense.

reply to post by janasstar


You have hit upon the only unforgiveable sin. Only one of God's elect can commit that sin and only at the end of days.

Luke 12:10. And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

The Holy Spirit will speak through God's elect when they are delivered up before Satan. What is said will bring many to realize they have been worshipping Satan instead of Christ:

Luke 21:13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14.Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15.For I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

I'm sorry to hear you are not feeling well.......Whirlwind

reply to post by whirlwind


I'm very much up on the unforgivable sin, but the rest of it may have to wait. Because of my dizziness, I don't like to concentrate too hard. It makes it worse. But, I'd like to look further into the rest of your post at a later time. did you find the scr. ref on the murder and rape? Or am I asking the wrong person?

reply to post by janasstar

I'm very much up on the unforgivable sin, but the rest of it may have to wait. Because of my dizziness, I don't like to concentrate too hard. It makes it worse. But, I'd like to look further into the rest of your post at a later time. did you find the scr. ref on the murder and rape? Or am I asking the wrong person?

I'm sorry this took so long to be answered. I couldn't find the scripture but this morning heard a reference to it - not being forgiven for murder or rape while in the flesh.

1John 3:15 [i[Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

I don't believe that means there is no forgiveness for that person but he can't be automatically assured of it as others can that accept Christ and repent. He must wait and face God.

Rape carries the same penalty as murder but I can't find the scripture. Rape apparently goes by another name and I'm unable to find the reference........but I'll keep looking.


............Whirlwind